Choosing Your Starter: IKE take TWO

[Steeler]

good pits will know his ground game and know how to use those options

his Fsmash is fast

and his grabs don't suck he can chaingrab charizard I'm pretty sure

of course, but squirtle can easily overwhelm him on the ground due to the speed of his attacks and pit's below average grab.

he can chaingrab all three, or at least get fthrow to fsmash at low low percent

but that doesn't change the fact that the grabs themselves suck

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Pit ***** PT really really hard.

He might be one of the few characters I would call a hard counter.

 

[Steeler]

pit doesn't **** pt.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

pit doesn't **** pt.

Pit is just like PT there are about 3 good ones, if that.

 

[Bestiarius]

I mean, i wouldn't look forward to fighting a Pit, but he doesn't **** PT. On the topic of starters, since this thread is kinda about that, I'm gonna say Zard-Squirtle battery.

 

[Bomber7]

can flamethrower cancel out an arrow?

*I think Charizard or Squirtle would be a good way to start. Squirtle because you need some speed and agility and Charizard for durability and you stay away from Ivy for a long time.

 

[dextasmurf]

Pit doesnt **** PT but he counterz...yes flamethrower cancels arrows..Id say squirtle does the best..His speed ***** pit and he can combo...DONT BRING OUT IVEY cuzz we will just spam him to death and gimp him..Charizard gives pit a hard time if he knows wut he's doing...55:45 or 6-4 (meh on this) pit imo....Pits grab does suck its like the 3rd worse in the game or some ishh, but his pivot grab ***** it has like D3 range..Power shielding arrows does not wrk well vs a GOOD pit..He can hold his arrow for about 5-7sec and then manuever them...a good pit will read PS and punish with a grab...ur best bet is to mix it up with PS and Air dodges...and besides charizard i dont think PT has anything to stp edge camping from pit...

 

[Bomber7]

Pit doesnt **** PT but he counterz...yes flamethrower cancels arrows..Id say squirtle does the best..His speed ***** pit and he can combo...DONT BRING OUT IVEY cuzz we will just spam him to death and gimp him..Charizard gives pit a hard time if he knows wut he's doing...55:45 or 6-4 (meh on this) pit imo....Pits grab does suck its like the 3rd worse in the game or some ishh, but his pivot grab ***** it has like D3 range..Power shielding arrows does not wrk well vs a GOOD pit..He can hold his arrow for about 5-7sec and then manuever them...a good pit will read PS and punish with a grab...ur best bet is to mix it up with PS and Air dodges...and besides charizard i dont think PT has anything to stp edge camping from pit...

The stalling the arrow wouldn't make a difference as long as the PT doesn't shield early (or late). As long as the PT can react when the arrow is fired, then they have nothing to worry about.

 

[dextasmurf]

The stalling the arrow wouldn't make a difference as long as the PT doesn't shield early (or late). As long as the PT can react when the arrow is fired, then they have nothing to worry about.

SO wut ur telling me is that the PT has to have excellent reaction time?? how would he kno when the arrow is coming out if he cant predict it?? Pit has about 5 sec before the arrow fires on its own so Pit can rapid fire, charge fire, or turn left,right, up, down, then fire or do another combonation of the 4...and even if he shields the arrow if its not a Perfect shield ur shield is that much smaller which leads into nair which will shield poke....I understand wut u are trying to say but trust me stalling of the arrows DOES make a differnce...

 

[Steeler]

Pit is just like PT there are about 3 good ones, if that.

and i regularly play one of them, KY. pit doesn't **** pt. it's probably like slight advantage pit just because squirtle goes even/slight advantage and the other two lose slightly. like usual.

 

[Vermy]

I vsd my country's best Pit in a crew battle yesterday. Took him to last stock. It'll be uploaded really soon, and it shows a lot of things PT can take advantage of. Squirtle start. No qualms about it. Its not easy. Sacing means so much more in this matchup than you'd think. Pits advantage, 60-40, maybe a little worse.

 

[Toby.]

Y'know, I think S.D or Scoot might be in the running for best Pit as well vermy

Jei is pretty good, but his metaknight is absolutely terrible

 

[Vermy]

oh absolutely. His mk is baaaaad. No dair camping, no dtilt, no upB oos.

Should stick to Pit and Yoshi imo.
He has real big problems with GaW tho, so he tried to gay mk, God bless him.

I'll be vsing Scoot and Shaya when they come to stay at mine for Rocky so i'll record some more matches. Some recent matches PT vs Dedede/Snake/Falco/MK will be nice, so i'll get some of those up for the Matchup Showcase thread.

 

[MaTA]

I'll usually start charizard just get get some damage in (and kills), trying to avoid his longer attacks and what not.

 

[CoonTail]

Ive noticed I like to start Zard in ALOT of matchups.....the zard-squirtle battery is always great just due to the fact that if Zard does his job right and takes out the opponents first stock then even if he only puts 30-50% on the second(LOL one good rocksmash basically) squirtle comes in and not only changes the pace of the match which is a very big shift in play, but also has a much greater chance of taking 2nd stock
and even potentially third.

