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Confirmation: Floating Ball of Doom Spotted (frame data)

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Lucas' Hexagons of Frames and Moveset data!

~Terms~
[collapse=Terms]Auto-cancel: The window of frames in which an Aerial will NOT recieve it's normal landing lag. Applies to all Aerials.

Base Knockback (BKB): The intial, static knockback of an attack. Characters always get knocked back by this amount regardless of damage.(In Hex)

Charge: The first frame an attack is able to be charged. Applies to Smashes and certain Special Attacks.

Damage: The amount of damage an attack (NOT stale) inflicts on the opponent. Measured in Damage Percent.

Earliest Jab Flow : The earliest frame that a jab can flow into the next. This is only used if the jab connects with something. Applies to Jabs only.

Earliest Jab Loop: The earliest frame that a jab can loop back to Jab 1. This is the frame used when you are holding down the "A" button and the Jab does not connect with anything. Applies to Jabs only.

Frame Advantage: This will be labeled as ADVANTAGE in the data below. This is how soon you can act in relation to your opponent after you hit their shield with some attack. This will usually be a negative number(i.e. they will be able to act sooner than you can). This is a very useful tool in determining which attacks are safe and which are not.

Frame Advantage Formula: The formula for Frame Advantage is: [Hit Frame] + [Shield Stun + Shield Hitlag] - [Duration + Hitlag], where the Duration is 1 frame less than the IASA Frame of an attack, and the Hit Frame used is the 1st frame the hitbox emerges. Keep this in mind, as hitting with a later portion of a given hitbox will produce a better Frame Advantage overall, naturally.

Helpless Frames: The frames where a character cannot perform any action until a certain requirement is met, usually touching the ground or grabbing the ledge.

Hit on: The frames an attack can hit your opponent. If an attack hits more than once, it will have multiple hitboxes, and will be noted as such.

Hitlag: These are the frames of an attack where both you and your opponent are "frozen." Hitlag only occurs if an attack successfully connects with something.

Hitlag Multiplier: This is a value the game uses to modify the hitlag of an attack. The default multiplier is "x1," which essentially keeps the hitlag to it's normal value. This value will only be listed if it is NOT "x1."

IASA: "Interuptable As Soon As" frame. This is the frame where you can interrupt the current action with another one.

Invincibility: The frames in which you are impervious to attacks. Applies to Dodges and actions From the Ledge.

Knockback Growth (KBG) : The value that determines how much the knockback scales with damage. This is the additional distance a target is knocked back proportional to the damage.(In Hex)

SDI Multiplier: Smash Directional Influence Multiplier. This is a value the game uses to modify how easy it is to SDI attacks. The default multiplier is "x1," which essentially keeps the "SDI-ability" to it's normal value. This value will only be listed if it is NOT "x1."

Shield Damage: A modifier that determines how much extra damage an attack does to a shield. For example, DK's Headbutt and Marth's Shield Breaker have very high Shield Damage modifiers.

Shield Hitlag: This is period of time your opponent is "frozen" when an attack hits their shield. This is usually the same amount of frames as the normal Hitlag of an attack.

Shield Stun: This is the period of time, immediately after Shield Hitlag, where your opponent is stuck in their shield(i.e. that cannot do anything). This is very important in calculating Frame Advantage.

Trajectory: The angle an attack sends your opponents upon connection, after the Hitlag. Measured in Degrees above zero, zero being the horizontal plane, measuring counterclockwise. If a trajectory is listed as - then it is relative to the hitboxes and position of hurboxes

Tripping Rate: The chance an attack has to trip an opponent. Attacks can only trip if they are sent into the ground with very low knockback (They don't get sent flying off of the ground). Measured in Percent.
[/collapse]

~The Attacks~

Jab1
Duration:
Animation Length: 30
IASA: 20
Start-Up: 1
Hit On: 2-5
Cool Down: 6-20

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 3/3/3
Direction: 20/60/80
BKB: 0/0/0
KBG: 64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -16
Advantage to Jab Flow: -6

~
Jab Specific:
Earliest Jab Flow: 7
Earliest Jab Loop: 18


Jab2
Duration:
Animation Length: 30
IASA: 20
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-6
Cool Down: 7-20

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 3/3/3
Direction: 20/60/80
BKB: 0/0/0
KBG: 64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -15
Advanatge to Jab Flow: -8

