Onxy
Smash Lord
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 1,568
PM me if you want me to add something to a move that was already discussed or other ideas.
Basically, we discuss moves.
Is there anything we can do with this move? Any AT's or other usage for the move?
I'll need:
Uses:
DMG:
Frames:
AT:
Autocancel:
Special Properties:
Followups and Usage:
Sorry, no pretty pictures, I want to save space xD
I'll update every week.
Rocksmash
Uses: Attacking.
Frame: 24 to hit the rock, 5 to pull out the rock.
Damage 18 sweet spotted (massive knockback), 45 with the debris (little knockback), 35 when fatigued.
Autocancel: No
Super Armor: When Charizard's bringing his head down to smash the rock.
Follow ups and Usage: Rocksmash is a powerful move with many uses, but it depends on the user on how they wish to use it. If you hit the full Rocksmash, you can follow up with an Usmash, grab, jab, or even a Fsmash if lucky.
Rocksmash can be a great offensive move as it is great to use on worn shields to shield-poke them (or even break them). You can wear down shields too, but you are giving the opponent an advantage by letting them shield the whole thing, so only try to use it on their shield when it's already worn.
Rocksmash also can make you hard to approach because of the debris and it can be used in the air.
Rocksmash also makes a great counter move when you can bring out the rock in 5 frames as the opponents attack is getting ready to connect, but not easy to pull off.
Rocksmash is also good for B reversal mind-games.
Fly
Uses: Recovery, combo breaking, attacking.
DMG: 17%, 12% fatigued.
Frames: ?
AT: no
Autocancel: no.
Special Qualities: ?
Super Armor: frames 4 - 13
Followups and Usage:
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JF0FpdzdJ4
Silly Fox....
Flamethrower
Uses: Damage racking, spacing, edgeguarding, edge-pressuring, and approaching.
DMG: (it constantly racks damage, but the damage for each hit wasn't mentioned)
Frames: ?
AT: None as of now.
Autocancel: No
Special Properties:
- Similar to Bowser's, but more focused with less range; it also lasts longer by around 2 seconds.
- Can be angled.
Followups and Usage:
Damage Racking - It's Charizard's best way of damage-racking. The flamethrower itself isn't too long, but has great focus. People can roll around Bower's flames because it's more radial than it is a stream; it doesn't keep hitting the opponent, because there are windows when you don't take damage.. This is difficult to do against Charizard; try it, and you will end up with +50% damage.
Spacing - I find this to be mediocre at spacing. Charizard has better spacing options than Flamethrower, but it works well against fatties. It's not too useful because has a slow startup time and a dangerous amount of ending lag. It also doesn't go that high when you angle it.
Edgeguarding - This can force an opponent to hang around the edges and avoid the flames, which puts you in a good postition. I would say it works well against spacies, but I didn't really use the Flamethrower as edgeguarding. I would also assume that it would work well against people who decide to edge-stall Charizard. Sorry, not much to say here.
Edge-Pressuring - It works very well against characters who can't jump very high. Characters like Ike (he had to come first, I'm that biased), Bowser, Snake, Ganondorf, Ivysaur, Olimar, and many others. Basically, they have to try to hop around it and hit you. Not an easy task for some of these characters.
Approaching - An okay approach, but he has better options. It suffers as an approach for the same reasons as its spacing option. Slow, can't angle well, smaller range than Bowser's, but still good against the fat ones.
Jab
Uses: Spacing, and following up to another attack.
DMG: 3-hit - 3, 4, 6%...... (when fatigued 2, 3, 5%)
Frames: ?
AT: None
Autocancel: No
Special Properties: yeah, shield when Charizard is attacking you. You will instantly shield the second attack (bad game).
Followups and Usage: A glide to a jab isn't a bad idea. The glide autocancels, so there.
The jab also has many followups, if you don't complete it after the second attack. Like jab, jab, grab; jab, jab, ftilt; jab, jab, Usmash; jab, jab, Dtilt; jab, jab.
My opinion: I love and hate this attack. I love it, because it has range that almost reaches Ike's jab. I hate it because it has NO HITSTUN, during the first attack (bad game). It's also a slow jab; it doesn't seem slow, but for a jab, it is.
Ftilt
Uses: Spacing, kill move, and can be used after an autocancelled aerial.
DMG: 11-12% (8-9% fatigued)
Frames: ?
