Competitve Smash vs Competitve 2D fighters. Discussion.

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I played street fighter and bushido blade before I ever saw smash. The only nintendo games I played was pokemon and like only 2 games and really to say that's why I main pichu is a terrible reason because I like pikachu better in pokemon games overall because of yellow. But I loved burning jigglypuffs so maybe.

well that same can go for rednecks I geuss. from what i've heard about japanese players they play more fighters but don't uber focus on one for years like some of us.

But what I like about SF is it's easier to focus and I think learn WTF i've been playing smash for years and I still can't do everything I need to I can SWD and JC shine and all kinds of junk fairly easily But I still stuggle with some tech skill like WD oos and bomb jump recovery. mostly learned the JC shine from after kills.

BUt yeah SF learn the ways to move the stick doesn't feel as hard not going to say that's as far as it goes or anything dumb it's just the tech skill doesn't feel so precise as say falco dittos.

 

[Daniel_the_Seraph]

Wait people play Fate Unlimited Codes?

 

[Big-Cat]

Now look at more traditional 2D fighters. Their systems are simpler, and much easier to understand. Now, complexity is good, make no mistake, but Smash's complexity often feels like inconsistency. Stale moves, 3 hitboxes per move, analog stick inputs, analog shielding (hardshielding, lightshielding, or in between produces different amounts of knockback and shieldstun), 3 phases of DI (SDI, ASDI, DI), and varied knockback based on percentage, weight and fall speed? So many variables to consider when figuring what will happen next, and in turn what you should do next. Inability to see wtf will happen next reflects bad design. The GAME ITSELF should be predictable. Unpredictability should come from your opponent's choices. I am sure the game is very predictable, it's design elegant, even, to Magus420 but the system is too cryptic for even your average hardcore gamer.

I found this confusing as well whenever I would read up on some of the stuff on the SmashWiki. Some things like knockback, analog inputs, weight, speed fall, and knockback based on percentage I wouldn't say to hard to understand. The last one would probably be something you learn over time and would be part of matchup data. But the 3 types of DI and the different types of shielding, IMO, make things more complicated then they should be. Especially with DI, I can only imagine how difficult it is to just guess how to extend your combos. This whole time, I thought DI was another take on 50/50 mixups. Now it seems like it's 25/25/25/25 or something smaller.

I will agree that trying to figure out what to do because of the system, instead of the player, isn't the pinnacle of game design. I can only imagine what it'd be like to play a mix-up character in a 2D fighter under these conditions.

Thanks Signia, you've just explained to me why this game is so great.

Never understanding the full workings of a game means the magic never wears off.

It can also make things very frustrating.

 

[omgwtfToph]

MvC2, get whooped

oh man but if you're getting whooped at mvc2 in japan then you're doing it wrong :D

 

[gghhh3]

oh man but if you're getting whooped at mvc2 in japan then you're doing it wrong :D

He was a fellow american, so its all good right?

 

[Signia]

Ever been to a melee tournament bro?
Honestly, at any given national you might find at most 1/4th of the people there in HS. And thats even if its 1/4th, probably would be a lot less.
Most melee players are 18+

In my experience the average age group for fighters is more than just 18+, it's more like 21+ in communities I've been a part of. At a Virtua Fighter gathering (SoCal VF will never die!), there were 7 people in total, including me (19), some younger guy (early 20s) and the rest were late 20s early 30s. You're not gonna see anything that in the smash community for some time

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

unless u smash with AOB and Eddie, in which case the average age of the room will automatically jump 10 years

 

[JPOBS]

there were 7 people in total

yea, cuz there was SEVEN people there.

as the average numbe rof people in attendence rises, then the probability of finding people over a larger age span increases. Surely you realize this?

 

[Theftz22]

Street Fighter is for ***s.
Blazblue is for azn ***s.
Vs fans are all black.
No one plays Virtua Fighter.
KoF is immensely popular in Mexico.
Melty fans are weeaboos.
Tekken is for clowns.
AH fans are ronery weeaboos that love their underground games almost as much as the lolis in them.

This is the only one that is not true. lol.

10urg

 

[Laijin]

In my experience the average age group for fighters is more than just 18+, it's more like 21+ in communities I've been a part of. At a Virtua Fighter gathering (SoCal VF will never die!), there were 7 people in total, including me (19), some younger guy (early 20s) and the rest were late 20s early 30s. You're not gonna see anything that in the smash community for some time

lol wut. 18+ and 21+.
cool. huge difference.

I have been in the guilty/blazblue community in FL and the average age was around 20.
MvC community in atlanta is like around 21.
Street Fighter 4 community in FL is just like Melee's community with a few older guys.

Doesn't look like that much of a difference to me.

 

[Big-Cat]

My Louisiana SF community consists of mostly of people that are 25+. There are a few college aged students, including myself, and one high school kid. I believe though that most of them were 3rd Strike and Marvel players.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Does age even matter?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I swear you walked right into this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhHgrrQGDpk

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i lol'd

 

[Big-Cat]

I swear you walked right into this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhHgrrQGDpk

I didn't even watch the whole video, but I watched the Part of Your World parody and I'm not sure if I like that or Part of MAH BOI more. It's really close.

 

[MarioMariox2]

The unpredicability in its game design is amazing. Traditional 2D fighters is like Chess. Smash is like Shogi. I think that analogy works, right?

 

[Iron Dragon]

I personally like traditional 2D fighters much much more.

I think I just started playing smash because I was pretty inspired by what my brother did and I still play because the traditional 2D fighter game I'd want to play a lot(MvC2)'s scene was and is pretty bad.

Hopefully I'll be able to leave smash for MvC3 when it comes out though >_>.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

When I play smash it feels like an analogue version of 2d fighters.

Instead of block high/low, you can block any part of your body and the opponent can call you on any part of your body if they were accurate enough.

Instead of automatic combos in the sense of get 1 hit and press your buttons that you practiced in training mode, you have a follow-up window during which time you can technically combo into anything that will get a hitbox out in time.

In 2Ds you have dash/backdash, jump, sometimes airdash and the classic walk for spacing. In melee there is dash dancing, wavedashing, foxtrotting, dashing, jumping and walking. The options are basically the same, but in melee it focuses on stage instead of isolating you to player relations.

tl;dr, I find the relationship between melee and 2D fighters to be equivalent to hearing a musician in person compared to hearing the recording. The message, notes, and all values are basically the same, but by necessity of the recording process the song is simplified. I enjoy 2D fighters, but I play melee because its a purer form of the same idea[l].

 

[MarioMariox2]

When I play smash it feels like an analogue version of 2d fighters.

Instead of block high/low, you can block any part of your body and the opponent can call you on any part of your body if they were accurate enough.

Instead of automatic combos in the sense of get 1 hit and press your buttons that you practiced in training mode, you have a follow-up window during which time you can technically combo into anything that will get a hitbox out in time.

In 2Ds you have dash/backdash, jump, sometimes airdash and the classic walk for spacing. In melee there is dash dancing, wavedashing, foxtrotting, dashing, jumping and walking. The options are basically the same, but in melee it focuses on stage instead of isolating you to player relations.

tl;dr, I find the relationship between melee and 2D fighters to be equivalent to hearing a musician in person compared to hearing the recording. The message, notes, and all values are basically the same, but by necessity of the recording process the song is simplified. I enjoy 2D fighters, but I play melee because its a purer form of the same idea[l].

I like the way you put things.