~
Jab Specific:
Earliest Jab Flow: 7

Jab3
Duration:
Animation Length: 35
IASA: 30
Start-Up: 1-5
Hit On: 6-9
Cool Down: 10-30

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 4/4/4
Direction: -/-/-
BKB: 3C/3C/3C
KBG: 50/50/50
SDI Mulitplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -22


Dash-Attack
Duration:
Animation Length: 50
IASA: 42
Start-Up: 1-16
Hit On: 17-22
Cool Down: 23-42

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 12/10
Direction: 75/75
BKB: 3C/3C
KBG: 4C/28
SDI Multiplier: 1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 13
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -26


F-tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 40
IASA: 23
Start-Up: 1-5
Hit On: 6-10
Cool Down: 11-23

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 11/11/9/9
Direction: -/-/-/-
BKB: C/10/14/14
KBG: 64/64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 5
Advantage: -11


D-tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 30
IASA: 14
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-5
Cool Down: 6-14

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 6/6/6
Direction: 0/0/0
BKB: 6/6/6
KBG: 16/16/16
SDI Mulitplier: .4/.4/.4
Shield Hit Lag: 2
Shield Stun: 5
Advantage: -3


U-tilt
Duration:
Animation Length: 47
IASA: 40
Start-Up: 1-3
Hit On: 4-7
Hit On: 7-9
Hit On: 9-18
Cool Down: 19-40

~
Hitbox 1:
Damage: 3/3
Direction: 120/120
BKB: 0/0
KBG: 64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1

~
Hitbox 2:
Damage: 8/8/8
Direction: 95/95/95
BKB: 28/28/28
KBG: 69/69/69
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1

~
Hitbox 3:
Damage: 4/4/4
Direction: 90/90/93
BKB: A/A/A
KBG: 64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -28


F-smash
Duration:
Animation Length: 62
IASA: 48
Start-Up: 1-13
Before Charge: 8
After Charge: 6
Hit On: 14-17
Cool Down: 18-48

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 15/15/15/15
Direction: -/-/-/-
BKB: 3C/37/32/2D
KBG: 58/58/58/58
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 11
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -28


U-smash
Duration
Animation Length: 100
IASA: None
Start Up: 1-27
Before Charge: 5
Invincibility: 1-5
After Charge: 23
Hit On:
- 28-29
- 30-32
- 33-38
- 38-43
- 43-48
- 48-53
Cool Down: 54-100

~
Hitbox 1:
Damage: 2/2
Direction: 110/110
BKB: 0/0
KBG: 5A/5A
SDI Multiplier: 1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 4
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -69

~
Hitbox 2:
Damage: 19
Direction: 95
BKB: 32
KBG: 55
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 18
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: -68

~
Hitbox 3:
Damage: 18
Direction: 95
BKB: 2D
KBG: 55
SDI Multiplier: 1

~
Hitbox 4:
Damage: 16
Direction: 95
BKB: 28
KBG: 55
SDI Multiplier: 1

~
Hitbox 5:
Damage: 14
Direction: 95
BKB: 23
KBG: 55
SDI Multiplier: 1

~
Hitbox 6:
Damage: 12
Direction: 95
BKB: 1E
KBG: 5A
SDI Multiplier: 1


D-Smash
Duration:
Animation Length: 65
IASA: None
Start-Up: 1-19
Before Charge: 6
After Charge: 14
Hit On:
- 20-22
- 29-31
- 33-35
Cool Down: 36-65

~
Hitbox 1:
Damage: 17
Direction: -
BKB: 28
KBG: 5A
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 17
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: -43
Connecting Advantage: -8

~
Hitbox 2:
Damage: 14
Direction: -
BKB: 1E
KBG: 5A
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 15
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: -30
Connecting Advantage: -9

~
Hitbox 3:
Damage: 11
Direction: -
BKB: 14
KBG: 5A
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 12
Shield Stun: 2
Advantage: -26


N-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 45
IASA: 40
Start-Up: 1-4
Hit On:
- 5-6
- 8-9
- 11-12
- 14-15
- 17-18
- 20-21
- 23-24
- 26-27
Cool Down: 28-40
Autocancel: 1-4
Autocancel: 28-∞
Landing Lag: 18

~
Hitbox 1-7:
Damage: 2
Direction: 105
BKB: 14
KBG: 46
SDI Multiplier: 1

~
Hitbox 8:
Damage: 3
Direction: -
BKB: 46
KBG: 8C
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 4
Shield Stun: 3
Advantage: -15
Auto-Cancel Advantage: 0


