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Character Discussion Thread

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Con0rrrr

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I can safely agree with your entire final roster except for Dixie Kong simply because her big selling point--Tropical Freeze--may be too recent. Same with Lucas to a lesser extent, but I'll remain on the fence with these two for the time being. Outside of King K. Rool, there are several other possibilities that tend to suggest one thing or another outside the gematsu three. Dark Pit appearing at the end of Palutena's trailer and in her character poster may suggest him as a playable character. The Trophy quiz may tease at another Zelda newcomer (if one limits it to just the game Fi came from, it'd likely mean Ghirahim if that is the case, but I'm not going to grasp anymore straws). Or Sakurai's comments about resurrecting older franchises may even tease at a 100% strictly retro character even (Excitebiker/Mach Rider and Takamaru both come to mind among other things). And if I were to grasp some serious straws, I could technically even single out Jill or Isaac due to lack of Assist Trophies, though I find either of them highly unlikely regardless.

I guess for now, I am only saying that I do not fully agree with Dixie Kong or Lucas (especially if he winds up getting cut), but neither do I disagree that they shouldn't be in the game. But, hey? I stumbled upon a leak that says only Snake, Ivysaur and Squirtle will be cut, so let's wait and see what happens with him. For now, Ridley and Mewtwo seem to be locks to be added newcomers (though with Mewtwo, if he isn't in the final roster, then he'll be a lock for DLC).

As far as newcomers go, I completely agree with Captain Toad simply because he was teased as potential DLC. I don't think we'll get Paper Mario, though. I don't think Sakurai will go for two Mario DLC, and as cool as he might be, I don't think he's happening. I can see a Zelda rep if we don't get a newcomer in the final roster (it'd likely be Impa then, but who knows). Star Fox, I think is going to be out of the way, and the only way we'd get DLC from that series is if the next game introduces to us another highly significant character on the same page as Fox, Falco and Wolf (and even then, Krystal's games were hated by fans and critics, while Slippy just feels like a bit of a stretch). Your new IP reps seem like decent ideas for character DLC, but isn't Splatoon Second Party (I know Project: STEAM isn't)? And if Mewtwo is already in the Final Roster, Blaziken and/or Hawlucha seems to make the most sense for playable status (and no, there is no type clause in Pokémon; even if there was, I doubt Sakurai will take that under consideration when making DLC anyways; Blaziken and Hawlucha would fight drastically different than Charizard or Lucario anyways). Also, Lucas and Roy might make returns for DLC. So could Dixie Kong fit in if she doesn't get in the first time (she'd be more likely methinks than King K. Rool in the DLC department, anyways).

Other possible DLC based on existing franchises? Well...Hades would make a great unexpected entrance, wouldn't he? But beyond that, Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, Impa, Hades, Mewtwo (if he isn't in the first time)/Blaziken/Hawlucha, Roy, Lucas (if he is cut from the roster), Snake (a distant maybe, and only if a deal can be made with Kojima and Konami), and whatever new IP candidates we may wind up getting in the future.
Thank you for your response. Tropical Freeze would have actually began development around the time Smash did, if not a little before. If the case for TF being "too new" is real, then doesn't Greninja being in counter that?

Personally, I HIGHLY doubt that Dark Pit is a character. If he was, he would have had splash text in the Palutena trailer. Most likely scenario is that he is a special alt for Pit, or a stage Boss on Palutena's Temple. I also think a 4th Kirby rep should be given a spot before a 3rd Kid Icarus rep.

The Zelda newcomer used to be in the draft of my roster, but I put it in DLC instead to coincide with Zelda U. My theory for DLC is Nintendo using it to promote new titles coming out after Wii U launch.

Retro characters I believe to have already been covered Megaman (he is forgotten by Capcom ;)) and Pacman.

I would love Hawlucha as DLC, but personally see Sceptile being added. But I would rather of Hawlucha. A Physical Fighter with a grabbing game in the air would be cool. I feel like his moveset would be cloned from Ridley but in smaller form.
 
