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Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

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  • Total voters
    586

Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
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Apr 26, 2016
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Sweden
Everyone seems to forget that Corrin and Bayonetta also got buffed really hard over the game's patch history.
Corrin's most recent buff was back in 2020, it's been almost 4 years since she last was buffed. I guess the first impression of Ultimate Corrin was really bad, huh?

Regarding character attachment, I think for some characters people really like the character and feel dedicated to making them work (like with many Sora players). Whereas with some other characters few people play them because of attachment to their games. How many play ROB because of Stack-Up or Gyromite? How many play G&W because of G&W games, Wii Fit because of Wii Fit games, etc etc.

As a fan of Castlevania games, I initially considered maining Richter, but I quickly realized that he didn't fit my playstyle much at all. I think for most tournament players, playing a character that fits your playstyle is more important than you having an attachment to the games.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
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Writing Team
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8,330
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Icerim Mountains
If Wolf is like a sword then Young Link is like a spacie lol swear his arrows are as annoying as Falco Laser.
 
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Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
2,250
Location
Sweden
Snake is looking like a top 3 character based on that MU chart (I'm going to assume that characters he didn't list are +1 or better). Seems a tad too optimistic to me (especially Steve).
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
14,936
Location
Colorado
I think Snake's probably a top 5 character at this point. He has really good tools to deal with some top tier threats like Corrin and Cloud- if you believe they're top tiers. He's one of those characters that it feels like the devs just gave everything to. His upB doesn't cause freefalling and has armor so he can recover high to avoid disadvantage. He might have trouble chasing opponents offstage but they gave him nikkita for that. He might have trouble landing kill setups but they gave him the best killing Utilt in the game. He has amazing zoning/stage control but also a really fast boxing game. He likes to trade but is also one of the heavier characters. He just outclasses characters like the Links. What were the devs thinking?
 

williamsga555

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
251
Location
Japan
They were thinking that he's got bottom 3 overall mobility when you take all aspects into consideration and pretty bad approach options. Now don't get me wrong, Snake usually doesn't need to approach because his zoning is so potent, but it means that getting an early stock lead is much more important to Snake than most other characters in the roster. It's hard for Snake to play from behind if the opponent is willing to commit to playing keep-away.

However, most players in general are not willing to commit to that style, so we're not seeing it that often. I still think Snake would be a very strong character even if the average player were willing to try running with the lead against him, but he's far from a flawless top tier. His mobility and approach tools are bad bad, he needs the opponent to try and engage with him (or be incapable of dealing with his zoning tools, either or).
 

Rizen

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They were thinking that he's got bottom 3 overall mobility when you take all aspects into consideration and pretty bad approach options. Now don't get me wrong, Snake usually doesn't need to approach because his zoning is so potent, but it means that getting an early stock lead is much more important to Snake than most other characters in the roster. It's hard for Snake to play from behind if the opponent is willing to commit to playing keep-away.

However, most players in general are not willing to commit to that style, so we're not seeing it that often. I still think Snake would be a very strong character even if the average player were willing to try running with the lead against him, but he's far from a flawless top tier. His mobility and approach tools are bad bad, he needs the opponent to try and engage with him (or be incapable of dealing with his zoning tools, either or).
I disagree with him having bottom 3 mobility. upBs that do not case freefalling are extremely valuable and underrated burst options. He can frequently avoid the ledge disadvantage state by recovering high. Like I said, he might have trouble chasing opponents down except they gave him a remote control smash attack that can be canceled at any time. He also has a good dash attack. Mobility rarely matters to Snake in the first place unless he's playing someone with an absorber like G&W. I do think he has a few slight disadvantage MUs but he has great tools against 95% of the cast.
 

williamsga555

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I'm not disagreeing about his up-b being a very important part of his kit, but there's absolutely nothing "burst" about it, it's a slow and committal move without much mixup until cancelled (frame 47 at the earliest). Again, it's a great move, and important for his mobility, but it ain't a burst option by any means and that's fine!

Nikita is crazy against off-stage opponents, sure, but it's no substitute for chasing characters playing keep-away on stage. Nikita is not a good neutral tool. Characters on-stage have a very easy time avoiding or blocking it, there are just too many options at their disposal for something as reactable as Nikita, and it certainly doesn't get Snake any closer to closing the gap if he needs to chase them down.

