[Competitive Discussion] Let's learn together

[Colin Steele]

I've seen people use Whistle-armor. Unless I'm horribly mistaken, I saw some one use it in a replay multiple times last night at high percents.

 

[Colin Steele]

I'll get around to writing my actual thoughts on how he needs to be played and all that at some point. For now I'll say this. If you want to win bait your opponent and punish. Rinse and repeat. You should never be approaching.

He plays pretty much the same, only you have to be more careful, because now you are in fact the puny little baby-man that you appear to be.

 

[Myran]

He plays pretty much the same, only you have to be more careful, because now you are in fact the puny little baby-man that you appear to be.

He plays the same in the sense of his camp game(If you can call it that), but you can't really be aggressive at all. To many of his moves have worse range and ending lag then before.

 

[Colin Steele]

He plays the same in the sense of his camp game(If you can call it that), but you can't really be aggressive at all. To many of his moves have worse range and ending lag then before.

Not against faster characters like but I think you can be more aggressive with a or you really have to be aggressive, or you'll slowly (or quickly) die. His ending lag is limiting though, again you have to balance that carefulness with the aggression. I haven't been having a lot of success with that though.

 

[Myran]

Not against faster characters like but I think you can be more aggressive with a or you really have to be aggressive, or you'll slowly (or quickly) die. His ending lag is limiting though, again you have to balance that carefulness with the aggression. I haven't been having a lot of success with that though.

Against faster characters such as I prefer to not even go Olimar. Their speed allows for pretty much guarenteed punish against Olimar if he whiffs an attack. Now against slower characters like or I will not approach them. With the Pikmin toss you can sit back and rack up damage until they want to attack, and when they do you punish accordingly. More times than not when I become the aggressor I lose the overall match, because they learn to exploit Olimar's slowness.

 

[greatbernard]

I don't think Olimar's new recovery is good, from a competitive standpoint. Its slow and easy to exploit, though it gives him a lot of range. Relative to his god-awful SSBB recovery, its a step up.

 

[Myran]

I don't think Olimar's new recovery is good, from a competitive standpoint. Its slow and easy to exploit, though it gives him a lot of range. Relative to his god-awful SSBB recovery, its a step up.

It isn't perfect, but it has its uses. I think it is fine, and can be used to recover from pretty deep with 1 or no Pikmin. Also being able to throw a move out before you land can help ward off the enemy. My only gripe is that I've heard the flying Pikmin get tired if you keep using it off stage without landing. I'm guessing this means they don't go as far.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I did face a Metal Olimar at one point. Let's just say that being metallic is very bad for his third jump.

 

[greatbernard]

Metal Olimar. Ouch!!

Olimar has always been a ground character from the beginning, so he never needed an excellent recovery. In SSBB, he was an average speed character in relation to really slow characters. Now it seems like other characters sped up and Olimar is a bit slow.

 

[Myran]

Metal Olimar. Ouch!!

Olimar has always been a ground character from the beginning, so he never needed an excellent recovery. In SSBB, he was an average speed character in relation to really slow characters. Now it seems like other characters sped up and Olimar is a bit slow.

Olimar is much slower in this game in almost every aspect. He might not have been the fastest in Brawl, but a lot of his moves had little to no lag.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Well, I've been playing Olimar a lot, and there's definitely been some changes.

I think his recovery is pretty good. Easy to read, but it's better than the chain.

I feel like Olimar does have to be a bit more aggressive now, especially against slow-medium slow characters. I've had great success as an aggressive Olimar, but I see some of you guys haven't. Not sure if it's our playstyles or who we're playing against.

Also the leaf>bud>flower is gone, at least on 3DS it would seem. Not sure if that's a buff or a nerf.

Whistle seems to better at calling Pikmin back. Has anyone tested the super armor?

Overall, I think Olimar is definitely...different from Brawl. He can't spam as much, forcing him to be a bit aggressive. I look forward to how he develops as time goes on. I hope and end up being good characters!

 

[greatbernard]

He was also given only 3 Pikmin. I disapprove of this decision because the Pikmin games themselves were about multitasking and doing a lot of strategizing in a limited period of time.

