Meta Competitive Smash Ruleset Discussion

[Pyr]

No. They're trying to prove a point and did a poor job at it.

 

[DanGR]

I get the "only one size/weight" thing, because setting up a new Mii takes quite a bit of time, and it's perfectly understandable that the TO would want to limit that. In fact, I might steal that´for my upcoming tournament. However, once you have that Mii set up, it takes 60 seconds at most to make a new moveset for that Mii. There's no reason to lock in those customs for the character. Granted, it's better than just not having Miis, but there's no reason not to allow free switching between 2122 and 1122 Brawler, just for example.

Just a followup: I was wrong about the rule. Apparently, we're allowed 1 size/weight throughout the tournament but can switch between customs at any point. Cool.

edit: It's also extended to Palutena.

 

[Ghostbone]

... Pokémon Trainer was banned in Brawl?

I guess I should have been even more outlandish.

 

[Dinoman96]

edit: It's also extended to Palutena.

It's really awfully generous for a tourney to let Palutena use her customs like that. Mii Fighters are one thing considering they can still use their stuff while customs are off, but Palutena requires for the Customs button to be on in order to use her moves.

Not complaining, of course. I wish she worked like the Mii Fighters in the first place.

 

[Ansou]

Just a followup: I was wrong about the rule. Apparently, we're allowed 1 size/weight throughout the tournament but can switch between customs at any point. Cool.

edit: It's also extended to Palutena.

Perhaps they could... You know... Allow... All custom specials? Maybe?

Oh well... It's hard to convince people and at least I should be happy for the Mii/Palutena mains...

 

[Yikarur]

logistics will alway be against customs.

 

[TK Wolf]

Sorry if this has been asked, but I've had trouble finding any sort of summary...
Is there a generally agreed on set of stages for doubles tourneys?

Right now I'd guess:
FD, Battlefield, Laylat, smashville, T&C, miiverse
Delfino, Wuhu, halberd, duck hunt,

Maybe?
DK 64, skyloft, castle siege, poke stadium 2

 

[epicnights]

Sorry if this has been asked, but I've had trouble finding any sort of summary...
Is there a generally agreed on set of stages for doubles tourneys?

Right now I'd guess:
FD, Battlefield, Laylat, smashville, T&C, miiverse
Delfino, Wuhu, halberd, duck hunt,

Maybe?
DK 64, skyloft, castle siege, poke stadium 2

Would you believe it's literally the exact same as the current stagelist but with Kongo jungle 64 added?

 

[TK Wolf]

Would you believe it's literally the exact same as the current stagelist but with Kongo jungle 64 added?

Sweet! Thanks for the info!

 

[T0MMY]

Just a followup: I was wrong about the rule. Apparently, we're allowed 1 size/weight throughout the tournament but can switch between customs at any point. Cool.

edit: It's also extended to Palutena.

What's the reason behind limiting a player on which character they can play (regarding how many Mii they can use)?
Let me see if I get this with an example: If I made a short/fat Mii and my friend made a tall/thin Mii I couldn't use his Mii even though it was already created and right there on the system?

I also see a potential issue turning Custom Fighters ON and then going and banning all the other custom character. Obviously you can see where that could go. I am guessing this potential issue came about because someone goofed and thought the Mii issue somehow was only logistical issue instead of a philosophical one and therefore extended to Palutena.
At this point I am very curious to know if there are any Palutena players who attend these events.

 

[DanGR]

What's the reason behind limiting a player on which character they can play (regarding how many Mii they can use)?
Let me see if I get this with an example: If I made a short/fat Mii and my friend made a tall/thin Mii I couldn't use his Mii even though it was already created and right there on the system?

I also see a potential issue turning Custom Fighters ON and then going and banning all the other custom character. Obviously you can see where that could go. I am guessing this potential issue came about because someone goofed and thought the Mii issue somehow was only logistical issue instead of a philosophical one and therefore extended to Palutena.
At this point I am very curious to know if there are any Palutena players who attend these events.

I could be wrong about some of the reasoning, as I'm not the TO, but I've talked to him plenty of times about these sorts of issues, so I know generally what he thinks. (I don't necessarily agree with the reasoning for a lot of this. I'm indifferent about some of these issues.)

