My guess is that PGR has Leo #1 and OrionRank has acola #1 end of year, but I think acola only has to win one of the remaining big tourneys in the year (SWT or Panda Cup) to take that #1 on both
That's what I think as well. Of course, if acola wins SWT and then goes 9 on Panda Cup while MkLeo gets second at SWT and wins Panda Cup then MkLeo would be #1 on PGR.
acola is incredible. It's a shame that a lot of this is lost on viewers because he plays Steve. If you can look beyond the Steve shenanigans, there's some truly inspired gameplay there.
For sure. It's also interesting to notice the differences in how different Steve mains play the character.
Once again, I ask the question: If Pyra/Mythra aren't top 3, then who is?
I don't think the top 5 is clear right now, but the following characters could have a decent shot at top 3, depending on who you ask: Steve, Kazuya, ROB, Sonic, Joker. Some would say Pikachu but I don't agree with that. Both Steve and ROB have better results on OrionStats, and while ROB may not win many majors, you'll often see players such as Zomba and Anathema do well at big tournaments. Zackray's ROB was a menance too back when he actively played him. Steve in top 3 shouldn't be too controversial at this point in time.
Kazuya in top 3/5 is probably more controversial, although there are a few top players (such as DDee and Marss, and) who put him in top 3-5 in their tier lists (Mr. E put him #2), and Riddles made a really optimistic MU chart and his results as solo Kazuya have been great lately. It's unclear whether this will last or not but Kazuya does seem to have great strengths and his weaknesses aren't being exploited enough right now to keep him out of top tier. Things may change in the future, though.
As for Sonic, at this point it's somewhat hypothetical. Sonic seems to generally do better at top level than mid level, and one of his best players (Wrath) isn't actively playing right now. Tweek put him #3 in his May tier list (though that was before the rise of Steve), DDee put him #1 recently, ShinyMark #5, Marss #4 (and Roy #3, so that's another character in contention for top 3 I suppose, although I'm very skeptical of Roy in top 3), Glutonny #3, Fatality #2. So quite a few top players seem to think very highly of Sonic, at least, and theoretically speaking Sonic can get a lead and run away with it. Sonic's results aren't bad either with Sonix and KEN doing well with the character.
As for Joker, I personally don't think he's top 3, but MkLeo's old Joker results do say quite a bit, and even without MkLeo Joker is #9 on OrionStats. If MkLeo picked up Joker again and started dominating even harder than he is now then that would be an indication that Joker is top 3 (though not guaranteed since MkLeo is amazing). Even without MkLeo, Arsene is kind of busted. Joker is definitely harder to play though than Aegis and is worse online, so at mid level of play Aegis is likely better. At top level I don't think it's too implausible that Joker is better.
So, if at least three of the following are better than Aegis at a top level, then Aegis are not top 3: Steve, Kazuya, ROB, Sonic, Joker. There might be other characters as well that could be better than Aegis (like Roy), though that's less likely. Oh hey, and some might argue that Pikachu is top 3, I suppose. I don't believe he is, though, not for a tournament tier list anyways.
I mean, if you're going to try and ignore the reams of data supporting her efficacy in all levels of play top to bottom you need to formulate an actual substantial argument.
Tier lists are not made for all level of play, they are made for the top level. Some characters probably do better at top level of play than mid level of play. Some top players who did
not put Aegis in top 3: Mr. E, Rivers, Glutonny (though I suspect his top 10 might not be ordered, unless he thinks Dark Samus is #1, which I guess isn't too implausible given that he lives close-ish to Sisqui), Fatality. ESAM recently mentioned in a stream that he now thinks Aegis are top 5 at best. Now, these are outliers, and most top players seem to put Aegis in top 3, but they're not always put in top 3, and MkLeo/Sparg0 mostly dropping the character and Cosmos having mixed results doesn't help her case. Shuton is very consistent though, although he also uses Olimar.