Relooking at his data on the cast rankings, bottom 3 was an overexaggeration, but not by that much. His mobility is truly awful, especially ground-to-air (say, for example, needing to deal with platform camping?). He has no drift, slow aerial acceleration, and a full hop lower than Doc. Dash attack is good burst but pretty unsafe on block. Otherwise his initial dash is nothing special and full dash is the same as Corrin/Ivysaur/Peach/Daisy. His mobility as a whole is bad, but...

...again, completely agreed that his mobility problems usually aren't a big deal for him. His zoning and boxing are both top class so it only really matters if he needs to chase someone down, which is rare -he has to have a stock deficit against a player who will actually commit to stalling him out, and even then it's not like that's just an easy win condition or anything.

Snake's a very very strong character, I completely agree in thinking that he is a very strong character with tools for basically any matchup. But I think it's a competitive disservice to just throw our hands up in the air and say "well he's busted I guess there's nothing to exploit against him." His approach options are pretty weak and he can't chase down platform camping effectively, so he's not completely flawless. Yes, that requires getting a notable lead in the first place, but it's better than nothing!
 

NotLiquid

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,346
Been a bit quiet lately, but if anyone didn't catch COST 2024 over the weekend, we saw a pretty spectacular Losers Run from Lima, who got knocked down in round 3 of Winners by Wildz. He managed to run it all the way back into Grand Finals against Onin, taking out Dabuz in the process alongside some players that looked especially strong during the event like Chase, Geist, and getting the runback on Wildz. He managed to reset against Onin and ultimately won the tournament. This would've been a B+ tournament, though MkLeo dropped out.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
Results for COST 2024

1. Lima :ultbayonetta:
2. Onin :ultsteve:
3. Dabuz :ultrosalina: :ultolimar:
4. Chase :ultpalutena: :ultsteve: :ultpyra:
5. Candle :ultolimar:
5. Wildz :ultkazuya:
7. IcyMist :ultsamus:
7. Geist :ultbayonetta:
9. Doorstop :ultzss:
9. ATATA :ultness:
9. BeastModePaul :ulthero:
9. MKBigBoss :ultrob:
13. EKING :ultpacman: :ultrob:
13. NoTag :ultmario:
13. loaf :ultwario:
13. Free KayFlock :ultzelda:

Results for Texas Reverie 2024

1. SHADIC :ultcorrinf:
2. MuteAce :ultpeach:
3. DJDon :ultalex: :ultgunner:
4. Yalmanac :ultpeach: :ultdaisy:
5. TeriTea :ultpiranha:
5. Atomic :ultrob:
7. Beastly :ultdiddy:
7. Spritzy :ulttoonlink:
9. z3 :ultyounglink:
9. ToasT :ultjoker:
9. Lisp :ultenderman:
9. PatToo :ultrob:
13. Tenni :ultpokemontrainer:
13. Maple :ultjigglypuff::ultyounglink:
13. Skeleton :ultkazuya:
13. Gelato :ultken:

SHADIC is notably making a comeback after his underperformances at LTC and GOML, winning both Dreamhack Dallas and Texas Reverie. I'm certainly expecting Sparg0 to bounce back too at Smash Factor 11. Lima is looking like the pretty clear #2 Bayo in the world rn, with wins on Shuton, Zomba, MuteAce, Onin, Asimo, Dabuz, Peabnut and Kola this season.
 
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The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,214
CEO 2024 Top 8 (B+ Tier Event)

Winner's
Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultalph: vs Kola:ultroy:
BeastModePaul:ulthero: vs Riddles:ultkazuya::ult_terry:

Loser's
Kobe:ultyounglink: vs Goblin:ultroy:
Jahzz0:ultken: vs omega:ultjoker:
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,936
Location
Colorado
CEO 2024 Top 8 (B+ Tier Event)

Winner's
Dabuz:ultrosalina::ultalph: vs Kola:ultroy:
BeastModePaul:ulthero: vs Riddles:ultkazuya::ult_terry:

