Character Discussion Thread

[Radical Bones]

There could be a Rayman stage. That'd be bad ass.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Why cant it be 7 already? Shulk leadings, Ridley hopes, and now a RayMan trophy, way to much to handle

 

[Bingoshi]

for reference, this is the rumor stating snake would only be in as a trophy
i'm not sure i buy it, despite that being a reasonable outcome

Holy...holy wow! The Ronolab leak actually might have some credibility (maybe). I mean...it predicted that Snake would be gone, but still have a trophy. That was something EVERYBODY said was impossible, and that Sakurai would not go through the trouble to get a third party character JUST to make a trophy of them...and well...*Looks at Rayman*... This is something I never seen anyone even guess was a possibility. Of course, I'm not saying that this leak is real, but that is one bold claim to (potentially) be right about. Now I'm even more interested in the reveal today.

(This gives me hope for Takamaru! ...If only very slightly.)

 

[Reila]

I didn't know I wanted playable Rayman in the game until now. ****ing great, I am setting myself up for disappointments later today.

 

[epicgordan]

Either way, the Rayman reveal essentially opens the floodgates for not just the newcomers outside the gematsu leak, but even for potential third party representatives. I will not, under any circumstances, use this trophy reveal as immediate disconfirmation of Rayman as a playable character unless Sakurai says otherwise.
Could Rayman's reveal also hint towards Solid Snake as a returning vet? I know details surrounding Snake has left a lot of Smashers in doubt that he'd return, but now, I am not at all certain about the full character roster. All I am sure of at this point in time is that the gematsu trio, Ridley, and Mewtwo are all likely to be playable. Rayman, on the other hand, just opens a ton of doors, and almost completely disconfirms any hardened mindset of only gematsu trio. Either way, even if Shulk's reveal was spoiled by Monolith Soft AND the fourth gematsu leak, this news, will shed a ton more hope on the characters everybody seemed to have given up on seeing.

The timing is no coincidence, either. I do believe that Sakurai is now fully aware that somebody has been leaking his newcomers, and this is his him saying, "Don't worry. There are still a few surprised in store."
Now watch as we get plagued by leaks saying that Rayman and/or Snake are playable as well. This should be fun.

 

[Curious Villager]

I do kinda hope we get to see a select few more third parties as trophies at least, or maybe even as assist trophies if not playable. Just seeing Professor Layton in the game at all would make my day, like it did with Rayman just today.

(I mean sure seeing playable is the most preferable but I don't think we will be seeing anyone else besides the confirmed playable guests and maybe Snake for these games. So seeing these third parties at least receive a friendly nod would be neat)

 

[Zynux]

I don't really understand why people think that if Shulk is revealed tomorrow, it proves Sal right even more. We ALL came to the conclusion that Shulk was going to be revealed when we noticed that a Monolith Soft developer retweeted the tweet detailing the video.

Because it will objectively confirm even more information found in his leak? Even if we all came to the "same conclusion" and that Shulk is a "lucky guess", that is irrelevant. What matters is that's one more character on the Gematsu Leak has been objectively confirmed to appear in Smash 4, as he stated. The leak would also have even less evidence going against it, and it will become even more increasingly difficult to disregard it, with only two more characters left and DLC for him to verify. I do not understand how it's not clear that this will help his leak's validity, even if only a little.

With that said, I will laugh hard if Shulk doesn't show up. The reactions would be glorious.

I am so confused why is this a thing??

What could this mean for characters????

Wow. This really opens the floodgates. Don't know how I feel about it.

 

[Kalimdori]

Can somebody with knowledge of copyrights explain this to me? Nintendo needs rights to include Rayman in the game, yes? Would it be logical for Ubisoft to give them the rights to Rayman, just for Sakurai to make him a trophy?

I have no idea how that sort of thing works, I'd like some enlightenment.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Because it will objectively confirm even more information found in his leak? Even if we all came to the "same conclusion" and that Shulk is a "lucky guess", that is irrelevant. What matters is that's one more character on the Gematsu Leak has been objectively confirmed to appear in Smash 4, as he stated. The leak would also have even less evidence going against it, and it will become even more increasingly difficult to disregard it, with only two more characters left and DLC for him to verify. I do not understand how it's not clear that this will help his leak's validity, even if only a little.

With that said, I will laugh hard if Shulk doesn't show up. The reactions would be glorious.


Wow. This really opens the floodgates. Don't know how I feel about it.

