Complete aura excel spreadsheet and general aura info.

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14_WnBYtIsd2ahjqVXdSki7_0BoEq_yAA/view?usp=sharing

Only missing Double Team. Will update as soon as I can.

-I cover all major hitboxes I can think of.
-To account for various damage changes, this is done in a controlled environment.
-To account for the short hop damage reduction, this is done with full hops ONLY.
-This is assuming even stock and 1v1. Done strictly for the competitive environment.
-Lucario's aura gain is pretty consistent for the most part every 10%.
-Some moves actually share the same aura growth and damage. Sourspot utilt and dtilt, uair and dair, strong hitbox dash attack and ftilt, etc.
-Smashes were done without the C stick so I could get the base aura damage more accurately. A and control stick were pressed and released instantly. These were done multiple times to ensure an accurate answer just like the rest of the spreadsheet.

This took about six or seven hours to do. I hope you appreciate it. Please share with fellow Luc mains or those who want to increase their matchup knowledge. Also if you notice ANY discrepancies in the damage, even by a decimal, please let me know with a screenshot and how you replicated it. I'll try to replicate it myself and update it.

Updated information:

Here is chaos_Leader chaos_Leader 's chart for aura gain as well.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kCt3uTNh3Gr_lD0bAHwu44-wCGdh0KWl/view

Also here are the results of his testing for aura caps and reductions.

I've gone through and thoroughly tested the effect of stock differences on Lucario's Aura, and I've observed some intriguing and hopefully helpful properties. I find it works for me to think of it in this way:

"Basement" / "Ground Floor" / "Attic"


In any given stock, Lucario's Aura scales linearly from a "Floor" (0% Damage = 1x Power) to a "Ceiling" (190% Damage = 2.45x Power).

"Ground Floor"
1.0x


When Stocks are even, Lucario's Aura is on the "Ground Floor" which produces the numbers listed on the Aura Chart.


"Attic"
1.2x and 1.4x


When Lucario is a Stock or behind, the base damage of all Lucario's moves increases by about 1.2x "Ground Floor" Aura, and scales up along the Aura Chart toward 190% respectively. Lucario's Aura is in the "Attic" in a sense. So any move listed on the Aura Chart can be multiplied again by about 1.2 to get the numbers for a single stock behind. However, the scale at one stock behind is cut off at around 170% Damage, the "Ceiling" is lower in the "Attic" if you're following the metaphor. If Lucario is hurt any further past 170% when one stock behind, Power is not increased. Bear in mind though, the moves still scale as if the linear progression continued to 190%, it's merely cut short at around 170%, and the scaling stops.

When Lucario is two or more stocks behind, the damage scaling for the second stock behind is about 1.4x "Ground Floor" Aura, and all moves seem to scale linearly toward 190% like other stocks. However, the "Ceiling" is reduced again to around 120% Damage on Lucario, and won't get any more powerful from there. Incidentally, the damage there is identical to the 170% Aura attack at one stock behind.

I tested further stocks behind, but it stops at two stocks behind.

So this means Lucario's absolute power "Ceiling" for any given move is equal to the 170% baseline damage listed on the chart, multiplied again by 1.2


"Basement"
0.9x and 0.8x


Naturally, a similar phenomena occurs as Lucario is further ahead in stocks. The multiplier to "Ground Floor" Aura is about 0.9x and 0.8x for one and two stocks ahead respectively. Conversely, rather than the Aura cap being cut off at the top, the absolute minimum Aura Bottoms Out instead, and can't effectively go any lower than certain Damage% along the chart. When testing for what the minimum was, I noticed Lucario's move Power didn't begin to increase until about 12.5% Damage for one stock ahead, and 25% Damage for two, and it continues along a linear scale up until it reaches its maximum 190% again.



There it is, I've worked pretty hard on this off and on all week. I hope it's helpful to those using or fighting against Lucario, so they'll have a more complete understanding of the Aura mechanics. I hope the above extrapolation can be pinned into the first post, maybe behind spoiler tags to make it a bit neater on the first post. I'll also keep my chart up to date, make any adjustments if further patches adjust the Aura. If I knew my calculations were absolutely precise and completely accurate, I might add further pages for Aura that reflect Stock ahead/behind. As it stands, I'm satisfied with the additional multiplier and cutoff points. Heck, if someone is feeling mathematically inclined, they might be able to extrapolate a sort of "Damage Formula" from all this.