 

[Myran]

There is another post in the Olimar forums that would be better to talk about all of this aside from his Up-B.

 

[Myran]

Also the leaf>bud>flower is gone, at least on 3DS it would seem. Not sure if that's a buff or a nerf.

That did nothing in Brawl so it doesn't change anything.
Also he has super armor.

 

[StripedNinja]

I'll get around to writing my actual thoughts on how he needs to be played and all that at some point. For now I'll say this. If you want to win bait your opponent and punish. Rinse and repeat. You should never be approaching.

I actually disagree. Ive found thatbwhen I try to play him like that (basically how I did in Brawl), I end up losing control of yhe stage, which is bad for Olimar. But maybe thats just me.

 

[StripedNinja]

Are we sure there is super armor on the whistle? The wiki pages says there is none, but I guess it could be wrong.

Yes, 100%. Ive been using it. Its just less.

 

[Myran]

I actually disagree. Ive found thatbwhen I try to play him like that (basically how I did in Brawl), I end up losing control of yhe stage, which is bad for Olimar. But maybe thats just me.

I don't think I made myself clear when I said what I did. I'm not playing it like Brawl. It's a different type of waiting game I guess lol.

 

[StripedNinja]

I don't think I made myself clear when I said what I did. I'm not playing it like Brawl. It's a different type of waiting game I guess lol.

I didnt say how you played. I just pointed out that how you were describing was basucally MY Brawl strategy. And going in just worked for me a lot more in this game.

 

[Myran]

I didnt say how you played. I just pointed out that how you were describing was basucally MY Brawl strategy. And going in just worked for me a lot more in this game.

Mmk

 

[Boomuki]

When does the whistle have superarmor? at the very first frames or a bit later? because i somehow cant get it.

 

[Myran]

Not sure of the exact frame. I just try use it right when I'm about to be hit.

 

[egaddmario]

Well, I've been playing Olimar a lot, and there's definitely been some changes.

I think his recovery is pretty good. Easy to read, but it's better than the chain.

I feel like Olimar does have to be a bit more aggressive now, especially against slow-medium slow characters. I've had great success as an aggressive Olimar, but I see some of you guys haven't. Not sure if it's our playstyles or who we're playing against.

Also the leaf>bud>flower is gone, at least on 3DS it would seem. Not sure if that's a buff or a nerf.

Whistle seems to better at calling Pikmin back. Has anyone tested the super armor?

Overall, I think Olimar is definitely...different from Brawl. He can't spam as much, forcing him to be a bit aggressive. I look forward to how he develops as time goes on. I hope and end up being good characters!

This. Man. Gets. It.

Olimar isn't Brawl-imar. He's new. And with less Pikmin, it's much harder to sit back and camp all day. So what does that mean? Approach. Being aggressive isn't a bad thing in this game since he ACTUALLY HAS a recovery. He can go off stage for those riskier plays and make it back alive, which he couldn't even dream about in Brawl. Such, his grab game was nerfed, some smashes nerfed, Pikmin Toss nerfed, but look at this- his aerials weren't nerfed at all. I think Olimar is going to not only play aggressive this game but almost play like Melee/Brawl Marth, using Fairs for spacing and grabs primarily just for set ups. Of course Pikmin Toss will still be used, but i've been playing him with a bigger focus on aerials and i've been doing fantastic!

 

[Aguki90]

I been a Olimar Main Since brawl days I reaally loved him. Even in project or even now, I still love him.
I gonna made groups Smash attack and Ground attacks(Tilts.)

Smash Attack: F Smash-Foward smash have more ending lag on it, so is punishable but it got a little buff. In brawl when you do F smash and the Pikmin fly off, is the pikmin he go slow, he do a weak knockback but a lot damage, in here, The pikmin fly off, wherever still flying and going, he can do a strong knockback and damage, Is more useful than before. It can be a kill move.
And yeah, is your a little far away of the edge, your Pikmin will not fall, but is your in the edge and do a F smash, the Pikmin will fly foward and fall.