We've been playing with customs on since the game's release. The only real problem we've run into is when someone shows up at the tournament without a 3ds. He's been practicing with the customs he uses on his own WiiU. Come time to play his tournament set, the WiiU he brought is occupied by other players, he doesn't have a 3ds, and everyone with a 3ds with all the customs unlocked (we have a few owned by players) is in a tournament set and can't be bothered to lend their 3ds away. Therefore, he can't use his customs, and he's at a disadvantage. That just sucks. We're experimenting with customs off for now. (but with Palutena's on, apparently)

For Mii size/weight, I think the TO wants to avoid scenarios where a player makes a new Mii for every match. That can be a big time sink if you're not fast about navigating the menus and creating the Mii. He runs 70-man WiiU tournaments in 3.5 hours. I imagine he wants to uphold that reputation. At the same time, he doesn't want to exclude different sizes of Miis, so I think his staff is going to go in before the tournament and make all the Miis that people specifically signed up for. In order to avoid one Mii player getting all his friends to sign up for different Mii sizes/weights so that one player can use several different sizes throughout the tournament (and create time issues for his staff making tons and tons of the different size Miis- all for one player), he's limited each player to 1 Mii size/weight. As a byproduct of that ruling (which our TO sees as favorable, but not part of the original reasoning for the rule, afaik) this also gives opponents an easier time adjusting to that player's preferred size/weight, so they can learn different combo percents, cooldowns of moves, etc.

I am guessing this potential issue came about because someone goofed and thought the Mii issue somehow was only logistical issue instead of a philosophical one and therefore extended to Palutena.

I think you're right about the Palutena reasoning. My understanding is that the TO thinks it's purely a logistical issue. Do you know of a good resource I can use to show the TO that explains the philosophical reasoning for banning Palutena's customs? I don't understand the issues on a deep enough level to explain it to him, myself, but I think he'd be open to changing it if he was provided with in depth reasoning. My understanding is limited to "We turn customs OFF or ON. With customs ON Palutena has access to hers. With customs OFF Palutena doesn't have access to hers, but Miis still have access to different size/weights and their different special moves."

At this point I am very curious to know if there are any Palutena players who attend these events.

We have no Palutena players around our area, atm.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I honestly can't understand what's so bad about turning Custom Fighters ON.
The rules would say you may only use a modified version of Palutena and everyone else's is banned.
It's not different from looking at the Stage Selection Screen and know for a fact 80% of them are banned as well.

 

[san.]

I honestly can't understand what's so bad about turning Custom Fighters ON.
It's not different from looking at the Stage Selection Screen and know for a fact 80% of them are banned as well.

The rules would say you may only use a modified version of Palutena and everyone else's is banned.

I believe you answered that yourself. You would have to explicitly ban and possibly monitor a lot more stuff.

 

[Ulevo]

If the only viable argument against customs concerning logistics is accessability, there is no reason Mii Fighters and Palutena should be denied from using theirs. This nonsense about whether or not an option is toggled one way or another is entirely missing the point.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I believe you answered that yourself. You would have to explicitly ban and possibly monitor a lot more stuff.

The thing is that it's not really easy to sneak a custom set into a game, specially considering most Wii U's were not equipped with them.
Optionally, just to be sure, Customs can only be toggled ON if someone is pretending to use Palutena, and if they are on, any player can ask to double check the selection of the default set. Never too many precautions, specially the ones I listed which only would take like 3 seconds.


EDIT: Also, I forgot to say it, but might want to avoid using the word "ban".
There are other ways to enforce the rule without making it sound restrictive.

 

[san.]

The thing is that it's not really easy to sneak a custom set into a game, specially considering most Wii U's were not equipped with them.
Optionally, just to be sure, Customs can only be toggled ON if someone is pretending to use Palutena, and if they are on, any player can ask to double check the selection of the default set. Never too many precautions, specially the ones I listed which only would take like 3 seconds.

A player's not going to sneak it on since the other player is there, but both players may be ignorant of the rules and what's allowed. Still not much of a big deal, which is a reason why I put 'possibly'.

 

[ぱみゅ]

So I said "Screw it!" and I'll be trying this during my tournament next week.