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CrusherMania1592

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Robin is a viable choice, but quite frankly a very overrated one.
Thank you! Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way

I can safely agree with your entire final roster except for Dixie Kong simply because her big selling point--Tropical Freeze--may be too recent.
Hi, Greninja is barely a year old, yet he's in. Just because a new game is "too recent" doesn't mean they cannot get in. Look at all the rumors going on about people like Shulk and Chrom for example. Sure, they are recent characters, but they are also highly requested and has the popularity, moveset, and support to back them up. Just give Dixie a shot as she's one of the characters who highly deserve to be in.
 

Weeman

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I love Hawlucha, but when did he become a thing for Smash? now i will not be able to take the depression of not seeing a RH Wrestler VS Hawlucha match :urg:
 

Weeman

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Robin is a viable choice, but quite frankly a very overrated one
Well i guess it's just the nature of the series having so many characters, as a Robin supporter i can't say i have seen people overrating his/her chances, at least not after E3.
 

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I hope Ness is back, he was my main in Brawl. But ya know, with Mr. Saturn and everything he's almost guaranteed. I also hope Lucas returns.:lucas::estatic:
 

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http://smashboards.com/threads/new-character-to-be-shown-monday.360788/page-42#post-17056627

SHULK confirmed tommorow I guess?

Worries me he still hasn't gotten any word of anymore newcomers, and apparently his source still has some inside knowledge, having said Shulk is tommorow.
Well Sal has spoken, not that people hadn't figured it out already :rolleyes:

I hope Ness is back, he was my main in Brawl. But ya know, with Mr. Saturn and everything he's almost guaranteed. I also hope Lucas returns.:lucas::estatic:
Sadly everything points out to him getting the axe, but we will not lose hope
 

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The Sal has spoken. Now my hype for being surprised is dead.

#MehMonday incoming
 

Joe D.

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I came for the speculation, stayed for the debates, DIDN'T ASK FOR SPOILERS BUT GOT THEM ANYWAY BECAUSE IT'S THE INTERNET.
 

Hong

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Shulk is being announced tomorrow!

OMG!

I would have never guessed!
 

Con0rrrr

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WAIT A MINUTE.

Treehouse people said they have had access to newer builds at E3. But they never explicitly said all of the characters... What if a treehouse rep is sal's leaker. Crazy I know, but here me out, it lines up.

If not a treehouse person, at least somehow involved near that area. It lines up 100%.

  • Treehouse gets builds every few months as said at E3, Sal leaked two different sets of characters... from different build maybe?
  • Treehouse people have some word in game development, they would know if Lucas was being debated
  • It's not too much of a stretch to assume that they tell Treehouse reps just a little in advance about the videos and announcements
  • They still have not received the final build of the game yet obviously, which would include secret characters. SO of course he would not know the rest.
  • This also explains why Sal's leaker hasn't given any context of who else is playable. IF he said he tried an early demo, then Nintendo would know exactly where those demos are... at the Treehouse!
  • I'm not saying it's one of those people at E3. I am saying that the most likely scenario at this point is that someone who at least works in that building is Sal's Leaker.
  • One of the BIGGEST reasons for this entire theory is how they knew about 5 characters at E3 LAST YEAR. They likely got a very early build and were just told some of these characters would be revealed at E3 2013. Sal's leaker then just takes all those characters, and sends them to Sal. BOOM.
This is an insane Theory that may be way out there, but after Sal's leaker knowing Shulk will be revealed tommorow, it just all fits together like puzzle pieces.
 
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SomewhatMystia

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WAIT A MINUTE.

Treehouse people said they have had access to newer builds at E3. But they never explicitly said all of the characters... What if a treehouse rep is sal's leaker. Crazy I know, but here me out, it lines up.

If not a treehouse person, at least somehow involved near that area. It lines up 100%.

  • Treehouse gets builds every few months as said at E3, Sal leaked two different sets of characters... from different build maybe?
  • Treehouse people have some word in game development, they would know if Lucas was being debated
  • It's not too much of a stretch to assume that they tell Treehouse reps just a little in advance about the videos and announcements
  • They still have not received the final build of the game yet obviously, which would include secret characters. SO of course he would not know the rest.
  • This also explains why Sal's leaker hasn't given any context of who else is playable. IF he said he tried an early demo, then Nintendo would know exactly where those demos are... at the Treehouse!
  • I'm not saying it's one of those people at E3. I am saying that the most likely scenario at this point is that someone who at least works in that building is Sal's Leaker.
  • One of the BIGGEST reasons for this entire theory is how they knew about 5 characters at E3 LAST YEAR. They likely got a very early build and were just told some of these characters would be revealed at E3 2013. Sal's leaker then just takes all those characters, and sends them to Sal. BOOM.
This is an insane Theory that may be way out there, but after Sal's leaker knowing Shulk will be revealed tommorow, it just all fits together like puzzle pieces.