For the record, My testing method was a stock vs. match. Damage% power was based on a fresh move in the stale cue. I tested using primarily two moves: Force Palm Command Grab and Full Charge Forward Smash Sweet Spot (larger numbers make calculations more accurate when I've only got one extra decimal place to work with). I recorded the damages done to the opponent at various Damage% to Lucario and at various Stock Differentials, and then compared the numbers to those on the Aura Damage Chart (which has been adjusted to reflect a fresh strike from the stale cue).
 
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#2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14_WnBYtIsd2ahjqVXdSki7_0BoEq_yAA/view?usp=sharing

Only missing Double Team. Will update as soon as I can.

-I cover all major hitboxes I can think of.
-To account for various damage changes, this is done in a controlled environment.
-To account for the short hop damage reduction, this is done with full hops ONLY.
-This is assuming even stock and 1v1. Done strictly for the competitive environment.
-Lucario's aura gain is pretty consistent for the most part every 10%.
-Some moves actually share the same aura growth and damage. Sourspot utilt and dtilt, uair and dair, strong hitbox dash attack and ftilt, etc.
-Smashes were done without the C stick so I could get the base aura damage more accurately. A and control stick were pressed and released instantly. These were done multiple times to ensure an accurate answer just like the rest of the spreadsheet.

This took about six or seven hours to do. I hope you appreciate it. Please like and share with fellow Luc mains or those who want to increase their matchup knowledge. Also if you notice ANY discrepancies in the damage, even by a decimal, please let me know with a screenshot and how you replicated it. I'll try to replicate it myself and update it.
Hah, nice, you beat me to it. Did you notice any increment change? Like in Smash 4 when Lucario hit 70% there was a new multiplier for calculating Aura for 71-190.
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#3
Um, honestly not sure. I’ll need to look at Smash 4 Lucario again. I haven’t looked at his aura growth since the early days of Smash 4 when you and I were testing Lucario. I didn’t really stick with the game for long.
 
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#4
I'm actually working on this very thing myself. A couple notes I'd like to make if that's alright:

I'd suggest re-testing the uncharged Smash attack damages, as I'm getting different numbers there. I've been doing my best to get the minimum input time and re doing attacks to get the lowest possible for an uncharged smash attack.

Crunching the numbers I have so far, Lucario's Damage% to Damage Output ratio is multiplicative, and increases linearly until it caps out at 190% at roughly 2.45 times the 0% equivalent attack.
So if any given attack's damage were graphed out, it would produce a straight line, increasing damage output steadily until max.
0% Aura = x1 Damage. 190% Aura = x2.45 Damage.

The format I'm testing is in training mode: fixed damage on, stale moves off.

I'm about halfway done with the spreadsheet data as of writing this. I still also need to test the Aura Boost/Penalty for when Lucario is a stock/score ahead or behind.
 
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Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#5
I'm actually working on this very thing myself. A couple notes I'd like to make if that's alright:

I'd suggest re-testing the uncharged Smash attack damages, as I'm getting different numbers there. I've been doing my best to get the minimum input time and re doing attacks to get the lowest possible for an uncharged smash attack.

Crunching the numbers I have so far, Lucario's Damage% to Damage Output ratio is multiplicative, and increases linearly until it caps out at 190% at roughly 2.45 times the 0% equivalent attack.
So if any given attack's damage were graphed out, it would produce a straight line, increasing damage output steadily until max.
0% Aura = x1 Damage. 190% Aura = x2.45 Damage.

The format I'm testing is in training mode: fixed damage on, stale moves off.

I'm about halfway done with the spreadsheet data as of writing this. I still also need to test the Aura Boost/Penalty for when Lucario is a stock/score ahead or behind.
Sure dude.

Regarding the smash attacks, I did these multiple times, and noticed small differences here and there because at times I would get slight charges in. This is why I used A plus the control stick. I can release that faster than the C stick by itself. I made sure to test no charges upwards of several times before making sure to apply it to the spreadsheet. What numbers are you getting?

