Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Retro Gaming]

Does anyone know if it works with other aerials? Fair would be nice, it would eliminate some of the unsafeness in using it.

Supposedly possible with Fair and Bair, but I haven't seen a video of it. If I get the timing for it down, I'll try to apply it to other moves.

 

[Charizard92]

Infinite jump seems Kinda pointless outside of showing how good you are. But what do you think beating up your opponent is for.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Dude there is no harm in fiddling around with possibilities. Whether it's pointless or not, we won't know until we look into it.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Ok, I integrated it into my playing. I can only do 2, but I've found it's like a taller u-tilt.
pretty neat, I'll do mad scientist experiments with it later...

 

[Charizard92]

Same, but it is pointless.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

the **** is wrong with this guy.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Same, but it is pointless.

YOU
DON'T
HAVE
TO
LEARN
IT!!!

 

[infernovia]

Anybody know if this is kinda like the second jump renewal?

 

[Charizard92]

I am just saying that it doesn't seem as important as a lot of other things Charizard can do, like gliding (I managed to do the reverse Hyrule temple jump as Charizard, I just need to start at the other end). That ability must be as advanced as the infinite jump, yet it has a really good application. Say, why am I arguing about the infinite jump anyway?! trust me, nothing is wrong with me, I just don't see infinite jumps as anything other than proving that you aren't a noob, and there are other methods too.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

So SJR is pointless but the reverse Hyrule jump is relevant and important?

All gliding characters can go completely under Hyrule Temple and New Pork City, let alone most if not all floating stages. It's something that's been known since day one, and its applications (avoiding edgeguarders) have been discussed to death.

Gliding itself, with Charizard, is not as deep in regards to applications as it is with Pit and Meta Knight. It's slower to start up, and Charizard's jumps don't enable him to go very high. Glides mostly come in handy when knocked away from the stage, where you can glide back down and use your high priority, auto-canceling glide attack to cancel out any aerials thrown at you and get back safely. Also, as I have proposed, it can be used as an edgeguard against opponents recovering from under the stage.

What else would you like to discuss about gliding?

 

[Charizard92]

Hmn, since we changed the subject, since Charizard can go under the stage, he would be good at the leap of faith run away when it is time to run. Because very few characters can go under the stage without fear, Charizard isn't a lost cause when the damage meter is over the top (if it ever happens). So, Charizard is meant to fight, but he can efficiently back down and start running (lets see Ivysaur try that).

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Hmn, since we changed the subject, since Charizard can go under the stage, he would be good at the leap of faith run away when it is time to run. Because very few characters can go under the stage without fear, Charizard isn't a lost cause when the damage meter is over the top (if it ever happens). So, Charizard is meant to fight, but he can efficiently back down and start running (lets see Ivysaur try that).

Leap of faith... no. Smashette (the god of smash) gave characters shields so that they need not fear, she gave charizard rock smash so the other characters will back off. savy?

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Stalling is banned in most tournaments anyway. Gliding under stages for no reason other than to run would definitely be flagged as stalling.

And a lot of characters can go under stages actually, you'd be surprised. Lucario can go completely under Lylat Cruise, for instance.

 

[Charizard92]

Oh, so, that is another thing thrown into the trash can of impractical ideas, sorry. I was thinking though, wouldn't it be a cool "combo" if you use a perfect rock smash and followed it up with flamethrower? (I put combo in quotes because it isn't technically a combo, I guess)

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Oh, so, that is another thing thrown into the trash can of impractical ideas, sorry. I was thinking though, wouldn't it be a cool "combo" if you use a perfect rock smash and followed it up with flamethrower? (I put combo in quotes because it isn't technically a combo, I guess)

Nah, I've tried it, it's not going to work. A perfect rock smash sends the opponent diagonally up away from you, and you don't have time to jump AND use flamethrower before your opponent is able to attack again.

 

[Charizard92]

Oh, well, both are must uses because they rack up a lot of damage very quickly. While Charizard might not need them, he does gets help from them (once again, I said might)

 

[Pichu Sensei]

I've noticed that of all the moves charizard has, I use Dsmash the least.
Unlike squirtles and ivy's dsmash, charizards isn't very useful. It doesn't shoot opponents sideways, isn't very fast, and doesn't have long range. Is there some use in this that I'm missing, or better yet a combo?