F-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 46
IASA: 42
Start-Up: 1-8
Hit On:
- 9-11
- 11-16
Cool Down: 17-42
Autocancel: 1-4
Autocancel: 32-∞
Landing Lag: 15

~
Hitbox 1:
Damage: 12/10/10
Direction: -/-/-
BKB: A/A/A
KBG: 64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 6
Advantage: -18
Autocancel Advantage: -9

~
Hitbox 2:
Damage: 8/8/8
Direction: -/-/-
BKB: 7/7/7
KBG: 64/64/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1


B-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 53
IASA: 40
Start-Up: 1-14
Hit On: 15-21
Cool Down: 22-40
Autocancel: 1-2
Autocancel: 39-∞
Landing Lag: 15

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 9/12/10/7
Direction: -/280/-/-
BKB: 1E/1E/1E/A
KBG: 50/5E/5E/3C
SDI Multiplier: 1/1/1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 13
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: -23
Autocancel Advantage: -22


U-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 46
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-4
Hit On: 5-10
Cool Down: 11-46
Autocancel: 1
Autocancel: 24-∞
Landing Lag: 12

~
Hitbox:
Damage: 13
Direction: 62
BKB: A
KBG: 64
SDI Multiplier: 1
Shield Hit Lag: 10
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: -40
Autocancel Advantage: -18


D-air
Duration:
Animation Length: 55
IASA: n/a
Start-Up: 1-3
Hit On:
- 4-7
-11-14
-19-22
-27-29
Cool Down: 30-55
Autocancel: 1-3
Autocancel: 35-∞
Landing Lag: 28

~
Hitbox 1-3:
Damage: 5/5
Direction: 90/270
BKB: 32/0
KBG: A/64
SDI Multiplier: 1/1

~
Hitbox 4:
Damage: 5/5
Direction: 270/-
BKB: A/A
KBG: 6E/82
SDI Multiplier: 1/1
Shield Hit Lag: 7
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: -28
Autocancel Advantage: -9


~Grabs~

Standing Grab
Animation Length: 70
Start-Up: 1-12
Grab On: 13
Cool Down: 14-70


Dash Grab
Animation Length: 80
Start-Up: 1-15
Grab On: 16
Cool Down: 17-80


Pivot Grab
Animation Length: 50
Start-Up: 1-14
Grab On: 15
Cool Down: 16-50


Pummel
Animation Length: 30
IASA Pummel: 12
Start-Up: 1-2
Hit On: 3-4
Cool Down: 5-12
Damage: 3


Throw Damages
F-throw: 10
B-throw: 10
U-throw: 10
D-throw: 7


~Dodges~

Sidestep
Duration:
Animation Length: 33
IASA: 26
Vulnerable Before: 1
Invinciblity: 2-21
Vulnerable After: 22-26


Roll
Duration:
Animation Length: 32
IASA: 33 (lol, poorly coded Sakurai, poorly coded)
Vulnerable Before: 1-3
Invinciblity: 4-20
Vulnerable After: 21-32


Air Dodge
Duration:
Animation Length: 49
IASA: n/a
Vulnerable Before: 1-3
Invinciblity: 4-30
Vulnerable After: 31-49


Credit for Frame Advantage goes to 3GOD

~Throw Data~

"Veril said:
DON'T BE LIKE LEAF! READ THIS SO YOU UNDERSTAND THE FORMULA POSTED
Lag on throw =[First actionable frame (ie, the frame a shield would first appear on) •w - Release frame •w]

VERY IMPORTANT NOTE: each of the values modified by weight must be rounded up in order to calculate lag. Merely multiplying base lag by weight mod will NOT always or even often give you the correct value. w=1 for a set value throw, or the characters weight if its ∂W.


Lucas
f-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 57 ----- lag = [53-23=30] ----- 10 dmg
b-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 57 ----- lag = [53-20=33] ---- 10 dmg
u-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 47 ----- lag = [55-25=30] ---- 10 dmg
d-throw (∂W): initial hitstun = 42 ----- lag = [50-41=9] ------ 7dmg
The anatomy of a throw is pretty much the same as it was in melee.

