Character with highest skill-cap?

[Blitzern]

Who, in your opinion, has the highest skill-cap in the game?

 

[DakotaBonez]

Wii Fit Trainer.
Learning the timing of her Deep Breathing, knowing just how much to mash the button for her up special, and then there's the awkward spacing required for all of her moves to connect and learning to attack an opponent who is behind ya.

EDIT:
Changing my vote to duckhunt dog.
I don't even wanna imagine the crazy stunts someone could pull off with all the projectiles he's got, I can barely keep track of my own character much less that tin can.

 

[Utena]

nobody, because no character has any ATs.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

nobody, because no character has any ATs.

That's not at all answering the question.

Edit: for the question Wiifit trainer, Robin, optimal Rosalina and Luma are pretty tricky.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

That's not at all answering the question.

Edit: for the question Wiifit trainer, Robin, optimal Rosalina and Luma are pretty tricky.

I'd throw Shulk in there too, his Arts seem like they'll take a while to master.

 

[Ranias]

In terms of weaker and harder to use characters: rush down characters like Meta Knight and Kirby.

In terms of good characters that can be alot better with skill: Captain Falcon and Mega Man

 

[Undrdog]

nobody, because no character has any ATs.

ATs are slowly being discovered.

As for the question, I'd have to throw in characters with trap games. This includes Rosalina, Diddy Kong, and Duck Hunt.

 

[elmike]

i cant stop noticing that backroomers and moderators are only mentioning new characters (except for 1 diddy).

Could it be that its just that? That they are completely new and not 6+ years old?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Shulk is the character with the highest learning curve. Making correct and well-timed use of his Monado Arts, figuring out which strategies to use with a certain Monado Art activated and applying all these different variables to find out the ideal tactic in each specific matchup will take a lot of time.

 

[TTTTTsd]

@ ~ Gheb ~ summed it up perfectly.

Shulk, without a doubt. First you have spacing and fundamentals, which on its own is pretty small. Now add 5 monado arts that significantly change how you approach certain situations, and then multiply that by matchups because certain monados are good here, there, and THEN add the fact that they have a recharge time and you gotta pick the moment and order wisely, and then memorize the order they come in. It's not even that it's hard to figure out what the arts do, but implementing them on the fly?

To think that I thought Robin with his temporary inventory gimmick would be the most complex...how wrong I was...

I can't play Shulk at all. I definitely respect those who can.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Shulk?

Monado art canceling is simple on a general level. Requires foresight and some technical skill to do something like MA cancel into Smash, with your Nair/fair and follow up properly so you can d/ftilt their shield grab.

Some players not getting that double tap to vanilla is better then triple tap and that it let's you get to jump to recover from any art in about a second.

What is safe in buster/jump/vanilla vs speed/smash/shield. His spacing and multiple sweetspots on the bulk of his moves.

Maybe maybe not

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Wii Fit Trainer

• Must learn the timing for Deep Breathing & how long it lasts and when you can do another one at a fast speed
• Having to adapt to being able to hit characters behind you with multiple moves
• Learning the placement of her hitboxes since they're all "awkward"
• Knowing when to mash and not mash when using upB
• Moves having different properties (ex: Ftilt, the hand pushes but the foot launches)

After Wii Fit, I'd say Shulk is a solid second and then Pac-man third

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Some players not getting that double tap to vanilla is better then triple tap and that it let's you get to jump to recover from any art in about a second.

I've never been able to cancel my current Art with a double tap so IDK what you're on about here. It's always had to be triple tap or hold for me.

 

[Tattles]

Shulk and Megaman.

I think Robin definitely has a lot more potential to tip the complexity scale at a much higher level of play. With his throwable items, pretty strict hitboxes, and the fact that he spends a good amount of his time not being able to kill without the Levin Sword (only way to kill is a spike or Arcthunder/Thoron) for a good portion of each match

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I've never been able to cancel my current Art with a double tap so IDK what you're on about here. It's always had to be triple tap or hold for me.

Its literally in the game tips itself bro.
You rapid tap x2. This cancels.
When you press 3 times at a normal pace it will also cancel, this is what most generally do.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Its literally in the game tips itself bro.
You rapid tap x2. This cancels.
When you press 3 times at a normal pace it will also cancel, this is what most generally do.

