Collection Room: Sonic Video Archive & Critique

[JamesUK7]

GF wonf(sonic) vs addy(captain falcon/D3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gin6xr3nh5k

Dude that was really fun to watch! Good stuff!

 

[Wonfi]

Dude that was really fun to watch! Good stuff!

ty dude there is more videos from me and other good players :D

 

[J.APS]

GF wonf(sonic) vs addy(captain falcon/D3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gin6xr3nh5k

que buen sonic compadre (Y)

 

[Camalange]

Top 8 @ ECT - Losers Bracket
LoCal | Camalange () vs. iQHQ | Elijah (/)

Shouldn't have lost that first round. Took too long to download his ROB. Round 2 was downloaded. Round 3 I lost to Janky Kong :/

Would love to hear from you guys what I could've done better. Already rewatched it a couple times myself.

Overall I'm pretty happy with how I played as it was a good set on both our parts, but I just feel I could've taken it if not for customs... I can't wait for those to be buried in Hell.

Also, peep that flawless ISDJ > Fair execution and conversion at 41:55.

 

[jordanm43444]

Got some sets finally, the 3rd one im going to link was just dumb though...

Winners Round 1
EUA | Biolizard vs Flamjam
https://youtu.be/rn_H2CDPI3I?t=4h32m33s

Losers Round 2
EUA | Biolizard vs RDE | Edinbulba
https://youtu.be/rn_H2CDPI3I?t=5h19m53s

Losers Round 4
EUA | Biolizard vs Strawhatter
https://youtu.be/rn_H2CDPI3I?t=5h57m55s

 

[Kupo Rose]

Videos are no split? Uffft...


edit:

Grand Finals
Kupo vs Yackabean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=07h00m09s

Losers Finals
Kupo vs PidgeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=06h34m32s

__________

Kupo vs Yackabean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=06h18m00s

Kupo vs Muppet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=05h48m20s

Kupo vs JP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=05h11m44s

...

Doubles Grand Finals
Kupo + DG vs Yackabean + PidgeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=01h34m53s

Losers Finals
Kupo + DG vs Kid Wobbles + RiskyR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=01h05m43s

Winners Finals
Kupo + DG vs Yackabean + PidgeY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn_H2CDPI3I#t=18m15s

That took too long.

 

[Wonfi]

WF Wonf(sonic) vs Dozi(bowser)
Bowser in WF lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JafJR2eAgWc

 

[J.APS]

WF Wonf(sonic) vs Dozi(bowser)
Bowser in WF lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JafJR2eAgWc

1° match
2° stock: pero que hermoso papá! (Y) / that's beautiful (Y)
3° stock:.. DAIR SPIKEEEEEE!!!!! / *no translation needed*
buenos matches (Y)

 

[Camalange]

Say hello to @ Kupo Rose , your new video archive organizer!

Thanks again for doing this. It's been long overdue.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Sonic Orochi vs Zura (2-0)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zehs6ykFwAg

Guy had some connection problems with his 3DS, so, yeah. SC do Dair spike too.

Sonic Orochi vs Player 7 (0-2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APWSmni2Rrw

Damned SD. Thought I did pretty well, considering he's the best player around here AND it's Sheik..

Sonic Orochi vs Lukinhas (2-1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSB-VDGK8mw

Some nice SC to Dair spike setups in here. First match was totally botched, though.

Sonic Orochi vs Zero (2-3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxhCE1jPSRw

Many people considered this to be THE set on that tourney but them godamned SDs.. First match was lolz and SDing the last stock in the last match is just too cringeworthy. Need more OoS stuff when dealing with this MU, it seems.

 

[z7x9r0]

I've started playing Melee lately since I have not figured out what I need to do to improve in Smash 4. I go to other players in my area with the same main for advise but no one has been able to know what to say. I felt I need to change mains due to the amount of ending lag/cool-down and landing lag I get from Sonic's attacks. In Melee I know I can shield poke or L-Cancel my short hop attacks into another short hop attack (I believe it's called shuffling) onto my opponents shield to apply pressure, but in Smash 4 I have to be aware of the amount of landing lag my character has when attacking and how strong shields hold up against my attacks.