Up Smash- This move is nerfed. Has less range and more ending lag, heck in brawl that move can let you protect from Toon Link dair, Twice! But no it can't. Even have less range and the beast he was in brawl. Is still a kill move is you close in, in 120% is a sure kill for a final destination mode.

Down air- Poor down air. It got the same treatment in like U smash. The range and more lag. I use less but when he hit. it feel like bral days, soo still have that knock back and power that launch you. It send you like a straight line that go down.

Olimar Smash attack are more risky to do it. So need to be careful when you do it.

Ground Tilt- Neutral Attacks- The neutral attack is change and feel diferent. He does 1 and 2 quick but weak punches. There not really good, but is really good to use when other player are doing some thing because Olimar neutral attacks are really, but really fast.

F tilt- They change too its f tilt. Instead of a dropkick, now is a Super Big Punch. I don't know to say but this move is a reboot of its dropkick, he almost use the same mechanic, the lag, the hit, the range and feels soo good. But seriusly is still fast, Punishable for yourself is you doint wrong, and Hits really hard, and the range is more predictable.

D-air- Still the same from brawl with few tweaks.(This move is beast in Brawl even project M) Does not have super armor to star off and its faster. He a really a good move that you can even leap foward forna bit. Is a good combo start up to. Dtilt then uptilt. Quite nerf he got but still a good move to use to punish your oppenent.

Up tilt. This move some sassy new tweaks. He does the same from brawl but with higher range, especially rise up in the air, and hit harde. This move is good for combo startup. and Still quite fast.

Olimar have new tweaks and change of tilts, this alone, make olimar a total diferent olimar from the past. Is new punched animation and power are better representation of pikmin 2 and the entire series.

Edit:Continued? YES!

Now let talk more about olimar how it was. I gonna talk about its Air tilts, Grabs, Final Smash and Olimar general Information.

Air Tilts- Nair- The neutral air still almost the same. but the new tweaks make feel like a glue, Hit will hit you multiple times and fly off, Almost like Mario Dair. Is a great combo Startup, Like Nair>Uptilt>Nair. It does a lot of damage.

Fair- Same as brawl but is a little weak but still good and the range is shorter. But is Faster. Low Jump and Fair is a very good option and can be very punishable to the foe. As is a good combo ending.

Bair- Same as brawl and same tweak with Fair. Is a little slower startup but it have a better knockback. Low back jump>Bair is risky but the reward is good.

Dair- Same as brawl. It can a tricky meteor smash now. You can see the effect or the sparkle effect that the hit can be good enough to meteor smash, Is kinda tricky but is definite one the fastest meteor smash of the game.
It have lot ending lag on the ground is use close.

Uptilt-This move is drastically change and look a shorted version of project M Olimar Uptilt. What he does is use is Pikmin like a whip or swing is sword up (like Ike Uptilt???) is 1 hit move and hit very hard. Is range is very short, and is very fast move too. But a 120% in the air in a Final Destination mode is a sure kill. Of all Air tilts this one is the only one is different.

Grabs- Olimar grabs are nerfed. The Grabs of Olimar are the most nerfed abilitys of Olimar aside of its 3 Pikmin only army. The range is shorter, has more lag on it and the kill power is lower. The Blue Pikmin still have the best grab, not good knockback in brawl but still do a lot of damage, the purple still good as grab too, but the range is pathetic, like really short, the white strangely has the longest but its the weakest of the bunch?

Fair and Btrow same like brawl but less kill power, this move is good for forcing your foes to stay in the edge of the field or even out of it. Is more a control option than Kill move or even combo it.

Dtrow and Uptrow same like brawl, like Fair and Btrwo, less kill power but is a good combo startup, Like use Uptrow>Uptilt, but the best is Dtrow>Fair is the best option in my opinion for more damage. You can try to Dtrow>Nair!

