Character Exploration Thread - Day 79: Axel Stone (Streets of Rage)

[Gengar84]

I hate the way Hero has got people expecting completely different characters to be alts of each other. Composite ARMS, Crash and Coco, Reimu and Marisa, Phoenix and Edgeworth, Frisk and Kris, I've even heard Dante and Vergil.

Off topic rant aside, what could Reimu's stage be?

Alright, now I’m obligated to post my counter-rant because I hate how people always get so offended at the thought of anyone suggesting alts or even asking a simple question about them.

Like I said, I know nothing about Touhou so I wasn’t expecting anything, just asking a question. Olimar/Alph and Bowser Jr. we’re both before Hero so I wouldn’t say it was because of him. The Koopa kids also played differently from each other in the actual Mario games so I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. Alph and Olimar had some differences as well. Honestly, my perspective isn’t really influenced by Hero at all and not even really by Olimar or Bowser Jr. either. I had the idea of Bill Rizer and Lance Bean from Contra as well as the Battletoads as alts long before even Bowser Jr. was revealed.

I spent several years modding Brawl so I’m just used to the idea of multiple characters sharing a slot. I had Captain Falcon, Blaziken, Ryu, Sub-Zero, and the Battletoads all over one slot and it felt pretty normal. I know mods are totally different than official characters and that would never actually happen but it is why I’m not bothered by the idea. I don’t know why this triggers so many people.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Off topic rant aside, what could Reimu's stage be?

Glad you ask, don't know if you have seen my stage concept yet but here it is

Touhou Project
Stage
Gensokyo

(Note; this is not the official map of Gensokyo, it is just used to visualized the place in full scope)

Gensokyo is the main location where most of the event of Touhou takes place in, the place is inhabited by powerful yo-kai as well as humans and which eventually sealed off from the Outside World with the creation of the Great Hakurei Barrier and existed in a parallel timeline where some location, with some example like the Scarlet Devil Mansion and the Great Mausoleum were started appearing after its existence were forgotten. So far there are some character that can access or even from the outside world, these includes humans like Sanae Kochiya and Sumireko Usami with yo-kai such as Yukari Yakumo and Mamizou Futatsuiwa can easily walk in and out with Yukari using her gap power to do the job.


As a Stage
​

MAIN ROUTE
Hakurei Shrine -- Scarlet Devil Mansion -- Human Village -- Bamboo Forest of the Lost -- Yo-kai Mountain -- Netherworld​

Gensokyo is a traveling stage like Yggdrasil Altar where it let player travel around several iconic location associated with each entry in the bullet hell series, this captured the true feeling of Touhou and its gameplay where it mostly takes place in the sky so it's pretty necessary for it to be a traveling stage, several cameo from other character will appear similar to the Tasofro fighting game but mostly tied to a specific location that we're on at the moment, a few example include Sakuya, Remilia and Flandre appearing in the Scarlet Devil Mansion section and Rinnosuke and Marisa appearing in the Human Village with Marisa being a frequent customer of Kourindou.​

Hakurei Shrine

The main home of Reimu Hakurei and the starting point for every game in the series which fits perfectly as the first location, the layout itself is a flat stage similar to the KoF Stadium only with no invisible walls and has walk-off, overall it's a simple stage.


Scarlet Devil Mansion

The second location of the stage and serve as the main location of the event of the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, the first Touhou game for Windows and probably the most popular inside and outside of the fanbase. The stage is presented as if you are approaching towards it, through the gate and inside the mansion where we can see the library and existed from the clocktower.

Human Village

The third location is the human village served as half of the setting of the event of Imperishable Night, like the name implied it is a location inhabit by mostly humans under the protection shrine maiden and exorcist like Reimu which keep them away from being killed by yo-kai.


Bamboo Forest of the Lost

Continuing from the Human Village we go straight into the forest served as the fourth location, it mostly a filler up until we got to Eintei and just like last time go in and invade the privacy of the resident.