Loser's
Kobe:ultyounglink: vs Goblin:ultroy:
Jahzz0:ultken: vs omega:ultjoker:
It must be a blue moon; YL actually made it to top 8 for once. He has a decent path to victory too. All this is my opinion as a YL player: YL goes even with Roy. YL has pretty good tools for walling rushdowns. He goes even with Kazuya and does well vs fighting game characters. If Kazuya plays the game he wins, his reward on hit is so high, but YL has really good camping tools to keep him from playing the game. He probably goes even with Olimar. IDK about Rosa. Joker and Hero are problems though; he loses those MUs. Joker does Joker things just as well as YL does YL things and Joker kills much earlier. Hero's bounce shuts down 3 of YL's 4 special moves and accelerate makes the MU bad too. TBH I don't think YL will win. He's not good enough.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
It must be a blue moon; YL actually made it to top 8 for once. He has a decent path to victory too. All this is my opinion as a YL player: YL goes even with Roy. YL has pretty good tools for walling rushdowns. He goes even with Kazuya and does well vs fighting game characters. If Kazuya plays the game he wins, his reward on hit is so high, but YL has really good camping tools to keep him from playing the game. He probably goes even with Olimar. IDK about Rosa. Joker and Hero are problems though; he loses those MUs. Joker does Joker things just as well as YL does YL things and Joker kills much earlier. Hero's bounce shuts down 3 of YL's 4 special moves and accelerate makes the MU bad too. TBH I don't think YL will win. He's not good enough.
Is the MU even between YL and Olimar? I say this because Dabuz destroyed Kobe with Olimar, not with Rosa, one of which was a three stock. I can't tell if it's a matchup thing or a large skill gap, but it seemed like a lot of YL's projectiles were not beating out the Pikmin.

Anyway results for UltCore the Third (A+ Tier)

1. Hurt :ultsnake:
2. Raru :ultluigi:
3. Yoshidora :ultyoshi:
4. Asimo :ultryu:
5. Yamanaction :ultsteve: :ultroy:
5. Shirayuki :ultinkling:
7. Karaage :ultfalcon:
7. Toriguri :ultbanjokazooie:
9. Rarikkusu :ultfalco:
9. Yone_pi :ultpichu:
9. Carmelo :ultsteve: :ultpyra:
9. Akakikusu :ulthero4:
13. Masha :ultwolf:
13. Ryuoh :ultdiddy:
13. Midorun :ultpit: :ultdarkpit:
13. kept :ultvillager: :ultisabelle: :ultdiddy:
17. Tsubaki :ultjoker:
17. Eik :ultpeach:
17. Taikei :ultsonic:
17. Levi :ultinkling:
17. Lax :ultchrom:
17. alice :ultroy: :ultkazuya:
17. DIO :ultsnake:
17. M0tsunabE :ultfalco:
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Location
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Is the MU even between YL and Olimar? I say this because Dabuz destroyed Kobe with Olimar, not with Rosa, one of which was a three stock. I can't tell if it's a matchup thing or a large skill gap, but it seemed like a lot of YL's projectiles were not beating out the Pikmin.
Yeah I saw that. Kobe was acting like he was just learning the MU. He got destroyed the first game but adapted better the next two. Olimar is one of very few characters who can match YL's neutral but there are ways to outcamp Olimar. Kobe used too many bombs, which are YL's slowest projectile. If YL is in front of Olimar he wants to just spam fire arrows. If one hits YL can chain it into aerials. If YL uses bombs he wants to only throw them strait down at Olimar otherwise he'll get outspammed. YL can also jump over Pikmin and angle the boomerang down to hit Olimar. Kobe stood strait in front of Olimar with bombs and took a ton of damage. YL's Nair is a really good tool in this MU. It's f4 with 6f of landing lag and creates a long lasting hitbox around YL's lower body that can press through Pikmin. It's a great approach and landing tool. I saw one instance where Kobe Daired oncoming Pikmin; that just bounces YL up and gets him nowhere while taking chip damage. He should stick with Nairs.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Aug 24, 2018
Messages
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Top 8 for Patchwork 2024 (A Tier)

Winners

SHADIC :ultcorrinf: vs Kola :ultroy:
Wrath :ultsonic: vs MuteAce :ultpeach:

