Competitive Brawl Rule Set (NOT OFFICIAL)

[Ref]

This looks good but:

- Any suicide KOs on the final stock resulting in sudden death will result in a loss for the user of this tactic. If it would be a suicide KO and the match screen shows a decisive winner, go with that instead. A Bowsercide final KO results in a win for the Bowser player.

is the only thing I disagree with... I feel Ganon should too get the win if he manages to do this on the final stock...

And the damage taken is kind of in disfavor to heavy characters. I would suggest just starting a new match if it is a percent and stock tie...

 

[LuigiKing]

D3 infinite banned? This.... this means I CAN PLAY LUIGI AGAINST D3 NOW!!! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

*does a happy dance*

 

[Mortimer]

This cancels out because if Snake lives longer per stock, then he'd have advantage by a full stock if this continued happening, meaning % wouldn't even have to be brought into the equation.

I'm wondering about this rule, too. If it's just an arbitrary way to determine winner that's fine, but if it's based upon being "fair" then it's off the mark.

Snake may live to higher percentages per stock but die at the same time as MK every time. In the end, MK will have dealt more damage than Snake even though the entire match was even in kill-rate. Result: Win for MK, even if Snake is ahead on the current stock.

 

[XienZo]

No, there are suicide klaws off stage too, in which the opponent has no chance to make back to the stage.

Yeah, the technical traps. Like if you start on a moving/diapperaing platform. But thats like Kirby waiting at the edge, except the platform won't stay there forever and its kinda obvious if they're setting that up.

This cancels out because if Snake lives longer per stock, then he'd have advantage by a full stock if this continued happening, meaning % wouldn't even have to be brought into the equation.

More % doesn't mean you live longer time-wise. Fatter characters get comboed more easily, which normally balances out the less knockback. Its already balanced, so adding that could potentially disrupt it and give even more advantage to MK...

 

[rehab]

Unless TO's decide to be like "screw Umbreon I like the old ruleset better! infinites regal!"

Wouldn't that be amazing.

 

[Flayl]

Yeah, the technical traps. Like if you start on a moving/diapperaing platform. But thats like Kirby waiting at the edge, except the platform won't stay there forever and its kinda obvious if they're setting that up.

I'm talking about literally jumping off the edge of a stage and klawing them in midair, in such a way that it's impossible for them to DI back to the stage. It's really the same as ganoncide.

 

[Xiivi]

I'm wondering about this rule, too. If it's just an arbitrary way to determine winner that's fine, but if it's based upon being "fair" then it's off the mark.

Snake may live to higher percentages per stock but die at the same time as MK every time. In the end, MK will have dealt more damage than Snake even though the entire match was even in kill-rate. Result: Win for MK, even if Snake is ahead on the current stock.

If Snake was ahead in percentage on the current stock he would have won anyway.

 

[XienZo]

I'm talking about literally jumping off the edge of a stage and klawing them in midair, in such a way that it's impossible for them to DI back to the stage. It's really the same as ganoncide.

Its still Bowser's trap, right?

But yeah, in that circumstance, it would be like Ganon's side-B, so we might have a problem there.

 

[Flayl]

Just give ganon the win and I'll shut up

 

[XienZo]

If Snake was ahead in percentage on the current stock he would have won anyway.

Either way, same kill rate but with more damage to Snake per stock equals all such ties given to MK.

 

[Asdioh]

I like this list, only issue I have is RC being banned but I can understand the reasoning behind it.

I can't. This stage is like the Melee equivelant of Delfino. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Delfino at least somewhat random, in terms of the order in which the settings appear?

Rainbow Cruise is the same every time.

Some of the other stages also should be unbanned, but there's no point in going into it right now.

But like you said, this should be about skill. Well, I think reacting to stages, and changing your playstyle depending on the stage/what the stage does...I think there's a bit of skill involved in that.

For clarification, all of the stages banned were banned for a reason. For example, on Norfair, Pikachu can quick attack from edge to edge and remain invincible vs most characters for literally the entire match. Is that stalling? Maybe. What if he's attacking once every 2 minutes and wins on 20%, is it still stalling? When does it become stalling?

There's too much room for debate, to difficult to objectively determine for one side over the other. It's easier to see it for the stupid stage it is and to ban it.