Palutena Clause:
-Any Mii size and Special Combination is allowed as long as they don't have any equipment.
-Custom Fighter may be toggled to ON if Palutena is going to be used. Any combination of Special Moves on Palutena is allowed as long as they don't have any Equipment. Other characters are to use their Default Set. Any player can ask to double check on the opponent's Set selection.
-A Custom Set may only be created or transferred prior to the set, these can not be made between games.

Stages:
1- Battlefield/Miiverse
2- Final Destination/Ω
3- Halberd
4- Lylat Cruise
5- Castle Siege
6- Town and City
7- Smasville
8- Wuhu Island
9- Duckhunt

It's basically EVO's list except I swapped Delfino for Wuhu (which I personally consider is way better, and I have seen Wuhu being picked before), and I didn't use Dreamland because not every set here will have it.
2 stage bans, once per player (they may only ban stages once).


So far players don't seem to have a problem with this ruleset.

 

[T0MMY]

For Mii size/weight, I think the TO wants to avoid scenarios where a player makes a new Mii for every match. That can be a big time sink if you're not fast about navigating the menus and creating the Mii.

If that's the case then it's more feasible to allot a set amount of time (like a 5-min grace period) to play the match - this would include putting in your name/controls as well as Mii. After 5 minutes, a referee may be called over to see the immediate and reasonable start of a match, any unnecessary stalling could result in a DQ. DQ's result in a faster run tournament, and if they do not get DQ'd then they are starting their match sooner.

As a byproduct of that ruling (which our TO sees as favorable, but not part of the original reasoning for the rule, afaik) this also gives opponents an easier time adjusting to that player's preferred size/weight, so they can learn different combo percents, cooldowns of moves, etc.

I don't think it's the TO's job to try to help players win matches with out-of-game rules. That actually seems like an outright violation of competitive principles.

I think you're right about the Palutena reasoning. My understanding is that the TO thinks it's purely a logistical issue. Do you know of a good resource I can use to show the TO that explains the philosophical reasoning for banning Palutena's customs?

I should have everything you'd be looking for in my guide "Competitive Philosophy for Super Smash Bros." found in the guide section of this site.
There is no banning of Palutena's customs competitively, only stating if the Custom Fighters will be turned ON or OFF. If it causes more issues than is worth then I'd say keep it off, and if all the attendees want then it can be turned ON.

I don't understand the issues on a deep enough level to explain it to him, myself, but I think he'd be open to changing it if he was provided with in depth reasoning. My understanding is limited to "We turn customs OFF or ON. With customs ON Palutena has access to hers. With customs OFF Palutena doesn't have access to hers, but Miis still have access to different size/weights and their different special moves."

It's really just pointing out the obvious. The game lets Mii play with Custom Fighters OFF no matter how much we'd like to keep other people from having fun playing the game ;^D

We have no Palutena players around our area, atm.

Kind of silly trying to come up with all these rules when it doesn't even matter. In a Custom Fighter OFF tournament just turn it off until a player wants to play custom Palutena. At that point see if there's any issue with the attendees and turn it on whenever anyone wants to try her out. Chances are it won't even come into play, so no need for fuss.
Probably same goes with the Mii, there's very few people who play them. But preventing people from playing because of arbitrary rules doesn't make sense.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Ruleset for my major is out.

Palu customs, all miis, Halberd, Peach's Castle, Wuhu, Delfino, CS, and 9 starters (don't have an even number).

 

[darkprizm47]

SOrry if I'm bringing this up in the wrong section/way or if many others have been asking this but are the newest DLC stages added recently legal? I'm pretty sure they aren't though as mario maker seems fishy and the ship has a walkoff and some hazards but IDK.

 

[ぱみゅ]

The most widely accepted DLC stage is Dreamland.
Suzaku Castle and Mario Maker will never be because of their walkoffs and very high chances of getting a bad layout, respectively.
There are certain instances for defending the legality of Peach's Castle and the Pirate Ship, but community is pretty stubborn. I really appreciate those who take the risk.

 

[wizrad]

You're forgetting about Hyrule Castle 64, a recreation of the second most neutral stage in the original Super Smash Bros.!

... which we should not use competitively because, unlike in SSB, we have plenty of other choices that don't have hazards.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Nor a prominent techable area. Thank you for the completion. Not having a Wii U sure makes me forget stuff.