It almost feels like I have to take turns attacking because if I miss and the opponent uses shield then they attack right after to punish me for approaching. I also feel like some players I fight use for glory tactics - Be enough space away from your opponent and roll away often from afar. I know my dash attack is a great punish if they do this up close (long lasting hit box), but since they are far way usually I can't reach them in time to punish. If I try they will shield fast enough and punish me for approaching.

Here are some matches of mine that I've lost on stream with time-stamps:

• Sonic VS ZSS
  https://youtu.be/4BKyjj_Lgjo?t=1h25m12s

• Sonic VS Sheik
  https://youtu.be/uorYwE9SuAs?t=1h46m23s

• And an example of our grand finals players, which I have trouble playing against and can't figure out a way around their defensive play style:
  https://youtu.be/tj5XGw0Tfj0?t=2h32m27s

I really don't want to change mains, and I picked up a pocket Mario a while back because of Sonic's landing lag issues, but the defensive gameplay makes me feel I need a very defensive character or that I need to start playing the game differently overall. Please help if there is anything I am doing wrong. I don't want to give up on Smash 4 because I don't know what to do. Any advise on how to improve using Sonic?

• BONUS: Here's a match I actually did well, but I feel the other player made mistakes that I punished on to be honest. If he played more defensively I think I would have had trouble like I did above:
  https://youtu.be/tj5XGw0Tfj0?t=4m34s

 

[WrathTheHedgehog]

Well first off from what I have watched from that ZSS video you did A LOT of unsafe things like starting off that game with a dash attack that anyone can see coming. You also threw out random smash attacks when that was also unsafe. Thus thats why you lost your first stock to a back air. I say try using more safe moves in order to get a lead and then go for whatever risky stuff you want too. Also try Spinshotting and Instant Spindash jumping they can really help a lot.

 

[z7x9r0]

I know the inputs for Spinshots but I feel it should only be used as a recovery method (Down-B + Up-C-Stick while still holding B). I remember learning it and got shield grabbed a lot online if used as an approach option. I saw a video for ISJ-ing but IIRC it is a frame perfect attack which I will try to take time to learn and have in muscle memory.

Now for safe moves, what would these be? Especially if they keep their distance away from you and roll/shield often.

And major thanks for watching the videos. Helps a lot when bad habits and possible choices are pointed out. :D

 

[WrathTheHedgehog]

Spin Dash is def one of the safest moves Sonic has. You can use down b or side b but imo Side B is better for getting combos and down b is better for spin shotting and linking into kills. Now for opponents who roll often just spindash because 75% of the time it will hit. and for shielding just spindash cancel into a grab. Also approaching with an aerial onto a shield will get you punished hard especially against ZSS and Sheik.

 

[z7x9r0]

Thank you. I really can see aerials being a bad choice against Sheik and ZSS since they can act quickly out of shield and punish. Does this mean we need to play campy in some match ups? And if we do Spin Dash or Spin Charge and the opponent counters with shield, do we make sure to not turn around in the opposite direction since the hitbox won't be active while turning around as a ball still.


Also for these type of players what is our best options?

https://youtu.be/tj5XGw0Tfj0?t=2h32m27s


Captain Falcon seems untouchable and Olimar seems to always put up a wall of Pikmin between him and his opponents. I don't have a Little Mac match but I keep fighting a guy that punishes all my attacks with his Smash attacks. I usually have to fight him with sheild grabs. Do us Sonic mains have another other options?


Oddly enough I have not played a Rosalina and Luma that give me trouble since I see other Sonics on online threads post how they have trouble against her. I usually run over to them and try to attack Rosa while pushing Luma away with areial beat downs. Usually works for me since the pressure is a bit much for the Rosa player to fight and react to appropriately.

