Character Discussion Thread

[Rockaphin]

In my defense, I have a lot of friends that adore Mother 3 who always tell me about the game and they expressed a big disinterest about cutting Lucas. In a sense, I'm only familiar with the character because of them.

I'd be sad if he's gone if only for them. Though if there's really no merit in having him, then...

Same way actually. My best friend really loves the Mother series and Lucas was one of his favorite characters. I myself didn't care too much for him, but this is the reason I don't really want him cut. Not that I really care to see any cut.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Part of the fun of crossover games is discovering and falling in love with characters that you wouldn't expect to see in crossovers. In fact, I'm pretty sure this isn't a feature exclusive to Smash Bros.

Partly why I don't like the fact I played pretty much every game that has a character in Smash. Lucas, Marth, ROB and Ness (until last year) are the only ones.
Every single newcomer we got, I'm really familiar with. Chrom and Chorus Kids as well. At least there's Shulk, since I never played Xenoblade, so it'll be cool discovering the series in Smash.

Yet I'm so indifferent to many characters anyway lol. Huge F-Zero fan and I can't say I even like Captain Falcon's design in Smash.

 

[Second Power]

Part of the fun of crossover games is discovering and falling in love with characters that you wouldn't expect to see in crossovers. In fact, I'm pretty sure this isn't a feature exclusive to Smash Bros.

Is this pretaining to the Lucas conversation, or just a random aside? If it's the latter, I have a list of characters/franchises that'd be awesome to see.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Is this pretaining to the Lucas conversation, or just a random aside? If it's the latter, I have a list of characters/franchises that'd be awesome to see.

It was in reference to Lucas, though it can also apply to several other characters and franchises.

 

[Opossum]

Seems quite naive if you asked me. Only less than two months left, and a monkey wrench could just show up out of nowhere.

On the flip side, it seems more naive to me to think it's a fake, considering everything it has going for it, and thinking that the last two months would change this despite nothing pointing to it.

 

[False Sense]

On the flip side, it seems more naive to me to think it's a fake, considering everything it has going for it, and thinking that the last two months would change this despite nothing pointing to it.

I think it has less to do with thinking it would change, and more to do with thinking it could change. Anything can change, right?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think it has less to do with thinking it would change, and more to do with thinking it could change. Anything can change, right?

Within reason.

 

[N3ON]

Mhmm, nothing is set in stone except that which has already been confirmed, but still not giving the leak credence at this time seems a bit obstinate.

 

[Opossum]

I think it has less to do with thinking it would change, and more to do with thinking it could change. Anything can change, right?

In theory, yes, but this would be a stretch. Considering only two months remain until release, and it's held up this long, the odds of something drastic changing it are quite low, almost infinitely low, in my eyes. Just my thoughts though.


EDIT: N3ON said it better.

 

[Second Power]

It was in reference to Lucas, though it can also apply to several other characters and franchises.

Can't say I really like that reasoning for keeping Lucas in. Mother already has Ness repping it (and has had Ness for three soon-to-be four games), Lucas doesn't even represent a different archetype from the series. He's redundant. There's many many other smaller Nintendo series that can bring new stuff to the table and need moar love.

 

[False Sense]

In theory, yes, but this would be a stretch. Considering only two months remain until release, and it's held up this long, the odds of something drastic changing it are quite low, almost infinitely low, in my eyes. Just my thoughts though.


EDIT: N3ON said it better.

Oh, I don't think there would be any drastic changes regarding anything the leak said within these last two months (on that note, I do believe the leak is real). But I think it's a little more feasible that something changed early in the development process, when the leaker seemed to get his information.

 

[Hong]

Yes.

I have no reason to believe the leaker is getting recent information, or they would have leaked it already, and done so accurately.

Frankly, about 30% of the newcomers in Brawl didn't make it, give or take based on the seven characters on the data and characters that may or may not have left a trace of development in the files.. That's just how game development is.

 

[Niala]

To go back on the Lucas thing:
It's not like he and his game is even well received in his own country, with the handful of people who bought it. The Japanese have had a mostly mixed reaction with Mother 3, and I don't blame them. M2 is clearly held in much higher regard. That is why to this day we are getting yet another run of figurines and they are exclusively M2 characters, a game a decade older.