Final Smash- End of the Day- More like Get to the Choppa and EXPLOSIONS!!! .....................................
Anyway. When Olimar trigger is Final Smash he hop in the Hocotate Ship, any Opponent under will be buried (I don't remember it can Meteor Smash yet...) and Fly off to the sky. Its opponent will be taking damage over the night after that Olimar will fall down and crash its ship to the opponent, Here there some Tweaks very cool.
Olimar Ship is almost fully controlled the directional you want. But be careful to not FALL IN THE PIT AND DIE!!!
The radius of the explosion is bigger and have a better effect overall. And yeah when Olimar came back after the ship crashed, He is not 100% helpless like in brawl.

Olimar general Info- Olimar is a light character that use its Pikmin has is Main Arsenal Weapon. It can Attack with its Pikmin, He can trow them, He can call the back to him and he can Pluck them to Join force to Olimar.
Each Colored Pikmin has different attributes. Red is Second strongest and fire atribuites, Blue Pikmin is the stronger grabber, Yellow Pikmin has high reach trow and shocking atributes, White Pikmin is the lightest, the longest range and have poision atributes and Purple Pikmin has lowest range but the most powerful of the bunch. Like my Olimar own tittle, The Minion Master! Use you power and pikmin wisely!

Problem with Olimar??? I explain.

Olimar feel like...A different from brawl. It kinda hard to get use to it first of it change like is Weight, new attacks and the diferent effects that he does. You need to give time to get use to it and especially for the 3DS control make it even harder to get him to use for.

The Main problem of Olimar is...The Pikmin A.I. There horrible sometime like why or I don't even explain.
First when you grab the edge, the pikmin Will fall offf instead of sticking with you, sometime they fly off over the screen trying to find you and even trying to stick with you. Sometime things go soo crazy they even MOONWALKING in the field. I don't have comment for the MOONWALKING part but that happen.
I don't mean the worse but their A.I. is not good at all and that the reason I using its down special for every second of it.(At least they response to the call perfectly.)

I love the Smash 4 Olimar. is not a beast like in brawl but still pack a punch. I was talk about the custom moves, equiptment and Special moves because I have almost all of them. Because of that I need a post only about customization. For now I leave my General Info of Olimar and what I have thought of it too.

 

[StripedNinja]

I have yet to come across another Olimar payer online... this makes me sad. Hopefully this won't be the case after people spend some time with him

 

[Myran]

I have yet to come across another Olimar payer online... this makes me sad. Hopefully this won't be the case after people spend some time with him

I fought a japanese guy once who used him before he left. That is all I have seen.

 

[Menk]

I mained Olimar all through Brawl, and by far the most annoying thing in that was when Pikmin didn't let you use them for an attack or ghosted or fell off randomly. So far I've had pikmin randomly fly across the stage in every match I've played in smash 4, and I can't figure out why. I'm not even attacking. They just teleport across the stage like with yoshi's up b ledge teleport glitch. Is that common for anyone else?

 

[Myran]

I mained Olimar all through Brawl, and by far the most annoying thing in that was when Pikmin didn't let you use them for an attack or ghosted or fell off randomly. So far I've had pikmin randomly fly across the stage in every match I've played in smash 4, and I can't figure out why. I'm not even attacking. They just teleport across the stage like with yoshi's up b ledge teleport glitch. Is that common for anyone else?

Yeah, the Pikmin desyncs and all that seem so much worse in this game. I'd hope they could fix it so I could actually follow up sometimes instead of my Pikmin randomly falling out of the air when I try to Up-Air or something.

 

[Pikminmaniac]

I feel it's easily the biggest buff Olimar gained. The fact that he can return to the stage no matter how far away he is regardless of how many pikmin are with him is pretty strong (the biggest problem with having 3 when returning is more the speed than the range). When you have 1 to no Pikmin the amount of control and speed you have over Olimar is exceptional. You have to straight KO Olimar off the screen or else he's coming back. It also gives him a great deal of pursuit options off the side of the stage which I like a lot.

 

[Pikminmaniac]

This. Man. Gets. It.

