Competitive Viability

[Cherubas]

I believe Bowser Jr has a tool for every situation, the problem is that he's kind of a risk/reward character. If you make the wrong call you're looking at some punishment because a lot of his moves have ending lag. Because he lacks the speed, combos, or super armor of some of the other characters I don't think he'll ever be top ten on a tier list BUT I do think he's a viable competitive option. He's not easy, but he does have what it takes to win. He relies on a lot of mind games. I've had a great deal of success using him online simply by adapting to what my opponents do. It's like fighting a boss on Zelda, they typically fall into some kind of pattern and when they do it's up to you to pull the right trick out of your hat.

Contrary to some popular opinions, I think mechakoopas are great walking on their own. The enemy is either going to try to pick it up, jump it, roll past it, shield it, or in rare cases counter it and all of those can be punished with a kart, a grab, an aerial, or a cannonball depending on the situation. In my entire time playing Bj online and letting my mechakoopas run free I've been hit by a thrown mechakoopa exactly once. I don't think it's a big deal to leave them as stage hazards.

Ftilt is a pretty reliable move and I would prefer it to a dash attack in most situations, so unless I'm approaching with the kart I'll usually approach at walking speed, ready to ftilt if they charge at me, block if they use some projectile or something, or turn and ftilt behind me if they're roll-spammers.

Utilt beats a decent amount of aerials as long as you keep the enemy in front of and above you. I don't like the hitbox on it which has whiffed on opponents standing directly in front of me before, but if they're in that golden zone where it swipes at then it's a good move.

Dair doesn't seem as great to me as everyone else seems to think it is. It's not bad for some free damage on people trying to get back to the stage, and I do throw it out rarely (like once every 45 seconds rarely) in battle on the stage just to mix things up, but it's a really easy move to punish. I think people just go to it because they believe the combo potential outweighs the high chance that they'll be punished, same as the kart -> aerial combo. In both cases I disagree and use them sparingly.

The Usmash is so unforgiving with its hitbox that I only use it in three situations: 1. Out of a roll that puts me directly on top of someone. 2. When I'm certain I'm in the spot where someone is going to try to land. 3. Early to intercept a horizontal recovery that I know is going to very quickly go directly over where I'm at (such as against a lucario for example). In the case of 1 I'll usually Ftilt or Dtilt instead of Usmash. In the case of 2 there are a lot of Dairs that seem to beat Bj's Usmash so a shield grab, Utilt, Uair, Fsmash from a better position, or even an Up B waiting for them when they arrive are all better options. So that generally just leaves me using the Usmash in the case of 3. Characters that move past me really quick with their Up B like Lucario or Ike's Side B or someone, or characters who are dangerous to challenge horizontally with aerials during their Up B like Bowser or Donkey Kong (or probably Ike's dash again) I can hit freely with an intercepting Usmash, provided they're recovering in that specific route. Otherwise I don't use this move often.

Bj's grab is slow. Not Pac-Man slow (thank God) but still slow. It's not safe to throw out in the middle of you and your partner's 15-step roll dance unless you're doing it right immediately after they whiff a move or something. Even then an Ftilt will have more range and I think they come out faster. Bj gets some good mileage out of shield grabbing though. Shieldgrab -> back -> turn -> Fair -> Fair-> Up B back to stage, congratulations you just beat a Little Mac.

I don't think Bj is a good character for doing hectic rushdown combos and such. He can't come at someone relentlessly like Sheik or Sonic or something, but I do think that Bj has an answer for every situation if you know the matchup, know the movesets, and learn your opponent.

 

[NidoMay]

So SSB4 had an update today and according to the nintendo support site, part of it was adjustments to balance out the game some more.

So chances are characters may have different changes.

Now, when I did a test it seemed like his Fsmash worked as well in closer range now but I only messed around for a bit so I might be wrong. It might just be some sort of placebo effect but it seems overall shielding is better.

Basically now Jr feels a bit different but maybe some of the quite frankly much smarter people on the thread could take some time to scout for changes that might affect viability? 'Cause again, I'm probably wrong.

