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Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

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  • Total voters
    585

Nathan Richardson

Smash Ace
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Warren MI.
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1000rank (a ranking in 2019) now has a ranking for this entire year.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/zl15qe Here's the top 20 going by that ranking (something to point out is that it doesn't care too much about players with lackluster attendance)
  1. πŸ‡²πŸ‡½ MkLeo :ultbyleth::ultjoker::ultmythra: :ultcorrinf:
  2. πŸ‡²πŸ‡½ Sparg0 :ultcloud::ultmythra::ultbylethf:
  3. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ acola :ultsteve::ultkazuya::ultmythra:
  4. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Light :ultfox:
  5. πŸ‡©πŸ‡΄ Sonix :ultsonic:
  6. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Onin :ultsteve:
  7. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Shuton :ultmythra::ultolimar:
  8. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Tea :ultpacman::ultkazuya:
  9. πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦ Riddles :ultkazuya::ult_terry:
  10. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Dabuz :ultrosalina::ultminmin :ultolimar:
  11. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Kola :ultroy::ultcloud:
  12. πŸ‡²πŸ‡½ Maister :ultgnw: :ultsora:
  13. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Miya :ultgnw: :ulthero:
  14. πŸ‡«πŸ‡· Glutonny :ultwario::ultroy::ultwolf:
  15. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Quidd :ultpokemontrainerf:
  16. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Tweek :ultdiddy::ultsephiroth::ultwario::ultmythra:
  17. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ ProtoBanham :ultlucina::ultminmin
  18. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Yoshidora :ultyoshi:
  19. πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ Cosmos :ultmythra:
  20. πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅ Kameme :ultsora:
I've noticed only 7 out of the top 20 use solo characters. The top three have three characters (with MkLeo having 4) or more they switch between. It seems like having pockets or secondaries is what's needed to get far in smash....
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
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Aug 24, 2018
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I've noticed only 7 out of the top 20 use solo characters. The top three have three characters (with MkLeo having 4) or more they switch between. It seems like having pockets or secondaries is what's needed to get far in smash....
You can actually change it to 6 out of the top 20 because Sora still uses Mega Man and Sheik a little. I just forgot to add those.
 
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Arthur97

Smash Master
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Jun 7, 2016
Messages
3,463
I've noticed only 7 out of the top 20 use solo characters. The top three have three characters (with MkLeo having 4) or more they switch between. It seems like having pockets or secondaries is what's needed to get far in smash....
Eh, Leo uses Joker for like one matchup. Corrin is similarly not used that much.
 

Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
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Apr 26, 2016
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I've noticed only 7 out of the top 20 use solo characters. The top three have three characters (with MkLeo having 4) or more they switch between. It seems like having pockets or secondaries is what's needed to get far in smash....
It's a bit misleading since many of them primarily focus on one character. MkLeo mostly plays Byleth, Sparg0 mostly Cloud, acola mostly Steve, Kola mostly Roy these days (I think), Maister mostly G&W, Glutonny mostly Wario, Kameme mostly Sora, even Tweek seems to generally default to Diddy Kong these days (although based on his recent YouTube videos he might start using his Sephiroth a bit more). I haven't seen enough of Miya to say whether he's mostly G&W or not.

That leaves Shuton, Tea, Riddles, Dabuz, and ProtoBanham as the players who actually frequently use two characters in top 20. Tea is primarily Pac-Man but his Kazuya is scary, Riddles is primarily Kazuya but he still uses Terry quite a bit, and Shuton/Dabuz/ProtoBanham should probably be considered dualmains at this point.

This list seems to be really generous with considering characters secondaries. Like, Tweek Aegis. It's also worth keeping in mind that many of those characters are like, "This used to be my main and then I picked up another character, but I still kept using my old main to some extent". Shuton was an Olimar main before he picked up Aegis, ProtoBanham was a Lucina main before he picked up Min Min, Dabuz mained Rosalina in Smash 4 and Olimar in early Ultimate and now mains both, and so on and so forth. They're also playing at a higher level than mid level or even high level players, so the opportunity cost for playing two characters isn't as significant.

I think if you actually want to pick up a secondary, you should probably treat it as a main for at least a few months. If you just play the character occasionally but never really dedicate yourself to it then there's a good chance you're going to do worse than you would've done with your actual main.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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It's a bit misleading since many of them primarily focus on one character. MkLeo mostly plays Byleth, Sparg0 mostly Cloud, acola mostly Steve, Kola mostly Roy these days (I think), Maister mostly G&W, Glutonny mostly Wario, Kameme mostly Sora, even Tweek seems to generally default to Diddy Kong these days (although based on his recent YouTube videos he might start using his Sephiroth a bit more). I haven't seen enough of Miya to say whether he's mostly G&W or not.

That leaves Shuton, Tea, Riddles, Dabuz, and ProtoBanham as the players who actually frequently use two characters in top 20. Tea is primarily Pac-Man but his Kazuya is scary, Riddles is primarily Kazuya but he still uses Terry quite a bit, and Shuton/Dabuz/ProtoBanham should probably be considered dualmains at this point.