... That's actually a really, really solid theory. I could actually see that being the case.
 

Opossum

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WAIT A MINUTE.

Treehouse people said they have had access to newer builds at E3. But they never explicitly said all of the characters... What if a treehouse rep is sal's leaker. Crazy I know, but here me out, it lines up.

If not a treehouse person, at least somehow involved near that area. It lines up 100%.

  • Treehouse gets builds every few months as said at E3, Sal leaked two different sets of characters... from different build maybe?
  • Treehouse people have some word in game development, they would know if Lucas was being debated
  • It's not too much of a stretch to assume that they tell Treehouse reps just a little in advance about the videos and announcements
  • They still have not received the final build of the game yet obviously, which would include secret characters. SO of course he would not know the rest.
  • This also explains why Sal's leaker hasn't given any context of who else is playable. IF he said he tried an early demo, then Nintendo would know exactly where those demos are... at the Treehouse!
  • I'm not saying it's one of those people at E3. I am saying that the most likely scenario at this point is that someone who at least works in that building is Sal's Leaker.
  • One of the BIGGEST reasons for this entire theory is how they knew about 5 characters at E3 LAST YEAR. They likely got a very early build and were just told some of these characters would be revealed at E3 2013. Sal's leaker then just takes all those characters, and sends them to Sal. BOOM.
This is an insane Theory that may be way out there, but after Sal's leaker knowing Shulk will be revealed tommorow, it just all fits together like puzzle pieces.
Minor nitpick, but at E3 2013, the leaker knew about six: Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man. :p
 

Captain Fun

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http://smashboards.com/threads/new-character-to-be-shown-monday.360788/page-42#post-17056627

SHULK confirmed tommorow I guess?

Worries me he still hasn't gotten any word of anymore newcomers, and apparently his source still has some inside knowledge, having said Shulk is tommorow.
Sal's source has spoken. I wonder how people would react if it was wrong? Although Shulk at this point is a very easy guess. I still believe the leak, but I think it's kind of weird how he came out pretty much after everyone else decided "yeah it's Shulk."
Gematsu has officially been proven wrong through the power of Attack on Titan, Entei, and lobsters.

Court dismissed, BRING OUT THE DANCING WALHARTS!

i am actually losing my **** guys omg send help
 

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Now you get to be hyped about seeing what silly hat Kirby will have when he eats Shulk.
I suppose.

I'm still excited, since another character is getting checked off the gematsu list. But maaaaan. I was expecting Shulk, but had a sliver of hope it wouldn't be him. Sal just blew up my personal hype train.
 

Hong

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WAIT A MINUTE.

Treehouse people said they have had access to newer builds at E3. But they never explicitly said all of the characters... What if a treehouse rep is sal's leaker. Crazy I know, but here me out, it lines up.

If not a treehouse person, at least somehow involved near that area. It lines up 100%.

  • Treehouse gets builds every few months as said at E3, Sal leaked two different sets of characters... from different build maybe?
  • Treehouse people have some word in game development, they would know if Lucas was being debated
  • It's not too much of a stretch to assume that they tell Treehouse reps just a little in advance about the videos and announcements
  • They still have not received the final build of the game yet obviously, which would include secret characters. SO of course he would not know the rest.
  • This also explains why Sal's leaker hasn't given any context of who else is playable. IF he said he tried an early demo, then Nintendo would know exactly where those demos are... at the Treehouse!
  • I'm not saying it's one of those people at E3. I am saying that the most likely scenario at this point is that someone who at least works in that building is Sal's Leaker.
  • One of the BIGGEST reasons for this entire theory is how they knew about 5 characters at E3 LAST YEAR. They likely got a very early build and were just told some of these characters would be revealed at E3 2013. Sal's leaker then just takes all those characters, and sends them to Sal. BOOM.
This is an insane Theory that may be way out there, but after Sal's leaker knowing Shulk will be revealed tommorow, it just all fits together like puzzle pieces.
I doubt it. Treehouse has the full roster by now, given that it's almost fall and this is a lot to localize.