 

[dawgbowl]

I agree with him ending up around mid tier, maybe a bit higher as time wears on.

I know there has been a lot of love with the dsmash on here (at least, a few weeks ago) but I have had virtually no luck with it. It gets shielded, EVERY time out of their rolls. Is it really that slow? Is it more of a 'guess the roll' instead?

I probably abuse mecha koopas too much, I think I just work better under stage chaos.

Nothing is sweeter than cart -> hammer kills.

I agree the cannonball is under utilized, but the issue is most opponents that far away have better projectiles that are significantly faster. And you just can't use it at close. At a mid distance with them jumping in, seems to catch them well on landing.

His aerials do have the worst landing lag except Uair.

Ride or die, I love the gokart.

Overall, I would say he'll end up mid, but I expect him to end up with one or two awful match ups.

 

[Conda]

I cannot imagine a lot of those strats working at a tournament level. Keeping a mechkoopa on the field at all times is a bad idea as they are ridiculously easy for opponents to grab. A lot of this may work on For Glory but this thread is trying to focus on the way we should be playing bowser jr that will allow him to compete against the best players around. The ones who dont fall for tricks like "mechkoopa is offscreen, thus your opponent will forget about it."

Those are great tricks though, we just need to establish a less gimmicky and easily-counterable meta for bowser jr.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I cannot imagine a lot of those strats working at a tournament level. Keeping a mechkoopa on the field at all times is a bad idea as they are ridiculously easy for opponents to grab. A lot of this may work on For Glory but this thread is trying to focus on the way we should be playing bowser jr that will allow him to compete against the best players around. The ones who dont fall for tricks like "mechkoopa is offscreen, thus your opponent will forget about it."

Those are great tricks though, we just need to establish a less gimmicky and easily-counterable meta for bowser jr.

Which is why you typically release it behind you, or you chase your Mechakoopa to keep up pressure. Being afraid your opponent is going to grab your Mechakoopa so much that it keeps you from using it is silly. It's like ROB players not using the gyro because it can get caught in mid-air, or Diddy players being terrified their bananas will be used against them because it can be picked up.

And yeah, most the tips only really work in For Glory, due to the nature of opponents trying to learn you and the presence of input lag. That's the nature of things, but some of it can be adapted to high level play. The point is to force your opponent to make a choice, punish them for it, then do it all again. Most of my matches go by with only a single (or less) Mechakoopa pickup from my opponent, and most of them haven't played ROB or Diddy, so they have no idea what to do with it.

Heck, sometimes if you're lucky, put enough pressure on them to prevent them from throwing it at you and it'll blow up in their faces.

 

[HammerHappy]

Which is why you typically release it behind you, or you chase your Mechakoopa to keep up pressure. Being afraid your opponent is going to grab your Mechakoopa so much that it keeps you from using it is silly. It's like ROB players not using the gyro because it can get caught in mid-air, or Diddy players being terrified their bananas will be used against them because it can be picked up.

This, basically.

As I already said, if you're just handing your opponent ammo then yeah jump off the stage because all you're doing is sabotaging yourself. Like bananas, mechakoopas represent a presence on the stage that can't be ignored. You abuse that presence by adding your own. I think someone mentioned the edge guard effectiveness. What makes it so effective isn't just the mech, it's Bowser Jr. waiting in the wings to knock your teeth in at the first chance.

If anything is going to be abused about Jr it's the sour spots and lag on his Fsmash and Dsmash. Thank God his dash and other neutrals are so good.

 

[Conda]

Good points, great discussion. Ive personally had a lot of trouble with projectile characters like Link. To keep away rushdown and aggressive characters, I found I kind of have to play like Marth and be very careful of my spacing to use my fair and tilts while staying safe from them. But projectile characters cause big problems currently.