Besides the leak from today, take every other leak from Sal out of the equation. Before today's leak, we all concluded that Shulk would be revealed. It was not a lucky guess. We all came to this conclusion with solid evidence, which was the retweet. Now, we have solid evidence that the newcomer is Shulk and the majority of people believe that Shulk will be revealed. We didn't really need Sal's leak to know it was Shulk. Because of this, I don't see how this particular leak would make him more credible. Any one of us could've "leaked" that Shulk is going to be revealed.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

This is ****ing weird. Rayman is a character I've always wanted, I just never found him too likely, but after this... I'm definitely going to be supporting the crap out of him for the next game.

 

[Kenith]

At this point, I'm just counting the days that Ghirahim, Lucina, Paper Mario or any of my other supported characters aren't deconfirmed as a trophy, amnd it confounds me that Rayman is deconfirmed before them.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well, even if he isn't playable and doesn't end up as DLC, at least he's got a model in-game. When do you think the modders will have the game hacked? Rayman for Project M U.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Can somebody with knowledge of copyrights explain this to me? Nintendo needs rights to include Rayman in the game, yes? Would it be logical for Ubisoft to give them the rights to Rayman, just for Sakurai to make him a trophy?

I have no idea how that sort of thing works, I'd like some enlightenment.

I imagine that perhaps Nintendo and Ubisoft came to an agreement back when Rayman Legends was in development; that Mario and Luigi costumes would be included in the Wii U version of Rayman Legends, and that Rayman would likewise make a similarly small appearance in a Nintendo game. Super Smash Bros. makes the most sense for such an appearance.
Nintendo is essentially advertising Rayman in one of their most popular series. So, yes, it is very logical for Ubisoft to give Sakurai permission to include an image of Rayman in Super Smash Bros., and according to Sakurai, they even created the trophy model exclusively for the game, which suggests to me they were quite enthusiastic about it.
I'm sure there will be some copyright info in the game's credits, giving credit to Ubisoft for the likeness of their character. It's pretty much as simple as that.
After all, companies often do that sort of thing, that is, allow their IPs to appear in another company's product, free of charge. We see it all the time, especially in film and television.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

With Rayman's trophy, I think he's pretty much disconfirmed. I mean, I know nothing is certain, but I don't understand why Ubisoft would make the model themselves if Rayman was playable.

That said, the trophy also leaves the third-party atmosphere for the reveal. I wonder if Sakurai intends to take advantage of it. I was absolutely set on Shulk being the reveal, but now I wonder if this atmosphere changes it. Snake, even if just a little, does get a bit of support from this.

 

[M23-X0]

Now that we have a Rayman trophy, I want a Bomberman trophy too !

 

[Deleted member]

About Rayman, I would remind you that Nintendo published Rayman Legends in Japan too.

With that, I'm expecting more Nintendo-published-third-party-games trophies, like Bayonetta, Layton and a main character from Bravely Default/Second.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Like I said before... Shantae Trophy? Lloyd Irving Trophy? Goemon-Trophy? Sora-Trophy?
The possibilies would be endless.

(I might bank on Bamco-trophies though due Bamco working on this anyway.)

 

[domokl]

Smash definetly seems to be becoming more of a celebration of gaming

 

[Deleted member]

Like I said before... Shantae Trophy? Lloyd Irving Trophy? Goemon-Trophy? Sora-Trophy?
The possibilies would be endless.

(I might bank on Bamco-trophies though due Bamco working on this anyway.)

All of them are not from Nintendo-published third-party series, so I'm not betting on it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

All of them are not from Nintendo-published third-party series, so I'm not betting on it.

By that logic, only Marina Lightyears-trophy then? Or Tales of Phantasia-trophies? I mean, that got a full english translation from Nintendo for the (mediocre) GBA port...

 

[Zynux]

Besides the leak from today, take every other leak from Sal out of the equation. Before today's leak, we all concluded that Shulk would be revealed. It was not a lucky guess. We all came to this conclusion with solid evidence, which was the retweet. Now, we have solid evidence that the newcomer is Shulk and the majority of people believe that Shulk will be revealed. We didn't really need Sal's leak to know it was Shulk. Because of this, I don't see how this particular leak would make him more credible. Any one of us could've "leaked" that Shulk is going to be revealed.