I went into training mode and could not achieve a cancel with double tapping no matter how fast I pressed it, even at 1/4x speed. Game tips also don't mention the double tap, just triple or holding the button for a second. Miiverse image because I got stupid lucky and it didn't take long to show up.

Is there some kind of trick to it?

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Was working for me (3ds) I spent an hour in training practicing it.
Edit : wtf have I gone cray?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shulk, Rosalina, Robin

That's in order

Then Diddy.

Everyone else is a joke

 

[|RK|]

I'm going to go with the Shulk, Rosalina and Robin answer. Shulk is obvious - Monado Arts have particular advantages in particular situations, and good Shulk's need to know where each one is in relation to one another. I can only imagine what sort of absurd things we'll see from Shulk in the future.

Rosalina & Luma... I have a biased respect for puppet-master characters. Learning how to manage Luma effectively can lead to crazy combos in the future, among other things.

Robin has the whole mp/inventory thing to master, which speaks for itself.

Everyone without a unique, character-defining mechanic has an average skill-cap, I think.

 

[NairWizard]

is one.

Custom has a very high skill cap. It's not just knowing the different custom sets (though there is that too), it's just that she's so fast and there are so many things you can do out of Super Speed. After Shulk, she's probably the most complex character.

has a very high skill cap, because you need to be creative with your floats and aerials.

has a high skill cap too, because you need to be creative with your edgeguarding (he has different edgeguards on different cast members--important to learn matchups with Pikachu).

has a high skill cap, as does , because their movesets are very unique and there is much room for creativity.

... is easier than she appears at first, but is more complex than many.
... same boat. Controlling Luma isn't as difficult as it appears.

 

[MachoCheeze]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Pac-Man. Think about it, the amount of possibilities with his moveset and how his moves interact with each other. His fruit have all kinds of different properties to him and can be z-dropped for added strategy and everything. Side-b can be used for great mind games and can even be combined with hydrant to speed side-b up and to launch the hydrant.

Speaking of hydrant you can Hydrodash and Hydrosurf. You can trap others by bouncing them up with trampoline off stage and drop a hydrant, etc.

He's got so many tools and literally every time I play Pac I feel like i discovery something new.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Not one mention of Olimar? I feel like I have no idea how the hell to even start with him, let alone master him. He's definitely up there as one of the most complicated.

 

[Spirst]

is one.

Custom has a very high skill cap. It's not just knowing the different custom sets (though there is that too), it's just that she's so fast and there are so many things you can do out of Super Speed. After Shulk, she's probably the most complex character.

has a very high skill cap, because you need to be creative with your floats and aerials.

has a high skill cap too, because you need to be creative with your edgeguarding (he has different edgeguards on different cast members--important to learn matchups with Pikachu).

has a high skill cap, as does , because their movesets are very unique and there is much room for creativity.

... is easier than she appears at first, but is more complex than many.
... same boat. Controlling Luma isn't as difficult as it appears.

Piggybacking off of this particularly with the creativity aspect in mind, I'm going to add to there as well. He's gotten a bad rep as a braindead special-spamming character but on higher level play, that's not true at all. He has unreliable smashes, relatively slowish normals, but his projectile game can get really creative. There's aspects of the Can to memorize (which way it's going to shoot, how many shots it has left, how each attack interacts with it), mobility options (like foxtrotting while shooting a can to bait shields), and just a lot of traps overall that can be set up. Not to mention there's 5 different gunmen each with unique properties (and can even serve as walls against other projectiles) and the projectiles he has can interact amongst themselves (using a gunman to shoot a can forward for instance).

 

[Funkermonster]

Imo the ones with the steepest learning curves in the game:



Harder than average:
(of all characters, how can no one menton Ike?)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pac-Man, Sonic and Diddy are not hard to play at all.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Can't really speak for Sonic or Diddy, but Pac-Man definitely has a pretty high skill cap with hydrant launch setups, utilizing water, using other fruits besides just key, and side-B. He may be easy to pick up by throwing keys and offstage hydrants, but there's a lot more to master to take him to the next level.

 

[DavemanCozy]

, and both have projectiles that can be used to trap opponents. Learning how to create these setups is tricky. MM especially since his moveset is just so different from everyone's.