It sucks that the zard-squirtle battery makes Ivy look so so bad. I guess thats why I need to work much more on my Ivy game.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Couldn't help but to see this with "Pit" on it, so I can only help out a bit only because I don't see many PTs these days.

Squirtle is generally your best choice, considering how Pit has problems trying to hit smaller chars, aka, ur little water turtle.
This is especially if you can't space well with Ivy against Pit, and Charizard's a big target for Pit, not to mention Pit to have one of the best edgeguards and camping games in the game, capable of gimping Ivy and Zard quite well. Squirtle, being small, is harder to hit, along with pretty good speed, and therefore is the most difficult for Pit to deal with.
It kinda depends on the Pit and his style, but it's hard for me to really explain it. All I can say is ur best bet is to harass Pit with Squirtle first, doing as much as you can to him, then go for some quicker kills with one of the other 2. Just be careful of Pit's great gimping potential against Ivy and Zard.

 

[Popertop]

Steeler, MM Esca next time you see him and prove it's not bad

 

[Bomber7]

Steeler, MM Esca next time you see him and prove it's not bad

What are your opinions on Sieya? I've played him a couple of times and it wasn't all too bad.

 

[Popertop]

Seiya's like a mid level pit, he plays better in teams singles isn't really his strength

he prolly doesn't know the matchup really well either

 

[Bomber7]

Seiya's like a mid level pit, he plays better in teams singles isn't really his strength

he prolly doesn't know the matchup really well either

understood. I think I remember him saying he wasn't the best Pit but he still has pretty good skill with him.

 

[Magik0722]

esca 3 stocked my PT in tournament

 

[Steeler]

Steeler, MM Esca next time you see him and prove it's not bad

i think it'd be pretty fun, i'll probably run into him in this month

esca 3 stocked my PT in tournament

nevermind

 

[Zigsta]

esca 3 stocked my PT in tournament

Daaaang. I wanna play Esca at HOBO 20 now. :O

 

[Bomber7]

Character Discussion: ROB

11 more to go guys and then we will have completed the first version of the Choosing Your Starter chart!

Next is ROB. I have quite a bit of experience playing ROB especially the uber campy kind, but then again I'm sure most ROBS do.

To start, you definitely need Squirtle on this, you need to chase that mofo down and keep him pressured while he's off stage.

However I'm having other thoughts; ROB is a fat ***, when on stage, Charizard doesn't do half bad and for the most part won't fall for ROB's amazing spotdodge-Dsmash **** so overall I think Charizard has something on the ground. Ivy does ok with aerialing ROB but then she can pretty easily fall into the SDDS easier than squirtle could but she does have a projectile which I would think could pressure ROB while he's off stage, because ROB has very few off stage options and they can be avoided. Plus you can always bulb spike them on the right stage however I think maybe Ivysaur should mainly keep a ground game but keep it like 55:45 because the aerials are effective against ROB but become predictable and you'll be punished. ;P

any thoughts to add, contradict, criticize?

ONWAAAAAAAAARD!

 

[Tien2500]

Start Squirtle. Its pretty simple. Unless you're really alot better with Charizard I'm not sure why you wouldn't.

 

[Bestiarius]

The best ROBs I've seen do fine offstage. ROB is a pain from a distance. I can't see RL being a viable option against an offstage ROB simply because ROB has such a beast recovery and RL has such a limited trajectory, plus a good ROB can outdo RL with his laser even offstage. I think Squirtle would stand the best chance with Charizard a close second, so my recommendation would be a Zard-Squirtle battery.

 

[Zigsta]

I've started both Squirtle and Charizard on different occasions, but I'd have to say that starting Squirtle's worked out best for me.

 

[Magik0722]

Start with ivy, switc mid stock to charizard

 

[Steeler]

Start with ivy, switc mid stock to charizard

you can just do that on your second stock if you start squirtle

 

[Toby.]

I wanna be the very best,
Like no one ever was.
To catch them is my real test,
To train them is my cause.

I will travel across the land,
Searching far and wide.
Teach Pokemon to understand,
The power that's inside.

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
It's you and me!
I know it's my destiny!

POKEMON!
Ooooooh, you're my best friend,
In a world we must defend.

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
Our hearts so true,
Our courage will pull us through.
You teach me and I'll teach you.

PO-KE-MON!
Gotta catch'em all
Gotta catch'em all
Yeaaahh..

Every challenge along the way,
With courage I'll face.
I will battle everyday,
To claim my rightful place.

Come with me, the time is right,
There's no better team.
Arm in arm, we'll win the fight,
It's always been our dream.

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
It's you and me!
I know it's my destiny!

POKEMON!
Ooooohhhhh you're my best friend,
In a world we must defend.

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
Our hearts so true,
Our courage will pull us through.
You teach me and I'll teach you,
POKEMON!