It is a lot of banned stages, I agree. Write a letter to Nintendo telling them to play test their games before release.

No.

Wasn't one of your rules "no being a douche?"

Abusing invincibility for 8 minutes fits under "being a douche"

If this happens, you are allowed to beat the **** out of your opponent.

It's not the stage's fault, it's the player.

No, there are suicide klaws off stage too, in which the opponent has no chance to make back to the stage.

Agreed, the suicide rule that favors Bowser is incredibly biased.

If you are stupid enough to fall for a suicide KO against a character that you should know has a suicide ko,

YOU LOSE.



And like other people have said before, the "tie breaker" based on damage taken is messed up. blahblahblah heavy characters healing character blahblah

 

[Mortimer]

If Snake was ahead in percentage on the current stock he would have won anyway.

Nope. It would go into sudden death, bringing the "damage taken" win condition into play.

 

[x9whitey9x]

I don't think Luigi's Mansion or Norfair should be banned, both should be CP.
The Mansion doesn't offer huge advantages, except for Metaknight. Then again, he does well on all stages so that point is moot. If you play Meta, ban it.
Norfair's hazards are not a big deal. Lava from the sides? Move away. Big lava? Get in the safe box, airdodge, roll, spotdodge, grab a ledge, jump over the lava. It's NOT that big a deal. Lava flares? Move away for 5 seconds.

 

[XienZo]

If you are stupid enough to fall for a suicide KO against a character that you should know has a suicide ko,

YOU LOSE.

The problem is that Ganon's side B works the same but its treated differently.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Where people are allowed to be on stage needs to be dictated.

Most of the stages are "unfair".

Sudden Death, the default mechanic for settling a draw is "flawed"

Items make the game "less competitive".

Yeah, probably a good idea to go play a better fighting game, where these issues don't exist.

 

[cman]

Yeah, the technical traps. Like if you start on a moving/diapperaing platform. But thats like Kirby waiting at the edge, except the platform won't stay there forever and its kinda obvious if they're setting that up.

Can't bowser follow someone off the stage, then if he misses the claw, recover normally? Essentially making it a low risk enormous reward situation.

And you could say airdodge, but the bowser could bait the air dodge, then punish for the win. Basically, if bowser screws up, it resets to neutral, but if the other player messes up, then he loses the game?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

for the most part i have no problem with the rules other than, some stages that are banned, why ban Junglejapes why?, and ganoncide not being counted as a winner.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Can I have some reasons why Japes, Cruise, (Norfair I can sorta see) are banned? Nothing random happens on Japes and nothing random happens on Cruise. Norfair has some dumb hazards, but it could be allowed I guess.

All suicide moves, including bowser klaw, ganoncide, wariocide, dddcide, and kirbycide, should depend on the percent.

 

[Ref]

I don't think Luigi's Mansion or Norfair should be banned, both should be CP.
The Mansion doesn't offer huge advantages, except for Metaknight. Then again, he does well on all stages so that point is moot. If you play Meta, ban it.
Norfair's hazards are not a big deal. Lava from the sides? Move away. Big lava? Get in the safe box, airdodge, roll, spotdodge, grab a ledge, jump over the lava. It's NOT that big a deal. Lava flares? Move away for 5 seconds.

Ever seen someone camp on Luigi's mansion / stall? I throw you up and unless you mastered teching every time I get free jab locks. Pillars will refresh my moves. I will hit you as you stand above the floor you can't drop through. I won't let you break the house by hitting you through the floor too...

Basically there are too many factors in Luigi's mansion to make it legal.

Norfair is a huge stage and it has stage hazards. Problem is the numerous edges that give invincibly lead to extreme ledge camping. Huge blast zones... very Small stage with many platforms...

There are reasons for it to be banned...

Japes running water and edges and high blast zones plus klaps could have lead to this banned.

Cruise I feel can be legal... but it has points where some blast zones are way too small and it does have some walls. Many obstacles can lead to unfair recovery advantages...

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't one of your rules "no being a douche?"

Abusing invincibility for 8 minutes fits under "being a douche"

If this happens, you are allowed to beat the **** out of your opponent.

It's not the stage's fault, it's the player.

Agreed, the suicide rule that favors Bowser is incredibly biased.

As much as I'd like to agree with you about beating people up, we could at least pretend to be civilized.