 

[T0MMY]

You're forgetting about Hyrule Castle 64, a recreation of the second most neutral stage in the original Super Smash Bros.!

... which we should not use competitively because, unlike in SSB, we have plenty of other choices that don't have hazards.

Second most neutral was Congo Jungle or Peach's Castle. Hyrule has been banned.
Even so, in a game where only one stage was competitively viable, being 2nd best isn't anything to jump aboard on blindly.

 

[iVoltage]

Can somebody explain to me why we are still running two stocks? To me three seems to be more than fair when brawl, a game with a slower pace is running three. Thanks

 

[Yikarur]

Europe plays 3-stocks almost everywhere with no problems.

 

[wizrad]

We only use two stock because we use two stock. Also, Meleetists would complain even more about best of three matches taking three minutes longer, and TOs do nothing to prevent this bullying from affecting the scene. People still think Smash 4 is slower than Brawl because one can live to higher percents. Yes, that is slower. But the neutral, combo game, and reward for aggressiveness all make the game overall considerably faster. In fact, I'd say we're about on par with Smash 64.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Brawl's ruleset should not impact this game.
Then again, this game can be played both ways pretty smoothly.

 

[dav3yb]

The most widely accepted DLC stage is Dreamland.
Suzaku Castle and Mario Maker will never be because of their walkoffs and very high chances of getting a bad layout, respectively.
There are certain instances for defending the legality of Peach's Castle and the Pirate Ship, but community is pretty stubborn. I really appreciate those who take the risk.

After asking a few of the players at our recent tournament, more people had issues with Castle Siege over Peaches Castle. Most seemed to think peaches castle was ok.

 

[19_]

Europe plays 3-stocks almost everywhere with no problems.

I would not be surprised If three stock becomes standard. Anthers ladder STILL runs 3 stocks and Even many of the top players are up for a three stock meta, but between NA TOs and stream monsters I don't see it happening yet.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'm just publishing the Long Dong Ontario ruleset, which will be used starting November:

Starters: BF, SV, FD, T&C, Lylat
CPs: DH, Delfino, Seige, Halberd, DL, Miiverse*, Omegas**
*BF banned means Miiverse banned and viceversa
**FD banned means Omegas banned and viceversa

As much as I want to include Skyloft, Wuhu, DK64, PS2, stages have been unpopular and when chosen have dragged on matches in 1v1s, creating some logistical problems. That said, they seem to work better in 2v2s, and so I have posted a poll to the fb group on using them (or at least one of them) in 2v2.

A lot of Ontario in general is against Customs on, but that said we are going to experiment having Miis with all movesets allowed. Mii selection will be limited to the default guests, however, due to logistical issues (once again).

 

[T0MMY]

I'm just publishing the Long Dong Ontario ruleset, which will be used starting November:

Starters: BF, SV, FD, T&C, Lylat
CPs: DH, Delfino, Seige, Halberd, DL

As much as I want to include Skyloft, Wuhu, DK64, PS2, stages have been unpopular and when chosen have dragged on matches in 1v1s, creating some logistical problems. That said, they seem to work better in 2v2s, and so I have posted a poll to the fb group on using them (or at least one of them) in 2v2.

A lot of Ontario in general is against Customs on, but that said we are going to experiment having Miis with all movesets allowed. Mii selection will be limited to the default guests, however, due to logistical issues (once again).

Other than those unpopular Stages which were mentioned, why was Halberd not excluded from the CP list? I am also wondering why there is Delfino and Castle Seige, but no Duck Hunt or Miiverse? Dreamland is on the CP list which is to say it is very similar to BF in design but has some random wind in it, and Miiverse is even more similar to Battlefield (cosmetics aside, I am currently unaware of any difference of the two).

I like seeing the Mii fighters being allowed to be played, but I'd like to know what logistical problems there are that restrict them to the Guest Mii only.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Other than those unpopular Stages which were mentioned, why was Halberd not excluded from the CP list? I am also wondering why there is Delfino and Castle Seige, but no Duck Hunt or Miiverse? Dreamland is on the CP list which is to say it is very similar to BF in design but has some random wind in it, and Miiverse is even more similar to Battlefield (cosmetics aside, I am currently unaware of any difference of the two).