 

[PlasmaPuffball]

Yeah, I've had issues with ROB recently. I haven't had much ROB experience, so that could be it, but I found it really annoying to deal with his gyros and lasers. I've tried matching them with my own projectiles, but theirs always wins, and when mechakoopas run into gyros lying on the ground, they explode, so they don't really help. And even in the ending lag of deploying the mechakoopas, he just lasers me. Dthrow -> Uair is also a thing on Jr. from ROB, so gotta learn to vector upwards. I could be playing the matchup incorrectly from inexperience, and I've also always hated ROB too since Brawl, but I find it hard to get in towards him.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Good points, great discussion. Ive personally had a lot of trouble with projectile characters like Link. To keep away rushdown and aggressive characters, I found I kind of have to play like Marth and be very careful of my spacing to use my fair and tilts while staying safe from them. But projectile characters cause big problems currently.

Yeah. Ludwig is in that unfortunate middle grounds where he's mostly considered a projectile character, but he doesn't do it as well as actual projectile characters. Yet, he's still considered a close range character, but he doesn't do it as well as actual close range characters. He's a very Jack of all Trades kind of character. He has tools for just about everything you could possibly need.

Honestly, if he had a reflect and stronger throws, he'd be the perfect character in my opinion.

As far as fighting other projectile characters, most Link tend to spam boomerang, and from my experience the Mechakoopa goes under it. Most people who play Link as projectile heavy tend to get caught in the lag from bombs and arrows after a boomerang throw and get a face full of Mechakoopa for their trouble. If they insist on fighting at the other side of the stage, just play patiently and spot dodge their projectiles or jump. You can also drop Cannonballs on them from time to time.

Yeah, I've had issues with ROB recently.

I dread ROB anytime I face him. He's like Ludwig, but considerably better. Faster normals, great aerials, great gimp potential, hard to gimp in return, gyro hits hard and persists on the stage even when it misses. Laser does solid damage and can be difficult to avoid, especially when it's the smaller, faster beam. A lot of his kill moves are fast, have good range in most cases, and in the case of his up-air, he can kill at low percentages.

In comparison, Ludwig has to work harder for his kills, and that's a dangerous prospect. The longer a match drags on, the more chance they have of making a comeback.

 

[Cherubas]

I cannot imagine a lot of those strats working at a tournament level. Keeping a mechkoopa on the field at all times is a bad idea as they are ridiculously easy for opponents to grab. A lot of this may work on For Glory but this thread is trying to focus on the way we should be playing bowser jr that will allow him to compete against the best players around. The ones who dont fall for tricks like "mechkoopa is offscreen, thus your opponent will forget about it."

Those are great tricks though, we just need to establish a less gimmicky and easily-counterable meta for bowser jr.

So what you're saying is that you're working off of speculation, making your opinion as valid as anyone elses? Yeah, players can pick up mechakoopas, that's why you punish them when they do. Or when they throw it. Little Mac throwing a mechakoopa is less dangerous than Little Mac throwing a Fsmash. Players can roll behind your Fsmash, projectile you while you're in your kart, gimp your Up B, players CAN punish everything you ever do, so by your flawed logic we should not do anything. Don't even play the game cause it's possible for other characters to beat you sometimes. It's surprisingly condescending to see you saying "I assume my way is better than yours because it's better in my head. This thread is about focusing on what I think will work, not you offering suggestions of what consistently works for you."

No worries though, I'll take my thoughts elsewhere. Sorry for trying to contribute some insight to your thread that's based on experience rather than speculation. I promise it won't happen again.

 

[MikeyAM]

Sorry for trying to contribute some insight to your thread that's based on experience rather than speculation. I promise it won't happen again.

I don't think it was intended with malice. We're all trying to get better. Examining each others strategies for high level play and, at times, offering dissenting opinions will only serve to help us better understand the character.

At any rate, you're both correct. Using a mechakoopa on the stage without grabbing it or pressuring your opponent will, mostly, result in your opponent picking it up and throwing it in your face. Which is bad. That said, deploying mechakoopa directly to stage is fine provided that you're pressuring in concert with it, like HammerHappy mentioned above.

 

[HammerHappy]

I might start playing R.O.B religiously to look at the parallels. I like Bowser Jr better because he has a more fast and loose off stage and a versatile rush down he has with cart (also Koopas **** yeah) - but I feel like these two characters have things to teach each other.