 

[manhunter098]

I think his D-smash is pretty fast. I mean there are definitely faster ones (Wolf and Metaknight) but I think it comes out faster than Squirtles and Ivysaur's down smash, but its hitbox is limited to grounded opponents, and it definitely is a rather difficult to hit with as well (though its particularly easy to hit with any of the PT cast's down smashes, they all really suck in that regard)

 

[Charizard92]

Agreed, Dsmash somewhat pointless with Charizard. Squirtle=different story though.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Should you need it, Dsmash will punish a roll very well. Spot-dodges fall in this category, too, and it kills at about the same percents that Usmash would. = o

I don't use it often, but don't throw it out the window, it can be useful.

 

[Rauzaruke]

I was going to say that spot dodge to down smash works quite nicely. It looks cool because it seems like Charizard is flowing back from the spotdodge into the downsmash.

 

[Charizard92]

I said somewhat pointless, not throw out window.

 

[Adriel]

Does anyone know exactly what part of Charizard's back-air spikes, and how to get it consistently? I think you have to hit your opponent with his wing(s), without sweet-spotting the tip. I've only done this a couple times, and none of them were intentional.

 

[Charizard92]

Nope. The spike happened to me, but I can't get consistent results. Besides, it's more like Kirby's Dair spike than a more useful meteor smash.

 

[Tenki]

I think someone mentioned using the front of the hitbox/Charizard to get it to work (first hit?)

I can't test it right now though.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

Why use Bair as a spike? If you're going to spike someone, then they can't really do anything to stop you. So using it as a fake out won't do.

 

[Charizard92]

Or a gimp move.

 

[Dizzynecro]

Why use Bair as a spike? If you're going to spike someone, then they can't really do anything to stop you. So using it as a fake out won't do.

its good to mix things up because there is something your opponent can do about it(airdodge, hit you out of it) plus it could be faster even if its kinda hard to hit with.

 

[Charizard92]

Plus, it doubles as a practical aerial and a gimp move.

 

[Ratherion]

Zard can infinite-grab Jiggs.

 

[Adriel]

I tested and the hitbox for his back-air spike is indeed his wings. It seems your opponent has to be in back of you and a little above you for it to hit without Charizard's tail. However, this spike is very weak, even weaker than Ivysaur's n-air spike.

About down-smash, it has very quick start-up time but it's ending lag is huge. About as long as Charizard's forward-smash. It does have very nice range though, and is a good way to hit behind you. I found that SHAD'ing (short hop air dodging) into down-smash works very well; the start up-time is even quicker than spot dodging into it.

 

[Charizard92]

true, but it doesn't work against opponents in the air.

 

[ShellShifter]

I am having trouble spacing and defending myself against faster characters (Marth, Meta Knight, Toon Link). Any suggestions ? What moves should I be using?

 

[Charizard92]

Flamethrower, trust me.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

How would flamethrower help with spacing?

ShellShifter: Retreating nairs, bairs, and rock smashes, if executed safely, work well towards controlling space even against faster opponents. However, it's not enough to perform those things, what really holds most zoning tactics down is the threat of punishment if the opponent tries to get in your "zone". Charizard's grabbing range means a grab is the most imminent threat for anyone who tries to enter Charizard's space, so remember that you must always keep that threat present. On the ground, jabs and ftilts offer decent protection as well. Use dsmash for opponents who cross you up and land behind you, since Charizard's back is often perceived as his weak side, even though he has decent options.

 

[Charizard92]

Simple, Flamethrower is a ranged attack, and you can angle it so you can trap you opponent. It will give some space.

 

[Ratherion]

Faster opponents can jump over it and stab you in the back.

The Bair spike is a small animation trick caused by Zard's claw coming around, it's supposed to send you down into the tail, which is why it's a set kockback, so I see about as much use for it as I do Ivy's Nair spike. They don't really go anywhere, maybe three or four mario lengths down, which is an easy to recover from distance. Maybe if you did it way down on the screen, then flapped your way back up.

 

[Charizard92]

Eh, it's worth a shot.

 

[ShellShifter]

I found the best way to abuse Charizard is his fast running speed. It allows for great follow-ups. For example, yesterday i played a Marth and I did this little combo: fthrow, fthrow (caught him in the air), fair, fair for the KO. His running speed is really fast and it helps put the pressure on opponents. Also,there are good ways to be less predictable. If you are running at an opponent and he is expecting a grab (spot dodge) then use Rock Smash. Squirtle isn't the only one with mindgames.

 

[Charizard92]

I always keep on telling people that Charizard is fast, and now you found a way to use it. (non-sarcastic) bravo!