Gotta catch'em all!
Gotta catch'em all!

Gotta catch'em all!
Gotta catch'em all!
Yeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
It's you and me!
I know it's my destiny!

POKEMON!
Ooooohhhhh you're my best friend,
In a world we must defend.

POKEMON! (GOTTA CATCH'EM ALL!)
Our hearts so true,
Our courage will pull us through.
You teach me and I'll teach you,
PO-KE-MON!

Gotta catch'em all!
Gotta catch'em all!
POKEMON!



In conclusion, start squirtle. I know this was one of the matchups that typh knew quite well...I don't play it often.

 

[Bomber7]

I'd say Charizard can do decent but then again now that I have to think about it, ROB can just go campy off stage and Charizard has no range off stage and its a trap.

 

[TheMike]

Never mind starting with Ivy. Squirtle is the best, for sure. He can do really good stuff against ROB especially because he's tall and Squirtle has a nice air game. Besides, ROB sucks above most of the characters, and Squirtle is included. So, he'll rack up some damage quickly. Then, give the work to kill ROB for another pokemon.

Vs Charizard ROB can camp or take him off-stage so as to get early kills, almost the same way vs Ivy.

 

[Bomber7]

Never mind starting with Ivy. Squirtle is the best, for sure. He can do really good stuff against ROB especially because he's tall and Squirtle has a nice air game. Besides, ROB sucks above most of the characters, and Squirtle is included. So, he'll rack up some damage quickly. Then, give the work to kill ROB for another pokemon.

Vs Charizard ROB can camp or take him off-stage so as to get early kills, almost the same way vs Ivy.

how do charizard's options look when ROB is coming back to the stage? I know ROB really all he can do is laser beam and gyro (or try to air I guess if he were that close enough) but given that ROB is camping in the air off stage and charizard is left on the edge and waits, does Charizard have a good chance of punishing ROB as he returns.

 

[TheMike]

how do charizard's options look when ROB is coming back to the stage? I know ROB really all he can do is laser beam and gyro (or try to air I guess if he were that close enough) but given that ROB is camping in the air off stage and charizard is left on the edge and waits, does Charizard have a good chance of punishing ROB as he returns.

It depends on stages. Stages that ROB can go though it like Halberd and Delfino, the robot just needs to shark a little with his Up B and then rising Uair.

On stages like FD, I recomend ROB to use Bair so as to Air Dodge while recovering(he can't do this with his Up B). I really don't know much about Charizard(sorry >.>), but ROB needs to avoid any type of edge guard, Boos Hogging may be an option.

 

[Bomber7]

I would just assume if ROB was coming up and was spaced properly then Charizard could rip out a flamethrower, not sure about rock smash though. Also I would assume that any of Charizard's aerials would do the trick if ROB wanted to recover from higher up (assuming you and I were playing on FD)

However I do understand you point, with ROB it's a little tricky because some options wont work on the same stage so it's really iffy.

 

[TheMike]

I would just assume if ROB was coming up and was spaced properly then Charizard could rip out a flamethrower, not sure about rock smash though. Also I would assume that any of Charizard's aerials would do the trick if ROB wanted to recover from higher up (assuming you and I were playing on FD)

Flamethrower might be a great option, but if the ROB player could predict it, he'd try to recovery the same way Snake players do. I know that ROB sucks above some characters, but does Charizard have good options for juggle? If so, this may be a problem...

 

[Bomber7]

Flamethrower might be a great option, but if the ROB player could predict it, he'd try to recovery the same way Snake players do. I know that ROB sucks above some characters, but does Charizard have good options for juggle? If so, this may be a problem...

From looking in and out of discussions pertaining to Charizard I'm pretty sure he does however I'm going to need someone who knows Charizard better than I do to back me up on this because I start with Squirtle and Charizard is out the least so I'm not all too familiar with his performance as compared to Squirtle.

 

[Zigsta]

Charizard isn't really a juggler. You can get off mutliple upairs at low percents in the air (as long as you don't hit the ground since upair has a good bit of lag upon hitting the ground). Uptilt comes out pretty fast. Charizard will probably go for an upsmash if you're above him; if you're too high above him, he'll probably just reposition so he can either use another aerial or Rock Smash or angled ftilt. Or just wait for you to hit the ground.

As a whole, ROB really doesn't have to worry about being too far above Charizard, unlike Squirtle.

 

[T-block]

ROB is among the worst for being juggled though, isn't he? Charizard isn't know as a great juggler, but I've never had a problem keeping ROB up and doing a whole lot of damage if I get him into the air. Between u-air, u-tilt, n-air, u-smash, and mixing it up with grabs -> u-throw you can keep him up pretty well.

 

[TheMike]

ROB is among the worst for being juggled though, isn't he?

Yes.

So, I can say that ROB just needs to take Charizard far from the ledge throwing Gyros or shooting lasers. Then, he can probably recover safety.


He isn't a good option to start as Squirtle is though.