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I feel the same way.
Fair enough, I looked around for some articles/interviews and here's what I found.BirthNote I asked for citings, not fair reasons to believe it influenced it. Like, where do the developers talk about it? Those are definite coincidences otherwise(I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd honestly like some proof, that's all.
). To go back to the KI comparison, you could argue Combos, while KI officially did them first, weren't really considered important till SFII did them. It is the first game to do so, but it might not have influenced it. It however indefinitely influenced the Combo Breaker. Announcer Chatter is the most infamous from KI, but it might not have given a reason for everyone else to do it(though it probably did, but then you have stuff like games with rosters just saying stuff, so it's not that obvious).
Well, as someone who never played the games, I feel she has a good chance myself. While she is hardly a shaper of gaming history alone, she also comes from a popular set of games, but more importantly, I feel her votes are very high due to Wayforward pushing them. I think the demand is there. I also don't feel she has any hard competition in the same way. While yes, a Touhou character is a huge Indie in their own right, they also may not have the demand, making it iffy. Shovel Knight was her big competition, of course. And Steve? is no longer an Indie(but also very easy to get into the game outside of moveset issues at best).Verde Coeden Scalesworth I know this is a bit off the current topic but I'm super curious to hear your take on Shantae's chances of being playable. Your take in regards to Banjo-Kazooie has given me something new to consider and though I personally feel the character is justifiable for inclusion, I completely understand your reasoning as to the difficulty involved at the legal level. And being a Geno supporter myself, I also understand that adding Cloud first was basically a no-brainer (only in retrospect, though, I admit xD).
It's currently one of Nintendo's stated goals to give more exposure to the Indie scene and I can't imagine the correspondence with WayForward being difficult at all (being as they're all fans of Nintendo and cater to them a lot), outside of language barriers at least. Shantae could also be considered a "soft icon" being that she's at least near the top of the Indie scene. Though I'm completely open to a brutal interpretation of her chances if you'd be so willing.
Seeing as I wouldn't be able to examine her chances in a non-biased manner, I would like to hear the perspective of someone who's opinion I respect.
I think Sunshine is more likely a coincidence anyway. But yeah, I didn't seriously know this at all. Thank you for the information.
Is this an anti-Jack Frost argument?
No.
Thank you. I appreciate that you took the time to respond. =)
It seems you don't know much about Isaac if you think he'd be a generic sword fighter. Isaac rarely uses his sword, really all he does with it is leap attacks in his home game and he also uses other weapons such as an axe or a mace. He is a venus adept which means he of his moves are from Venus psynergy which is a special type of magic that revolves around earth and plants so he's basically an earth-bender which we don't have in Smash at all. He can also use creatures called djinn that are divided into the the four elements to give him new spells, change his class and to give him the ability to summon beasts in battle. He can also use utility psynergy to conjure a giant hand that can be used to help him with different motions
If it makes you feel better, I honestly think characters who aren't big but have a huge demand have a good chance now thanks to the ballot. Let me say this as someone who thought SK had the most chance; Shantae absolutely had a decent chance, though maybe not for DLC. I think the issue is one Indie was being pushed over the others, so that hurt her a bit.
I'd say the same thing if we didn't have Snake and Bayo.
No, I'm saying Mineraft wouldn't do well what I'm saying is we can be certain Banjo did better than Steve in the ballot. The ballot was mainly the hardcore fans who care about who makes it into Smash. Steve is a very polarizing figure among the hardcore fanbase. As mod I know you've seen that Steve can draw very critical responses from the fans so he likely didn't do that well on the ballot. It doesn't matter that Minecraft would be a casual darling Banjo outperformed Steve and I doubt anyone will say otherwise. Banjo doesn't need to be the killer app for Xbox he has the popular vote. That's all we care about. Because Banjo is wanted far more than his more recognizable friends he is in a prime position to come alongside them. Sakurai gets Steve for the worldwide appeal and Banjo for the popularity. That is something Sakurai is very likely to do. It doesn't matter that Microsoft has bigger names Sakurai isn't just going to ignore him.
Yes Banjo is the Geno in this situation. A character that Sakurai will try to get alongside the big names. That's literally what I keep saying. And as for Sakurai not wanting him there is zero evidence he doesn't want him or doesn't like him and that's far more important.
I don't even need to read the rest of that paragraph. We don't need to know anything more than Sakurai was willing to put in a small character like Geno. Nothing else matters. It shows Banjo could still be considered despite being dead and more niche than the more well known IPs.
No, it can't first none of those have fan demand besides Banjo. I mean they do even the smallest of characters has at least 1 fan but none of them have enough fan demand to say they have fan demand. Sakurai is going to go in there and get as many characters as possible one of which is Banjo which we know Microsoft is totally ok with letting him use so in those negotiations Sakurai will try to get to Banjo and if the talks don't fall through then he will come along with whoever else Sakurai wanted to grab, or negotiations will fall through and he will walk away with no one. Sakurai will not approach Microsoft with no intention of getting Banjo and it is exceptionally unlikely that Microsoft will "you can only have one character now pick". In fact, the most likely scenario for Ultimate is sadly Sakurai hasn't approached Microsoft at all but if he does and legal proceedings don't fall through Banjo will be the character or one of the characters he comes back with that's it.