I like seeing the Mii fighters being allowed to be played, but I'd like to know what logistical problems there are that restrict them to the Guest Mii only.

Halberd was originally a stage I wanted to exclude, but I was met with several complaints when I tried cutting it. Same thing happened with Seige, another stage I wanted to remove from the cp list and only have the three cps (Duck Hunt, Delfino, Dreamland). I eventually came to an agreement that we'd leave them for now, but would be removed if they were not chosen regularly.

Duck Hunt is included as a cp (DH). Miiverse, I forgot to include, oops!
I'm unsure about handling BF + Miiverse as the same stage, for now I edited the post to demonstrate both being used as such (BF banned means Miiverse banned and viceversa), but the bottom of the stage does affect things like stage spikes and recoveries that hug the wall, for example: Fox won't benefit from the bottom of Miiverse with his recovery as much as he would from BF. It's a rare situation though, so for now I'll leave Miiverse + BF clause.

It's either Lylat on starter or DL on starter. We chose Lylat because of DL's similarity to BF, though I could change both and it wouldn't matter much.

While it's not a huge time waste, we would need to allow players to create their own Mii outside the game and then upload it, which is the logistical issue I mentioned.
The other points brought up that forced my hand to limit to guest miis, which I didn't mention in my previous post and which I didn't necessarily agree with, were:

1. You have to create the character outside the game, and not everyone has access to do this and import the character. Buying DLC characters costs less than $30, whereas buying a handheld system and game card costs over $200 (in canadian).
2. The other point that was brought up was the need of a "standard," which the majority of players in my region were against having Miis of different sizes running around.

Pretty much the reasoning extended beyond logistics to the need of a standard, and truth be told there was a lot of agreement within the other players to enforce some standard if Miis were going to be allowed without gutting them completely. Yeah, it's a sellout, but I can't force something upon players - it only backfires me in the face - and at least this way players can still use the movesets they want. I have to come to some sort of agreement, and this was the one that most were fine with.

 

[Ajimi]

It's either Lylat on starter or DL on starter.

Why ? 7 starters (adding DH and DL to what you have) with 2-3-1 striking would be great.

And it's good to see one more scene allowing all Mii moves.

 

[T0MMY]

Halberd was originally a stage I wanted to exclude, but I was met with several complaints when I tried cutting it.

It was of interest that you used the word "several" in your response. I am unsure the exact meaning of that word so you may have to correct me later in a response, but I am going to understand it as simply a small number somewhere in the vicinity of seven - that is, a range of about 4 to 9. This signifies it does not take much to make a change in rules used, which I, as a competitor, would find rather concerning that rules could be changed so easily from a "vocal minority".

Duck Hunt is included as a cp (DH). Miiverse, I forgot to include, oops!
I'm unsure about handling BF + Miiverse as the same stage

Ok, a simple overlooking of a relatively new stage is understandable. I find myself wondering why Miiverse is constantly being either ignored from Stage Lists or outright banned (!) from lists as though it violates competition.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that Lylat Cruise offers a more diverse starting list than replacing it with Dreamland and to further seal the opinion I take in account that Dreamland is a DLC stage and not every setup may have the DLC paid for which would make it unable to be used anyway.

While it's not a huge time waste, we would need to allow players to create their own Mii outside the game and then upload it, which is the logistical issue I mentioned.

Instead of any Mii-specific rulings regarding turning the game off to make a Mii, I simply would opt for making a ruling that the game cannot be taken offline without running the risk of being penalized due to scheduling and other issues.

The other points brought up that forced my hand to limit to guest miis, which I didn't mention in my previous post and which I didn't necessarily agree with, were:

1. You have to create the character outside the game, and not everyone has access to do this and import the character. Buying DLC characters costs less than $30, whereas buying a handheld system and game card costs over $200 (in canadian).
2. The other point that was brought up was the need of a "standard," which the majority of players in my region were against having Miis of different sizes running around.