This list seems to be really generous with considering characters secondaries. Like, Tweek Aegis. It's also worth keeping in mind that many of those characters are like, "This used to be my main and then I picked up another character, but I still kept using my old main to some extent". Shuton was an Olimar main before he picked up Aegis, ProtoBanham was a Lucina main before he picked up Min Min, Dabuz mained Rosalina in Smash 4 and Olimar in early Ultimate and now mains both, and so on and so forth. They're also playing at a higher level than mid level or even high level players, so the opportunity cost for playing two characters isn't as significant.

I think if you actually want to pick up a secondary, you should probably treat it as a main for at least a few months. If you just play the character occasionally but never really dedicate yourself to it then there's a good chance you're going to do worse than you would've done with your actual main.
Yeah, I just got the characters from the writeups.
 

Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
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Matches so far at Scuffed World Tour:

MkLeo :ultbyleth: 3-2 Ferps :ultkazuya:
Riddles :ultkazuya: 3-1 Glutonny :ultwario:
Tweek 3-2 Maister (wasn't streamed but likely Diddy-GnW?)
Light :ultfox: 3-0 :ultminmin:ultrosalina: Dabuz (also not streamed but Light stated the characters on stream)
Acola :ultsteve: 3-0 :ultyounglink: Jdizzle
Sparg0 3-1 Sisqui (very likely Cloud-Samus)
Miya :ultgnw: 3-0 Onin :ultsteve:

The last match for Round 1 winners is Shuton vs. Sonix, and they're streaming the first match of losers, Glutonny vs. Ferps (poor Gluto man... that Riddles set pretty much proved that Wario is never going to be solo viable in a meta with Kazuya)
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
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Jan 10, 2018
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(poor Gluto man... that Riddles set pretty much proved that Wario is never going to be solo viable in a meta with Kazuya)
Glutonny:ultwario: 3-1 Ferps:ultkazuya:. Riddles is just built different.
Maister, Jdizzle, and Sisqui are all eliminated at 13th alongside Ferps.

MkLeo:ultmarth: 3-2 Riddles:ultkazuya:
Tweek:ultsephiroth: 3-1 Light:ultfox:
acola:ultsteve: 3-1 Shuton:ultmythra:
We now have Sparg0:ultcloud: vs Miya:ultgnw: left for winner's quarterfinals, a tough match for Miya since Sparg0 has all the experience needed from Maister.
 
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Idon

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Never in my life has my faith in Marth ever been so restored to then be so immediately crushed lol.

Good on MKLeo for breaking him out for the one time though. Definitely some of the most entertaining sets I've seen.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
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Tweek's Seph beating Light's Fox is the most confusing thing
KEN has done it against Paseriman's Fox before. The MU isn't impossible, just challenging and I feel like Light might've been playing sloppy?

Either that, or the MU isn't as bad as people thought it was.
 

Rizen

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Tweek proving the last two tournaments that he is not washed up and still very much a top competitor.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Tweek proving the last two tournaments that he is not washed up and still very much a top competitor.
I don't think there was many people who thought he was washed. He was doing worse, but I think that was because of his struggles against Light's Fox and didn't have a strong secondary to deal with weird Diddy matchups like :ultsnake: and :ulticeclimbers:, leading his results to be a bit inconsistent and putting him in a character crisis. Now Tweek's Sephiroth has gotten very good and is doing just fine for those weird Diddy matchups. Sparg0 might be turning into a bit of a bracket demon for him though.
 

Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
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Tweek's Seph beating Light's Fox is the most confusing thing
Tweek is (most likely) a better player than Light so even thought Sephiroth loses the MU the better player won. Tweek is starting to look like a top 5 contender again, and if he keeps this up he probably will be next year (probably not this year though).

Going into 2023, MkLeo, Sparg0, and acola could all be contenders for the #1 spot. For 2022 I'm thinking the #1 spot will probably still go to MkLeo (if acola had won Scuffed then I think he would've been #1, it might be a fairly close race!).

Maybe acola could still get #1 if he wins JAPAN 24, the Japanese invitational with 24 Japanese players. Shuton and Miya are also going, and this could affect their ranking as well? It'll be interesting to see various PRs coming soon.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Tweek is (most likely) a better player than Light so even thought Sephiroth loses the MU the better player won. Tweek is starting to look like a top 5 contender again, and if he keeps this up he probably will be next year (probably not this year though).

Going into 2023, MkLeo, Sparg0, and acola could all be contenders for the #1 spot. For 2022 I'm thinking the #1 spot will probably still go to MkLeo (if acola had won Scuffed then I think he would've been #1, it might be a fairly close race!).