I believe there's a video in the video thread (dur) that illustrates this pretty well. Perhaps only because Jr. is fresh, but my bet is that he has things to offer in comp play that R.O.B can't replicate.

I'm kinda interested in the throws if anyone wants to discuss. I know back throw can KO by itself on the extreme sides of the stage (at high percent obv) but as far as in stage throws go I trend towards forward or down to combo into.

As long as I'm being lazy can anyone tell me if the grab itself has a longer range than normal? It seriously feels like it should as an extend-o arm but I'm constantly missing to my frustration.

 

[MikeyAM]

I might start playing R.O.B religiously to look at the parallels. I like Bowser Jr better because he has a more fast and loose off stage and a versatile rush down he has with cart (also Koopas **** yeah) - but I feel like these two characters have things to teach each other.

I believe there's a video in the video thread (dur) that illustrates this pretty well. Perhaps only because Jr. is fresh, but my bet is that he has things to offer in comp play that R.O.B can't replicate.

I'm kinda interested in the throws if anyone wants to discuss. I know back throw can KO by itself on the extreme sides of the stage (at high percent obv) but as far as in stage throws go I trend towards forward or down to combo into.

Yup. I couldn't post the link (less than 10 posts lol), but Oracle (ROB main) switched to Bowser Jr. in grand finals of the Tourney Locator weekly. Jumpman's mario was doing work on his ROB, but Oracle did much better as Jr. It's interesting to watch from a character research perspective and it's just an awesome set too.

I'm in the same boat with throws. Directional throws to get people off stage, otherwise I tend to dthrow -- although I'm not getting much out of it, to be honest. I'm interested in uthrow since utilt and uair are so easy to use, but I keep forgetting to try it out.

 

[IReidYou]

Remember you can catch the mechs as well if they toss them at you lol. I usually try to have one out at all times if there's some space between me and the opponent. Tend to tone it down against people who can reflect them back though.

Was also seriously looking into Rob and didn't even notice the similarities until they were pointed out here haha. Fthrow is what I usually do for stage control or to set up mechs but gotta start tinkering with up throw as well

 

[Kushamo]

It isn't a complete list, but I made a rough list of the kill percents of Jr's moves (tested on Mario from the middle of FD)

////Smashes

Uncharged side: 105
Charged side: 65

Uncharged down: 115
Charged down: 75

Uncharged up: 115
Charged up: 80


////Specials

Abandon Ship: 155

Uncharg cannon: 320
Charged cannon: 130

Car (spinout): 150
Car (fast): 220
Car (slow): 245

Mechakoopa: 305
Mecha (thrown): 305


////Tilts

Up tilt: 225
Side tilt: 195
Down tilt: 215


////Aerials

Up air: 160
Forward air: 185
Back air: 150
Neutral air: 250

Hammer swing: 125


////Throws

Back throw: 200
Up throw: 210
Down throw: 250
Forward throw: 335

Outside of his smashes, hammer swing really is his only reliable option up until halfway past 100%, and even then his options stay fairly limited. I really want to see Junior as a great fighter, but from an objective view I think calling him high-mid tier is optimistic. He's super-fun to play as, but unless he has a safer lead-in to his powerful attacks I don't expect to see many high-level Juniors.

Other thoughts:
Fully charged cannon is surprisingly strong, punishable as it may be. The mechakoopa doesn't do any addition knockback when thrown, which I didn't expect to happen. His throws are abysmal, but this was already known. If you sneak in an u-air when the enemy is near the top it might kill around 115-135; I didn't test it very high in the air. His d-tilt still reigns supreme as a taunt.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

It isn't a complete list, but I made a rough list of the kill percents of Jr's moves (tested on Mario from the middle of FD)

Yeesh. I knew Ludwig had some really low killing power, but that's just abysmal. My guess is that his low killing power is to make up for the fact that he's tough to kill (he's pretty dang heavy considering) and he's got great recovery options.

At any rate, most of your kills are usually going to come from gimps anyway, so I don't think it's a huge deal. I'd say high-mid is probably a fair approximation of where he'll inevitably wind up landing.