I see what you're trying to say is an issue and I can concede that it is possible that Steve or Chief join and Banjo doesn't make the cut, it's just that's far more unlikely than him joining with them or him joining and they don't. I mean it's also possible Goku will be the first DLC character but it's extremely unlikely just like getting Chief or Steve without Banjo is extremely unlikely. So no I don't view it as a problem to feel extremely confident that if Sakurai talks with Microsoft and comes back with Minecraft content that he is also coming back with Banjo content.
Steve? isn't even that polarizing as you make it. There's a really tiny minority of fans who are hard Nintendo purists or can't accept a character if they aren't majorly important to Nintendo. Sakurai coincidentally ignores these people because he's sick of the console wars bull****. You also are claiming one character did better than the other with no evidence from the ballot to support it. There is no way to know who did better. They're both very likely really high due to heavily popular characters. I wouldn't pay attention to a ton of fan-haters on this site. They're mostly irrelevant. This isn't like Tingle who legit has a severely huge hatebase in the West, for some awful reason.
And zero evidence Sakurai wants Banjo or likes him. You can't really pull that either and expect a completely unknown variable to be in your favor. We don't know jack-all on what he thinks of Banjo. We know that fan demand can help. That's it.
This does not show anything of the sort towards Banjo at all. Sakurai did not really consider him at all as a viable character at any time that we can cite. If Geno's reason for being in Brawl, no matter how much you like to deny this, is because only he was interested, then it is completely different from any case of Banjo getting in from fan demand. Geno only got a costume because Sakurai already wanted him in as well. He had that going for him. Sakurai isn't just going to push for a 3rd party character because of fan demand alone. He didn't for Geno, or did he? We don't know because you can't legitimately prove why he wanted him in Brawl. Did you know there was absolutely zero polls for characters who were wanted in Brawl? That's right, Geno's entire votebase is only cited as a tiny few(like no more than 10 or so) from the Melee polls. That means that Sakurai either went for fanpolls or just played his game instead. He plays lots of games. It's more probably he doesn't really look into fanpolls(using only his own polls) and actually play a game to see if the character interests him. In other words, it's more likely Geno would not have gotten even a costume if Sakurai didn't like him. Yes, it's possible he looked at fanpolls. But the kicker is? We don't know. This is where your comparison falls flat. You're assuming fanpolls got Geno in as a costume, when that's not the whole story.
The only one that doesn't have nearly as much fan demand is Fulgore at best. Master Chief and Steve? have a huge fanbase. Don't confuse the SB fanbase stuff at all with how big and popular they are. Every single character in existence have fanbases for being wanted into Smash, even memes like Shrek is still a fanbase voting. For the wrong reasons in that case, but still. The ballot was open worldwide to all, fans of a crapload of characters, including two severely popular icons. Banjo is an obscure pick compared to Steve? and Master Chief by far. They obviously did good on the ballot because a lot of people do legit want them in. They just happen to have some people against them due to this whole Nintendo bias crap that Sakurai is sick of. That's all. You shouldn't dismiss huge fanbases just because one character has more Nintendo history. It's a bad idea to claim that Banjo got more votes than them. Likewise, it's a bad and unfounded claim that they don't have fan demand. They absolutely do. Why wouldn't two of the biggest icons in gaming have little fan demand in the biggest gaming crossover of all time? Seriously, they absolutely have demand. Now, I do think Banjo has more myself, but not to a huge degree as you're implying. That's a huge leap of logic that ignores their iconic status. Every single gaming icon is going to have huge fan demand for Smash. I mean, they're icons. What'd you expect?
You shouldn't be confident in something that isn't able to be backed up. There's a decent claim that only Minecraft content will be in, as it's literally the only consistent crossover between Microsoft and Nintendo to date. Anything beyond that is actually up in the air. I also don't want you to be disappointed if it doesn't happen at all. You're being very overconfident here, and I even think Banjo'll be in(DLC might be the better case, but we can't really expect the ballot to decide everything either), but I'm not that overconfident enough to make a claim that's impossible to back up. All you have is the ballot. What heavy usage of Banjo has existed lately? I've already explained why your Geno comparison is a huge fallacy(as Banjo is nowhere in the same situation in any way). Like, beyond a costume, where has he been? Yes, there's fan demand, but we know for a fact that does not make a character remotely guaranteed or worth being overconfident on. Waluigi should prove that alone. He's had significantly high fan demand. Didn't help him. What makes Banjo remotely different here? Actually, he's in a worse position as Waluigi is already more iconic, but also is 1st party and easier to get ahold of without going through any hoops. How is fan demand going to seriously make Banjo some guarantee at all? You keep claiming this guarantee but there's no serious reason to believe it beyond "ballot" which we know is not going to do help all highly demanded characters, factually so.