AT: none
Autocancel: no
Special Properties: can cause fire damage if sweetspotted.
Followups and Usage: It's a spacing move that is a little slow, so it kinda defeats the purpose of it being one. It is faster than something like Ike's Ftilt, but still weaker and less in range. It still has good range, though.
With the problems the move has, it isn't bad as a kill move. While you won't be able to kill fat-arses like King Dedede, you can still kill people who are mid-weight and below. Dtilt is more powerful, but has less range than Ftilt.
You can followup with Ftilt after using moves such as Nair, Glide, Fair, and Bair.
My opinion:
Spacing: It's not bad as a spacer, really, but it being slow kinda takes away from that. Also, it has good range, but good range isn't that great when it's a slow ranged attack. Charizard, himself, doesn't have many quick spacing options, so you got to take what you get.
Kill move: only attack if you are going to tip it, otherwise don't bother. Use Dtilt, if you aren't going for the tip.
Basically, we discuss moves.
Is there anything we can do with this move? Any AT's or other usage for the move?
I'll need:
Uses:
DMG:
Frames:
AT:
Autocancel:
Special Properties:
Followups and Usage:
Sorry, no pretty pictures, I want to save space xD
I'll update every week.
Rocksmash
Uses: Attacking.
Frame: 24 to hit the rock, 5 to pull out the rock.
Damage 18 sweet spotted (massive knockback), 45 with the debris (little knockback), 35 when fatigued.
Autocancel: No
Super Armor: When Charizard's bringing his head down to smash the rock.
Follow ups and Usage: Rocksmash is a powerful move with many uses, but it depends on the user on how they wish to use it. If you hit the full Rocksmash, you can follow up with an Usmash, grab, jab, or even a Fsmash if lucky.
Rocksmash can be a great offensive move as it is great to use on worn shields to shield-poke them (or even break them). You can wear down shields too, but you are giving the opponent an advantage by letting them shield the whole thing, so only try to use it on their shield when it's already worn.
Rocksmash also can make you hard to approach because of the debris and it can be used in the air.
Rocksmash also makes a great counter move when you can bring out the rock in 5 frames as the opponents attack is getting ready to connect, but not easy to pull off.
Rocksmash is also good for B reversal mind-games.
Fly
Uses: Recovery, combo breaking, attacking.
DMG: 17%, 12% fatigued.
Frames: ?
AT: no
Autocancel: no.
Special Qualities: ?
Super Armor: frames 4 - 13
Followups and Usage:
And is also a great combo breakerFly is similar to waterfall in many ways with differentiations in vertical and horizontal speed, knockback, vertical height and landing lag. Despite this laundry list, it has many properties that stay the same.
Fly does 17% damage total, and 12% when fatigued. It is important to note this is a combo move, so it can be DI'ed out of, but it's a fast enough moving attack that it doesn't happen as often as, say, waterfall. Also like waterfall, its horizontal speed can be changed though in this case, only at the beginning of the move. (Taken from Card)
This is a pretty safe move for recovery, as Zard's body is almost completely covered in hitbox throughout, and even some invincibility frames near the beginning of the move. It is incredibly dangerous, however, to land on the stage with this move without hitting your opponent, as the amount of landing lag is significant.
Fly can be a great attack when used properly. It's a good up-b OOS move, and if angled forwads it can be near impossible to DI out of; it will kill lighter opponents such as fox/meta as early as 80(?) if fresh so it is definitely a danger. It can also be used as a surprise attack from underneath a platform but this is more risky.
Overall a great recovery move though not as diverse as Waterfall. Also a powerful attack when used correctly.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JF0FpdzdJ4
Silly Fox....
Flamethrower
Uses: Damage racking, spacing, edgeguarding, edge-pressuring, and approaching.
DMG: (it constantly racks damage, but the damage for each hit wasn't mentioned)
Frames: ?
AT: None as of now.
Autocancel: No
Special Properties:
- Similar to Bowser's, but more focused with less range; it also lasts longer by around 2 seconds.
- Can be angled.
Followups and Usage:
My Opinion: Flamethrower has multiple uses:I've been thinking about ways to write up a good piece about flamethrower but there's really not much to be said.. So it's gonna be short.