Losers
Jahzz0 :ultken::ultryu: vs Monte :ultgnw: (Set already happened and Monte won)
Zomba :ultrob: vs Peabnut :ultmegaman: (Set already happened and Zomba won)
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Messages
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Colorado
Sonix, Tweek, Leo, Maister and Marss all did a collective tier list together similar to how the official tier list works
Here's also a picture
CDN media
This is one I can agree with more with the usual exceptions. Pikachu is the least deserving top tier character ever. I think people underestimate the value of weight. On paper Pika looks incredible with excellent advantage, disadvantage and neutral states but that's also balanced by him being extremely light. Pika's really good but he doesn't have the outrageous strengths of characters like Steve or Sonic.
I can see Aegis falling to third. They're still really good but people have gotten a lot better at exploiting their recovery. Sonic has really blasted his way into the top tier meta. I agree G&W isn't top 5 (but maybe these top players are just "biased" against him :p ) and Joker's still top tier above him. People have this weird idea if a character isn't used for a while that they're somehow a worse character. This relates to my flavor of the month theory. Sometimes a character just runs their course and people lose interest. Lucina's a good example of this. It doesn't mean the character's bad.
Ike remains criminally underrated. I don't see how people can put Corrin in A tier and Ike all the way down in D when they have similar gameplans. No I'm not saying Ike's as good as Corrin but swords in general are very powerful in the meta. Ike and Corrin have a lot of similarities both with big swords and mediocre mobility. Granted Corrin's pin does a lot to negate her mobility issues but Ike's not that much worse. I'd put him in B- tier. If you remember, Corrin was also ranked really low and had very little rep until Shadic and Neo started getting good.
Pichu's too low. Very similar case to Ike and Corrin: how can Pikachu be S tier and Pichu be D+ tier when their game plans are so similar. Pichu should be much higher.
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
S Factor 11 Top 8 (S+ Tier)

Winners
SHADIC :ultcorrinf: vs Gackt :ultness:
ShinyMark :ultpikachu: vs Many :ultsteve:

Losers
Cosmos :ultmythra: (Lost to Gackt) vs Sonix :ultsonic: (Lost to ShinyMark)
Maister :ultgnw: (Lost to ShinyMark) vs Sparg0 :ultcloud: (Lost to Cosmos)
 

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,214
S Factor 11 Top 8

Winner's
Gackt:ultness: vs SHADIC:ultcorrinf:
Shinymark:ultpikachu: vs Many:ultsteve:

Loser's
Cosmos :ultmythra: vs Sonix:ultsonic:
Maister:ultgnw: vs Sparg0:ultcloud:


If Gackt loses to SHADIC, then Shinymark has a big shot in winning this event (I think, not sure what his set record vs Shadic is).

(CRAP BEATEN TO THE PUNCH LMAO)
 
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Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
S Factor 11 Top 8

Winner's
Gackt:ultness: vs SHADIC:ultcorrinf:
Shinymark:ultpikachu: vs Many:ultsteve:

Loser's
Cosmos :ultmythra: vs Sonix:ultsonic:
Maister:ultgnw: vs Sparg0:ultcloud:


If Gackt loses to SHADIC, then Shinymark has a big shot in winning this event (I think, not sure what his set record vs Shadic is).

(CRAP BEATEN TO THE PUNCH LMAO)
Since SHADIC became a top 10 calibur player, their set history is 1-1. SHADIC won Santa Paws, ShinyMark won at Diamond Dust. Both were in Winners Finals sets funnily enough.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,936
Location
Colorado
It would be funny if Pikachu won this right after I said he was undeserving to be top tier. My money's on Sonix though. I think he's got this this time.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
Results for Smash Factor 11 (S+ Tier)

1. ShinyMark :ultpikachu:
2. Sonix :ultsonic:
3. Gackt :ultness:
4. SHADIC :ultcorrinf:
5. Sparg0 :ultcloud:
5. Many :ultsteve:
7. Cosmos :ultpyra:
7. Maister :ultgnw:
9. SuperDog :ultmario:
9. MkLeo :ultjoker: :ultpyra:
9. Big D :ulticeclimbers:
9. Chag :ultpalutena: :ultminmin
13. WaKa :ultluigi:
13. Asimo :ultryu:
13. Nair^ :ulthero2: :ultridley:
13. Guilheww :ultkirby:
17. Lima :ultbayonetta:
17. Skyjay :ultincineroar:
17. Capitancito :ultgunner:
17. Stronghold :ultmario:
17. Zomba :ultrob:
17. AlexDisC :ultsonic:
17. AndresFn :ultken: :ult_terry: :ultryu:
17. MKBigBoss :ultrob:

People such as Glutonny, ApolloKage, AlanDiss and MuteAce all did poorly, with them getting in a range of 49th-25th.
 

Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 26, 2016
Messages
2,250
Location
Sweden
I don't see how people can put Corrin in A tier and Ike all the way down in D when they have similar gameplans.
I think the main difference is that Corrin's advantage state is significantly better than Ike's. Ike hits you once but then you can often get back to neutral, Corrin hits you and then combos you, or ledgetraps, or juggles you. Corrin without her strong combo and juggle game would be mid tier at best. That's kind of where Ike is, but Ike also has a noticeably worse disadvantage state.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
4,459
More major results

Seibugeki 17 (A Tier)
1. TamaPDaifuku :ultbayonetta:
2. Shuton :ultpyra: :ultolimar:
3. Fui :ultyoshi:
4. Huto :ultwario:
5. Gachipi :ultlucario:
5. Toriguri :ultbanjokazooie:
7. tameigo :ultrob:
7. M0tsunabE :ultfalco:
9. kept :ultvillager: :ultisabelle:
9. Gorioka :ultjoker:
9. Eik :ultpeach:
9. Harasen :ulticeclimbers:
13. Yamanaction :ultsteve:
13. uame :ultolimar:
13. Mairudona H.O. :ultdk:
13. Leaf :ultrobin: :ultcloud:
17. Urusaki :ultness:
17. yuzu :ultrosalina:
17. Reno :ultbyleth:
17. Ryopei :ultsnake:
17. Akakikusu :ulthero4:
17. Lax :ultchrom: :ultsora:
17. sssr :ultrob:
17. Teru :ultfox:

Hurt and KEN noticeably underperformed at this event, with Hurt getting 49th and KEN getting 33rd.

CDN media

These are all the characters that have won a major for this LumiRank season, as well as the biggest events that they've won.
 
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Rizen

Smash Legend
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May 7, 2009
Messages
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Location
Colorado
Good day for all the pikachu haters (me)
To be fair, this is the best Pikachu's ever done. I swear Pika wouldn't have won if I didn't say that! But seriously, Shinymark has been on fire lately. He also won the pre-Smash Factor 11 tournament.

There's a lot to talk about. This has also been possibly Ness' best placement ever. I don't think anyone expected Gackt to get that far. And who's this Many player, who shows up out of nowhere and gets 5th with Steve. This is pretty good evidence Steve's the best character in the game.

Sonix again barely falls short. It's kind of heartbreaking. What's important to remember is even though Sonix doesn't get 1st he still have far better consistency than the players he loses against. Sonix has amazing consistency getting 2nd at all these big events when even Miya gets the occasional 7th place.

Spargo's back but didn't reclaim his crown. Neither did Shadic. This proves yet again it is hard to be consistent at Ultimate. It shows that for both players and characters. There isn't really one single character dominating everything, not even Steve. Ultimate is probably the most balanced smash game ever.

I think the main difference is that Corrin's advantage state is significantly better than Ike's. Ike hits you once but then you can often get back to neutral, Corrin hits you and then combos you, or ledgetraps, or juggles you. Corrin without her strong combo and juggle game would be mid tier at best. That's kind of where Ike is, but Ike also has a noticeably worse disadvantage state.
Ike can still combo off of Nair and Dtilt. He also has a bigger sword than Corrin. Ike's advantage state is really good. It's really hard to get around Ike when recovering, being ledge trapped or juggled. I agree Corrin's the better character but not by as much as people think.
 
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Hippieslayer

Smash Ace
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Aug 12, 2008
Messages
954
Location
Azeroth
Glutto when he doesn't know what he is doing really doesn't know what he's doing and isn't the best at adapting mid set in such situations. Capitancit0 vs Glutto reminded me of Tilde vs Glutto. In both cases Glutto just kept falling for the same stuff over and over. Glutto from the beginning used to play kind of reckless, and you really can see that side of him as a player when he really lacks matchup experience. He just keeps banging his head against a wall. He's held back by Wario too, but at the same time he IS Wario and Wario is unique enough -because of his peculiar mobility- that there is no similar char he could swap to. Heard he's training Snake. I think it takes time to get really good with Snake. Don't think anything will come from that.

Capitancit0 is really good though, I hope he makes top 8 soon. His Gunner is so much better than anyone elses that people have no way of being ready.

All in all this was a nice tournament. I think people are too negative when they describe the meta. Its really not that bad.
 
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Idon

Smash Legend
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Miyamoto Iori
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Ike can still combo off of Nair and Dtilt. He also has a bigger sword than Corrin. Ike's advantage state is really good. It's really hard to get around Ike when recovering, being ledge trapped or juggled. I agree Corrin's the better character but not by as much as people think.
insert size joke here*