So if I'm correct, you are arguing that Sal's forum post alone can't validate him, since we had objective evidence already that could pertain to his inclusion, and thus his information is not noteworthy (correct me if I misconstrued)? I was actually arguing more from the perspective that Shulk's reveal would overall objectively verify more information on the Gematsu Leak, and thus validate more of Sal's information. I wasn't arguing specifically about his forum post (I apologize if this wasn't made clear lol, I have difficulty getting my thoughts across). However, just in case, I will address this as well. I still think it can help his validity.

Because, what of the possibility that Shulk does not appear tomorrow? Would not then most of us rationalize that Sal's recent leak was wrong? That his informant misinformed him? Or worse, that Sal was lying? Would it then not hurt his credibility? Then why would the opposite not also apply? If Shulk does appear, does it not help his credibility and make him even more likely that he may have had legitimate info? It's not a one way street. If his post can't help bring evidence that his information may be valid, then why would it also be able to damage it? That one recent post of his alone doesn't 100% validate him, but it does make it slightly more likely that he may have had info.

However, the original point of my earlier post is that us having evidence to Shulk's reveal outside of Sal is irrelevant to the end result: that objectively (assuming Shulk shows up tomorrow) one more piece of unverified information from the Gematsu Leak would of been objectively confirmed. Yes, you are correct that we didn't need Sal to leak Shulk before the reveal and yes, we had evidence that could pertain to his reveal. However, that doesn't change the fact Shulk being revealed will give the Gematsu Leak even more evidence to support it's legitimacy.

With Rayman's trophy, I think he's pretty much disconfirmed. I mean, I know nothing is certain, but I don't understand why Ubisoft would make the model themselves if Rayman was playable.

We have yet to see a newcomer be introduced as a trophy first before announced being playable (via trailer), so I think it's logical to assume that Rayman won't be playable. However, past "patterns" are never set in stone.

By that logic, only Marina Lightyears-trophy then?

They better reference her adorable "Shake shake!" in her trophy description or I will only be able to come to the conclusion that they are uncultured, despicable monsters!

 

[Kenith]

Anyone else totally expecting to see a Bayonetta Trophy now?

 

[Pizzanigs]

Anyone else totally expecting to see a Bayonetta Trophy now?

Since we got Rayman, I'd be flabbergasted if we didn't get a Bayonetta trophy.

 

[Kenith]

Since we got Rayman, I'd be flabbergasted if we didn't get a Bayonetta trophy.

Hm, that prediction seems too obvious to me. I need something more controversial.

My unlikely prediction: Bayonetta reveal today.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Hm, that prediction seems too obvious to me. I need something more controversial.

My unlikely prediction: Bayonetta reveal today.

Rayman reveal with Snake sneaking in at the end.

Beat that.

 

[Kenith]

Rayman reveal with Snake sneaking in at the end.

Beat that.

In terms of what, likelihood? Or awesomeness? Both? I'll go with both.

A trailer revealing Rayman and Banjo-Kazooie and Bayonetta, with Snake's box hidden in the background.

 

[JamesDNaux]

A trailer revealing Rayman and Banjo-Kazooie, with Snake's box hidden in the background.

Fixed, and I would love Sakurai forever.

 

[Kenith]

Fixed, and I would love Sakurai forever.

Seriously though, putting my money on a Bayonetta reveal tomorrow, because why the hell not.
It would be

a) Hilarious
b) Obvious and left-field simultaneously
c) Hilarious

 

[domokl]

I'm thinking rayman today but not really counting on it.one reason I doubt it is because he isn't as iconic as the other 3

 

[Tr1pleDee]

I just wake up and we get a RAYMAN trophy?? I don't even care who we get today. That is amazing.

But if gematsu is wrong and we get Rayman as the character I will lose my ****.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Smash definetly seems to be becoming more of a celebration of gaming

Thank ****ing God, it's long overdue. I would totally cut characters like Wolf or Toon Link for a good third party.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I do wonder what Rayman's cameo is all about. I know that Phosphora was first revealed as a trophy, but she later popped up next to Palutena, implying that she's an Assist Trophy as well.

 

[Staarih]

I don't think Sakurai would have shown us Rayman in the PotD like that if he was going to be revealed later today as a playable character. Talk about hype killer. Unless it's some twisted thing, having us expect something at first and then changing our expectations into something else and then bam and it ends up being something totally wacko... or what we expected at first or somewhere in between. Sounds like Sakurai.

...I'm still with #MonadoMonday tho.