Yo-kai Mountain

The second to last location were visiting and this one specifically is the main setting for Mountain of Faith, here we scour through from the feet to the top of the mountain where we can see the titular rival shrine, Moriya Shrine and the lake flowing down the mountain down below before plummeting down under.

Netherworld

The final destination of the stage before repeat once, this location, while not a specific location but rather a whole area has been a reoccurring place ever since Perfect Cherry Blossom.

I feel like a Touhou stage need to takes place in the middle of the sky, my concept of it visiting different locations is more linier and has no dropping point other than the Shrine which makes the team easier to implement.

I don’t know why the simple suggestion or even question of alts triggers so many people.

Might be because it's infuriating to see them suggesting a character who from the outside is already really different and just force it in, take Marisa for example who already have several obvious difference like having a broom which she uses as her weapon while also her method of flying or another one involving Coco who is more shorter and has a neck. Everyone need to think that in order for that to work is the character have to be a blank slate that they wouldn't overlapped in terms of personality.

 

[SharkLord]

Not really, for alts there's no character that fit the same mold as Reimu other than herself, for semi clones however Sanae Kochiya who's from a rival shrine could work.

Say other than Reimu and Marisa is there any viable option for another Touhou rep? My mind always goes to Sakuya by sheer popularity alone.

Marisa's the obvious one, being the other main character of the series. After that, Sakuya, Sanae, and Youmu are pretty consistent recurring characters too, with the former also getting some extra point for having Night of Nights being based on one of her themes. Cirno and Flandre get some points for the sheer meme energy they've developed.

Alternatively, Mima just to %$#@ with everyone.

 

[Gengar84]

Glad you ask, don't know if you have seen my stage concept yet but here it is

I feel like a Touhou stage need to takes place in the middle of the sky, my concept of it visiting different locations is more linier and has no dropping point other than the Shrine which makes the team easier to implement.



Might be because it's infuriating to see them suggesting a character who from the outside is already really different and just force it in, take Marisa for example who already have several obvious like having a broom which she uses as her weapon while also her method of flying or another one involving Coco which is more shorter and has a neck.

Then might I suggest people chill out and not take things so seriously? If something like this upsets you then I don’t know what to tell you. Instead of getting angry, how about discussing why something like that wouldn’t work in that case. It’s just a game so I don’t know why something as innocent as that gets to people. Besides, this thread was supposed to be meant to educate people who don’t know any better. Responses like that won’t encourage people to ask questions.

 

[SharkLord]

Alright, now I’m obligated to post my counter-rant because I hate how people always get so offended at the thought of anyone suggesting alts or even asking a simple question about them.

Like I said, I know nothing about Touhou so I wasn’t expecting anything, just asking a question. Olimar/Alph and Bowser Jr. we’re both before Hero so I wouldn’t say it was because of him. The Koopa kids also played differently from each other in the actual Mario games so I don’t think it’s that big of an issue. Alph and Olimar had some differences as well. Honestly, my perspective isn’t really influenced by Hero at all and not even really by Olimar or Bowser Jr. either. I had the idea of Bill Rizer and Lance Bean from Contra as well as the Battletoads as alts long before even Bowser Jr. was revealed.

I spent several years modding Brawl so I’m just used to the idea of multiple characters sharing a slot. I had Captain Falcon, Blaziken, Ryu, Sub-Zero, and the Battletoads all over one slot and it felt pretty normal. I know mods are totally different than official characters and that would never actually happen but it is why I’m not bothered by the idea. I don’t know why this triggers so many people.

I think it's just a matter of different perspectives. As you said, you spent years modding Brawl, so characters sharing a slot and moveset has become normalized for you. Other people haven't been part of the modding community, though, and so it doesn't feel normal to them the way it feels to you. They feel like the character's potential is being squandered, or that they just don't fit right and would work better as their own thing.