I can't think of a single franchise represented in Smash Bros more important to me than Mother, and I don't want Lucas back at all. He felt like a patched Ness. What a filthy insult to give us Lucas, a character who is more or less the same archetype as Ness, who was preceded by Ninten. Why not Loid/Jeff/Duster, or Ana/Paula/Kumatora? They are main characters who are of the tool-user and PSI specialist archetypes, serve similar theatrical roles. Granted the M3 characters by design were designed to shake up the formula, but still.

Of course Ness and Lucas can be made more different, but why? It would be like having Marth and Eliwood as the Fire Emblem representatives, and making Eliwood into the powerhouse instead of having Ike. Granted, Lucas is the "mainest" of characters, but In M3 out of all the games is when you spend the least time with him compared to Ninten and Ness. Let someone else represent a new play style that can do so more organically.

For what it's worth, I liked Lucas, even if I didn't appreciate his game too much. He's a sweet kid, just among the bottom of the barrel of Mother characters I would want for the purposes of Smash Bros. It bothers me that a lot of the people who defend him haven't even played at least two, sometimes not even one, of the Mother games. A lot of people just want him in Smash Bros again because he was there once, like with Roy supporters.

You're probably going to really hate this, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

I would actually prefer Lucas returning over Ness. And the only reason being that I like playing Lucas more-- a lot more. If Falco wasn't my main, Lucas would have been, easy as that. As far as Ness is concerned, I don't care if he stays or goes.

The thing is, I'm basing my opinion here completely on how much I like them in Smash. And I totally understand how that can be incredibly frustrating to somebody who loves Mother canonically, but to somebody who has tried on several occasions to play Earthbound and has no positive feelings about the series, it really just comes down to preferring one or the other in Smash as a series rather than Mother as a series. So while you may have considered it a slap in the face to receive Lucas instead of a character perhaps more prevalent to the series, I would consider it a slap in the face to keep the original that I don't like rather than the "updated" clone, who I do like-- it doesn't really have anything to do with Mother as a series of it's own.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or malicious or anything like that, I merely wanted to explain the point of view of somebody who genuinely doesn't care for the Mother series.

 

[Hong]

You're probably going to really hate this, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

That would be awfully unreasonable for me to hate your opinion. o.o

Personally, I would prefer neither Ness or Lucas, but Ninten. I rather combine the best of the two into one character, and make some serious revisions to the formula, and just let the player have palettes for Ness, Lucas and Claus. I know people are obsessed with this idea of "the original 12", but I don't care. That's just my opinion.

 

[Second Power]

You're probably going to really hate this, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

I would actually prefer Lucas returning over Ness. And the only reason being that I like playing Lucas more-- a lot more. If Falco wasn't my main, Lucas would have been, easy as that. As far as Ness is concerned, I don't care if he stays or goes.

The thing is, I'm basing my opinion here completely on how much I like them in Smash. And I totally understand how that can be incredibly frustrating to somebody who loves Mother canonically, but to somebody who has tried on several occasions to play Earthbound and has no positive feelings about the series, it really just comes down to preferring one or the other in Smash as a series rather than Mother as a series. So while you may have considered it a slap in the face to receive Lucas instead of a character perhaps more prevalent to the series, I would consider it a slap in the face to keep the original that I don't like rather than the "updated" clone, who I do like-- it doesn't really have anything to do with Mother as a series of it's own.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or malicious or anything like that, I merely wanted to explain the point of view of somebody who genuinely doesn't care for the Mother series.

If Ness took some of Lucas's better attributes turning into an amalgamation of Brawl!Ness and Brawl!Lucas, would you be okay with that?

Edit:

 

[Niala]

That would be awfully unreasonable for me to hate your opinion. o.o

Personally, I would prefer neither Ness or Lucas, but Ninten. I rather combine the best of the two into one character, and make some serious revisions to the formula, and just let the player have palettes for Ness, Lucas and Claus. I know people are obsessed with this idea of "the original 12", but I don't care. That's just my opinion.

That sounds excellent, problem solved-- I also don't particularly care for the idea of the "Original 12," but I also don't think those 12 are going anywhere, at least not for Smash4. Call it a guess, but it just seems logical to me. They haven't left yet, so why would they now?

If Ness took some of Lucas's better attributes turning into an amalgamation of Brawl!Ness and Brawl!Lucas, would you be okay with that?

Edit:

I would be perfectly fine with that. It's more an issue, to me, of losing a character I really enjoy for a character I don't.