I feel like are in the same boat with their projectile game. Their neutral game is also not very intuitive to adjust to.

and her Luma aren't very easy to get into. Her moveset is also not very intuitive.

and actually need to try now. Olimar is especially tricky, his Pikmin nerf makes him much harder this time around, considering most of his aerials, his grab and smashes need pikmin.

is quite arguably one of the hardest, his Monado Arts are all an integral part of his game that make him very different.

is on the same boat with being slow, though easier to get into than Shulk.

 

[Starkiller2]

Shulk's Monado Arts are definitely the key to "unlocking" him, he is the first that comes to my mind. I'd put Rosaluma up there too, mastering Luma's positioning leads to a huge power spike. If you've played League of Legends, playing Rosaluma is like playing Orianna.

Pretty much agree with everyone here, but I don't see projectile heavy characters as exceptionally deep, just more advantaged than others. Sure the projectiles make them deeper characters but not as deep as Rosaluma or Shulk imo.

 

[Utena]

has a very high skill cap, because you need to be creative with your floats and aerials.

She plays almost the same as in brawl, just less technical because of AT removal, especially glide tossing.

 

[Burnsy]

Pac-Man, Sonic and Diddy are not hard to play at all.

This thread is about who is the character with the highest skill cap. Show me someone who has completey mastered the ins-and-outs of any of those characters, especially Pac-Man and Sonic. Its not about how easy they are to use, its about how much you can potentially learn to do with them.

 

[MarioFireRed]

This is probably just my bias, and bandwagon, talking but I sincerely believe has one of the hardest learning curves in the game.

Including his Monado Arts, you have to juggle six different types of characters using one moveset and learn which one is best used for the current situation in every single match. They have a set order in when each Art comes out but switching between each Arts takes a bit of time to get used to (although the Wii U version helps this by actively showing which MArt your Shulk is currently equipped). Don't forget that each Art is only active for a certain amount of time and needs to recharge before you can use it again, so that's another thing to keep in mind.

 

[warriorman222]

Depends. Want skill wall or skill ceiling?

 

[Blitzern]

Depends. Want skill wall or skill ceiling?

Ceiling IMO, is more important to know for the future.

 

[popsofctown]

I think it's probably Shulk since most of the arts seem viable and learning to play while using an art optimally is like learning a new matchup. (figuring out how to manage your arts is just skill wall though).
If he degenerates to 1 or 2 arts in high level play then that falls off but I don't think he will.

PT was probably the highest skill ceiling in Brawl for similar reasons.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Despite not using him myself I think Shulk is going to be nasty down the road. Having 5 Monado Arts to shift 'round is going to cause a lot of people to need to learn him inside and out.

I think Pikachu definitely has a decent learning curve. I've seen people pick up Pikachu and have no idea what the hell they're doing despite being good with other characters. You have to know how to do mixups with Pika and his flexibility also means you need to know what to use and when. Goes for most characters but it seems very apparently this time.

Also Pac-Man and Sonic are easy to use, lol.

Finally I think WFT, Mega Man, and Duck Hunt will be tricky for quite a few because their playstyles are not very much like a lot of characters.

 

[madworlder]

Can someone offer a more in-depth explanation to WFT being particularly difficult? I'm new to Smash and I've had no trouble using her outside of her short grab range and sometimes whiffing short characters with moves like jab and side smash (which is easily remedied by instead using things like reverse fair and down smash)

 

[Road Death Wheel]

She plays almost the same as in brawl, just less technical because of AT removal, especially glide tossing.

lol seriously? its like you came into this thread with no intention of answering the op. just bring out ur opinion on somthing unrelated.

 

[kyxsune]

I'm gonna say zelda on the grounds that i think she can be great, but has to be used in such a precise manner for the entirety of the match to be any good.

 

[busken]

@Dark.Pch can agree with me that Peach has the highest skill cap as she is the most technical character in the game. You need to master and know all of her techniques to be successful such as floating, edge guarding, spacing, approach, turnips, and all of her aerial attacks. The amount of time, patience, and knowledge needed to master this character easily makes her have one of the highest learning curves in the game.

 

[Untouch]

Shulk. Shulk has so much to him right now. Watch trela play. Mastering when to use the monado arts quickly is really important.

Though I find it so hard to play WFT right, her hitboxes are just so small. I feel that's more of a wall than a ceiling though.