Olimar isn't Brawl-imar. He's new. And with less Pikmin, it's much harder to sit back and camp all day. So what does that mean? Approach. Being aggressive isn't a bad thing in this game since he ACTUALLY HAS a recovery. He can go off stage for those riskier plays and make it back alive, which he couldn't even dream about in Brawl. Such, his grab game was nerfed, some smashes nerfed, Pikmin Toss nerfed, but look at this- his aerials weren't nerfed at all. I think Olimar is going to not only play aggressive this game but almost play like Melee/Brawl Marth, using Fairs for spacing and grabs primarily just for set ups. Of course Pikmin Toss will still be used, but i've been playing him with a bigger focus on aerials and i've been doing fantastic!

This is exactly as I see it and how I've been playing Olimar to great success

 

[Jerm]

I can't even play Oli in this game because I find him rather lackluster. The only 3 pikmin thing is a lot more devastating than I originally thought. I instantly toss whites now when the opponent has high percent to prevent using it as a smash and doing pitiful knockback. His side b is now also useless because of this.

His upsmash is awful. It has incredible endinglag and was weakened knockback wise. Same with his Dsmash except there is no additional lag. His forward smash is at least decent.

His aerials are also quite bad. Fair with a purple doesn't come even close to killing even at 140%+. His new u-air lacks the epic priority of his old u-air in brawl. At least his bair has some kill potential.

I would also prefer the chain at this point. The winged pikmin are just sooo slow and obvious. I just get smacked around a little bit more but still die a majority of the time.

The lack of rock pikmin is also extremely disappointing.

Edit: They also completely nerfed blue pikmin viability by removing their kill throw. The grab range seems as if though it was cut in half as well-especially pivoting with a grab.

 

[kunimitsu877]

i haven't actually played it but from what ive seen olimar/alph is awesome

 

[DarkStraw]

I mained olimar in brawl and I've had smash 3ds since it launched in the US. Feels like they nerfed the **** out of him. RIP

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I don't think Olimar's new recovery is good, from a competitive standpoint. Its slow and easy to exploit, though it gives him a lot of range. Relative to his god-awful SSBB recovery, its a step up.

Merged your thread with our competitive discussion thread.

 

[StripedNinja]

I feel like a lot of people are just bummed hes not Brawlimar. Hes a new Olimar guys, of course he's gonna be bad if you play him like the old one

 

[Myran]

I feel like a lot of people are just bummed hes not Brawlimar. Hes a new Olimar guys, of course he's gonna be bad if you play him like the old one

If you play him like the new one he's still bad. They nerfed almost every singled thing about him from Brawl.

 

[StripedNinja]

If you play him like the new one he's still bad. They nerfed almost every singled thing about him from Brawl.

Well most things about him were above average. Anyway, his killpower has not really been nerfed, its the blast zones fault, his moves still mostly do the same knockback. Hes slightly faster on the ground abd his forward and backward arials are also slightly faster. His range got nerfed in the form of his grab, up smash and up air but it increased with his side Smash,one of his most useful moves. He has less Pikmin but he can acess Pikmin from further away and has no problem obtaining more. White Pikmin still do tons of damage on throw but even the other less damaging types are very very solid distractors which was thier main use anyway. Blue throws definitley CAN kill, ive been able to kill medium characters with upthrow reliabley at around 130. While his Up B is predictable it solves his BIGGEST PROBLEM in Brawl, which is recovery. In fact he can recover from pretty much anywhere, Ive even been finding myself coming back from some solid spikes, and being able to attack out of it makes his up B safe ENOUGH. Overall while Pikmin have decreased in number, they have in my opinion greatly increased in accessibility. And that plus his slight speed increase makes Olimar feel like a solid offensive choice to slow characters and a very adaptable choice to fast characters, and he still has solid follow ups, projectiles and kill potential. I have been very succesful with him online. And honestly, well not BETTER, in my opinion he's just funner.

