Pretty sure what's being said is that the characters all face creative limitations to some extent, which is just something that comes with using existing characters in a crossover, as opposed to characters who are designed specifically for a fighter, who don't have to deal with the parameters and confines of a moveset being based around something that already exists, or at least around some sort of established boundary. That's just the trade-off to having a game with pre-existing All-Star characters; they aren't made for the purpose of being unique in a fighting game.
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Character Discussion Thread
- Thread starter N3ON
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Basically what @
N3ON
said. Sure, if we remove the requirement that Nintendo characters be Nintendo characters, we can arguably have "more unique" characters...arguably, because odds are, among Nintendo's library, there's at least one or two characters who can take any OC's moveset and pull it off, just as good if not better than them. But that would require that Smash be Dragon King, not Smash.
N3ON
said. Sure, if we remove the requirement that Nintendo characters be Nintendo characters, we can arguably have "more unique" characters...arguably, because odds are, among Nintendo's library, there's at least one or two characters who can take any OC's moveset and pull it off, just as good if not better than them. But that would require that Smash be Dragon King, not Smash.
Sora sure is a funny way to say Slime or a Classic Final Fantasy character.
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Jason the Yoshi
Watching Me, Wanting Me
I don't know Square Enix, it's not my fault.
Niala
Smash Ace
Well of course they are, but that wasn't my point. My point is how can people so blatantly dismiss characters without knowing anything about them?
G0LD3N L0TUS
Smash Lord
Slime is a funny way to say Dragon Quest Hero.
I do it for the rush.
Got it.
You see people dismissing characters like that because character preference comes with the territory of an All-Star fighting game. Many people prefer seeing their favorite characters going toe-to-toe against other favorite characters rather than unknown quantities. Sure, these quantities could be unique, but so could their favorites. That's one reason why so many people dislike the SSE..."The SSE had some cool original mooks, but where are the Space Pirates? The Kremlings? The Zelda enemies? Why are there only Mario enemies alongside them (with Kirby enemies planned because of Biased Sakurai)?"
It's a stupid revisionist myth that "popular characters are boring" or "we have to have unknown characters, otherwise how will the roster be unique." One, uniqueness is subjective, of course, and two, it's my opinion that a lot of the "unique" candidates disguise their movesets' true blandness by being shocking. Like, "This character uses nothing but bland balanced hits, but hey, you never expected her to show up, right? You like her now that she's in, right??" We've never had a roster without those sorts of characters, so no one can definitely say they wouldn't prefer the alternative; they've never had the choice.
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Louie G.
Smash Hero
I don't have access to roster maker at the moment, but I plan on adding Ridley and Mach Rider to my roster.
So, um, discuss?
So, um, discuss?
Starcutter
Resident Beedrill
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
I have no idea why people are really putting stock into this "Play as your favorite Nintendo All-Stars" thinly veiled marketing ploy. That word is on par with other slogans of it's ilk like "Blast Processing" and "Gotta Catch Em' All"; it's not that literal, and if it was we might as well call this game Mario Bash Fest featuring Link from the Legend of Zelda series.
Also apparently this sort of practice is unique to Super Smash Bros. Every crossover game has the habit of including obscure choices for the sake of diversity. Hell, some crossovers like Sonic & All-Stars needs to heavily rely on that sort of philosophy to even come close to being broad.
Also apparently this sort of practice is unique to Super Smash Bros. Every crossover game has the habit of including obscure choices for the sake of diversity. Hell, some crossovers like Sonic & All-Stars needs to heavily rely on that sort of philosophy to even come close to being broad.
ultimatekoopa
Smash Ace
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Well, the Sonic & All stars doesn't have much choice, most of his franchises are obscure
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Slime is in three spinoffs with Mario. Slime is the mascot of the Dragon Quest franchise.
But I suppose I should have just said Dragon Quest character.
Well you did have a point in your statement, we'd probably see Sora before Geno at this point.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
Also regarding to Slime, but unless they make the thing can morph and shift around like Arakune, I'm not expecting much out of it.
Niala
Smash Ace
That's a fair point, and well made. I have a fairly drastically different point of view, however, if you'd hear me out.