 

[Eji1700]

Yeesh. I knew Ludwig had some really low killing power, but that's just abysmal. My guess is that his low killing power is to make up for the fact that he's tough to kill (he's pretty dang heavy considering) and he's got great recovery options.

At any rate, most of your kills are usually going to come from gimps anyway, so I don't think it's a huge deal. I'd say high-mid is probably a fair approximation of where he'll inevitably wind up landing.

It helps that almost his entire movelist is built to get them off stage. All his strings carry far, koopa throws to the edge, and as bad as his throws might be they do cover good horizontal distance.

I'd also say that spinout at 150 isn't bad seeing as how, again, I believe that his kart options will become like whiff punishes, with spinout being the KO reward for a good read at high %'s(move in, bait a smash/attack, side B at right spacing rather than air dodge/shield, punish with spin/jump combo as appropriate).


Other thing- maybe someone said this somewhere, but drill hitbox gets larger if you charge it.

To test pick male robin. get RIGHT next to him and do an uncharged fsmash. It will hit at first, but the last hit will miss. reset and do a charged one(full). whole thing will hit. Now do the smallest charge you can. Still seems to hit. I haven't had time to test how much this helps, but if you can do a minimal charge on all his problem characters, that helps a little with one of it's biggest weaknesses(yes you're trading one issue for another, but the minimum charge is VERY short, and a lot easier to deal with than "lol i hit and got punished for it").

Most critical thing-
Dtilt is trash. It's all about the crouch/neutral taunt because it's ****ing adorable.

 

[Kushamo]

At any rate, most of your kills are usually going to come from gimps anyway

I've heard that a lot, but I haven't really had much success trying to gimp as Junior. My enemies are always able to just go around my attacks consistently, is there just something I'm missing?

 

[dawgbowl]

I agree with R.O.B. being a difficult match up, I dread facing him with BJR. He's just the heaviest and projectile trading is never in our favor... if we even trade.

EDIT: I also find it interesting that a lot of (former or current) Ness/Lucas and Yoshi mains seem to be considering BJR as a main.

 

[Exegguter]

Some of y'all are too pessimistic about mechakoopas just because they're easy to pick up. Mechas are fine as they are because it takes your opponent's attention and makes your opponent chose in a situation. ''Do I pick it uo? Do I shield it? Do I jump? Damn he's coming at me with the car, screw this mecha im jumping. Oh no he canceled his car, what now?'' Thisnall in split seconds. It messes them up man, EVEN on high level playt hey still need to think.

Plus a bouncing one blocks alot of projectiles man really nice.

I believe jr. Will be low high tier. Some issues but deff not ''ass''. Some have to much expectations about a character. This is no mk brawl stuff; let a character have flaws...

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I've heard that a lot, but I haven't really had much success trying to gimp as Junior. My enemies are always able to just go around my attacks consistently, is there just something I'm missing?

Either chase them off the edge and knock them further away, drop a Mechakoopa on 'em, or drop your ride on their face. Those are Ludwig's best gimping tools. The Mechakoopa less so, but if their percentage is kinda low it's a better option. You can also d-air to great effect, there's some examples of that in some of the matches in the video thread.

 

[Conda]

Some of y'all are too pessimistic about mechakoopas just because they're easy to pick up. Mechas are fine as they are because it takes your opponent's attention and makes your opponent chose in a situation. ''Do I pick it uo? Do I shield it? Do I jump? Damn he's coming at me with the car, screw this mecha im jumping. Oh no he canceled his car, what now?'' Thisnall in split seconds. It messes them up man, EVEN on high level playt hey still need to think.

Plus a bouncing one blocks alot of projectiles man really nice.

I believe jr. Will be low high tier. Some issues but deff not ''***''. Some have to much expectations about a character. This is no mk brawl stuff; let a character have flaws...

I think the point is that the current top is quite polarizing when it comes to "what is their actual weakness", so determining how bJr can compete with them is important. Obviously he is a well designed character, but how he fares is still a mystery.