The first point is nullified by the fact that a 3DS can be used to import a Mii without exiting the game and may take less time doing this than it would creating a Mii even taking into account the Guest Mii restriction. The reasoning that it costs money to have a 3DS does not follow as a 3DS may be given to someone to use and even if we assume that is the case, I believe a new 2DS costs $99 with a used one costing half that cost, which is to say this costs about as much as a Gamecube controller ($40) & adapter ($20 - $100) required to use the Gamecube controller.
You see how this does not follow even if we were to assume that cost matters and that there is absolutely no way they could have access to one without cost. It is more reasonable to say that one may upload a Mii (logistically better than making one on each system) and that if someone does not have a way to upload their Mii they may borrow equipment to do so or simply use the Guest Mii to create one. Those who wish to upload a Mii and do not have the proper equipment to do so run the risk of not being able to use that specific Mii and should be prepared to use a Guest Mii (no johns).

The second point that there is a "need" of a standard is a change in rules. Any change of rules must be born of sound reasoning. So anyone who makes this claim must prove why it is needed (need indicates necessity, as if the game would not function without it... which seems to me to be preposterous).
However, you are saying the "majority" of players were against having Miis fully allowed, in which case they would have to give reason why - again, any change in rules must be of sound reasoning. If they are simply being illogical, unreasonable, and irrational and still trying to simply strongarm a change in rules through a herd mentality and might-makes-right tyranny of majority then simply point out what they are doing is scrubby and the events they compete in really mean nothing since they are not competitions but simply casual scrub events.

Yeah, it's a sellout, but I can't force something upon players - it only backfires me in the face - and at least this way players can still use the movesets they want. I have to come to some sort of agreement, and this was the one that most were fine with.

Where are your scruples, man? X^D
This is your event you are building, organizing, and creating - you are the artist and constructor of your house and the attendees are your guests who should be respecting both your home and your work. There is much to be said about being a gracious host to those visiting your place, but there is also something to be said about allowing the worst guests to disrespect your area of living and you as well.
It's really up to you to say what goes on with your events. It usually turns out that the supposed "majority" is actually just a small minority of very vocal players who are trying to create unfair advantages for themselves and think nothing of respect for their fellow-competitors/TOs/the-spirit-of-competition. If there really is a lot of attendees who won't attend your events due to not having scrubby rules, so much that it impacts your events significantly, then go ahead an make all of them happy and use scrubby rules and be sure to enjoy pointing out how scrubby they are whenever you get the chance ;^)

 

[Yikarur]

Guest Mii's only is the best solution. It should never be needed to use extern hardware to use content within the game. The ruleset should be playable under any circumstances and people should not be limited in their choices because they don't own a specific device.
As long as Sakurai doesn't include an in-game slider to adjust the Mii size I don't see any future for non-guest-mii's.

 

[Routa]

Yet only allowed controller is GC one and not the one that comes with the console (being the gamepad).

Has anyone here ever made a Mii? It takes under minute to make lets say MT/MT (or 25/25 size) Mii. Now most common sizes are thin (Gunner can use MT and M weight also) with any height (0,25,50,75,100). Lets say you have 20 Wii U's in your tournament. It takes about 5-6 min to make Miis to each console. Most likely you are not doing this alone. Now the question is... Does it take too much time? Nope.

Now all you need is the different sizes. You don't need to have every moveset already made for the game. Players can do that themselves really fast. It takes under 30 sec to make a Mii character with the set you want to use.

My point? Time is not the problem. TOs being lazy is the problem. The time TOs spend faping can be used for something useful you know...

 

[DavemanCozy]

It was of interest that you used the word "several" in your response. I am unsure the exact meaning of that word so you may have to correct me later in a response, but I am going to understand it as simply a small number somewhere in the vicinity of seven - that is, a range of about 4 to 9. This signifies it does not take much to make a change in rules used, which I, as a competitor, would find rather concerning that rules could be changed so easily from a "vocal minority".

Yeah, it honestly started as a small vocal minority, but it grew. At the end of the day though, the stage list ends up having 2 more stages, and I don't think it's a bad thing.

Toronto's current weekly ruleset is attempting to only use the 5 starters I listed + Dreamland. However, their monthlies use all the stages currently in our ruleset. Seeing as they are the closest top-level scene to London Ontario, it also benefits our players to play on their stages.

Ok, a simple overlooking of a relatively new stage is understandable. I find myself wondering why Miiverse is constantly being either ignored from Stage Lists or outright banned (!) from lists as though it violates competition.
For what it's worth, my opinion is that Lylat Cruise offers a more diverse starting list than replacing it with Dreamland and to further seal the opinion I take in account that Dreamland is a DLC stage and not every setup may have the DLC paid for which would make it unable to be used anyway.