Although I might note it's incredibly subjective what his "better attributes" are. There are people who enjoy Ness the way he is, and removing him for the sake of people who like Lucas more is a bit unreasonable, just as removing Lucas for Ness' sake is the same.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ness to make better use of his yo-yo, because I feel like Ness has his range too restricted with his current moveset.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

They haven't left yet, so why would they now?

Retirement? Lol

 

[Hong]

I seriously doubt Ness will return as he was. If Lucas returns (which I doubt), I don't think he will return as is, either. No matter what, people are not going to get what they were used to if Ness is changed. It's just because the characters are being more sensibly designed this time, which is reflected on the fact other characters with some outright faulty designs were not left unaltered.

There's also the fact that Lucas, even compared to other so-called "clones", offers the least variety in Brawl. Even though Lucas has attacks that look different than Ness; A Ness with Lucas's special moves has a smaller difference than a Fox with Falco's special moves, or even a Link with Toon Link's special moves. If you look at something like Lucas's dair or usmash, the reason why they seem so defining from Ness is because his moves of the same input are underwhelming. If Ness had his 64 dair, he would actually have a semblance of use for it.

So yes. Custom special moves and an improved Ness would render Lucas, from a technical standpoint, obsolete, outside of For Glory mode. Their short stubby bodies and slow movement speeds more or less end up with them, at the core, having the same weaknesses. They could be argued as having their own strengths, but again, custom special moves and a better design would render that moot. Ness just has a lot of awful buttons.

 

[Con0rrrr]

TL;DR of Last 10 Pages: Gematsu is real. Does not necessarily mean that is all the characters.

In other words, no progress made.

 

[Baskerville]

Ness to make better use of his yo-yo, because I feel like Ness has his range too restricted with his current moveset.

Bridget yo-yo for Down Smash.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

On the flip side, it seems more naive to me to think it's a fake, considering everything it has going for it, and thinking that the last two months would change this despite nothing pointing to it.

In the end, everyone has their own point of view with the situation. I'm just not liking how one leak is trying to kill two potential reps who are way more deserving to be playable.

 

[Hong]

I would love to see what Bandai Namco can do. Especially since we specifically have some important folks who have worked on the Tales of and Soul Calibur series on board. Between them and Mr. Sakurai, I am sure they all sorts of creative ideas in store.

 

[N3ON]

TL;DR of Last 10 Pages: Gematsu is real. Does not necessarily mean that is all the characters.

In other words, no progress made.

If you're looking for progress to be made, you came to the wrong thread... site... series to speculate on.

In the end, everyone has their own point of view with the situation. I'm just not liking how one leak is trying to kill two potential reps who are way more deserving to be playable.

I don't think the intention of the leak is to kill anything no matter how deserving, just to provide information about what we'll be getting. It's not the leak's fault we're not gonna get those characters...

 

[Opossum]

In the end, everyone has their own point of view with the situation. I'm just not liking how one leak is trying to kill two potential reps who are way more deserving to be playable.

Wait, what? If you're referring to K. Rool and Ridley, for example, Gematsu doesn't explicitly state that these are the last ones. Could they be? Yes. But that's not confirmed at the moment.

 

[FlareHabanero]

"This leak is fake because it contains characters I don't like"

Yeah, no.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Wait, what? If you're referring to K. Rool and Ridley, for example, Gematsu doesn't explicitly state that these are the last ones. Could they be? Yes. But that's not confirmed at the moment.

Well, since Sakurai did state that he's heading towards the bottom of the stash of new challenger videos, a do or die situation appears to be inevitable, especially if all newcomers will be revealed before Smash 3DS's release.

 

[Stalkos]

You're probably going to really hate this, but I feel like I need to say it anyway.

I would actually prefer Lucas returning over Ness. And the only reason being that I like playing Lucas more-- a lot more. If Falco wasn't my main, Lucas would have been, easy as that. As far as Ness is concerned, I don't care if he stays or goes.

The thing is, I'm basing my opinion here completely on how much I like them in Smash. And I totally understand how that can be incredibly frustrating to somebody who loves Mother canonically, but to somebody who has tried on several occasions to play Earthbound and has no positive feelings about the series, it really just comes down to preferring one or the other in Smash as a series rather than Mother as a series. So while you may have considered it a slap in the face to receive Lucas instead of a character perhaps more prevalent to the series, I would consider it a slap in the face to keep the original that I don't like rather than the "updated" clone, who I do like-- it doesn't really have anything to do with Mother as a series of it's own.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful or malicious or anything like that, I merely wanted to explain the point of view of somebody who genuinely doesn't care for the Mother series.