Flamethrower has charizard spew flames from his mouth, sending a constant stream of damage a good distance out from his body. However, this stream dwindles over time, so leaving it out forever will cause it to die and become ineffective. While there is not an overwhelming amount of startup/ending lag, it does exist and is important to be aware of. It is also possible to aim this flame up and down in order to better target your enemy.
Flamethrower is first and foremost a potent damage racker for Charizard. An opponent caught in the middle of the stream can take significant damage depending on DI. A sh'ed flamethrower can be a great move to put pressure on a grounded opponent, especially one who is near the edge and has nowhere to retreat to. It can also be used a keep away tool against an overagressive opponent, as if your opponent gets caught in the stream then they have to retreat and this gives you some space and time to work with.
It can also be used as an edgeguarding tool, though not as the means to an end. Flamethrower used off of the edge of a stage can mess with quite a few recoveries, forcing your opponent into a bad position in order to survive. This can be exploited and punished accordingly. Angling flamethrower down can be very useful in this situation.
Flamethrower is a simple move with a simple purpose. Use it as such.
Uses for flamethrower:
Damage racking
Pressuring a grounded opponent (especially near the edge)
Keeping away agressive opponents
Complementary edgeguarding tool (though usually not for the kill)
Damage Racking - It's Charizard's best way of damage-racking. The flamethrower itself isn't too long, but has great focus. People can roll around Bower's flames because it's more radial than it is a stream; it doesn't keep hitting the opponent, because there are windows when you don't take damage.. This is difficult to do against Charizard; try it, and you will end up with +50% damage.
Spacing - I find this to be mediocre at spacing. Charizard has better spacing options than Flamethrower, but it works well against fatties. It's not too useful because has a slow startup time and a dangerous amount of ending lag. It also doesn't go that high when you angle it.
Edgeguarding - This can force an opponent to hang around the edges and avoid the flames, which puts you in a good postition. I would say it works well against spacies, but I didn't really use the Flamethrower as edgeguarding. I would also assume that it would work well against people who decide to edge-stall Charizard. Sorry, not much to say here.
Edge-Pressuring - It works very well against characters who can't jump very high. Characters like Ike (he had to come first, I'm that biased), Bowser, Snake, Ganondorf, Ivysaur, Olimar, and many others. Basically, they have to try to hop around it and hit you. Not an easy task for some of these characters.
Approaching - An okay approach, but he has better options. It suffers as an approach for the same reasons as its spacing option. Slow, can't angle well, smaller range than Bowser's, but still good against the fat ones.
Jab
Uses: Spacing, and following up to another attack.
DMG: 3-hit - 3, 4, 6%...... (when fatigued 2, 3, 5%)
Frames: ?
AT: None
Autocancel: No
Special Properties: yeah, shield when Charizard is attacking you. You will instantly shield the second attack (bad game).
Followups and Usage: A glide to a jab isn't a bad idea. The glide autocancels, so there.
The jab also has many followups, if you don't complete it after the second attack. Like jab, jab, grab; jab, jab, ftilt; jab, jab, Usmash; jab, jab, Dtilt; jab, jab.
My opinion: I love and hate this attack. I love it, because it has range that almost reaches Ike's jab. I hate it because it has NO HITSTUN, during the first attack (bad game). It's also a slow jab; it doesn't seem slow, but for a jab, it is.
Ftilt
Uses: Spacing, kill move, and can be used after an autocancelled aerial.
DMG: 11-12% (8-9% fatigued)
Frames: ?
AT: none
Autocancel: no
Special Properties: can cause fire damage if sweetspotted.
Followups and Usage: It's a spacing move that is a little slow, so it kinda defeats the purpose of it being one. It is faster than something like Ike's Ftilt, but still weaker and less in range. It still has good range, though.
With the problems the move has, it isn't bad as a kill move. While you won't be able to kill fat-arses like King Dedede, you can still kill people who are mid-weight and below. Dtilt is more powerful, but has less range than Ftilt.
You can followup with Ftilt after using moves such as Nair, Glide, Fair, and Bair.
My opinion:
Spacing: It's not bad as a spacer, really, but it being slow kinda takes away from that. Also, it has good range, but good range isn't that great when it's a slow ranged attack. Charizard, himself, doesn't have many quick spacing options, so you got to take what you get.
Kill move: only attack if you are going to tip it, otherwise don't bother. Use Dtilt, if you aren't going for the tip.