That said, everything I said from before still applies. Between marketing and licensing, Treehouse has to hand off materials when they are ready to be seen by dozens of eyes internally.
 

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It sounds silly, but do you want to know why I'm excited for the Shulk reveal?

I finally get a decent Roster Icon of him. :p
 

Weeman

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Heh this is probably the most meaningless leak we've gotten from Sal so far, yet watch it as it adds another layer for people to patronize those who still have doubts about it.
 
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Con0rrrr

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I doubt it. Treehouse has the full roster by now, given that it's almost fall and this is a lot to localize.

That said, everything I said from before still applies. Between marketing and licensing, Treehouse has to hand off materials when they are ready to be seen by dozens of eyes internally.
What I'm saying is that they soon will receive a near finished build with the remaining characters on it. Last time Sal leaked he said they were still debating Lucas, meaning they hadn't seen the full roster yet let alone a near final build. I see your point, but my theory still makes sense given what they know about the roster.
 

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Doesn't Shulk have some sort of abilty to see the future? If they could somehow link that to Mewtwo's psychic powers and reveal him in the same trailer, my excitement would return on the spot.

Even if that doesn't happen, I've heard that Xenoblade is a beautiful game, so I'm sure his trailer will be epic and majestic as ****.
 

Hong

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What I'm saying is that they soon will receive a near finished build with the remaining characters on it. Last time Sal leaked he said they were still debating Lucas, meaning they hadn't seen the full roster yet let alone a near final build. I see your point, but my theory still makes sense given what they know about the roster.
I get what you're saying.

Since implied Shulk and Chrom require voice acting in addition to textual updates, it's immensely precarious for them to not have the full roster well in advance. This is something you need to book WAY in advance, since these people (voice talent) are generally high in demand and have very busy lives, not to mention there is the matter of implementation. This ties in with the timing of Shulk's VA making that tweet, given the timing.

And yeah, it's possible for both licensing and marketing to take hints on potential internal struggles. They may have had to prepare materials or licensing for Mother 3 (which had a different developer than Mother 2), but found out it would not be in use.

I'm not saying your claim is impossible, but Treehouse is a very tight-knit and isolated environment. Meanwhile, someone in marketing or licensing will just be one of many who get their hands on this information. Given how late the information is leaked, compared to the time it takes for localization, given the differences in corporate anonymity, I would say it's a much safer guess.

I mean, at the very least someone from Treehouse would be able to clarify the leak's earlier lack of information in Rosalina and Greninja.
 

Con0rrrr

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I get what you're saying.

Since implied Shulk and Chrom require voice acting in addition to textual updates, it's immensely precarious for them to not have the full roster well in advance. This is something you need to book WAY in advance, since these people (voice talent) are generally high in demand and have very busy lives, not to mention there is the matter of implementation. This ties in with the timing of Shulk's VA making that tweet, given the timing.

And yeah, it's possible for both licensing and marketing to take hints on potential internal struggles. They may have had to prepare materials or licensing for Mother 3 (which had a different developer than Mother 2), but found out it would not be in use.

I'm not saying your claim is impossible, but Treehouse is a very tight-knit and isolated environment. Meanwhile, someone in marketing or licensing will just be one of many who get their hands on this information. Given how late the information is leaked, compared to the time it takes for localization, given the differences in corporate anonymity, I would say it's a much safer guess.

I mean, at the very least someone from Treehouse would be able to clarify the leak's earlier lack of information in Rosalina and Greninja.
I use the term Treehouse loosely. They work at Nntendo Headquarters correct? Then someone from there.

