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Clarification on the Wobbles: IT WAS NOT BANNED FOR BEING GOOD

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
good mashers prevent this from working until ~50 maybe a bit less like ~45 or so which seems reasonable given how bad ic are in comparison to fox, sheik, marth, and falco anyways.

great mashers (azen, caveman, etc) prevent this from working until ~100 which completely nullifies this altogether.

the moral here is to learn how to break grabs.
 

IShotLazer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
361
Location
Falcon kick.
Wobbles never affected the tournament scene?
Apparently some people haven't seen a lot of videos that are out there when players clearly win due to wobbling E.X. cough HUGS and KEN both lost to it...
But ya tell wobbling doesn't affect the tournament scene to them. You know top players that I dunno probably would have place in the top?
If something ever does come along to be as bad as wobbling I know when I hold a tournament IT WILL be banned in any game. Infinites shouldn't exist PERIOD. "Just don't get grabbed". Oh thanks, that's easy since people that wobble clearly don't focus their entire game around grabbing. It can be done on any character so I don't have that freedom either.
Obviously I have a bias in me but I still think that as objective as things can get, wobbling should be banned as there is no means of actually getting out of it. I mean the Freeze Glitch is banned but the difficulty of that trick is actually higher than that of wobbles and in the end they both get the same job done... Not in teams.... but still.
The only infinites I know in brawl are extremely situation unlike wobbles so I can't see them being banned. I mean at that point it really is your fault...
 

Aesir

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Messages
4,253
Location
Cts inconsistant antagonist
Wobbles never affected the tournament scene?
Apparently some people haven't seen a lot of videos that are out there when players clearly win due to wobbling E.X. cough HUGS and KEN both lost to it...
But ya tell wobbling doesn't affect the tournament scene to them. You know top players that I dunno probably would have place in the top?
If something ever does come along to be as bad as wobbling I know when I hold a tournament IT WILL be banned in any game. Infinites shouldn't exist PERIOD. "Just don't get grabbed". Oh thanks, that's easy since people that wobble clearly don't focus their entire game around grabbing. It can be done on any character so I don't have that freedom either.
Obviously I have a bias in me but I still think that as objective as things can get, wobbling should be banned as there is no means of actually getting out of it. I mean the Freeze Glitch is banned but the difficulty of that trick is actually higher than that of wobbles and in the end they both get the same job done... Not in teams.... but still.
The only infinites I know in brawl are extremely situation unlike wobbles so I can't see them being banned. I mean at that point it really is your fault...
Your post structure is horrible just thought I'd throw that out there..>_> spacing it's not only important in just smash.

Wobbles isn't breaking the tourney scene wobbles would have won evo east if that was the case. But hey he didn't Chu would have won evo east but hey he didn't either. M2k won it, what does that tell you about wobbling?

Fact remains there hasn't been any consistent results to ban it, IC players aren't winning and beating top players.

Theres nothing wrong with infinites, because low and behold most infinites take several degree in skill to do them consistently. Comparing wobbling to the freeze glitch really isn't the same because they're completely different. The freeze glitch stalls the match and basically gives the other player no way of escaping. You can escape from wobbling, azens done it up to 100%.

If azen can do it I'm pretty sure anyone can. He may be azen but all he's doing is rotating and mashing buttons. just doing it really fast. >_>
 

IShotLazer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
361
Location
Falcon kick.
I know I'm just angry and stupid right now... I apoligize
I know wobbling hasn't been completely game changing and I'm just in a bad mood so I figured I'd take it out on mindless posting. Either way I shouldn't have.
.
.
But
.
.
I still don't like it.
Also I wasn't very clear on the azen excape up to 100%, so that does change somethings and gives the other player more control, which is where I think we should be aiming.
.
.
.
Again sorry I was being dumb, I'll go take it somewhere eles where no one cares XD.
*Goes to 4chan*
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Wobbles never affected the tournament scene?
Apparently some people haven't seen a lot of videos that are out there when players clearly win due to wobbling E.X. cough HUGS and KEN both lost to it...
But ya tell wobbling doesn't affect the tournament scene to them. You know top players that I dunno probably would have place in the top?
If something ever does come along to be as bad as wobbling I know when I hold a tournament IT WILL be banned in any game. Infinites shouldn't exist PERIOD. "Just don't get grabbed". Oh thanks, that's easy since people that wobble clearly don't focus their entire game around grabbing. It can be done on any character so I don't have that freedom either.
Obviously I have a bias in me but I still think that as objective as things can get, wobbling should be banned as there is no means of actually getting out of it. I mean the Freeze Glitch is banned but the difficulty of that trick is actually higher than that of wobbles and in the end they both get the same job done... Not in teams.... but still.
The only infinites I know in brawl are extremely situation unlike wobbles so I can't see them being banned. I mean at that point it really is your fault...
so far, if we use ken and hugs losing to wobbles as examples, we have two cases of wobbling directly influencing the outcome of the game in favour of the wobbler. and that's operating under the assumption that wobbles doesn't have the skill level required to beat either of them without it, which is in my opinion an insult to him because wobbles - with or without the infinite - is still certainly the second best melee ic player and undoubtedly a very, very high level player.
 

