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the mix-up capabilities of approaching are endless tho, you can follow through with the cc or jump out and approach with d-air or mechakoopa and dash attack or mechakoopa cc follow through jump aerial I LOVE BJ
Thing is, those are all shieldable. It's the same with Sonic - shield and he can't do anything, since he can't cancel and grab instead of attack. Bowser Jr has much less speed/surprise, so landing those physical hits are going to be difficult on grounded opponents, morseo than with sonic.
...none of which apply THAT much pressure because your movement options after you jump are so limited.
I remember people being shocked at MK's speed and range from the get-go. We were very aware of sword mechanics in smash thanks to Marth and Roy. We understood the strength of disjointed non-hurtbox melee attacks, and once we saw MK's moveset he felt obviously broken right from the get-go. We said "he is SUPER LIGHT and has a HARD TIME KILLING, though, so he's not broken", but of course those things didn't matter because his offensiveness was weighted so unevenly anyways. His weaknesses weren't weaknesses compared to how strong his strengths were, and we caught on to that very quickly.
Agreed. It's nice when you get a hit, but that's often because less-skilled players think it's okay to roll when being hit by multi-hits - that's why you feel the dair sometimes pokes through a shielded opponent and is effective against shielded opponents. But it ain't!
Absolutely. People act like dair is a godsend but it has so much landing lag, if you miss it you'll be punished HARD. Not to mention your opponent can just shield dair if they see it coming. And the clown car is predictable, your opponent has ample time to react to it, and it leaves you with less options than your opponent. I love Ludwig and plan to main him for the forseeable future, but I feel that unless his meta advances beyond gimmicks that everyone will know how to deal with in a month, he's going to be left in the dust.
Neutral positions is what Clown Car is kind of useless in. That's the problem - it seems like a move that is supposed to let Bowser Jr gain an upper hand from neutral, but it really just does what it does for sonic - telegraphs that you are going to limit your options and get closer to your opponent.
Hopefully that is exactly what he is.
He's also one of the heaviest characters in the game. He is very punishable, but generally you'll have to rack on 10-20 more % on him to KO him compared to other characters. And gimping-wise, it's going to be tough as he can have a very unpredictable recovery and has options thanks to side B. He can also get a KO hammer hit after using up B, which makes knocking him during that stage of his recovery risky. As a Bowser Jr main, you just have to be sure to recover low so you sweetspot the ledge.
I believe the landing lag makes it punishable anyways (fair and bair shorthopped). I stick with nair for general damage-dealing, and use fair/bair when I want them off of the stage. Nair is VERY good in general - if Bowser Jr didn't have nair or dtilt, he'd be half the character. Those are for sure his BnB moves so far.
Yeah the clown kart->nair combo is an oldie that we felt may be awesome for bowser Jr a while ago, but honestly it's just a weaker spindash. Sonic has speed to pull it off, but we don't.
Just to clarify, you mean his hammer swing after up-b when you say "no car neutral".
I'm not ignoring the strong points of him at all; I've been playing and experimenting with bowser jr extensively. He has some really cool options and combo opportunities but from what I've seen he isn't extremely versatile and needs to be played with a very high skill level to make a place for himself competitively. He has two projectiles; A cannonball that can easily be avoided by most characters and has a lot of ending lag and a mechakoopa which is GREAT for zoning/stage control, but any competent opponent can pick it up and throw it right back at you, turning it into a nuisance for yourself instead of the enemy. Fair and bair can be auto-cancelled from a short hop with is great, gives him some more options. Dair is very risky and has a lot of ending lag if it misses or hits an opponent's shield. Uair is great for juggling but if you're not careful your opponent can counter it with an aerial of their own. All his tilts are great. F/Dtilt are great for poking, and U-tilt combos into itself and can lead to uair juggling IF your opponent doesn't vector properly. Clown car honestly isn't that great except for recovering IMO. Players unfamiliar with Jr will probably be intimidated by the car, but players who know what they're up against know that the car isn't so scary. Up-B is a gimmick-y move; Don't get me wrong I love it with a passion but honestly. If you up-B your opponent on stage and know which way they'll be sent flying, you can follow up that hit with his hammer if you have good reflexes which is a devastating combo, but it's a gimmick and if you do it often (By which I mean more than like twice a match tops) you'll just be put in a bad position when your opponent shields the explosion.
Mechakoopa is great for zoning/stage control, true. It's true that it can be picked up, but that's much harder to do if you pressure your opponent after you deploy it. Force the choice: if they pick it up they get hit with a tilt or dash attack. If not, they get hit with the item itself. This kind of pressure was integral to diddy kong gameplay in brawl as bananas and peanuts were catchable by anyone. Also, try to deploy mechakoopa facing the edge so you can immediately pick it up more often. The downside here seems avoidable enough to the point of being negligible.
So, it's an aerial. This is the situation when any character in the cast goes up in the air against any other character in the cast. It is true though, Uair comes out really fast and its knockback is ideal for chaining into more Uair.
Clown car is a great recovery tool, like you said. I also agree that, as a straight attack, it's predictable and underwhelming. However, it gives us a third jump which is useful in taking advantage of Jr.'s strong suit: his aerial game. It's also a really nice tool for mixing up your approach and defensive options. If you refrain from driving directly into the opponent and instead cancel into a jump it becomes much more useful.
This is the only area where I really disagree with you. I feel like Up-B is one of Jr.'s stronger moves. First of all, as a recovery tool, it has enough range to be reliable. It's also useful as an edgeguard tool. Firing it off as your opponent is coming off the ledge covers their normal get-up and jump off the ledge options -- making roll their only really safe option. You can also up-b out of clown car, which is another useful mix up. I agree that, overall, Up-B should be used sporadically, but I think calling it gimmick-y undersells it a bit.
Yes I do. Since he doesn't have to swing his hammer after his up B, I'm hoping "No Car Neutral Air" catches on because it's clearly defined and strokes my ego. It's a vicious edge guarding option as you can leave the car to explode on the ledge and then have your hammer ready to intercept a higher recovery angle.
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