As far as I'm concerned, Smash games have already fulfilled the all-star cast of Nintendo characters, and the characters we're receiving now are moreover filling extra space. I'm generally content with the roster Brawl had, and any additions to that (and, of course, preferably few subtractions) are the icing on the cake. By that regard, I have a very lax point of view, and am entirely aware of that, even if there are characters I'd like to see appear over others. I don't see the need in placing so much stock in the appearance, or in this case, lack of appearance of a single character as to allow myself to become frustrated at their mention, especially when, two weeks after the game's release, odds are you'll have forgotten that you cared so much about Ridley being playable and are simply enjoying the game as it was made-- assuming, of course, it isn't complete garbage in other respects.
Not that anything I said detracts from your argument in any way, I just felt like sharing how I choose to see it instead. The nature of the game remains to be that people will become direly invested in the development, make assumptions based on their preferences, fabricate evidence, and thus grow disappointed over the results not meeting their expectations. I just choose not to fall into that trap.
P.S. is somebody still feeling some resentment towards a certain pale yoga instructor?
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D
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Arcanir
An old friend evolved
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Ash having a Pokémon doesn't make it destined to be most promoted. For example, as much as I love it, Treecko was far outstripped by the Blaziken line, and while it was promoted as a starter, it was still beaten out by its compatriot in the same manner.
GF could be trying to push it as the next big thing, but that detail is far from being a hint towards the prospect, particularly since it was decided to be his starter far before Froakie's bounce back in popularity.
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Well it is an All-Star fighting game... even if that doesn't apply to every character included it has pretty much all of Nintendo's All-Stars at this point. I mean the additions this time, at least on the Nintendo side, aren't really All-Stars anymore, except Mii and maybe Villager, but you can literally play as your favourite Nintendo All-Stars, so I don't see what's so terrible about putting stock into a slogan that's... accurate. It's not like the slogan is "Every single one of these characters is a Nintendo All-Star, play as them!".
If one were to call Smash a Nintendo All-Star fighting game... it would be apt.
Takamaru seems like a better choice imo... and Ridley... well if he was already on your roster that'd be one thing, but I dunno if adding him at this point is a great idea.
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Put Ridley back on your roster if you want. But I wouldn't get your hopes up honestly.
That Direct didn't help him. It's E3 or bust.
That Direct didn't help him. It's E3 or bust.
FlareHabanero
Banned via Warnings
I like to simply call it a Nintendo Crossover game, because All-Stars implies that only the highest caliber characters get in, even though from past events it's the opposite effect. We get some popular stuff, and then a bunch of stuff that were no where near as popular but gained fame (or infamy) solely for being included. If that statement was so incredibly pressed, the majority of the roster would be Mario and Pokemon with only one or two snags tagging along like Link and Kirby. Which is not exciting at all, in fact it was explicitly stated that situation is being avoided.
G0LD3N L0TUS
Smash Lord
I actually disagree. I think Sakurai's behavior regarding Ridley is very suggestive to him being PLAYABLE. Just going over what we saw, yes, we did see "Ridley" as a boss hazard on the Pyrosphere, but of course, this is Other M's Ridley, which is just a clone of the original. The original Ridley is still completely fair game. The fact that Sakurai didn't just show "Ridley" as a boss full-on means that he's still trying to tease us with him as a boss. I think we were all narrow-minded in assuming that Ridley couldn't be both playable and a hazard, and I honestly believe that it's a fitting move for Sakurai, and reasonably likely. However, I do agree that E3 is where Ridley would be revealed, along with K. Rool.
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P.S. is somebody still feeling some resentment towards a certain pale yoga instructor?
Yes, I've said it in the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I believe WFT was specifically chosen to fill a token shock character space in Smash, not because the character herself had all that much to offer. What with people having determined that Sakurai does set aside spaces for specific types of characters, with the uncovered example being "a slow, heavier FE character" in Brawl, this wouldn't surprise me at all."Her?"
That's a funny way of spelling "Wii Fit Trainer," don't you think?
I understand that "All-Stars" is basically a flashy slogan, nothing more. But it could have been a legitimate descriptor IMO had a few simple roster choices been different starting back from Melee.