I've been considering why Miiverse is excluded too. I started thinking that it's biggest problem right now is due to online tournaments which won't have Miiverse, since Miiverse is not available online you cannot choose it. Hence it would prove a problem if I were to include Miiverse separately from Battlefield.

Instead of any Mii-specific rulings regarding turning the game off to make a Mii, I simply would opt for making a ruling that the game cannot be taken offline without running the risk of being penalized due to scheduling and other issues.

The first point is nullified by the fact that a 3DS can be used to import a Mii without exiting the game and may take less time doing this than it would creating a Mii even taking into account the Guest Mii restriction. The reasoning that it costs money to have a 3DS does not follow as a 3DS may be given to someone to use and even if we assume that is the case, I believe a new 2DS costs $99 with a used one costing half that cost, which is to say this costs about as much as a Gamecube controller ($40) & adapter ($20 - $100) required to use the Gamecube controller.
You see how this does not follow even if we were to assume that cost matters and that there is absolutely no way they could have access to one without cost. It is more reasonable to say that one may upload a Mii (logistically better than making one on each system) and that if someone does not have a way to upload their Mii they may borrow equipment to do so or simply use the Guest Mii to create one. Those who wish to upload a Mii and do not have the proper equipment to do so run the risk of not being able to use that specific Mii and should be prepared to use a Guest Mii (no johns).

The second point that there is a "need" of a standard is a change in rules. Any change of rules must be born of sound reasoning. So anyone who makes this claim must prove why it is needed (need indicates necessity, as if the game would not function without it... which seems to me to be preposterous).
However, you are saying the "majority" of players were against having Miis fully allowed, in which case they would have to give reason why - again, any change in rules must be of sound reasoning. If they are simply being illogical, unreasonable, and irrational and still trying to simply strongarm a change in rules through a herd mentality and might-makes-right tyranny of majority then simply point out what they are doing is scrubby and the events they compete in really mean nothing since they are not competitions but simply casual scrub events.

I will need to consider your points further. You're right about might-makes-right, but it also follows the other way around if I force it. I'd rather ease players in to the use of Miis first, and then go further from there. I eventually plan to demonstrate that other Mii sizes should be allowed, but first things first: everyone needs to learn how to walk before we start running. I don't want to kill Miis by rushing things (just look how well that turned out with Custom moves).

Note too that this decision is fairly localized, and I'm doing this in London only: any events in the Ontario area still ban the Miis other moves and restrict them to 1111. The next event is this Sunday, and it will ban Miis from being used (I'm not running this event either). I need to start small in order to demonstrate that legalizing Mii Fighters with all their moves won't be negatively affecting player experience, in hopes that this may extend to the Toronto area.

Thanks for your input: I read your posts here and I'll admit they changed my mind about the use of Mii moves since release. Once November tournaments start running and more data comes in, I'll branch out; like I said, I don't want to rush things and kill chances of Miis being legal.

 

[Yikarur]

Yet only allowed controller is GC one and not the one that comes with the console (being the gamepad).

Has anyone here ever made a Mii? It takes under minute to make lets say MT/MT (or 25/25 size) Mii. Now most common sizes are thin (Gunner can use MT and M weight also) with any height (0,25,50,75,100). Lets say you have 20 Wii U's in your tournament. It takes about 5-6 min to make Miis to each console. Most likely you are not doing this alone. Now the question is... Does it take too much time? Nope.

Now all you need is the different sizes. You don't need to have every moveset already made for the game. Players can do that themselves really fast. It takes under 30 sec to make a Mii character with the set you want to use.

My point? Time is not the problem. TOs being lazy is the problem. The time TOs spend faping can be used for something useful you know...

There are over 1000 Heigth/width combinations and they all have slightly different attributes.

 

[Routa]

There are over 1000 Heigth/width combinations and they all have slightly different attributes.

Want me to list most common ones? 0/0, 25/0, 50/0, 75/0, 0/25, 25/25, 50/25, 75/25, 50/50 and 0/100. The player can ofc make a new character. Ad I said it wont take much time. Even M2K's hand-warming takes longer.