How is it obvious? Where is the data suggesting that these characters did well on the ballot? The fact that they exist and are popular doesn't really prove anything. The ballot was marketed to Nintendo fans, primarily fans of Smash Bros. You're acting like it was some crazy global phenomenon that everyone and their mothers voted in, when in reality, 1.8 million votes is really not very much at all, especially when you consider how many of those votes are double votes (to put it in perspective, there are posts regarding Smash Bros. on Tumblr with over 100k notes on it, meaning most of the votes very well could have come from the Smash Bros. fanbase).
Pro leaker.... you mean .... ah ok i won't do that pun again
No, the ballot was marketed towards all gaming fans and beyond. It was not meant to only appeal to Nintendo fans. The intention was to get everyone who was interested in characters.
Then why was it only talked about in a Nintendo Direct? Where was Microsoft tweeting "hey guys, if you want to see Steve or Master Chief, you should vote for them in the Smash Ballot!" Some companies did do this, like WayForward, but certainly not Microsoft. If anything, they only talked about Banjo.
Then why are Master Chief and Steve very low, if nonexistent, on most ballot exit polls? The same exit polls that put K. Rool (a Donkey Kong boss who hasn't been in the mainstream since 1999) in the top 5 almost every time? The idea that these characters would suddenly have massive support from casual fans - the same casual fans who probably aren't voting over and over like the diehard Smash fans - simply has no data to back this up. If the fact that K. Rool is in doesn't indicate to you that internet polls might actually be closer to the true performance of the ballot than once thought, then there's not really any common wavelength for me on this topic.
https://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-fighter-ballot-garnered-1-8-million-votes-worldwide/
Ah, I forgot about that.
It still got worldwide votes regardless, though a lot less than I remembered. Microsoft did not talk about Banjo, one person did who is a fan of him. Phil was definitely not speaking for Microsoft as a whole. This isn't like Wayforward, it's just one guy.
I'll concede I honestly made an error in my assessment. I still say they definitely got more votes than people are accounting for. And no, the idea only Nintendo fans voted is pretty bull. The majority, yes. But people knew about it. Clearly not a severe amount of non-Nintendo fans, but let's not pretend nobody else knew about it. Smash has quite consistently gathered other systems fans due to the third parties. This is important to remember, and part of why 3rd parties are a really smart option in getting actual fans beyond Nintendo veterans. In reality, Banjo isn't that known to a lot of people and will not bring in a lot of customers alone. Most are buying the game anyway. There's a good reason other Microsoft IP's, namely relevant ones, are very likely to show up in general, as it'll properly sell the game way better than trying to focus solely on a niche 3rd party fanbase... that are still the same fanbase as before. 3rd parties are business advertisements to a degree and will always help bring in customers that aren't just the same ones over and over again. Sales require new blood to do better. Nintendo-known characters do not actually get clear sales towards customers who aren't already interested in a Switch. This is a lot more important than people think. It's no coincidence that Sonic and Snake are on the cover, it's a business practice to get far more customers than Nintendo purists, which is a big reason why 3rd parties are about gaming history, not Nintendo history.
I never said there were 0 and I completely agree there were probably quite a handful, but I'm pretty confident Nintendo fans, especially Smash fans, were the driving force behind the ballot.
There's never been a third party character on the cover of any Smash game though.
Does that make K. Rool an anomaly? I mean, if we get more characters that scored highly on fan polls, will that still not convince you? Genuinely curious.
I kind of said that.
The back is the cover. Though fair enough on the others.
No, that means they clearly were ballot picks. I didn't say they don't exist. K. Rool is a ballot pick and scored highly. We know Bayonetta did too(though whether that legit influenced her getting in Smash is another story). The problem is, there's no reason to believe in fanpolls at all. The only convincing ones are those who said were fan demand. Any fanpoll should be ignored as they are not accurate in any way.
Why are you taking Goku supporters seriously? Its a joke support group. Even the Waluigi supporters are more sensible.
I'm really curious has anyone asked for Bubsy in Smash? Is there a support thread for ****in Bubsy? That's like adding Aero the Acrobat, Tak, Klonoa, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger or any other generic lame platforming "mascot". I hate the idea of Crash and Spyro joining Smash and while I find both of them pretty generic AT LEAST they aren't on the same level as the others I mentioned.
Not defending Minecraft here or anything, but that's not exactly true. Certain characters do modify the terrain such as Pac-Man with his Fire Hydrant and his Up B, or Villager with his Tree. They create more terrain. Now no character can actually have abilities that destroy the map's terrain, but there's more to Minecraft than just that. Steve would likely have a very unique tool/skill/moveset that doesn't revolve around destroying maps.
that's very clearly a joke thread
Goku is an actual popular and iconic character. That's not a joke support group in any way.