 

[Eji1700]

I also think that by virtue of having an item, and a somewhat complicated one at that, it's going to take awhile to really figure out the real potential of Jr. I'm no where near done figuring out all the stuff you can do with a koopa in hand, and the situations that lead to easy grabs and combo's to and from it.

 

[T-block]

Okay I have somewhat renewed faith in this character after playing yesterday (still not top 10 or anything, but perhaps higher than mid-tier).

Short hop air dodge seems quite useful... not sure if anyone else started doing it after seeing the Dodge Cancelling vid, but we don't actually need to aerial autocancel in order to land without lag. It's nice for an occasional approach or as a defensive option, since we can throw out a quick f-tilt or jab as we land.

 

[deepseadiva]

Mecha Koopa is their best move IMHO. Items, projectiles you can carry and act independently around, will also be useful. Especially a little robot that walks around and threatens opponents on its own. My prediction is that Jr's advanced gameplay will center around Mechakoopa and the car, and his standard aerial and ground moves. Jab, fork, tongue, and the canonball and glove aerials are an excellent ground to work with.

I believe Bowser Jr has a tool for every situation, the problem is that he's kind of a risk/reward character. If you make the wrong call you're looking at some punishment because a lot of his moves have ending lag. Because he lacks the speed, combos, or super armor of some of the other characters I don't think he'll ever be top ten on a tier list BUT I do think he's a viable competitive option. He's not easy, but he does have what it takes to win. He relies on a lot of mind games. I've had a great deal of success using him online simply by adapting to what my opponents do. It's like fighting a boss on Zelda, they typically fall into some kind of pattern and when they do it's up to you to pull the right trick out of your hat.

I just wanted to point out that this specific paragraph was pretty generic information that could apply to any character. Like @ Conda pointed out, we need to observe Jr's specifically powerful traits and abuse those. Relying on the predictability of the opponent only works at a certain level. Thankfully, like you mention @ Cherubas Koopaling's movepool is very expansive and they have lots of tools to work with. I'm very interested in learning what his "unfair" tactics are specifically - this character is so versatile there must be something there.

 

[HammerHappy]

I don't know if this counts but I find mechakoopas invaluable when I get knocked high into the air especially offstage.

I drop one in mid air then fall with it.

Anyone trying to meteor or otherwise arial has to get past the mechakoopa in front of me. I try to drop it so it lands on the very edge of the stage to hinder guarding.

 

[dawgbowl]

I agree with the statement that BJR seemingly has a tool for most, if not every situation. The only issue I often find a problem is actually finishing the opponent which I think we covered earlier. Fsmash and E. Hammer are high risk high reward, but seemingly the only early kill moves.

The eject button explosion, has anyone noticed an inconsistency on when it kills? Any confirmation on whether or not there are multiple hit boxes or a sweet spot on it? Maybe it was just the weight of the characters, its just felt really, really random in that it kills way early or not at all.

I see BJR being more like Diddy from Brawl. He started around mid, worked his way up, then dropped a little back to earth. I think we'll see some flashes of magic for BJR in tournaments.

Up-smash is usually my go-to kill option once I have their percents high enough. It's difficult to be patient with the E. Hammer, I often swing way to early and find myself regretting it.

I don't know if there is anything sweeter than eject -> explosion -> catch with E. Hammer mid-air for kill.
*spoilers* there isn't.

 

[Eji1700]

Things I kill with-

Usmash
Dsmash
off stage fair/bair
Fsmash
kart spinout

with some mixture of hammer/upB shenanigans from the edge.

 

[VileFC3S]

He's not easy, but he does have what it takes to win. He relies on a lot of mind games. I've had a great deal of success using him online simply by adapting to what my opponents do.

I cannot emphasize this enough as I strongly agree with this. It's characters like Bowser Jr with his very-rewarding-but-very-risky moveset. He has taught me so much to becoming more of a better player in the game overall with the basic fundamentals that most of us seem to overlook.

 

[Raider 88]

I feel like I kill with the kart spinout more than I should. At first I felt like it was because I wasn't playing very good opponents, but lately I think it's because 95% of the time I'm jumping out of my kart before I actually hit my opponent...so they aren't quite expecting the kart to actually hit them. They are expecting a mechakoopa while jumping away, or an aerial of some kind, or just a bait...because I love doing that sooo much. Jump out of the kart and see how they react, and possibly punish accordingly. The kart jumping mind games is what can potentially set you up for an opening for the kart spin KO later in the stock.