 

[Morbi]

I typed this out in the other thread; however, that was before I realized that Sal responded to the thread with "enjoy Shulk." I suppose I could still be correct given the notion that Sakurai could actually change the newcomer prior to the live-stream. I would thoroughly enjoy if he was indeed incorrect. However, if he is NOT, I am going to become a devout follower of Gematsu. That would PROVE that he does have current information. So I am hesitant as signs point to the contrary. This became quite a ways more interesting.

Disclaimer: This is not formatted properly, it was originally on my profile page. Forgive any grammatical/spelling errors as it is currently 5:25 am and I do not proof read my posts.

Last minute speculation: the live-stream is not going to reveal Shulk, Chorus Men, or Chrom. "Bu- but muh Gematsu is the word of god!"

Of course it is, fortunately for you, the word of god is not entirely objective. I believe that the character will not be one of the three alluded to from the leak. Blasphemy, I understand. However, I will detail the reason as to why I feel this way so that when I am correct, I can indicate that I was indeed correct (or I can delete this post if I am incorrect).

Perhaps we should start with the notion that the leak is everywhere. By revealing one of these characters, Sakurai inadvertently confirms the leak to be overtly true. I suppose in the event of Chrom, the most likely reveal (IMO), the selection would still be ambiguous enough. However, Chorus Men would blatantly confirm the leak. So I am disregarding his chance for the moment.

Shulk, the fan-favorite based on a simple tweet. I refer to Shulk as the Twitter warrior as he has little evidence in regards to his inclusion aside from various tweets. Regardless, he might be a likely candidate based on this sentiment. Albeit, Sakurai was wise to reveal the reveal ahead of time. He is currently aware that Monolift has retweeted his quote.

This awareness might have turned an obvious reveal into one of the most surprising of the year. Many fail to realize that Sakurai has quite clearly indicated that he has a couple of videos already prepared. This is a live-stream event and he can actually select the video he wishes to announce to the world. He is not obligated to reveal Shulk, even if it was his original intent.

I am here to state that Shulk WAS, by a preponderance of the evidence, the reveal. However, that is not the case any longer. Chorus Men are out for a couple of reasons, one of which I already asserted. The other is based on the notion that this character reveal was announced three days prior to the reveal. Usually, we only have a day or two notice.

This is due to the fact that there is no Nintendo Direct, but the three day time period is actually important. Many deem it as irrelevant because he merely wants to spread awareness. But he could have easily done that a day or two prior, as usual. This would indicate that the reveal is of somewhat significance. More on this later.

I digress, Chorus Men would not pertain to this type of reveal. In fact, they would, in my opinion, correlate better to a secret newcomer. That is not material, however. This leaves Chrom, he is the only character on the Gematsu leak that does not directly confirm the leak, but at the same time, he is the most disputed character on the leak. Perfect. If the reveal is a Gematsu character, it is Chrom. Period.

I do not believe this to be the case though. Why? First of all, as there are many devout Sal ****riders, he never asserts that those are the final characters. Rosalina is an example and "Pokemon X and Y" proves that he does not have information on the finalized roster. No, I believe the character will be someone entirely different.

I would like to make it apparent that the characters I speculate in favor of are: Ridley and Mewtwo. However, I also find that a Legend of Zelda newcomer is quite likely. I will elaborate later.

The length of the videos. Enough said. No, it is not? People have convinced you that Sakurai needs a minute to introduce a video that has already been introduced three days ahead of time? Okay, this is entirely possible, no doubt. However, I do believe that the length is more indicative that we might have originally anticipated.

There are varying lengths of reveals. Typically, these increase in length the later that they are revealed. WFT's was about a minute, so was Villager's if you omit the trailer. I would take this moment to have you envision what kind of reveal you would announce ahead of time... a short reveal, or a long reveal.

It is most logical to presume a longer reveal would be announced prior. So it is HIGHLY improbable that the reveal that he already introduced would have an introduction that lasts about a minute. This means that our trailer will be about 2:30 at the shortest. This falls in line with trailers like Greninja's or Palutena's, perhaps even Rosalina.

That is the one piece of contradicting evidence, Rosalina. Fortunately, I have an explanation. Anyways, these videos introduce a veteran pertinent to the series (Charizard/Pit). Or in Rosalina's case, the presumed Mario roster. This was for ambiguity, you cannot keep a new series character secret for long, for instance Little Mac.