Also yeah, you're completely correct. There's an ingame tip saying his aura caps at about 2.5x times the amount at 0%, but it seems to fall in line with the 2.45x you got. I made sure to test the cap during training. You're right that it caps at 190%. I used the same exact testing method so I could account for even a mere decimal in damage on Lucario, and get the most accurate results in the best controlled environment I could.

Now when it comes to the stock part, that's gonna take a really long time, but I would be willing to collaborate with you. We'd need to find some way to account for the right damage on Lucario, and how stocks affect his damage output.
 

Crucible

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#6
Really appreciate the work put into this. Random question though. Aura Sphere Charge jump cancelled into Usmash timing seems a bit more strict now. Is that due to just the universally faster jump squat?
 
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#7
Sure dude.

Now when it comes to the stock part, that's gonna take a really long time, but I would be willing to collaborate with you. We'd need to find some way to account for the right damage on Lucario, and how stocks affect his damage output.
I don't think its necessary to re-record every single attack for testing stock differences. Since the Aura progression is clearly linear with no apparent spikes or oddities, it should be enough to perhaps test a single move to get a complete data set there, see how the Aura damage % correlates at 1 stock ahead/behind, etc. It might not even be necessary to test the single move at 10% intervals, and a sparser set of data points may do the job just fine. Once it's clear exactly how stock differentials affect aura based on one move, the result should be broadly applicable to all other moves.

Really appreciate the work put into this. Random question though. Aura Sphere Charge jump cancelled into Usmash timing seems a bit more strict now. Is that due to just the universally faster jump squat?
Jump Cancelling from shield is no longer necessary for an Usmash from shield. You should be able to Usmash directly from shield without adding the jump. Give it a go!
 

Crucible

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#8
Jump Cancelling from shield is no longer necessary for an Usmash from shield. You should be able to Usmash directly from shield without adding the jump. Give it a go![/QUOTE]

Hmmm I tried that, didn’t work, but will give it another go today. Thanks!

Jump Cancelling from shield is no longer necessary for an Usmash from shield. You should be able to Usmash directly from shield without adding the jump. Give it a go![/QUOTE]

Update just tried and actually works awesome thank you!
 
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#9
Here it is, my Current Finished Aura Damage Chart.

I don't have any of the get-up attacks yet, though whether that'll be important or not could be a point of discussion.
Stock Differential's effect on Aura will be added soon, once I can get my practice partner to help out in a controlled vs match.

I hope this can soon be used to supplement a Full moveset breakdown with frame data and the like. Already while doing just this chart, I noticed a few intriguing quirks to some of Luario's moves.

Edit: The Chart posted here is outdated. More appropriately, it's only accurate inside Training Mode with Stale Moves Off, because there's a damage difference. I've since updated the chart to account for vs. mode conditions. Please disregard the old chart.

Update just tried and actually works awesome thank you!
No problem!
 
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Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
304
#10
Hmmm... so in comparison to MythTrainerInfinity's Smash 4 Aura Chart, seems like Luc not only got a buff to aura at 0% and low percents, but also to the high end of maxed aura which is still around 190% it seems.

I thought he was supposed to level off and reach lower damage levels at the high end, or have aura cap around 150% or so.
Maybe I need to see this info graphed to really compare....
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#11
Actually I’m gonna have to retract helping out with the aura findings. Kinda had enough of the game’s crap already. >>;

Good luck with your testing and all, but I’m not committed to this game. Just constantly frustrates the hell out of me. Sold it off.
 
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#12
Actually I’m gonna have to retract helping out with the aura findings. Kinda had enough of the game’s crap already. >>;

Good luck with your testing and all, but I’m not committed to this game. Just constantly frustrates the hell out of me. Sold it off.
I'm sorry to hear about that. It's a shame we'll be missing you.

Well, I feel kinda dumb right now. After a few minutes of extra testing and experimentation, I realized that the damage from Training Mode's Stale Moves Off setting doesn't correlate to actual vs mode conditions. (There's about a 1.05x discrepancy between Stale Off and a Fresh Strike in the stale que). Luckily, Stale Moves On in Training Mode is an exact match for vs mode 1v1 conditions.