The Bowser rule is only there because letting people fight for controller slots is dumb and wastes time.

 

[Flayl]

Where people are allowed to be on stage needs to be dictated.

Most of the stages are "unfair".

Sudden Death, the default mechanic for settling a draw is "flawed"

Items make the game "less competitive".

Yeah, probably a good idea to go play a better fighting game, where these issues don't exist.

All of these were in Melee too, although I guess banning peach bomber stalling wasn't widespread.

 

[Asdioh]

Where people are allowed to be on stage needs to be dictated.

Most of the stages are "unfair".

Sudden Death, the default mechanic for settling a draw is "flawed"

Items make the game "less competitive".

Yeah, probably a good idea to go play a better fighting game, where these issues don't exist.

Don't hafta exaggerate. It's not THAT bad. Items? Come on. That's like saying Melee is bad because it has items. Or because it has stages like Icicle Mountain.



Oh yeah Umbreon, I forgot to say that I liked SOME of the changes you suggested. Like banning Dedede's infinite, and some of the new banned stages are good.

 

[metroid1117]

YES NO JAPES!!! (Ike mains rejoice ) Great ruleset, I have no qualms whatsoever.

 

[Flayl]

The Bowser rule is only there because letting people fight for controller slots is dumb and wastes time.

But it's a suicide KO.

Either give ganon the win too, or make bowsercide = loss. Actually the best would be allowing damage taken to be the judge just like time out, don't see why baiting opponents into a trap should count for a loss.

 

[Tristan_win]

I can understand all the ban picks but Rainbow Cruise.

That level is a great counter pick stage for a good sum of the characters by not having that you are disarming everyone who doesn't have a favorable match up against them and also buffing the ones who live off of just their ground game.

 

[Ref]

Ganondorf should win too because the move is limited off stage, if he does it over and over on the ledge call a judge and count him out for excessive ledge stall...

However if he recovers and you happened to be there, guess what you just won because he had to recover... People will make sure they see that murder choke and run to the ledge and get grabbed to win... Thus you just gave Ganon a disadvantage on his final stock recovery. You are forcing him to up b and possibly get punished.

Basically make Ganondorf win when suiciding too...

 

[Flayl]

Do ganons really recover with sideB that often?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Yay you posted your ruleset Yes it's a pretty good ruleset too. I like the stages you picked. I totally agree with you about having Lylat as a CP. The stage's tilting does truely eliminate some skill... and the rest of your CPs are good to me . However there may be a couple stages you have banned that I think should be CP, but i dont feel like using time right now to check that

Btw if I or someone i know were to make a tourny offline or online, and they were to use your ruleset, (may be they'd make 1 edit but they'd mention it), then what should we call it? Umbreon's ruleset? Umbreon and inputer's rules? XD

Infinite Cape Glitch is banned or no? And stalling is not banned or it is?

Good work peoples and thx in advance!

 

[Ref]

It is always an option, taking away a fair recovery option is pretty painful...

 

[aeghrur]

What? Lylat isn't a neutral anymore? T_T OMG, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Why?
Green greens should at least be counterpick/banned. So yeah, you need one of those sections Umbreon.

 

[Delta_BP26]

What's the point of a new ruleset instead of a revised one? The greater variety of stages was better before. Really, all you added was the D3 standing infinite ban and some stages were reasonably banned. Also, the Ganondorf thing is COMPLETELY unfair.

 

[Daimonster]

Sexiest ruleset ever! One problem, the even amount of starters. I believe ps1 is a decent enough starter to move over to the neutrals imo. Thus leaving us with 5 starters.

 

[aeghrur]

Sexiest ruleset ever! One problem, the even amount of starters. I believe ps1 is a decent enough starter to move over to the neutrals imo. Thus leaving us with 5 starters.

Lylat>PS1. Yes.

 

[Flayl]

It is always an option, taking away a fair recovery option is pretty painful...

See the thing is jumping off to recieve a dark dive really hurts >_>

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Ever seen someone camp on Luigi's mansion / stall? I throw you up and unless you mastered teching every time I get free jab locks. Pillars will refresh my moves. I will hit you as you stand above the floor you can't drop through. I won't let you break the house by hitting you through the floor too...