Maybe acola could still get #1 if he wins JAPAN 24, the Japanese invitational with 24 Japanese players. Shuton and Miya are also going, and this could affect their ranking as well? It'll be interesting to see various PRs coming soon.
OrionRank will not be counting JAPAN 24 for this year, but rather for 2023. Not sure on the other rankings.
 

Sucumbio

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Sparg0 Cloud busted. Nice Aegis too. Shuton tho.... Most impressive Aegis I've watched. Sparg0 and Light are similar in aggressive strategy, Tweek is patient and it works. Riddles seemed pretty shut down after losing to MKLeo. Acola and Onin and Sonix all played so well...Great sets all around.
 

superjm

Smash Apprentice
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I'm baffled that Leo didn't pull out Joker against Shuton. His Joker very definitively destroys other Olimars and Shuton has had his number in previous encounters with the character. Maybe he was afraid of the Aegis but getting into a counterpick war seems way preferable to getting dumpstered by the Olimar again.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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I'm baffled that Leo didn't pull out Joker against Shuton. His Joker very definitively destroys other Olimars and Shuton has had his number in previous encounters with the character. Maybe he was afraid of the Aegis but getting into a counterpick war seems way preferable to getting dumpstered by the Olimar again.
At this point I feel like he just pulls out Joker to bully Dabuz.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Surprise, surprise. The GOAT is going to Genesis 9.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Results for Japan 24, the first tourney of OrionStats and OrionRank 2023
1. acola :ultsteve:
2. Miya :ultgnw: :ultzombie:
3. HIKARU :ultroy::ultdk::ultbrawler:
4. Kameme :ultsora::ultmegaman::ultsheik::ultbyleth:
5. Umeki :ultdaisy:
5. Tsubaki :ultjoker:
7. MASA :ultfalco:
7. Masha :ultwolf:
9. KEN :ultsonic::ultsephiroth:
9. Omuatsu :ultminmin
9. Futari No Kiwami Ah~! :ulticeclimbers:
9. Rizeasu :ultbyleth::ultmarth::ultsephiroth:
13. Hero :ultbowser:
13. Ryuoh :ultdiddy:
13. kept :ultvillager::ultisabelle: :ultdiddy:
13. Asimo :ultryu:
17. Kome :ultshulk:
17. Tsumusuto :ultdoc:
17. Higachan :ultganondorf:
17. alice :ultroy:
21. Ball :ultkrool:
21. Shissho :ultdoc:
21. Atelier :ultwolf: :ultpokemontrainerf:
21. Abadango :ultmetaknight: :ultsamus: :ultpalutena:
 
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Hydreigonfan01

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Here's a tier list done by Shogun, Paseriman, OMNato and Nanchan. Outside of Steve and the bottom tier, it seems to be ordered by the character's number on the website.

I don't know what the numbers in the right mean either.
 
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Sucumbio

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I already posted that.
Lol so you did! Whoops my b.

In regards to it tho, why are they hiding it for however many weeks before sharing? Is there any precedent for that? I only seem to recall Steve players keeping their discoveries hidden, and that was just to avoid the balance team suppose but it's pretty much guaranteed we're not getting anymore patches so...?
 

Aligo

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Lol so you did! Whoops my b.

In regards to it tho, why are they hiding it for however many weeks before sharing? Is there any precedent for that? I only seem to recall Steve players keeping their discoveries hidden, and that was just to avoid the balance team suppose but it's pretty much guaranteed we're not getting anymore patches so...?
Probably trying to avoid drawing further ire from the competitive community by drip feeding broken tech. Otherwise Steve would have probably been banned in more places by now if all the broken nonsense was revealed at once.

The more vindictive part of me feels as though Steve should be restricted due to the lies and general dishonesty of his community on top of poor gameplay design, though more minor restrictions should probably be put in place first.

Banning a character entirely is a really big deal and not to be taken hastily; it cuts off an entire community in effect. Though it is pretty certain that the character is not playing as the developers intended.
 
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Cheryl~

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I saw a take by DDee stating that it is cool how Steve gets new techniques almost every week, but that they will always be overshadowed by just how good his normals are. Honestly agree wholeheartedly, even with players like Acola implementing tech like the PBR Minecarts into their play. Steve's initial toolkit, with Up-Tilt, Jab, Back-Air, is so, SO good that all this fancy stuff doesn't even feel worth it half the time when you can spam your F-Smash and probably win off of it.
 

Eremurus

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bring back pluto
Lol so you did! Whoops my b.

In regards to it tho, why are they hiding it for however many weeks before sharing? Is there any precedent for that? I only seem to recall Steve players keeping their discoveries hidden, and that was just to avoid the balance team suppose but it's pretty much guaranteed we're not getting anymore patches so...?
WhyDo delayed it for 17 weeks because of how many people liked the initial Tweet. X people liked; correlates to Y amount of weeks waited.
 
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Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
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Keep in mind that "made" includes things like Onin picking Robin/Shulk/Joker versus acola in Grand Finals and getting destroyed, so some characters get boosted by desperation picks/pockets etc.
 
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