So, with that in mind, I've gone through and completely redone the Aura Damage Chart to account for 1v1 vs. conditions.
The Damage% to Target listed in the chart is for a Fresh Strike in the stale cue. Naturally the damage output of each move drops off dramatically as the stale moves stack up. I might look into the stale move multiplier later and make a note of it for those interested. For now, my next goal is to see what effect Stock Differential has on Lucario's Aura: 1-2 stocks ahead and behind etc.
 
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Messages
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#13
I've gone through and thoroughly tested the effect of stock differences on Lucario's Aura, and I've observed some intriguing and hopefully helpful properties. I find it works for me to think of it in this way:

"Basement" / "Ground Floor" / "Attic"


In any given stock, Lucario's Aura scales linearly from a "Floor" (0% Damage = 1x Power) to a "Ceiling" (190% Damage = 2.45x Power).

"Ground Floor"
1.0x


When Stocks are even, Lucario's Aura is on the "Ground Floor" which produces the numbers listed on the Aura Chart.


"Attic"
1.2x and 1.4x


When Lucario is a Stock or behind, the base damage of all Lucario's moves increases by about 1.2x "Ground Floor" Aura, and scales up along the Aura Chart toward 190% respectively. Lucario's Aura is in the "Attic" in a sense. So any move listed on the Aura Chart can be multiplied again by about 1.2 to get the numbers for a single stock behind. However, the scale at one stock behind is cut off at around 170% Damage, the "Ceiling" is lower in the "Attic" if you're following the metaphor. If Lucario is hurt any further past 170% when one stock behind, Power is not increased. Bear in mind though, the moves still scale as if the linear progression continued to 190%, it's merely cut short at around 170%, and the scaling stops.

When Lucario is two or more stocks behind, the damage scaling for the second stock behind is about 1.4x "Ground Floor" Aura, and all moves seem to scale linearly toward 190% like other stocks. However, the "Ceiling" is reduced again to around 120% Damage on Lucario, and won't get any more powerful from there. Incidentally, the damage there is identical to the 170% Aura attack at one stock behind.

I tested further stocks behind, but it stops at two stocks behind.

So this means Lucario's absolute power "Ceiling" for any given move is equal to the 170% baseline damage listed on the chart, multiplied again by 1.2


"Basement"
0.9x and 0.8x


Naturally, a similar phenomena occurs as Lucario is further ahead in stocks. The multiplier to "Ground Floor" Aura is about 0.9x and 0.8x for one and two stocks ahead respectively. Conversely, rather than the Aura cap being cut off at the top, the absolute minimum Aura Bottoms Out instead, and can't effectively go any lower than certain Damage% along the chart. When testing for what the minimum was, I noticed Lucario's move Power didn't begin to increase until about 12.5% Damage for one stock ahead, and 25% Damage for two, and it continues along a linear scale up until it reaches its maximum 190% again.



There it is, I've worked pretty hard on this off and on all week. I hope it's helpful to those using or fighting against Lucario, so they'll have a more complete understanding of the Aura mechanics. I hope the above extrapolation can be pinned into the first post, maybe behind spoiler tags to make it a bit neater on the first post. I'll also keep my chart up to date, make any adjustments if further patches adjust the Aura. If I knew my calculations were absolutely precise and completely accurate, I might add further pages for Aura that reflect Stock ahead/behind. As it stands, I'm satisfied with the additional multiplier and cutoff points. Heck, if someone is feeling mathematically inclined, they might be able to extrapolate a sort of "Damage Formula" from all this.

For the record, My testing method was a stock vs. match. Damage% power was based on a fresh move in the stale cue. I tested using primarily two moves: Force Palm Command Grab and Full Charge Forward Smash Sweet Spot (larger numbers make calculations more accurate when I've only got one extra decimal place to work with). I recorded the damages done to the opponent at various Damage% to Lucario and at various Stock Differentials, and then compared the numbers to those on the Aura Damage Chart (which has been adjusted to reflect a fresh strike from the stale cue).
 
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Nysyr

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
288
#14
Jump Cancelling from shield is no longer necessary for an Usmash from shield. You should be able to Usmash directly from shield without adding the jump. Give it a go!
Hmmm I tried that, didn’t work, but will give it another go today. Thanks!

Jump Cancelling from shield is no longer necessary for an Usmash from shield. You should be able to Usmash directly from shield without adding the jump. Give it a go!