Hopefully this will help:

choice reaction time (frames) = the number of frames an alert and attentive player will able to react and respond to... whatever, in this case its recognizing the throw used and choosing how to DI vs. reading DI and following up. The typical choice reaction time is 15 frames. The upper limit is ~12 (pro-level reflexes).

ROF = release on frame. This value is important because it is the window in which the player being thrown can recognize the throw and choose to DI.

FAF = first actionable frame. Uh, fairly self-explanatory. The first iasa frame after a throw.

lag = frames between ROF and FAF. This is a double edged sword. It lowers the advantage and reduces the combo window, BUT it also represents the time in which the thrower can read DI and choose their response to combo.

advantage at 0 = Hitstun - lag when throwing a character at 0% damage. This is the combo window, probably the most important value. Its important to note that growth rates vary across the cast (highest for Jiggs, lower for FastFallers)

∂W = weight dependent throw. This means that the FAF and ROF are both modified by the character weight value. Many thanks to Magus for providing me with those. <3

lag = [FAF - ROF = base lag]. Lag is variable on ∂W throws. All Lucas's throws are weight dependent. If you want I can post charts.
Veril said:
These are all the weight modifiers for vBrawl. Hitstun is roughtly equivalent across the cast at 0%. Its not like that game has more than a handful of true combos... so if you were going to test any of his throws hitstun, d-throw is the one to go with.
[collapse=Weight Modifiers]
Bowser 1.2
DK 1.16
Snake 1.13
DDD 1.12
Zard 1.1
Ganon 1.09
Samus 1.08
Wario 1.07
Yoshi 1.07
Rob 1.06
Ike 1.05
CF 1.04
Link 1.04
Wolf 1.02
Ivy 1
Lucario 1
Mario 0.98
Luigi 0.97
sonic 0.95
Lucas 0.94
Ness 0.94
Pit 0.94
dK 0.93
IC 0.92
TL 0.92
Peach 0.9
Marth 0.87
Sheik 0.85
Zelda 0.85
Falco 0.82
Olimar 0.82
ZSS 0.81
Fox 0.8
MK 0.79
Pikachu 0.79
Kirby 0.78
GW 0.75
Squirt 0.75
JP 0.68
[/collapse]
~Jump Data~​

Jump Squat: 6
Short Hop Length: 30
SHFF Length: 23
Full Hop Length: 58


~D-Tilt Hit Advantage~​
Mario:
Code:
[FONT="Courier New"]0: -8
30: -7
50: -6
70: -5
90: -4
110: -3
130: -2
150: -1
170: 0
190: 1
200: 2[/FONT]
Bowser:
Code:
[FONT="Courier New"]0: -8
30: -7
50: -6
70: -5
90: -4
110: -3
130: -2
150: -2
170: -1
190: 0
200: 1
[/FONT]Jigglypuff:
Code:
0: -8
20: -7
40: -6
60: -5
80: -3
100: -2
120: -1
140: 0
160: 1
180: 2
200: 4
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
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http://www.youtube.com/v/lOtwomIykVE
[collapse="Jab1"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Jab2"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Jab3"][/collapse]
[collapse="Jab Flow"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Ftilt High"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Ftilt Low"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Ftilt Mid"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Dtilt"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Utilt"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Fsmash"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Dsmash"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Usmash"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Fair"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Bair"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Uair"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Dair"] [/collapse]
[collapse="Nair"] [/collapse]
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
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K guys I just want to show you a preview of it, so far I only have d-tilt done:

 

cloudenvy112

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Messages
78
Location
San Antonio
Dude, that's awesome. I knew Dtilt had range, but not that much. Any chance you can post the Usmash next? I want to see the normal and extended hitboxes.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Ok, but it takes a while to program, especially U-smash. (I'd also like to point out that the angling of the hitboxes actually affect trip rate, so this proves that you're more likely to trip if you tip it!)
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
@Lancestern: Sadly there is no way to make the bubbles transparent that I am aware of, however, you can easily compare the pictures to the actual attack on brawl.

@APC: Thanks. I'm not sure, but I might we might be the first board to have their own thread for it since it came out :)

I also was astounded by how much range d-tilt have, it's actually quite disjointed. (His foot is about in the second/middle bubble.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
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Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I totally didn't see the size coming. Dtilt is huge, for example.