Basically there are too many factors in Luigi's mansion to make it legal.

i think it should still be set as cp/ban.

Norfair is a huge stage and it has stage hazards. Problem is the numerous edges that give invincibly lead to extreme ledge camping. Huge blast zones... very Small stage with many platforms...

There are reasons for it to be banned...

im indifferent to norfair, but i understand your points.

Japes running water and edges and high blast zones plus klaps could have lead to this banned.

only characters who cp this are to limit vertical KOing a bit anyway. klaptraps come at a set interval, and as long as your not too low in the water inbetween the main platform they technically stay out of the way.

Cruise I feel can be legal... but it has points where some blast zones are way too small and it does have some walls. Many obstacles can lead to unfair recovery advantages...

not like MK cares where you go he has no disadvantage stage lol. same goes for any other character with good recovery anyway. the walls are also only there for a set amount of time, the longest being on the ship but its not that hard to say away from right?

 

[MK26]

Stage List:

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Counter
Brinstar
Castle Siege
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1

dont you need an odd number of neutrals for stage striking?
Since you have so few stages anyways, why not just have a legal/banned list, and not worry about neutrals and counterpicks?

Banned
Corneria
Distant Planet
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens
Pokémon Stadium 2
Skyworld

Can you give reasoning for banning these stages?

- Any suicide KOs on the final stock resulting in sudden death will result in a loss for the user of this tactic. If it would be a suicide KO and the match screen shows a decisive winner, go with that instead. A Bowsercide final KO results in a win for the Bowser player.

that makes no sense. The second sentence, that is. If its a suicide KO, make it a draw and a 1-stock sudden death, regardless. If you do a suicide KO in the sudden death, you lose. Its that simple

- If the timer runs out, the victor is determined first by stock and then by percentage. In the event of a sudden death, both players are to suicide IMMEDIATELY. No fighting with bombs @ 300. At the results screen, regardless of what the screen says, the player with the higher DAMAGE TAKEN is the loser. No exceptions. In the result of a tie, the match will be discarded and played over, same characters and stage. For teams, if this should ever happen, add the damage taken instead for both teams.

so a tie in percentage is broken by total damage taken over the match? again, i would do a 1-stock sudden death if the total damage is tied as well.

 

[Greenpoe]

Sexiest ruleset ever! One problem, the even amount of starters. I believe ps1 is a decent enough starter to move over to the neutrals imo. Thus leaving us with 5 starters.

Agee'd. Pokemon Stadium 1 is an extremely neutral stage, and is far more neutral than Lylat.

 

[salaboB]

But it's a suicide KO.

Either give ganon the win too, or make bowsercide = loss. Actually the best would be allowing damage taken to be the judge just like time out, don't see why baiting opponents into a trap should count for a loss.

Since we're talking Bowser, won't damage taken in an even matchup always go against him? >.> (Unless the Bowser player manages to get gimped every stock)

 

[Asdioh]

Do ganons really recover with sideB that often?

I can imagine that people would be more aggressive in their edgeguarding if they KNEW Ganon could not do Side B, lest he lose.

Therefore, this rule is stupid.

And Kirbycides/Dededecides take some intelligence (or stupidity on the opponent's part) to pull off.

If you're going to impliment this rule, then I say that killing with Snake's Up Tilt when you're both on your last stock results in a loss for Snake.

Because it's broken.

^ that rule is more fair than the "bowser's suicide is the only winnAr" one.

Banned
Corneria
Distant Planet
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens
Pokémon Stadium 2
Skyworld

Can you give reasoning for banning these stages?

-I can see why Luigi's is banned. That's just a messed up stage.
-I always assumed Distant Planet should be banned, because it's so weird, but the only truly "broken" thing about it is chaingrabbing off the side. Does that even work well on this stage? I guess you could be knocked into the giant monster thingy and insta-die, when you would normally be able to recover. That's kinda broken.
-Skyworld....I don't know. It's hard to say exactly why it should be banned, it's another one of those weird stages.
-The others should all be counterpick. Corneria is iffy.

 

[Flayl]

Since we're talking Bowser, won't damage taken in an even matchup always go against him? >.> (Unless the Bowser player manages to get gimped every stock)

Yes, it will. The bowsercide would basically pay off if you got your opponent to a decent % before your opponent KO's you to your last stock.