 

[Myran]

Well most things about him were above average. Anyway, his killpower has not really been nerfed, its the blast zones fault, his moves still mostly do the same knockback. Hes slightly faster on the ground abd his forward and backward arials are also slightly faster. His range got nerfed in the form of his grab, up smash and up air but it increased with his side Smash,one of his most useful moves. He has less Pikmin but he can acess Pikmin from further away and has no problem obtaining more. White Pikmin still do tons of damage on throw but even the other less damaging types are very very solid distractors which was thier main use anyway. Blue throws definitley CAN kill, ive been able to kill medium characters with upthrow reliabley at around 130. While his Up B is predictable it solves his BIGGEST PROBLEM in Brawl, which is recovery. In fact he can recover from pretty much anywhere, Ive even been finding myself coming back from some solid spikes, and being able to attack out of it makes his up B safe ENOUGH. Overall while Pikmin have decreased in number, they have in my opinion greatly increased in accessibility. And that plus his slight speed increase makes Olimar feel like a solid offensive choice to slow characters and a very adaptable choice to fast characters, and he still has solid follow ups, projectiles and kill potential. I have been very succesful with him online. And honestly, well not BETTER, in my opinion he's just funner.

His priority is bad too. His up throw can't reliably kill most characters at 130 unless you have some form of rage mode. The Pikmin desyncs in the game are even worse than Brawl. I can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to follow up because of of them ran to the other side of the map. They increased the lag on almost all of his ground based moves. The took away the kill power off most his grabs. Pikmin who attach on from Pikmin throw do less damage as well. Whites do abou 3 or 4 per tick in this game, but in Brawl they did 6 per tick. I don't know how you can try to justify what was done to him. Sure he was really good in Brawl, but they made everything aside from his recovery worse.

P.S. They also made all of his smash attacks reflectable. I lost a match because a Mario caped my purple upsmash and I died. That is just some bad game design choices.

 

[egaddmario]

His priority is bad too. His up throw can't reliably kill most characters at 130 unless you have some form of rage mode. The Pikmin desyncs in the game are even worse than Brawl. I can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to follow up because of of them ran to the other side of the map. They increased the lag on almost all of his ground based moves. The took away the kill power off most his grabs. Pikmin who attach on from Pikmin throw do less damage as well. Whites do abou 3 or 4 per tick in this game, but in Brawl they did 6 per tick. I don't know how you can try to justify what was done to him. Sure he was really good in Brawl, but they made everything aside from his recovery worse.

P.S. They also made all of his smash attacks reflectable. I lost a match because a Mario caped my purple upsmash and I died. That is just some bad game design choices.

In all honesty, his smashs SHOULD be considered projectiles because they ARE projectiles.

 

[Myran]

In all honesty, his smashs SHOULD be considered projectiles because they ARE projectiles.

When all of a characters smashes and a majority of his kill power is said smashes it doesn't make to much since to limit his power. It defeats the purpose of hard reads, because if the person gets even the slightest chance they can reflect it if there character has the move.

 

[StripedNinja]

His priority is bad too. His up throw can't reliably kill most characters at 130 unless you have some form of rage mode. The Pikmin desyncs in the game are even worse than Brawl. I can't tell you how many times I haven't been able to follow up because of of them ran to the other side of the map. They increased the lag on almost all of his ground based moves. The took away the kill power off most his grabs. Pikmin who attach on from Pikmin throw do less damage as well. Whites do abou 3 or 4 per tick in this game, but in Brawl they did 6 per tick. I don't know how you can try to justify what was done to him. Sure he was really good in Brawl, but they made everything aside from his recovery worse.

P.S. They also made all of his smash attacks reflectable. I lost a match because a Mario caped my purple upsmash and I died. That is just some bad game design choices.

Only his up smash has more lag, his down Smash is actually faster and his side smash is yhe same. And 4% for each hit is still a LOT of damage. I havent noticed a decrease in priority but I dont have solid backing on that. I have had different expiriences woth up throw, I find it reliable. His smashes are reflectable, but it isnt bad game design, it just changes matchups and makes you focus on arials and setups more. Ive also come across that situation and I delt with it. Pikmin are definitley screwy with AI but they are also easier to acess. Im not justifying anything, I am not looking at how hebis compared to Brawl, that is the exact thing Im AVOIDING. Everyone ELSE seems obsessed with it and thats the problem. All I'm looking at is how he is now in comparison to the rest of the cast, and hes still a character who does lots of damage, has good kill potential, has a somewhat readable but VERY far recovery and has a lot of cool tricks up his sleeve.