Corrin makes significantly better use of their disjoints, a nair that hits both sides and comes out faster, a fair that is faster and safer, a bair that not only has a huge hitbox but also acts as a mobility tool to make it even safer, and that's not even mentioning the movement options gained from pin.
I'd also like to dispute "it's really hard to get around ike" when his air mobility is a lot more committal and if Ike misplays he's in a worse off spot than Corrin is generally.
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Aug 24, 2018
Messages
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He's held back by Wario too, but at the same time he IS Wario and Wario is unique enough -because of his peculiar mobility- that there is no similar char he could swap to. Heard he's training Snake. I think it takes time to get really good with Snake. Don't think anything will come from that.
Yeah, I agree. Snake takes a lot of effort to pilot effectively. It's not like Hurt was this godlike player right off the bat, he did intense amounts of grinding on Smashmate for a while and then did really well at Kagaribi. ApolloKage also took a long time to get good with Snake. Snake sounds like a hard character to secondary and feels very different to Wario. I hope it works out and he manages to get a good Snake for the Steve, Sonic and Kazuya MUs but I don't have much faith.
As for the whole idea of Wario being super unique with his air mobility, would :ultyoshi: be the character that is most similar to Wario and suit Gluto?
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
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Messages
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insert size joke here*

Corrin makes significantly better use of their disjoints, a nair that hits both sides and comes out faster, a fair that is faster and safer, a bair that not only has a huge hitbox but also acts as a mobility tool to make it even safer, and that's not even mentioning the movement options gained from pin.
I'd also like to dispute "it's really hard to get around ike" when his air mobility is a lot more committal and if Ike misplays he's in a worse off spot than Corrin is generally.
You can't crossup Ike's Nair either; it hits all around him then sets up for combos. Ike has a very similar gameplan to Corrin in that respect. Ike's Bair is better than Corrin's and it's generally underrated. Ike's Bair is f7 and -6 on shield where Corrin's Bair is F13 and -8 on shield. It's a surprisingly good move. Ike's Fair is huge, although weak. He also has very strong ledge trapping. Ike's hard to get around in disadvantage due to the magnitude of his hitboxes.

To reiterate, no, I'm not saying Ike's as good as Corrin but he is a underestimated character. If Ike hits you he'll probably hit you at least once more. His sideB recovery is actually very hard to punish and bypasses the ledge if used high enough. Ike has a good amount going for him. He certainly doesn't belong with low tiers like KRool (who has crippling weaknesses).
 

Hydreigonfan01

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Eazy Freezie's Placement Percentages for the LumiRank 2024.1 Season
CDN media

And here are the rises and falls compared to the last season


So uh, let's talk about :ultdk:, as the character has been more relevant then ever, leading to a DK Renaissance.
 
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Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
451
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:ultdk: becoming more of a relevant heavy to the meta than Bowser was not something I expected, but it does fit the evolution of Ult. The meta favors characters with strong win conditions and advantage states, and DK is the definition of that with his grab combos. Bowser in comparison may have a more solid kit and better disadvantage, but he doesn't really have any crazy kill confirms outside of N-Air to B-Air which means Bowser players will end up relying on killing off of stray hits more often than not, and as a big body in 2024 Ultimate that is REALLY bad. DK still suffers strongly from being a big body and having a bad disadvantage but his playerbase has pushed the advantage state very hard to fit the current meta and they have seen quite a lot of success this year for it.
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
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Eazy Freezie's Placement Percentages for the LumiRank 2024.1 Season
CDN media

And here are the rises and falls compared to the last season


So uh, let's talk about :ultdk:, as the character has been more relevant then ever, leading to a DK Renaissance.
This backs up several things I've said. First off this is not a definitive chart for how good characters are but it does give a good idea how characters stack up with higher consideration for non-top player placements. It's not only possible but frequent that a top player's skill carries certain characters higher than most players could take them; good examples of this are Skyjay with Incineroar and Big D with Ice Climbers. On the other end of this it's also possible for really good characters to have little or no top player representation. Palutena is an excellent example. It makes me really wonder how well she'd be doing if Nairo wasn't banned. A few things this shows: Aegis is not falling off despite losing their top reps like Spargo and neither is Joker. They're still good as ever. So is Roy. Like I said, Miya's a top 5 player and G&W isn't a top 5 character. Light's also carrying Fox a bit. Shinymark's carrying Pikachu.

On the subject of DK, and this also shows one of the flaws with this system for ranking characters, it's probable that DK got a lot of placements outside the top cut like top 32 but not top 8 or placements at smaller events. He's an excellent offensive character but probably has the 2nd worse disadvantage state in the game (after Ganon). He can power his way through the lower part of the bracket yet can't consistently hold his own in the upper part. Still this is not bad for DK; it's an indication that we should take him at least a bit more seriously. It really goes to show how a strong advantage stage is a better thing to have than a strong neutral. This is why Kazuya is doing so much better than Young Link.
 
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