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Croph
Hold Baroque Inside
Roy was considered a "Nintendo All-Star" before his game was even released. No other character gonna do that. 
Unless, of course, we do get a case similar to Roy, which I like to call such character a "newtro" addition. Newtro = a character that's playable although their source game hasn't been released yet, almost like the opposite of retro. Yeah, I just made up "newtro"... ignore me...
Unless, of course, we do get a case similar to Roy, which I like to call such character a "newtro" addition. Newtro = a character that's playable although their source game hasn't been released yet, almost like the opposite of retro.
Yeah, I just made up "newtro"... ignore me...
D
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Guest
I made a roster that'll probably cause people to scratch their heads in confusion! (With some icons getting revamped as I found their Brawl renders looking a bit dated)
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D
Deleted member
Guest
>Sees Krystal instead of Falco
<---- Reaction
...No.
<---- Reaction
...No.
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TheUnsullied
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I can imagine Sakurai saying something like this in a direct.
"Oh, I seemed to have forgotten to show the hazard in the Pyrosphere stage in the last direct"
BOOM Ridley is actually playable! *Tears of joy*
T___T
"Oh, I seemed to have forgotten to show the hazard in the Pyrosphere stage in the last direct"
BOOM Ridley is actually playable! *Tears of joy*
T___T
G0LD3N L0TUS
Smash Lord
"I bet you were all expecting "Ridley" to be a boss on the Pyrosphere stage. Well, you're right, he is. But, take a look at THIS: *Original Ridley playable character*!"
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D
Deleted member
Guest
So how about that Proto Man costume for Mega Man?
Oh wait, it probably won't happen...darn.
Oh wait, it probably won't happen...darn.
D
Deleted member
Guest
"Oh ! It's actually Giga Bowser's cousin, Giga Ridley !
Now, please check this new trailer !
*Ridley makes his big entrance !*"
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G0LD3N L0TUS
Smash Lord
Okay, the roster isn't making me pull my hair out, but there are some very clear disruptions in the force. For starters, that Lucas cut, tho. I realize MOTHER is a tiny series, but still, if Lucas was gonna be cut because of that, he wouldn't have been added in the first place. I can't guarantee it, but it's the most sensible conclusion.I made a roster that'll probably cause people to scratch their heads in confusion! (With some icons getting revamped as I found their Brawl renders looking a bit dated)
Having Krystal over Falco is another kick in the manhood. You're cutting the most liked Star Fox character (looking purely at popularity in Brawl), for a character with much less of pretty much everything besides moveset potential. I know Falco is more of a clone than Wolf, but come on, why?
The rest is pretty standard, with the exception of Chibi-Robo, who I don't have a problem with.
And an extra round of applause for not having those bloody Miis.
Overall, really nice roster (could use organization, almost crapped myself when I couldn't find Ganondorf), but could use a few tweaks, which you seem to already be aware of. Assuming this is a prediction, my advice for improvement is replacing Krystal with Falco, the Random Square with Lucas, and maybe, out of my own personal bias, replace Chibi-Robo with Snake. Oh, and put Ganondorf with the other Zelda characters.
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To an extent though. Rosalina and Zelda are pretty much completely unequipped for fighting outside of their Smash incarnations. There is a lot of creative liscense given to Sakurai, and while for some characters like Mario, and Link, it may be a bit harder to not make them... themselves... You have characters like Rosalina who are completely blank slates in terms of playstyle. She was pretty much "created" for Smash in that sense. None of the moves she uses are actually canon, or her own.
She can do more.
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True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
The moment we had Captain Falcon and Ness in 64 was the moment anyone should have known not everyone chosen was going to be an All-Star character. This was further reinforced by the inclusion of Mr. G &W and the Ice Climbers in Melee and of course R.O.B in Brawl. And then we have the Wii Fit Trainer joining Smash 4.
And you know what? I'm absolutely happy that popularity and recognisability never was the be-all-end-all of roster decisions.Otherwise we would have missed out on some great characters who never would have been able to contribute something great to the franchise and it would have lead to some pretty stale creative limitations.
At least the Toad fans would be pleased by Toad being in.
D
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Guest
Is it... Perfection... ?Here is my dream Roster guys!
