Official Competitive Character Impressions 2.0

[Frihetsanka]

Everyone seems to forget that Corrin and Bayonetta also got buffed really hard over the game's patch history.

Corrin's most recent buff was back in 2020, it's been almost 4 years since she last was buffed. I guess the first impression of Ultimate Corrin was really bad, huh?

Regarding character attachment, I think for some characters people really like the character and feel dedicated to making them work (like with many Sora players). Whereas with some other characters few people play them because of attachment to their games. How many play ROB because of Stack-Up or Gyromite? How many play G&W because of G&W games, Wii Fit because of Wii Fit games, etc etc.

As a fan of Castlevania games, I initially considered maining Richter, but I quickly realized that he didn't fit my playstyle much at all. I think for most tournament players, playing a character that fits your playstyle is more important than you having an attachment to the games.

 

[Sucumbio]

If Wolf is like a sword then Young Link is like a spacie lol swear his arrows are as annoying as Falco Laser.

 

[Sucumbio]

Snake (2024) Current Thoughts:

@/ApolloKage

After this tour of Japan he's had some crazy good mu experience.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Snake is looking like a top 3 character based on that MU chart (I'm going to assume that characters he didn't list are +1 or better). Seems a tad too optimistic to me (especially Steve).

 

[Rizen]

I think Snake's probably a top 5 character at this point. He has really good tools to deal with some top tier threats like Corrin and Cloud- if you believe they're top tiers. He's one of those characters that it feels like the devs just gave everything to. His upB doesn't cause freefalling and has armor so he can recover high to avoid disadvantage. He might have trouble chasing opponents offstage but they gave him nikkita for that. He might have trouble landing kill setups but they gave him the best killing Utilt in the game. He has amazing zoning/stage control but also a really fast boxing game. He likes to trade but is also one of the heavier characters. He just outclasses characters like the Links. What were the devs thinking?

 

[williamsga555]

They were thinking that he's got bottom 3 overall mobility when you take all aspects into consideration and pretty bad approach options. Now don't get me wrong, Snake usually doesn't need to approach because his zoning is so potent, but it means that getting an early stock lead is much more important to Snake than most other characters in the roster. It's hard for Snake to play from behind if the opponent is willing to commit to playing keep-away.

However, most players in general are not willing to commit to that style, so we're not seeing it that often. I still think Snake would be a very strong character even if the average player were willing to try running with the lead against him, but he's far from a flawless top tier. His mobility and approach tools are bad bad, he needs the opponent to try and engage with him (or be incapable of dealing with his zoning tools, either or).

 

[Rizen]

They were thinking that he's got bottom 3 overall mobility when you take all aspects into consideration and pretty bad approach options. Now don't get me wrong, Snake usually doesn't need to approach because his zoning is so potent, but it means that getting an early stock lead is much more important to Snake than most other characters in the roster. It's hard for Snake to play from behind if the opponent is willing to commit to playing keep-away.

However, most players in general are not willing to commit to that style, so we're not seeing it that often. I still think Snake would be a very strong character even if the average player were willing to try running with the lead against him, but he's far from a flawless top tier. His mobility and approach tools are bad bad, he needs the opponent to try and engage with him (or be incapable of dealing with his zoning tools, either or).

I disagree with him having bottom 3 mobility. upBs that do not case freefalling are extremely valuable and underrated burst options. He can frequently avoid the ledge disadvantage state by recovering high. Like I said, he might have trouble chasing opponents down except they gave him a remote control smash attack that can be canceled at any time. He also has a good dash attack. Mobility rarely matters to Snake in the first place unless he's playing someone with an absorber like G&W. I do think he has a few slight disadvantage MUs but he has great tools against 95% of the cast.

 

[williamsga555]

I'm not disagreeing about his up-b being a very important part of his kit, but there's absolutely nothing "burst" about it, it's a slow and committal move without much mixup until cancelled (frame 47 at the earliest). Again, it's a great move, and important for his mobility, but it ain't a burst option by any means and that's fine!

Nikita is crazy against off-stage opponents, sure, but it's no substitute for chasing characters playing keep-away on stage. Nikita is not a good neutral tool. Characters on-stage have a very easy time avoiding or blocking it, there are just too many options at their disposal for something as reactable as Nikita, and it certainly doesn't get Snake any closer to closing the gap if he needs to chase them down.

Relooking at his data on the cast rankings, bottom 3 was an overexaggeration, but not by that much. His mobility is truly awful, especially ground-to-air (say, for example, needing to deal with platform camping?). He has no drift, slow aerial acceleration, and a full hop lower than Doc. Dash attack is good burst but pretty unsafe on block. Otherwise his initial dash is nothing special and full dash is the same as Corrin/Ivysaur/Peach/Daisy. His mobility as a whole is bad, but...

...again, completely agreed that his mobility problems usually aren't a big deal for him. His zoning and boxing are both top class so it only really matters if he needs to chase someone down, which is rare -he has to have a stock deficit against a player who will actually commit to stalling him out, and even then it's not like that's just an easy win condition or anything.

Snake's a very very strong character, I completely agree in thinking that he is a very strong character with tools for basically any matchup. But I think it's a competitive disservice to just throw our hands up in the air and say "well he's busted I guess there's nothing to exploit against him." His approach options are pretty weak and he can't chase down platform camping effectively, so he's not completely flawless. Yes, that requires getting a notable lead in the first place, but it's better than nothing!