 

[WrathTheHedgehog]

We do have too play campy in some MUs. Usually if an opponent counters my Spin Dash with a shield I usually retaliate with a Homing Attack to bounce off the shield or even hit them. Spring is also a good option when there are platforms to retreat too. Captain Falcon has a jab that stops spindash so whenever he does that I do one of two things. Run up to him with my shield and block all of his jabs then punish or homing attack over his jab. Captain Falcon isnt really hard to hit but if you get him offstage its most likely game over for the falcon. Olimar I kind of just charge straight through his pikmin with spin dash. Now if the olimar catches on and starts using f smash a lot I just rec spin shotting over his pikmin and then attack. As for Little Mac I say just camp him out. Approaching LM as sonic is not a good idea because every 5-10% we get he gets like 15-20% with no knockback from any of our moves. and yeah I do the same thing for Rosa. I just keep them sep so I can focus on attacking Rosalina and not have to worry about her jab and Lumas kill power

 

[Camalange]

@ Kupo Rose , your work is excellent. This thread is now truly a work of art.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Thanks Cammy!

Thread isn't completely finished yet, the main part is done though.

 

[Camalange]

Thanks Cammy!

Thread isn't completely finished yet, the main part is done though.

Take your time. I trust you, especially with the progress you've already made it's more than I could ever ask for.

 

[kj22]

bows down to kupo

Wow very well done. Wondering how you found videos of me I didn't even post o.o

 

[Camalange]

Everything from the patch records to the customizable organization of the charts oof I just can't

 

[Damandatwin]

Top 8 @ ECT - Losers Bracket
LoCal | Camalange () vs. iQHQ | Elijah (/)

Shouldn't have lost that first round. Took too long to download his ROB. Round 2 was downloaded. Round 3 I lost to Janky Kong :/

Would love to hear from you guys what I could've done better. Already rewatched it a couple times myself.

Overall I'm pretty happy with how I played as it was a good set on both our parts, but I just feel I could've taken it if not for customs... I can't wait for those to be buried in Hell.

Also, peep that flawless ISDJ > Fair execution and conversion at 41:55.

What did you ban before game 3? Just wondering because personally I will ALWAYS ban BF (and probably Dreamland as well); I just think Sonic performs the worst on those two stages considering how much some other characters (like DK, Sheik, Falcon, ZSS, Fox, etc.) get out of them. Admittedly this means I can't ban some of the jank (like DK on Halberd for example), but I mean sonic does OK with low ceilings IMO.

WF Wonf(sonic) vs Dozi(bowser)
Bowser in WF lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JafJR2eAgWc

Man you're good. I like how you dair into your spring, I've never considered doing that before.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Amazing work with the OP, @ Kupo Rose . Like, really, winning steak seal of approval.

 

[Camalange]

What did you ban before game 3? Just wondering because personally I will ALWAYS ban BF (and probably Dreamland as well); I just think Sonic performs the worst on those two stages considering how much some other characters (like DK, Sheik, Falcon, ZSS, Fox, etc.) get out of them. Admittedly this means I can't ban some of the jank (like DK on Halberd for example), but I mean sonic does OK with low ceilings IMO.

I banned Halberd since that would basically lead to insta-death. Dreamland wasn't out yet. Well, technically it came out that day but it was Day 2 of the tournament so obviously no DLC or anything was going to be downloaded that morning and implemented.

In that format, there was no winning with stages. Customs with that stagelist and only 1 stage ban? RIP. Literally can't win. I banned Halberd because it would greatly benefit ROB's beep-bop so it seemed like the most evil out of all the evils.

Sonic does alright with low ceilings but most characters outjank him. Rosa, Custom Kong, ROB, etc.

Dreamland kind of works for Sonic because you can shield camp on the top platform, get a shield grab, and Uthrow > Spring > Uair for a true combo into stupid early kill. Craftis showed me that and it's stupid effective.