Basically, your standards of what's allowed for alts is a lot lower than a lot of other people because you've spent more time in Brawl mods and are more used to it. I think your mind is just naturally inclined to look for people to stack on others because of those mods. At least, that's my theory.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it's just a matter of different perspectives. As you said, you spent years modding Brawl, so characters sharing a slot and moveset has become normalized for you. Other people haven't been part of the modding community, though, and so it doesn't feel normal to them the way it feels to you. They feel like the character's potential is being squandered, or that they just don't fit right and would work better as their own thing.

Basically, your standards of what's allowed for alts is a lot lower than a lot of other people because you've spent more time in Brawl mods and are more used to it. I think your mind is just naturally inclined to look for people to stack on others because of those mods. At least, that's my theory.

Well said. I think that is the case as well. I have absolutely no problems with people disagreeing with the idea but the thought that it makes people physically upset is pretty silly to me. Feel free to think what you want but try not to put people down for having a different perspective from you. Also, don’t assume the reason people think that way is the same. There are more reasons for thinking about alts other than just Hero.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Then might I suggest you chill out and not take things so seriously? If something like this upsets you then I don’t know what to tell you. Instead of getting angry, how about discussing why something like that wouldn’t work in that case. It’s just a game so I don’t know why something as innocent as that gets to people. Besides, this thread was supposed to be meant to educate people who don’t know any better. Responses like that won’t encourage people to ask questions.

Literally I write that as a scarcasm, the thought of someone thinking of an alt for a character that vastly different is equally frustrating and hilarious, it's like fitting a hexagon into a circle.

There are more reasons for thinking about alts other than just Hero.

I think the decision has always comes down to moveset similarities, that's why everyone suggest Shadow instead of Metal Sonic as he is pretty 1-on-1 with Sonic with no additional ability like dig, use a weapon, fly upward or shoot a laser other than Chaos Emerald which anyone in the series could use or interact.

 

[SharkLord]

On the topic of Sanae, while she does have a gohei and talismans (Albeit of different designs that Reimu's), they still have a fair bit of differences. Let's discuss what those two can do, shall we?

On Reimu's side:

• Reimu uses Yin-Yang Orbs as her Options. They can also be used as bouncing projectiles themselves, which are a nod to the very first Touhou game.
• Reimu's talismans home in on opponents. She also has the Persuasion Needles, which are straight-moving and stronger projectiles.
• Reimu has the "power to float," which is more or less Ultra Instinct and explains the uncanny dodging skills needed for Touhou. It also is used in her most powerful technique, Fantasy Nature, where she floats away from reality itself and... Well, the exact effects are up to interpretation.

On Sanae's side:

• Sanae's Options aren't as notable, and don't bounce like the Yin-Yang Orbs. However, she can also invoke her two patron deities, Kanako and Suwako, to aid her in combat. Reimu can invoke any sort of god, but she never really uses that ability, beyond that one time in Silent Sinner in Blue.
• Sanae doesn't have homing talismans. She does, however, have wide-reaching frogs and tracking snakes, at least in UM. The snakes, in particular, are a massive boon to unskilled players.
• Sanae has the "ability to perform miracles;" That is, making unlikely thing happen, both good or bad, like making it rain frogs. The amount of time needed to prepare is equivalent to the scope of the miracle.

So basically Sanae throws a bunch of frogs at you and so we can't have her be any closer to Reimu than a semiclone because Reimu doesn't have frogs.

 

[Gengar84]

Literally I write that as a scarcasm, the thought of someone thinking of an alt for a character that vastly different is equally frustrating and hilarious, it's like fitting a hexagon into a circle.

I think the decision has always comes down to moveset similarities, that's why everyone suggest Shadow instead of Metal Sonic as he is pretty 1-on-1 with Sonic with no additional ability like dig, use a weapon, fly upward or shoot a laser other than Chaos Emerald which anyone in the series could use or interact.

Lol no worries. Sarcasm can be hard to translate online sometimes. I didn’t mean that to be directed at you like it first came out. I just think people shouldn’t get so worked up about something that doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s just an innocent question from someone that doesn’t know any better. I honestly never cared about Touhou, I was just trying to make conversation. I’ll be sure never to ask about alts again.