Rosalina is also explained by this theory. They simply were never given a build with him before she was revealed so she was a surprise.
 

epicgordan

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Thank you for your response. Tropical Freeze would have actually began development around the time Smash did, if not a little before. If the case for TF being "too new" is real, then doesn't Greninja being in counter that?
Greninja's advantage stems from the fact that Sakurai had developed a very strong relationship with Gamefreak over the years thanks to Smash Brothers, and due to their trust with one another, Gamefreak made privy some of the production notes to Sakurai. Now, I'm not so sure how that will translate over in regards to the people that made Tropical Freeze, but either way, I'm going to keep my options for character 51--and possibly 50 depending on Lucas' fate; 49 too if Mewtwo winds up being DLC instead.
Personally, I HIGHLY doubt that Dark Pit is a character. If he was, he would have had splash text in the Palutena trailer. Most likely scenario is that he is a special alt for Pit, or a stage Boss on Palutena's Temple. I also think a 4th Kirby rep should be given a spot before a 3rd Kid Icarus rep.
Again, I am grasping a few straws here, but for all we know, Dark Pit may just be a tease. I doubt it too, but I am looking at possibilities. As for Kirby, not only do I not think Sakurai will try to go for four playable Kirby characters unless he REALLY wants Bandana Dee in, but I think Kid Icarus, while nowhere near as big or as well-known as Kirby, actually has far more fuel for additional characters than Kirby does. As far as the represented characters from said franchise is concerned, Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede pretty much covers all the important characters similar to Star Fox. At least Hades is the last important character and a scene-stealer in Uprising--left in the Kid Icarus games not named Dark Pit.

Other franchises have shown that size doesn't guarantee more characters. Unless you're Mario, Zelda, or Pokémon in which case, there's plenty to go around (and even then with the second one, it appears they may very well have hit that snag).

The Zelda newcomer used to be in the draft of my roster, but I put it in DLC instead to coincide with Zelda U. My theory for DLC is Nintendo using it to promote new titles coming out after Wii U launch.
Understandable, but if the 3DS limitations are anything to go by, it likely means that we'll receive a limited amount of character DLC in general, so I doubt that Sakurai will just keep going. Zelda is still strong for DLC content, mind you, so I won't argue with that. But for the long-term, if they want to keep dishing out DLC characters, the best solution would have to capitalize on the Amiibo technology. Otherwise, I expect the number of character DLC to be extremely limiting (no more than 10 tops). And we'll probably see the last of these character DLC by late 2015 to early-mid 2016. Maybe we'll get Zelda Wii U by then. Maybe not.

Retro characters I believe to have already been covered Megaman (he is forgotten by Capcom ;)) and Pacman.
Allow me to specify; I mean characters that haven't had any representation at all in well over a decade. Or characters that are stuck in a particular decade. Can you think of any heavily recent games in the Duck Hunt "series" that came out recently? Boom! Duck Hunt Dog is now playable as a joke/retro character who too carries significance in Nintendo's history. Mega Man and Pac-Man have at least had games come out in the last five years. I'm talking more like a comparison to characters like Ice Climbers in Melee, or at the time, Pit in Brawl. Or if you want to add the joke label as well, Mr. Game & Watch in Melee, and R.O.B. in Brawl (btw, I do not count cameos or guests in spinoffs either, and I am referring to as well, the characters that were not prominent when they first joined the fight).

I would love Hawlucha as DLC, but personally see Sceptile being added. But I would rather of Hawlucha. A Physical Fighter with a grabbing game in the air would be cool. I feel like his moveset would be cloned from Ridley but in smaller form.
I admit that Hawlucha is a distant possibility to Mewtwo (IF he's not on the fial roster) and Blaziken. But even if one applies the starter trio, I think that Sakurai would just go with Blaziken anyways as promotional tie-ins to the third gen remakes since he is essentially the face of gen three, and he'd have a unique moveset to Charizard and Lucario anyways. Hawlucha, on the other hand, can be read as a pre-emptive decision since his popularity wasn't foreseen, but even then, a distant second or third in consideration for DLC to Mewtwo or Blaziken.
 

Hong

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I use the term Treehouse loosely. They work at Nntendo Headquarters correct? Then someone from there.

Rosalina is also explained by this theory. They simply were never given a build with him before she was revealed so she was a surprise.
Yeah, though Treehouse itself is relatively moderate in size. So much that Nintendo hires outside help for a lot of games that may take a lot of work as a result, such as Fire Emblem: Awakeing and 8-4 Ltd. Sometimes, anyway. They handled New Leaf, for all its text, but mostly due to its release window.