I like how you dair into your spring, I've never considered doing that before.

It was actually easier to mash Dair repeatedly into spring in Brawl because the buffer was so lenient. Sonic would just like hover over the spring continuously Dairing into it.

Landing on a spring though is way more useful in this game because it gives you back your double jump and use of specials.

Amazing work with the OP, @ Kupo Rose . Like, really, winning steak seal of approval.

Bravo.

 

[Damandatwin]

Cool, maybe I don't need to ban dreamland then. And yeah in retrospect I agree Halberd is too jank vs DK (or even ROB really) not to ban. You were definitely in a rough spot with those stage bans.

 

[Camalange]

Cool, maybe I don't need to ban dreamland then. And yeah in retrospect I agree Halberd is too jank vs DK (or even ROB really) not to ban. You were definitely in a rough spot with those stage bans.

Fortunately with customs slowly becoming a thing of the past and new stage lists on the horizon, the future after EVO is bright.

 

[jordanm43444]

Oh **** Kupo took over this thread? (Guess I misheard what you meant by update the video thread on Sunday )

 

[Camalange]

Oh **** Kupo took over this thread? (Guess I misheard what you meant by update the video thread on Sunday )

Yeah, yo. Kupo is killin' it.

 

[jordanm43444]

Yeah, yo. Kupo is killin' it.

The formatting is sexy.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Guys. Like, stahp lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Hyfxaymlo#t=50m30s

^ GFs from a tourney I had on Sunday. I managed to reset the bracket but I proceeded to get bopped afterwards cause he pretty much had me downloaded after playing so many games.

Need halp against

 

[Camalange]

Guys. Like, stahp lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Hyfxaymlo#t=50m30s

No.

:3

^ GFs from a tourney I had on Sunday. I managed to reset the bracket but I proceeded to get bopped afterwards cause he pretty much had me downloaded after playing so many games.

Need halp against

I'm not good at advice vs. Yoshi, but...

Yoshi's jab can convert into a lot of stuff. Tilts, Smashes... But they're not always true combos so if you're doing things like trying to airdodge, you're only hurting yourself.

Example, at 1:01:40, you get jabbed, then whiff a nair, and get Dtilted into a tech chase scenario. No es bueno.

Also, chasing Yoshi would be beneficial. You should be spring chasing and covering options with Uair/Dair up high, or trying to Bair him when he's offstage.

I think you also fish for Usmash too much, which is really detrimental because it's already easy to punish since it's not really safe on block and horrible on whiff, but even if you land it, it won't kill until much later now because of the nerfs. There are a lot of times where you just charge Usmash and get punished for it, or try to challenge Yoshi's Dair and lose.

That Spin Charge chase at 1:00:10 was fresh though, dag.

At 1:00:59 you get a really high footstool but if you had tapped instead of flying so far, that could've been a free tech chase opportunity or guaranteed HA hit.

All in all, I'd say you just need more practice in it so you know when to approach. You respect Yoshi too much at times and it shows you're afraid to commit to anything. You let him land too easily and aren't applying nearly enough pressure as you could be, like when you ran away with round 1.

He got the download and basically adapted to your play faster than you could his.

 

[Kupo Rose]

Oh that footstool wasn't intentional lol.

I was Usmash happy cause I got kills with it against him at last month's tourney where I 3-0d him. Everytime I saw him tryin to recover I Usmash hoping to catch his double jump since he can't autosnap the ledge. Obv it didn't work this time ;-;

I never really attempted any spring chases cause from previous experience I just get Nair'd or worse Uair'd because of it. You're right I'm letting him land for free too much though and not giving any offstage pressure.

Cheers for looking into it Cam!

 

[Vex514]

Hey guys, I'd love some critique from my tournament tonight Any kind of advice would be nice! (Especially in regards to the ditto!)