 

[SharkLord]

Lol no worries. Sarcasm can be hard to translate online sometimes. I didn’t mean that to be directed at you like it first came out. I just think people shouldn’t get so worked up about something that doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme of things. It’s just an innocent question from someone that doesn’t know any better. I honestly never cared about Touhou, I was just trying to make conversation. I’ll be sure never to ask about alts again.

I mean, innocent questions are fine. You haven't been really adamant about making someone into an alt; This just seems like an honest misunderstanding we can move past.

Anyways, two updates. The first is that the majority wants Ayumi's day pushed back to some degree, with the majority being two weeks. Therefore, we shall do that, with her day being replaced by Tom Nook, who was part of the tiebreaker with Phoenix. The second is that we'll be extending Reimu's day, as she still has discussion going on. This time, it will be by 12 hours instead of a full day; We'll see if she should be extended another half-day at around 8 PM-ish PST. If that extention goes through, don't worry; 48 hours total is the maximum time we'll allow.

 

[SKX31]

I'm pretty sure this question has come up a lot, but still:

Is there a clear frontrunner when it comes to Reimu's potential stage? If there is one, would it lean more towards the simpler side, or would it be built for chaotic FFAs primarily?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm pretty sure this question has come up a lot, but still:

Is there a clear frontrunner when it comes to Reimu's potential stage? If there is one, would it lean more towards the simpler side, or would it be built for chaotic FFAs primarily?

I think it might be relatively simple

 

[SharkLord]

I'm pretty sure this question has come up a lot, but still:

Is there a clear frontrunner when it comes to Reimu's potential stage? If there is one, would it lean more towards the simpler side, or would it be built for chaotic FFAs primarily?

The most likely candidate is the Hakurei Shrine, which Reimu is in charge of running.

It's also her home and base of operations, and so it appears constantly in the prologues and/or first stages of the shooters, and is also a constant of the fighters. It's also usually here whenever the final bosses become Reimu's friend and crash at her place in the epilogues. Be it solo or part of a traveling stage like Commander_Alph suggested, I'm 99% sure this will be at least part of a Touhou pack's stage in some way.

As for the layout, I'd imagine it'd be mostly simple, though I'd imagine you could also stand on the shrine's roof. Personally, I think it'd be cool if there were sub-platforms that arranged themselves in ways that reference the Option positions from throughout the series. There's also the idea of cameos taking the form of bullet hell patterns, which would make it extra chaotic in that scenario.

 

[zferolie]

I have a lot of stuff to say about best miko, but cant till later. For now I'll say i feel she is probably the most likely indie character, because of just how massive and influencing it is for the Japanese

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Most likely Hakurei Shrine. Other stages could be Nuclear Furnace, Scarlet Devil Mansion, and Border of Life. But there's tons of locations in Touhou, so there's several possibilities.

Oh, oh, oh! What if we trespass on the Tengu's territory again by having a stage be the Youkai Mountain? Imagine how pissed off they'll be and how much extra bullets will be flying around...!

Also, "Border of Life"? Did you mean Hakugyokurou?

 

[Ruler of Subspace]

Oh, oh, oh! What if we trespass on the Tengu's territory again by having a stage be the Youkai Mountain? Imagine how pissed off they'll be and how much extra bullets will be flying around...!

Also, "Border of Life"? Did you mean Hakugyokurou?

Maybe. I was looking at the Rivals of Aether workshop to get more stage ideas because I don't know many locations. I found this stage that looked pretty good.

 

[SharkLord]

Maybe. I was looking at the Rivals of Aether workshop to get more stage ideas because I don't know many locations. I found this stage that looked pretty good.
View attachment 315245

Seeing as it's based off of Perfect Cherry Blossom and named after the final boss theme from said game, yeah, probably Hakugyokurou. If my memory serves me right, it's s[ecifically where you fight the Prismriver Sisters.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Maybe. I was looking at the Rivals of Aether workshop to get more stage ideas because I don't know many locations. I found this stage that looked pretty good.
View attachment 315245

Ah, I see. That particular location was the closest one that I can think of because that is where Youmu and Yuyuko (top left) reside, and because those the names of Yuyuko's themes from the 7th game, Perfect Cherry Blossom.