I believe that it is clear where I am going with this. A long trailer needs familiar faces to be a long trailer. Wii Fit Trainer and Villager also introduced new series, but they are among the shortest trailers. Another being Pac-Man. It is difficult to maintain the suspense when you have to reveal solely the character.

Notice what the Gematsu characters aside from Chrom have in common? They are the first members of their series to join the fight. This is, again, why Chrom is the most likely. I would not be completely and utterly surprised to see him.

Rosalina was the exception to the rule despite the notion that she had to have the (presumed) entire Mario cast to properly work here trailer. This is, again, why we got early reveals of Luigi and Peach. Guess who else we had an early or spontaneous reveal of? Ike. Yep. And who else from Fire Emblem was revealed? Marth, of course.

So. This leads me to believe that Chrom is the most overt choice, or that he will opt to choose a character not in the leak to attenuate the hold that the leak has on the community. He needs a veteran available if the trailer is to be on the longer side... as an advocate of the trophy theory, that means a Metriod character or a Legend of Zelda character.

Metroid's anniversary is in August, presumably, with another Direct. That would be a more ideal time for the most part. He might even be a secret character as Ridley is still one of the most debated possible newcomers. Mewtwo, while likely, is another Pokemon character. I just find it odd that he would opt to reveal ANOTHER one so close to the Pokemon dedicated trailer.

The most rational choice (if what I state is true) is a Legend of Zelda newcomer such as Ganon or Ghirahim. We already have the majority of the Legend of Zelda cast and he could use this opportunity to reveal Ganondorf as well, just like Charizard.

It is a stretch, because, in the event that Ridley is kept a secret character (which is what I proposed), a Legend of Zelda character would fit well as an Auguest (get it?) reveal. Hyrule Warriors is not a high-profile game, but I interpret that as a reason TO reveal a character.

So basically, I have surmised that the reveal has to be from a pre-existing series. This means Chrom in the event that we get a Gematsu character. Other possibilities include: Kirby (Meta Knight as veteran, Bandanna Dee as newcomer with King Dedede already there). Star Fox (Fox with Falco or Wolf to coincide with a Krystal reveal).Donkey Kong.

Otherwise, Snake might work because he is a third-party character and we got a third-party reveal trophy reveal with other third-party characters to beef up the trailer. But obviously he was not included in the THIRD-PARTY Direct, and he is not a newcomer unless we get Big Boss with an overhaul. So it is not likely, but I find it more likely than Shulk at this point.

Tl;Dr: Chrom (in the event that Sakurai wishes to further confirm Gematsu despite the fact that there is more to the roster and he can contest such using this reveal) or Legend of Zelda character (my bet goes to Ghirahim, but I have Ganon in my pocket). Maybe Mewtwo (if the trophy quiz theory is incorrect), but doubtful.

 

[Kenith]

All I got from Morbid's essay: Don't expect Shulk, expect Ghirahim.

 

[Morbi]

All I got from Morbid's essay: Don't expect Shulk, expect Ghirahim.

I apologize that it was not concise, I was just typing my thoughts as they came to me. After all of that work, I had to include it in this thread so that it would not go to waste. But that is essentially what I am asserting, albeit, I also had support for Chrom outlined in the essay in the event that it was a Gematsu character. This way, I cannot be wrong because I have a secondary prediction that only needs to go into effect if I am incorrect! Muahahaha.

 

[Joe D.]

Besides the leak from today, take every other leak from Sal out of the equation. Before today's leak, we all concluded that Shulk would be revealed. It was not a lucky guess. We all came to this conclusion with solid evidence, which was the retweet. Now, we have solid evidence that the newcomer is Shulk and the majority of people believe that Shulk will be revealed. We didn't really need Sal's leak to know it was Shulk. Because of this, I don't see how this particular leak would make him more credible. Any one of us could've "leaked" that Shulk is going to be revealed.

Not to mention that this leak came conveniently after we had enough information to know it would be Shulk.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

I sometimes think that Sakurai himself realizes he messed up the pace at which he should have revealed characters... And now must try to shoehorn all of them before Sep 13. I mean, March, we got nothing. The invitational, nothing. Spike VGX nothing, EVO nothing, etc. and this is why he must reveal a new character in such a random and unconventional fashion

 

[TitanTeaTime]

Screw what Morbid says, I'm riding this Shulk hype train until the last stop. And then some.
Choo choo mother****ers

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sakurai only speaks Japanese, so maybe the translator goofed up? We'll probably never know.