Vex vs Eyejayy (Robin) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ1jZ2bsZ7Y&index=4&list=PLfsHddFGhhKj4devK7MgHmhJFrNRgZL9k
Vex vs TSB Nabbit (ZSS/Peach) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6BIVVR_Po&index=7&list=PLfsHddFGhhKj4devK7MgHmhJFrNRgZL9k
Vex vs Big Boss (Ike) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlVJrtw2lbU&index=9&list=PLfsHddFGhhKj4devK7MgHmhJFrNRgZL9k
Vex vs James (Luigi) WF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47-FiQC4Mxw&index=11&list=PLfsHddFGhhKj4devK7MgHmhJFrNRgZL9k
Vex vs LoF Blue (Sonic) LF https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhez46LQn8I&index=14&list=PLfsHddFGhhKj4devK7MgHmhJFrNRgZL9k

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Guys. Like, stahp lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2Hyfxaymlo#t=50m30s

^ GFs from a tourney I had on Sunday. I managed to reset the bracket but I proceeded to get bopped afterwards cause he pretty much had me downloaded after playing so many games.

Need halp against

Not really an advice but I ****ing hate that MU. It all boils down to whoever camps the most. If you camp well enough, you'll probably win (by timeout) as our options seem slightly better than Yoshi's. It's hella boring, but totally legal.. This stupid MU is the only one I'm considering having a secondary for, like, really. I'd rather have 10 Brawl Sonic dittos in a row than this.

Anyway, here are some matches from a small tourney we had last week. Also, player cam!

JULY, 9th.

Sonic Orochi vs Zero (2-0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUAUq8w1KSg

1st match was the closest I've ever had. Totally hype. Gfycat: http://gfycat.com/GoodnaturedOccasionalIndianrhinoceros

Sonic Orochi vs O Hobbit (2-0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqhgGbtmko

Sonic Orochi vs Lukinhas (1-3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk_IAlnOqYg

Sonic Orochi vs Player 7 (1-3)
http://www.twitch.tv/x_revolution/v/7151237?t=443m27s

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

All these matches had customs on but I didn't use them.


1.0.6
vs DJ Delta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEdxK9NhJ7c

vs Chef Pac/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=194VDAcK3O0

vs CaptAwesum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x553CjMJSEE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.0.9
Vs Ipod Max
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-qasBUidbs

vs SplashDamage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTCIbpONR7E

vs Siccarius
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l4IWYcAZZ4

vs Ice Arrow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O4y6nNfNyE

vs BloodCross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOWmfGH0JJ4

vs Pugwest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVlmM48R5rk

vs BloodCross
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRJEi03abIE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vs Ice Arrow//
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8sXfLFP66A

vs Fatal/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVCXqcAg5s0

 

[Damandatwin]

Just watched your WF set against BloodCross. I forgot about SD -> offstage dair...

 

[Camalange]

Thought I'd finally get to see what Orochi looked like, but then 480p...

 

[Spitfire16]

Everybody with their tournament videos and I'm just here in For Golry looking for killers. I'll be able to afford tourney trips one day.

Spitfire&QG() vs jkun&Zane()

Spitfire&AceKing() vs Aaron&ClydeU() Round 1

Spitfire&AceKing() vs Aaron&ClydeU() Round 2

Why am I such a scrub? :'(

On a serious note, that double Dair on the last one felt amazing.

 

[Syndralix]

So YouTube uploads directly from Smash are a thing now! Expect this thread to become a lot more active soon, starting with me. I'm mostly looking for critique on my fundamentals. So...critique away. And don't be afraid to tell me if I'm just not good; self-improvement starts with admitting that you suck. =P

(Before you ask, these are all from For Glory. Some of my mistakes may be attributable to lag spikes. >_>)

VS

VS

VS

VS

 

[Camalange]

So YouTube uploads directly from Smash are a thing now! Expect this thread to become a lot more active soon

Be afraid, @ Kupo Rose .

Be very, very afraid.