IShotLazer

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
361
Location
Falcon kick.
Wobbles is very good at the game I was never trying to insult him XD. I was just in a bad mood.
I'm sure that he himself would vouge that wobbling has definitely helped him along though and probably helped him win a couple tournies here and there. The matches I saw though were pretty bad though and I would say, with no insult of course, that wobbles did win because of wobbling and I guess proper spacing. Either way it is just an annoying technique that hasn't destroyed the game and I took it too far.
 

-BiGS-

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
6
Wobbles is very good at the game I was never trying to insult him XD. I was just in a bad mood.
I'm sure that he himself would vouge that wobbling has definitely helped him along though and probably helped him win a couple tournies here and there. The matches I saw though were pretty bad though and I would say, with no insult of course, that wobbles did win because of wobbling and I guess proper spacing. Either way it is just an annoying technique that hasn't destroyed the game and I took it too far.
Yeah, I almost don't understand what people have against it.. it's gay, but it doesn't do much. It's just a high percent kill opportunity, granted.. it's a grab. But, hell.. grabs combo to kills all the time. It IS ********, but I see no reason to ban it.
 

Shai Hulud

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,495
Location
Oregon
I tried playing wobble-heavy ICs for a while and while I could beat random bad people I still got ***** by good Peaches (and bad Peaches) and to a lesser extent Samus, Marth, and Fox players. Then again I'm not that good. But I've never heard of someone good losing to a bad ICs player who wobbled. Some particular matchups that were previously even or close to even (Sheik, Ganon, CF for example) shift to ICs favor when wobbling is allowed, but at best this moves ICs up a couple spots on the tier list.

There are a lot of mistakes in this game that can cost you a stock. Some of these cause you to lose a stock very fast (getting shine-spiked, fast-fallers getting grabbed near the edge by Marth, not DIing Jiggs' uthrow rest, etc.) while others take time (getting CG'd to death by Marth, wobbling). Wobbling is perceived as much more frustrating because it takes a long time to finish the stock and in the mean time you have virtually no chance of living. If Marth throws Falco off the stage you can try to get back but in reality if your opponent is good you are more than likely already dead. My point is that if you are grabbed by synched ICs at mid-high damage, you should consider your stock already over. You made a mistake and you got gimped.

This is a fairly situational gimping--people saying you shouldn't be able to convert stocks from grabs 100% of the time are highly exaggerating the situation. You can't compare the ICs grab game to any other character, because their range is garbage and they have to be synched up. If Marth, Fox, Sheik, or CF could wobble, yes it would be incredibly, unbelievably broken. But that's because it is much, much easier to land a grab with these characters than a synched grab with ICs against someone who actually knows what he's doing.

So there's not really anything unique about losing a stock at mid-high damage from a grab, except that the ICs can do it against every character and it's easy. However I think it's a mistake to ban something because it's easy, because even if wobbling were considerably more difficult, good players would be able to do it regardless. The difficulty of a technique really has no bearing on the technique's effectiveness unless the technique is extremely difficult, because otherwise people will master it anyway.

The real problem is that some people who aren't very good and don't know how to fight ICs find themselves getting ***** by bad ICs who wobble. At INN V last year playing friendlies I beat some people pretty badly who in all honesty were better than me at the time. But we were all relatively bad.

With wobbling, bad ICs **** bad anyone else (except Peach). And the majority of Smashers are relatively bad (mysef included), so it's not surprising they view this technique as incredibly broken when in reality they just don't want to implement the counterstrategies.
 

KishPrime

King of the Ship of Fools
BRoomer
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Jun 22, 2003
Messages
7,739
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Indiana
Because people are stupid. And you can only wiggle out under 50ish, and for some reason people think that you shouldn't die at 50% even though there are a million ways to combo/kill/shine people at 50% with other characters.
 
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