 

[NotLiquid]

Been a bit quiet lately, but if anyone didn't catch COST 2024 over the weekend, we saw a pretty spectacular Losers Run from Lima, who got knocked down in round 3 of Winners by Wildz. He managed to run it all the way back into Grand Finals against Onin, taking out Dabuz in the process alongside some players that looked especially strong during the event like Chase, Geist, and getting the runback on Wildz. He managed to reset against Onin and ultimately won the tournament. This would've been a B+ tournament, though MkLeo dropped out.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for COST 2024

1. Lima
2. Onin
3. Dabuz
4. Chase
5. Candle
5. Wildz
7. IcyMist
7. Geist
9. Doorstop
9. ATATA
9. BeastModePaul
9. MKBigBoss
13. EKING
13. NoTag
13. loaf
13. Free KayFlock

Results for Texas Reverie 2024

1. SHADIC
2. MuteAce
3. DJDon
4. Yalmanac
5. TeriTea
5. Atomic
7. Beastly
7. Spritzy
9. z3
9. ToasT
9. Lisp
9. PatToo
13. Tenni
13. Maple
13. Skeleton
13. Gelato

SHADIC is notably making a comeback after his underperformances at LTC and GOML, winning both Dreamhack Dallas and Texas Reverie. I'm certainly expecting Sparg0 to bounce back too at Smash Factor 11. Lima is looking like the pretty clear #2 Bayo in the world rn, with wins on Shuton, Zomba, MuteAce, Onin, Asimo, Dabuz, Peabnut and Kola this season.

 

[The_Bookworm]

CEO 2024 Top 8 (B+ Tier Event)

Winner's
Dabuz vs Kola
BeastModePaul vs Riddles

Loser's
Kobe vs Goblin
Jahzz0 vs omega

 

[Rizen]

CEO 2024 Top 8 (B+ Tier Event)

Winner's
Dabuz vs Kola
BeastModePaul vs Riddles

Loser's
Kobe vs Goblin
Jahzz0 vs omega

It must be a blue moon; YL actually made it to top 8 for once. He has a decent path to victory too. All this is my opinion as a YL player: YL goes even with Roy. YL has pretty good tools for walling rushdowns. He goes even with Kazuya and does well vs fighting game characters. If Kazuya plays the game he wins, his reward on hit is so high, but YL has really good camping tools to keep him from playing the game. He probably goes even with Olimar. IDK about Rosa. Joker and Hero are problems though; he loses those MUs. Joker does Joker things just as well as YL does YL things and Joker kills much earlier. Hero's bounce shuts down 3 of YL's 4 special moves and accelerate makes the MU bad too. TBH I don't think YL will win. He's not good enough.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

It must be a blue moon; YL actually made it to top 8 for once. He has a decent path to victory too. All this is my opinion as a YL player: YL goes even with Roy. YL has pretty good tools for walling rushdowns. He goes even with Kazuya and does well vs fighting game characters. If Kazuya plays the game he wins, his reward on hit is so high, but YL has really good camping tools to keep him from playing the game. He probably goes even with Olimar. IDK about Rosa. Joker and Hero are problems though; he loses those MUs. Joker does Joker things just as well as YL does YL things and Joker kills much earlier. Hero's bounce shuts down 3 of YL's 4 special moves and accelerate makes the MU bad too. TBH I don't think YL will win. He's not good enough.

Is the MU even between YL and Olimar? I say this because Dabuz destroyed Kobe with Olimar, not with Rosa, one of which was a three stock. I can't tell if it's a matchup thing or a large skill gap, but it seemed like a lot of YL's projectiles were not beating out the Pikmin.

Anyway results for UltCore the Third (A+ Tier)

1. Hurt
2. Raru
3. Yoshidora
4. Asimo
5. Yamanaction
5. Shirayuki
7. Karaage
7. Toriguri
9. Rarikkusu
9. Yone_pi
9. Carmelo
9. Akakikusu
13. Masha
13. Ryuoh
13. Midorun
13. kept
17. Tsubaki
17. Eik
17. Taikei
17. Levi
17. Lax
17. alice
17. DIO
17. M0tsunabE

 

[Rizen]

Is the MU even between YL and Olimar? I say this because Dabuz destroyed Kobe with Olimar, not with Rosa, one of which was a three stock. I can't tell if it's a matchup thing or a large skill gap, but it seemed like a lot of YL's projectiles were not beating out the Pikmin.

Yeah I saw that. Kobe was acting like he was just learning the MU. He got destroyed the first game but adapted better the next two. Olimar is one of very few characters who can match YL's neutral but there are ways to outcamp Olimar. Kobe used too many bombs, which are YL's slowest projectile. If YL is in front of Olimar he wants to just spam fire arrows. If one hits YL can chain it into aerials. If YL uses bombs he wants to only throw them strait down at Olimar otherwise he'll get outspammed. YL can also jump over Pikmin and angle the boomerang down to hit Olimar. Kobe stood strait in front of Olimar with bombs and took a ton of damage. YL's Nair is a really good tool in this MU. It's f4 with 6f of landing lag and creates a long lasting hitbox around YL's lower body that can press through Pikmin. It's a great approach and landing tool. I saw one instance where Kobe Daired oncoming Pikmin; that just bounces YL up and gets him nowhere while taking chip damage. He should stick with Nairs.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Results for CEO 2024 (B+ Tier)

1. Kola
2. Riddles
3. BeastModePaul
4. omega
5. Kobe
5. Dabuz
7. Goblin
7. Jahzz0
9. Spickles
9. HENRY LUMA
9. Anathema
9. Mr. E
13. Phuzix
13. Epic_Gabriel
13. MVD
13. Aaron

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Patchwork 2024, an upcoming major, has just released its seeding.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Top 8 for Patchwork 2024 (A Tier)

Winners
SHADIC vs Kola
Wrath vs MuteAce

Losers
Jahzz0 vs Monte (Set already happened and Monte won)
Zomba vs Peabnut (Set already happened and Zomba won)