 

[PeridotGX]

Who could a Touhou AT be? The girl with Marx wings, maybe?

... regardless of who they are, what they do is pretty obvious. They cause a bullet hell pattern.

 

[Ruler of Subspace]

The girl with Marx wings, maybe?

That's Flandre Scarlet

Who could a Touhou AT be? The girl with Marx wings, maybe?

... regardless of who they are, what they do is pretty obvious. They cause a bullet hell pattern.

If Cirno couldn't be playable, then I'd say her. She's one of the easier bosses imo, but here's some other opinions from other people. Unfair/OP assist trophies usually piss me off and many would probably feel the same, so I'd say the easier bosses are fair to put in as Assists.

 

[Ruler of Subspace]

Would it be fitting to add Utsuho Reiuji as a Mii Gunner costume? The control rod makes me feel like she's perfect for it lol

 

[Commander_Alph]

A great contender of an AT will probably go to either Flandre, the series most popular one off character, literally the Geno of Touhou or Cirno which i actually lean into due to her simple bullet pattern and make her gimmick based of Fairy Wars, the game where she's the main character.



For costume, Utsuho is a no brainer I would like to see Sakurai apply physics to her wings, either Meiling or Ibaraki but I felt like with the inclusion of the Martial Artist from DQ Ibaraki is the best choice for diversity.

 

[zferolie]

For an AT, FLandre makes a lot of sense. I do think Maria would be a prime character as well, stealing items, and firering Master sparks.

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Would it be fitting to add Utsuho Reiuji as a Mii Gunner costume? The control rod makes me feel like she's perfect for it lol

Honestly? I think Reisen is more fitting, seeing as she has an actual gun. Though, Utsuho would be a hilarious candidate.

 

[zferolie]

Honestly? I think Reisen is more fitting, seeing as she has an actual gun. Though, Utsuho would be a hilarious candidate.

Why not both? I love both so I want both

 

[Paraster]

Who would the best choice for a Legend spirit for Reimu's Spirit Board be?

Would it be Marisa, the second most important character in the series?

Would it be someone incredibly powerful and/or important to Gensokyo's mythology? If so, who, and what is that character's importance?

Would they take the XB2 approach and do both of the above (Marisa likely being a Primary while the second acts as the requisite "Support with a unique skill"?)

 

[Commander_Alph]

Who would the best choice for a Legend spirit for Reimu's Spirit Board be?

It has to be Yukari

 

[SharkLord]

Who would the best choice for a Legend spirit for Reimu's Spirit Board be?

Would it be Marisa, the second most important character in the series?

Would it be someone incredibly powerful and/or important to Gensokyo's mythology? If so, who, and what is that character's importance?

Would they take the XB2 approach and do both of the above (Marisa likely being a Primary while the second acts as the requisite "Support with a unique skill"?)

Most likely Yukari. Extremely powerful, recurring character, one of the highest authorities in Gensokyo, and basically Reimu's employer. Not to mention the fact that she's the only Phantasm boss in the entire series, which would put her above all those infamous Extra Bosses you keep hearing about. There's a reason her spell card "Boundary of Life and Death" is an iconic shot for bullet hells.

 

[Paraster]

Most likely Yukari. Extremely powerful, recurring character, one of the highest authorities in Gensokyo, and basically Reimu's employer. Not to mention the fact that she's the only Phantasm boss in the entire series, which would put her above all those infamous Extra Bosses you keep hearing about. There's a reason her spell card "Boundary of Life and Death" is an iconic shot for bullet hells.
View attachment 315265

Makes sense. Skimming over her wiki page, though, I'm having trouble discerning what a good skill for her would be with how broad her powers are.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Makes sense. Skimming over her wiki page, though, I'm having trouble discerning what a good skill for her would be with how broad her powers are.