Update just tried and actually works awesome thank you!
I found the timing a bit tricky due to AS being able to be launched with A now, since you used to be able to press all the inputs in basically the same frame. You have to delay the smash a frame, and theres basically a 3 frame window for it to be as fast as possible.
 
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Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#15
I'm sorry to hear about that. It's a shame we'll be missing you.

Well, I feel kinda dumb right now. After a few minutes of extra testing and experimentation, I realized that the damage from Training Mode's Stale Moves Off setting doesn't correlate to actual vs mode conditions. (There's about a 1.05x discrepancy between Stale Off and a Fresh Strike in the stale que). Luckily, Stale Moves On in Training Mode is an exact match for vs mode 1v1 conditions.

So, with that in mind, I've gone through and completely redone the Aura Damage Chart to account for 1v1 vs. conditions.
The Damage% to Target listed in the chart is for a Fresh Strike in the stale cue. Naturally the damage output of each move drops off dramatically as the stale moves stack up. I might look into the stale move multiplier later and make a note of it for those interested. For now, my next goal is to see what effect Stock Differential has on Lucario's Aura: 1-2 stocks ahead and behind etc.
I might be back actually. I play a couple times a week with a buddy since he needs a practice partner. I might be willing to lab out more in the future.
 
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#16
I might be back actually. I play a couple times a week with a buddy since he needs a practice partner. I might be willing to lab out more in the future.
Cool!

(I don't mean to be a nosy nitpick, but uhh...)

That chart is kinda outdated and/or possibly misleading. I flubbed a bit in my labbing as explained in an earlier post.

Well, I feel kinda dumb right now. After a few minutes of extra testing and experimentation, I realized that the damage from Training Mode's Stale Moves Off setting doesn't correlate to actual vs mode conditions. (There's about a 1.05x discrepancy between Stale Off and a Fresh Strike in the stale que). Luckily, Stale Moves On in Training Mode is an exact match for vs mode 1v1 conditions.

So, with that in mind, I've gone through and completely redone the Aura Damage Chart to account for 1v1 vs. conditions.
The Damage% to Target listed in the chart is for a Fresh Strike in the stale cue. Naturally the damage output of each move drops off dramatically as the stale moves stack up. I might look into the stale move multiplier later and make a note of it for those interested. For now, my next goal is to see what effect Stock Differential has on Lucario's Aura: 1-2 stocks ahead and behind etc.

The new chart behind this link is accurate to vs. mode/stale moves off, assuming a completely fresh strike in the cue. If it's alright, I'd like to have the link in the main post corrected, or the differences in data due to Stale Moves On/Off explained.
 
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Zoa

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
768
#17
Cool!

(I don't mean to be a nosy nitpick, but uhh...)



That chart is kinda outdated and/or possibly misleading. I flubbed a bit in my labbing as explained in an earlier post.


The new chart behind this link is accurate to vs. mode/stale moves off, assuming a completely fresh strike in the cue. If it's alright, I'd like to have the link in the main post corrected, or the differences in data due to Stale Moves On/Off explained.
Sure thing. Will do.
 

Crucible

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#18
I found the timing a bit tricky due to AS being able to be launched with A now, since you used to be able to press all the inputs in basically the same frame. You have to delay the smash a frame, and theres basically a 3 frame window for it to be as fast as possible.
Yeah the timing was a bit tricky I agree but it’s one less button I had to press versus jump cancelling so I forced myself to get used to it and have already adjusted lol
 
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#19
Oh darnit, I have to update the Aura Chart once again. New Link Here.

Mostly it's just that I've since discovered/stumbled upon a new hitbox for Up B Extreme Speed: the "Bounce" hitbox as I've referred to it as. If Lucario performs Up B Extreme Speed and "Bonks," running headlong at or near 90 degrees to the ground or wall or other surface, a hitbox comes out, and Lucario Bounces a small distance. Has a lot of handy uses.

On a side note, I've also figured out why the Extreme Speed trajectory arc feels really weird, and now it'll hopefully be simply matter of practice and sloughing of old habits.

I'll go into more in-depth detail once I hash through the moveset breakdown of the main guide thread. For now, I'll probably just settle for putting up slightly dubious frame data for the time being, and updating it as new information comes in. I confess I've been putting in a ton of practice lately, and slouching a bit on updating the guide thread.
 
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