Gah, I love this character :D

 

[VileFC3S]

The mind bobbling from his edgeguarding tactics. The possibilities are endless with them!

The kart spinout is so addicting I can't blame you. Seriously, I've been doing quite a bit on the air where It's most of the time that leads to a bad scenario sometimes. Help me. Lol

 

[NidoMay]

I usually end up getting Cannonball kills more often that not. use the forward or back throw to get 'em off the edge first.
The Clown Cannon can be devastating to an offstage opponent, usually enough to kill outright or at least get them far enough that they can't recover.

I guess that could lead to a fakeout of its own. I notice a few players will use their recovery moves early if it means avoiding the cannons. So maybe set up a cannonball but fire it as soon as they hit a recovery move, then just catch them as they land and often can't attack.~

Basically they thrive on learning about opponents and then relentlessly punishing them.

 

[dawgbowl]

hmm, I didn't realize spinout was so effective at killing, I'll work that in to my arsenal tonight.

Also, I feel like you'll always win a match if you hit them with 3 consecutive clown cars... just because that could put anyone on tilt because of how obnoxious (and hilarious) it is.

 

[Raider 88]

The mind bobbling from his edgeguarding tactics. The possibilities are endless with them!

The kart spinout is so addicting I can't blame you. Seriously, I've been doing quite a bit on the air where It's most of the time that leads to a bad scenario sometimes. Help me. Lol

He has sooo many options offstage I got a Fox offstage last night and basically took him from like 45% to 109%before he ultimately got back on stage :-\ Fox's recovery is too good. BUT, you can use almost anything when an opponent is offstage, it's incredible!

 

[dawgbowl]

He has sooo many options offstage I got a Fox offstage last night and basically took him from like 45% to 109%before he ultimately got back on stage :-\ Fox's recovery is too good. BUT, you can use almost anything when an opponent is offstage, it's incredible!

So much this, it's very easy to rack up a ton of damage with them off stage before they get back on. Rare you'll gimp them or keep them off, but when they return they are prime for any smash attack/kill move. Between eject, cannonball, and dropping mecha koopas just off the edge (i'll usually full hop towards the edge so it just misses the stage), it's easy to get in a lot of hits once they are off.

 

[Starbound]

Definitely thinking Koopa Drift and Giant Mechakoopa are his best customs, and I think they'll be key to Jr and friends ascending the tier list.

Aerial Koopa Drift is a great approach tool. The move is insanely fast and the spin, from my experience, beats a lot of moves (Palutena's Super Speed is a very notable move that the spin beats, and Super Speed beats most of the moves in the game as is) so it's very safe. I've been able to do aerial spin out into jab on Battlefield from the start of the match and get free percent just like that.

Giant Mechakoopas are a great kill move. I've been able to kill with them earlier than Up Smash at times, and they're way easier to land than a smash attack.

 

[NidoMay]

I think maybe it'd be a good idea to sort out any particular counter strategies to Yoshi? This one seems especially nasty due to the down air racking up almost 40% on it's own. Some way to punish that?

 

[HammerHappy]

I think maybe it'd be a good idea to sort out any particular counter strategies to Yoshi? This one seems especially nasty due to the down air racking up almost 40% on it's own. Some way to punish that?

Beyond just shielding/rolling and doing something when Yoshi lands?

He's pretty immobile while doing that so up B into no car neutral air has a high chance to hit with either the car or the hammer.

Other than that get him off the stage and ruin his attempts at recovery.

 

[guedes the brawler]

Beyond just shielding/rolling and doing something when Yoshi lands?

He's pretty immobile while doing that so up B into no car neutral air has a high chance to hit with either the car or the hammer.

Other than that get him off the stage and ruin his attempts at recovery.

but doesn't yoshi have that neat super armor in his DJ?

 

[Meek Moths]

Not viable.