Probably have Fox and Isabelle represent her familiar and her familiar's familiar Ran and Chen, other than that you could make her condition gives you sudden damage and heal you simultaneously.

 

[zferolie]

yeah I think Yukari would be the most likely Legendary Spirit, given her importance, and also how OP she is in the world

 

[SharkLord]

Makes sense. Skimming over her wiki page, though, I'm having trouble discerning what a good skill for her would be with how broad her powers are.

The one I went with for my Touhou pack was having an Assist Trophy equipped, since she has a shikigami in Ran (Who herself also has a shikigami; Chen). Alternatively, maybe giving the character she's equipped to immunity to projectiles, to reflect both Touhou's fricky bullet hell and her immense power.

 

[PeridotGX]

We'll see if she should be extended another half-day at around 8 PM-ish PST. If that extention goes through, don't worry; 48 hours total is the maximum time we'll allow.

have we decided?

 

[GolisoPower]

Question, guys: how would a Classic Mode work? I'm thinking it'd be an all-female classic mode involving projectile-heavy girls like , , , , and . It could even have a name that wouldn't sound out of place as a Touhou title like "Radiance of Chromatic Cross" or something. That sound good?

 

[Perkilator]

Question, guys: how would a Classic Mode work? I'm thinking it'd be an all-female classic mode involving projectile-heavy girls like , , , , and . It could even have a name that wouldn't sound out of place as a Touhou title like "Radiance of Chromatic Cross" or something. That sound good?

Here was my idea from back in 2019:


Dangan Jigoku Smash (fights characters from games where shooting things is the main focus, or at least part of it)
Round 1: on Corneria (Corneria (Brawl))
Round 2: on (Brinstar (Brawl))
Round 3: on Moray Towers (Bomb Rush Blush)
Round 4: on (Battle in the Base)
Round 5: on Umbra Clock Tower (One of a Kind)
Round 6: on Wily Castle (Napalm Man Stage)
Final Round: Marx (UN Owen Was Her (New Remix))

 

[Paraster]

Question, guys: how would a Classic Mode work? I'm thinking it'd be an all-female classic mode involving projectile-heavy girls like , , , , and . It could even have a name that wouldn't sound out of place as a Touhou title like "Radiance of Chromatic Cross" or something. That sound good?

I've seen at least one, maybe two, concepts based on the bosses of a certain game (pretty sure the game in question was Embodiment of Scarlet Devil for both; I think they had Dracula for Remilia and/or Marx for Flandre).

I like your idea, though, especially the title.

 

[SharkLord]

have we decided?

Discussion has been pretty consistent for Reimu. I'm giving her the second extension.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Oh yeah, I have a question, is there a difference between canon Reimu to fanon Reimu? I feel like the only thing I know is that the fanon take it to the extreme and then what will Sakurai prefer considering that fanon personality of Touhou character is another way to stay true to Touhou?

 

[Doremy's smug grin]

Oh yeah, I have a question, is there a difference between canon Reimu to fanon Reimu? I feel like the only thing I know is that the fanon take it to the extreme and then what will Sakurai prefer considering that fanon personality of Touhou character is another way to stay true to Touhou?

Yeah, she's only slightly more of a racist raging alcoholic in canon than in fanon lol

Serious answer: It's kinda hard to say. There's just so many interpretations of her in fanon that it's hard to give one definitive answer.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Yeah, she's only slightly more of a racist raging alcoholic in canon than in fanon lol

Serious answer: It's kinda hard to say. There's just so many interpretations of her in fanon that it's hard to give one definitive answer.

I felt like the only thing that consistent in her canon and fanon interpretation that her shrine can't get her any money so she's really poor, fanon take this up a notch by making her literally dying if she isn't given any money heck a nickel is enough for her to eat.



This probably narrow things down.