^This.

The only reason I want back it's because I enjoyed playing with him. I only played Mother 2, and never managed to beat it (damn desert, never figured out how to get trough it...). So I never developed a close link to .
And then again, this is a fighting game, and Lucas felt better as a fighter than Ness. (This is my opinion and totally irrelevant, feel free to ignore it), and I think this is reason enough for him to come back.
Also, he is basically ready, it feels like a waste to throw away a amost completed character just because the game was not well received. He joined the cast one time, he can join again.
Of course there is a ton of arguments to prove this wrong, like , and , but there must be something else we don't know that is a important factor in the choice of those characters. (Let's call it Sakurai factor for now ). I mean, Yoshi have more games than Earthbound, yet he's the standalone of his franchise until now.

Of course, "I never designed a game", so this is all speculation of mine. But I think Lucas deserves his spot, not because his Mother game wasn't a sucess, but because Brawl was.

 

[Baskerville]

Stalkos, your signature hurts, man.

 

[Stalkos]

Stalkos, your signature hurts, man.

I must say that my sig reflects what I think it will happen, and not what I want.

 

[Hong]

Well, since Sakurai did state that he's heading towards the bottom of the stash of new challenger videos, a do or die situation appears to be inevitable, especially if all newcomers will be revealed before Smash 3DS's release.

There is a chance Chrom or Chorus Men may not show up at all, and we don't know if any newcomers after the initial draft have not come to fruition. While one or two characters from the leak may have been scrapped, a few characters could have come to conception as well. In fact, it is possible that some of our existing newcomers were not in the initial draft at all.

I'm not doubting Shulk anymore, though I didn't have much reason to doubt him to begin with.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Stalkos, your signature hurts, man.

It was bad enough already, then I saw the box.

Don't toy with me like that, man.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm starting to get the impression that Hong is only saying this stuff because of bias...

 

[Bingoshi]

I'm not sure why I'm always hearing how "bad" Ness is, or hearing how Lucas is better. I feel the complete opposite, actually. I used to be Lucas a lot, and at a time I thought he was indeed better, but then I played Earthbound and grew fond of the little guy. I started to seriously train with him and now I'm a Ness master. He's really good when you know how to use him (to me anyway), and so far I've been doing quite well with him against my family members and such. I also feel Ness is a cooler character than Lucas, but that of course is just an opinion. In fact, this whole comment is just my opinion, so...yeah. I really want to see my boy Ness return! I'll be so let down if he doesn't.

 

[Hong]

I'm starting to get the impression that Hong is only saying this stuff because of bias...

In what way? I wouldn't care who is on the leak. It's a basic level of critical thinking combined with basic knowledge of game design, combined with Mr. Sakurai's history.

It's not like I care about King K. Rool, and just want MSG to not lose hope over him because of the leak.

 

[Opossum]

Plus, worse come to worse, there's always post-release DLC for K. Rool. By the way, you guys should join that movement.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I feel like a DKC newcomer is inevitable for DLC if there isn't one in the release version if only for the fan outcry, it's ****ing ridiculous that it only has 2 characters when it's a character-centric franchise that dwarfs all but 3 other franchises represented in the game. Heck, it's ridiculous that most of the current newcomers would be prioritized over a DKC newcomer. All we can hope is that K. Rool or Dixie don't have assigned roles in the launch version, at least that'd put them ahead of guys like Ridley and Toad.

 

[False Sense]

I'm starting to get the impression that Hong is only saying this stuff because of bias...

I get the feeling that anyone who even remotely questions the leak's supposed absolute certainty is instantly labeled as biased.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

So dumb question: What's going against K. Rool that people are clamoring for him to be mere DLC?

Okay, there's Dixie, but slot-stealing is a BS argument.

 

[Rockaphin]

I feel like a DKC newcomer is inevitable for DLC if there isn't one in the release version if only for the fan outcry, it's ****ing ridiculous that it only has 2 characters when it's a character-centric franchise that dwarfs all but 3 other franchises represented in the game. Heck, it's ridiculous that most of the current newcomers would be prioritized over a DKC newcomer. All we can hope is that K. Rool or Dixie don't have assigned roles in the launch version, at least that'd put them ahead of guys like Ridley and Toad.

I agree, I think it would be silly not to see a new Donkey Kong character. And silly isn't the word I want to use.