I don't think that people would have such a problem with Steve being so powerful if he was fun to watch. Right now there is the combination of near brawl MK viability combined with brawl olimar gameplay. It is a shame too, as a few tweaks to certain moves and mechanics could really make Steve shine for both the opponent and viewers, especially at lower levels of play, where the issue is more prevalent.
I don't really get why some people say Steve isn't fun to watch. Sure, he mines a bunch, but aside from that Steve does a lot of interesting stuff, such as footstool Anvil kills, interesting block placements, and so on. And he's not close to Brawl Meta Knight, I don't even think he's particularly close to Smash 4 Bayonetta anymore. I do think he's #1 still, but he might have a few losing matchups (maybe) and a whole bunch of Even matchups. Smash 4 Bayonetta had maybe a handfull of Even matchups and likely no losing matchups, Brawl Meta Knight didn't even have any Even matchups, he won every matchup in the game (aside from the ditto, obviously). Steve is likely #1 in the game (though theoretically Kazuya/Sonic could also be, although result-wise Steve is #1 right now), but he's not nearly as dominant as Brawl Meta Knight or Smash 4 Bayonetta. Quite a few people don't even consider Steve top 3!
As for steve dittos, I think they are one of the more interesting in the entire game due to the complexity of the character.
That being said watching Onin get destroyed was soul-crushing.
I agree, Steve dittos are very funny. They didn't even
mine that much! And yeah, it was a bit unfortunate for Onin that he got destroyed so hard, but Onin was playing really well in the tournament overall and a 2nd place at a supermajor is still really, really good. Losing to the #2 player in the world (some would argue #1) is also not a bad loss at all.
It doesn't really change the fact that Steve is overturned, and generally unpleasant to fight against for anyone who isn't a top level player, where the Minecrafter not causing any problems ( complaints here are generally overblown). The lower levels of play are also important to consider when thinking about the balance of the game. If there is a loss of interest at the lower levels, it will affect everything above it in time too, and it does appear that Steve has a negative impact on viewership, among other things. Prevention tends to be better than cure. Obviously kneejerk bans are not the correct approach, but the matter will have to be addressed sooner or later for the sake of the long term health of the game.
I agree that Steve is overtuned, although he's not the only character that is. I also agree that many people find him unpleasant to fight, but that's also true for characters like Kazuya, Luigi, Olimar, Snake, and Sonic. Steve is interesting in that some people actually quite enjoy fighting Steve, I've seen people say he's one of the most fun to fight against, while others hate it.
As for viewership, they had around 24k viewers at the end of the losers finals set, and around 24k during the Grand Finals. Granted, a Steve was part of the losers finals as well, but it doesn't seem like people left en masse? I think the issue largely stems from a vocal minority that makes people
think Steve is boring to watch, and since humans are susceptible to peer pressure they may echo that sentiment. I used to think so too, but after I realized that Steve was likely going to be a staple in the meta I decided to embrace it, learn him myself and learn what he can do. After understanding how Steve works better I find him more enjoyable to watch (and really fun to play, which is kind of ironic since I wasn't a fan of Steve being added to Ultimate, hah). Perhaps content creators should make like, basic guides on how Steve works and some of his common tech, so people would enjoy watching him more?
I think the solution is to try to be more positive about Steve (and other characters): I don't think we can realistically change the ruleset to hurt Steve (well, getting rid of Kalos might help somewhat, which should probably be done anyways, see Dabuz's video on it). I also don't think a ban is likely or particularly justified right now (it's mostly the same six Steves getting results right now, and it's mostly two getting top 8 results at majors). Some people's negativity towards Steve (and Kazuya, and Sonic, etc) probably hurt the scene more than the characters do. But at the end of the day I don't think there's too much we can do: If some people truly hate watching these characters or playing against these characters, then they might be in a rough situation since I doubt much is going to be done against them (aside from maybe changing the stagelist). Oh, and North America should change to character before stage like most of Europe did, that way you don't have to ban Final Destination against people with a secondary Kazuya, and you would be able to pick Final Destination versus such people as well.
vs MuteAce 