I tried to create a roster that could satisfy the masses. I personally believe that 54 is a believable number for Smash 4. I am not sure if the 3DS could handle so many characters though. I wanted to add Bomberman but I can't squeeze him in without having to cut a nintendo character.
Cuts From Brawl:
Squirtle - I don't see squirtle being a stand alone pokemon.
Ivysaur - See Squirtle
Snake - Konami now owns Hudsons IP's. f Konami gets a rep again I would prefer Bomberman.
Mewtwo returns from Melee.
Other Notes:
- I genuinely believe that Robin/Tactician is the new FE rep this time. This is the first time were a lord really has a character that is a threat to them being represented in a large way.
- I only have Ridley in because I can't see Sakurai trolling his fans all this time only to finally reveal he is not a player character. If he is not revealed by E3 I will likely drop him for Bomberman
- I obviously do not believe the Sal leaks
- I believe that if Paper Mario got in, he would represent the Paper Mari franchise and not the vanilla Mario one.
- I do not believe we will see many cuts. Sakurai revealed Toon Link extremely early and he still looks kind of cloneish. If he is back, I see no reason why the majority of brawls roster should not be considered.
- I may add a classic character at the expense of someone else
- I'm not much of a fan of K.Rool myself but his inclusion seems like it will happen this time. He would be the perfect new Heavy Weight.
- Up until now, Sakurai has mostly revealed characters people rarely saw coming. I can see him focusing heavily on characters that are in high demand and also using ones that he knows are considered to be now or never.
I suggest to replace Paper Mario by Dixie though.
Other than that, 9.5/10.
Other than that, 9.5/10.
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thesandman
Smash Cadet
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Just got off of miiverse and saw an arguement about how reggie should be a character. He argued that he was in wii sports, wii sports resort, tomadachi life, etc. which are games for miis. He was just arguing for miis and omg the character requests are even worse. Like shadow and tails and ive even seen some digimon. Its baaad
Louie G.
Smash Hero
Sign me up as a supporter, by the way.
Oh, of course the Direct didn't help him. I've expressed my doubt multiple times, both here and on the Ridley thread.
But when watching the Direct over I realized that his movement was quite jerky and character-like.
Now, I'm still not 100% by any means, but I can't shake the feeling that Sakurai is trolling hardcore.
So I'll just keep hoping I suppose. I won't be surprised to see it go either way, so I'm prepared.
JamesDNaux
Smash Hero
That's what I'm saying though, GameFreak had to plan what they wanted to do with the starters, they don't know if it'll catch on but they just cross their fingers. They try to take the smart route, with Lucario it was a cool talking Pokemon similar to Mewtwo and people ate it up, that one worked out. Zoroark was meant to be the second coming of Lucario but he failed despite his marketing, that's just one example of GameFreak pushing only for it to not go through. Now they're pushing Greninja, which was a smart choice as the mindset of most people is InstantAwesomeJustAddNinja. Ash having a Froakie was just an example, they plan out the anime months in advance, it takes a long time just to make a single episode and you can guarantee that they have the entire season planned out already.
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There is zero evidence for that to be the case though.
Could he do it? Sure. Nothing pointing towards it though.
In a way, it's similar to Majora's Mask being remade. It's been hinted at, but there's no evidence to prove it will be. Plus, three Zelda remakes in a single console generation would be a bit too much.
But in Smash-related stuff, I can still see Ridley being playable. I'm not going to use the standard "R.O.B. in Brawl" argument; instead, I'll use Charizard. Charizard was a Pokeball 64-Melee, and was a playable character in Brawl. Ridely has been in 64 as a background element, Melee as a trophy/ in the intro, and Brawl as a boss. The only possible progression as an NPC would be an Assist Trophy, but Metroid already has 3. Sakurai understands balance in some way, so I think Ridley may return for this reason, combined with others, such as his All-Star status, long-lasting appearances, and good moveset possibilities.
Rockaphin
Smash Champion
I guess I'm the only one that hates Falco. I wouldn't mind Krystal over him. At the same time though, I could care less about Star Fox.I made a roster that'll probably cause people to scratch their heads in confusion! (With some icons getting revamped as I found their Brawl renders looking a bit dated)
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