I just think it would be very risky to repeatedly leak information being in such a tight team, that is so sacred that it has extensive surveillance and is locked out from 98% of the internal staff. Meanwhile, since their team is so small, of course they won't be handling the creation of promotional material, so it would make a lot of sense given the timing of leaks.

Of course it's entirely possible that someone from Treehouse goes home and just sends it off to Sal Romano at the end of the day. It's possible, but I think it is the less likely possibility. Guess the way it is leaked does not matter, so much as it is being leaked anyway.
 
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Sal said the email read "Enjoy my good friend Shulk"
his good friend
sals leaker is reyn confirmed
 

Thedude3445

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What I'm saying is that they soon will receive a near finished build with the remaining characters on it. Last time Sal leaked he said they were still debating Lucas, meaning they hadn't seen the full roster yet let alone a near final build. I see your point, but my theory still makes sense given what they know about the roster.
I think the Treehouse had the final roster build way prior to E3. If you watch some of the Treehouse videos, sometimes they will offhandedly mention how massive the roster is, and how much stuff there is to unlock, in ways that don't sound scripted (you can usually tell the scripted parts really easily). If the leaker is part of the Treehouse, then they have already stopped giving us any new character information and probably won't do it again besides cases like these, where they just want to spoil us ahead of time. I honestly hope this is the case, because I really don't want this leaker to give us the full roster before September; I'm already prepared to go into hiding to avoid spoilers around September 7th, when the Japanese version inevitably breaks street date, so any earlier will catch me off-guard and spoil everything before I can get away from it.
 

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Sal said the email read "Enjoy my good friend Shulk"
his good friend
sals leaker is reyn confirmed
I don't know, it could be Riki. Maybe he's an Assist Trophy and has access to information direct from the source.
 

Hong

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Well, for all technicalities, we can't talk about how it was leaked too much. We have to keep this thread about characters. :)

I'm more concerned about the existing roster at this point.

Falco, Wolf, or both? What will we get?

If only one, I kind of hope for Wolf, since I find he offers a greater level of contrast than Falco.
 

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Jedisupersonic
3DS FC
4871-3983-7566
Well, for all technicalities, we can't talk about how it was leaked too much. We have to keep this thread about characters. :)

I'm more concerned about the existing roster at this point.

Falco, Wolf, or both? What will we get?

If only one, I kind of hope for Wolf, since I find he offers a greater level of contrast than Falco.
I'm thinking we'll get both again.
 

~Krystal~

True American Heroine
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
3,124
Location
Texas
If either of them appear, I would like a total rework. Wolf is closer to being a unique character than Falco is, but regardless, I want them to go the extra mile for both of them.
 

Thedude3445

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
199
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Understandable, but if the 3DS limitations are anything to go by, it likely means that we'll receive a limited amount of character DLC in general, so I doubt that Sakurai will just keep going. Zelda is still strong for DLC content, mind you, so I won't argue with that. But for the long-term, if they want to keep dishing out DLC characters, the best solution would have to capitalize on the Amiibo technology. Otherwise, I expect the number of character DLC to be extremely limiting (no more than 10 tops). And we'll probably see the last of these character DLC by late 2015 to early-mid 2016. Maybe we'll get Zelda Wii U by then. Maybe not.
Hmm... What limitations would make the 3DS responsible for only a little DLC? Fire Emblem Awakening and Mario Golf are both good examples of how the 3DS can have both a ton of DLC, and character DLC that I believe is online-enabled (I haven't played Mario Golf, so correct me if I'm wrong). All Smash would have to do is load the DLC as you start up the game, rather than at a DLC screen like Fire Emblem and some other games do, and it would work fine.
 

False Sense

Ad Astra Per Aspera
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FalseSense
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Well, for all technicalities, we can't talk about how it was leaked too much. We have to keep this thread about characters. :)

I'm more concerned about the existing roster at this point.

Falco, Wolf, or both? What will we get?

If only one, I kind of hope for Wolf, since I find he offers a greater level of contrast than Falco.
If it comes down to one, I think it will be Falco. I think it's likely we'll get both.
 
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