Edit: forgot to mention, kudos rocket. this contribution is gold :p
 

HailCrest

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
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Location
in lucas' upsmash
How do you use .pac files? I have homebrew channel, stack smash (for balanced brawl) and a softmod on my wii. How do I like, patch it onto brawl?
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Set up your SD card so that way it has the directory of ?:/Private/Wii/App/RSBE/pf/fighter/lucas/fitlucas.pac
Then to activate it press down taunt in your match to see the hitboxes
 

HailCrest

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Messages
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Um, after I load Gecko OS and choose "Launch Game", it loads brawl. Then I go to the character select screen for a group brawl and the game crashes. Music still plays, but the screen is frozen and I have to go to the wii and switch it off using the power button there because somehow turning it off using the power button on my wiimote won't work.

...what's going on?
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
umm... maybe your SD card is corrupted or maybe I might have put a bad file on mediafire. Check your SD card and make sure that your PF and everything else in it is readable. If it is, then I'll put a new one up.
 

HailCrest

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Yeah everything's readable. I use it for my R4DS as well (it's a microSD put into an SD adapter) and I formatted it into FAT already. It works with everything else, so I guess it may be the file; has any other Lucas mains had any success with the pac file you have?
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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Messages
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Hmm... I thought that the newer games were able to use HDSD cards because they were made to be able to read newer cards, but Brawl was one of the first for the wii so they only allowed you to use SD, but I may be mistaken. I'd like some other Lucas mains to test this to see if my theory is correct.
 

~Pink Fresh~

Smash Master
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O_O Idek what that stuff means lol.

looool. Uair (front) looks like a Sun, and Usmash last hit looks like spirit bomb. too good.
 

HailCrest

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Well, I renamed the file to FitLucas04.pac and tried it with the Claus costume. It doesn't crash but the hitboxes don't show up either.

Gah. I'm gonna try on another microSD card, see whether it works...

If you take out the SD card while the brawl is going on, would the textures suddenly disappear or would they stay until you restart the wii? (I'm asking this because balanced brawl is on my other microSD and brawl would crash if I don't take out the SD card before stage select)
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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They load at the CSS when you pick the character, now one question, when does it freeze your wii? at the CSS?
 

HailCrest

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Thanks, now it works. You're a godsend, RPSI.

I'd like to see the hitbox for magnet. My friends say that it's only the white spot in the middle but I say it's the whole inner purple orb (minus the blue laser stuff outside). If possible (i.e. it won't make the .pac file too big and freeze people's screens), try PKT2 as well, the first and last hitboxes seem to be quite disjointed.

Couple of things I noticed:

Separate balls of light mean distinct spots. One orb may be the sweetspot, one ball may be the sour. It's never the case that one ball can both be sweet and sour. This means Bair's spiking hitbox, the middle one, is a little more lenient than just the tip of the foot.

Usmash is like Dsmash in that it has separate hits... It seems to be one whole hitbox, but Usmashing from one of the bottom pillars of Luigi's Mansion makes the attack much slower than Usmashing one of the higher pillars from below because each hitbox adds to the hitlag. The balls also mean that running into Lucas after the main hits have come out but while the hits are still coming out is quite safe, encouraging punishment...

Downward Ftlit may be useful for surprise hits from above on occasion lol

And are my eyes deceving me, or does dtilt really have the same range as fsmash?

Dair makes lucas look like a snowman
 

rPSIvysaur

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Ok, I'll try to work on a .pac that includes triple jab, pkt2 and magnet.

I actually didn't do up-b since it has like a thousand different structures in it, but oh well, it's worth it to see it.
 

rPSIvysaur

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I don't really have any video tools, I'll try to get someone to help me though... unless HailCrest can get the vids up.
 

HailCrest

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The Ike boards must be on a caffeine rush, then. o_o

Either that or they have more than one person working on this.

Actually, once we have bubbles of everything sorted out and done with, we can actually make frame data which is really accurate. Like what frames Usmash goes into which hitboxes, total hitlag of individual boxes, etc. Now that the hitboxes are not invisible to the eye anymore, it'll be much easier.

I would love to be able to do it myself (and the video as well) but I don't have a capture card. And being 14, I'm not thinking I'd be getting one any time soon.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Oh, I have frame perfect info with PSA, don't worry about that. I just didn't think that we actually needed new frame data. I'll get working on it ASAP
 

Galeon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
617
Location
Miami, Florida
When you say the bair sweetspot is in the middle, you talking about the center of the hitbox the picture shows or that entire hitbox in the picture (middle of the arc)?
 
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