Character Discussion Thread

[EbonyRubberWolf]

:snype:

My counterargument?
My counterargument is that you're full of it and making "arguments" that show you're pulling random assumptions out your rectum.

You assume that Mewtwo was near completion and Sakurai axed him just because he didn't like him.
Now, ignoring that this is a completely pathetic argument to begin with, let's address the flaws.
1. Mewtwo was not near completion. If he was, he wouldn't have been scrapped in the first place and this conversation wouldn't be happening.
2. Mewtwo, much like the rest of the scrapped characters in Brawl's data (sans "pra_mai" since there's very little to understand about it) was a case of time constraints.

Okay, so then Mewtwo just wasn't that important because he was just set on the back burner. They couldn't spare time for him even though they already had a moveset ready to go, they just had to implement it into Brawl. Check. What else you got for me?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/15390/sakurai-speaks-on-brawl-character-development

All this tells us that either a: Mewtwo wasn't working out early on and was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic or b: Mewtwo wasn't important enough to start work on early so he was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic. Where's the common denominator there?

(Hint: EXPENDABLE)

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/4964/sakurai-cut-characters-from-smash-bros/

Apply the same above to below.

Need I go on?

Nah. You've proven my point nicely. Mewtwo just wasn't fit for Smash, and Sakurai did away with the rubbish. Maybe he'll get back in as a boss, if he's lucky.

No, we're arguing that no franchise can have more characters than Mario. We're arguing that the roster size is EASILY DIVISIBLE NUMBER X - 1 for the Random button. We're arguing that if all of these golden numbers turn out the way they did in Brawl, why have we gone back to a layout reminiscent of Melee, that wasn't perfect?

We should really be arguing that this is Sakurai, and that if we think our numbers and theories and Sal Romanos mean ****, then we've all been morons from the start.

Sakurai's a game developer. He's not playing some 11th dimension chess. He's just hyping up his game. The layout change from 3DS to Wii U and vice versa is more damning against anything that's not 47 + Random in my opinion. No matter what magic we may attribute to Sakurai, Gematsu remains absolutely flawless in prediction. THIS close to release, he's not going to do anything but debug and get the game out, period.

Actually, thinking more about it, the theory about Mii replacing the Random slot makes a ton of sense. That's because you will likely change Miis either with menu that pops up, or by the regular color change option. Either way, if you were to choose random, you have no idea what Mii you would get, and that could result in a completely different moveset every time. The same applies to every character with their custom moves. Normally, picking random would result in getting one character and that's it. But now, with so many more options, I can't really see it happening anymore.

I don't see the logic here. A random that selects your moveset randomly as well wouldn't strain the system beyond a normal random select in the first place. They're just variables, and the Wii U and 3DS could easily crunch those numbers.

Another point to consider:

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1970393/pokemon_in_super_smash_bros_how_theyre_selected.html

Pikachu out prioritized Mewtwo due to being...well....Pikachu.
Pokémon Trainer out prioritized Mewtwo due to Sakurai focusing on the team gimmick he wanted to incorporate (information in regards to PT's addition come from a 2008 Famitsu article).
Lucario out prioritized Mewtwo due to being the "hot" Pokémon (which Mewtwo was not at the time; very little promotion, no recent anime roles, etc.).
Jigglypuff, like Mewtwo, was low priority compared to the other Pokémon for the same above reasons. The difference between Jigglypuff and Mewtwo? Jigglypuff didn't require much work, with essentially a copypasta model (with touch-ups) and copypasta animations (evident with Jigglypuff's Air Dodge animation trying to make a transition to the Helpless animation, which doesn't occur with a Brawl Air Dodge).
Mewtwo merely got the short end of the stick.

So Mewtwo got crowded out and left to rot. None of this is making Mewtwo sound like the superstar everyone's hyping him up to be. And we want this loser back? His primary competition in Brawl seems to have been Lucario who was the golden Pokemon due to his exposure at the time. Here's the problem: Lucario came back, despite being right in Mewtwo's position six years later. Lucario's not even a Legendary, and yet, there he is. Mewtwo's a boss or nothing at this point. Maybe DLC, y'know, for when Sakurai finally gets around to finishing him.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Once again, lol @ this discussion. Hm, maybe we can change topics so nobody has to contribute more to this fruitless, not-fun argument.

Anyone want some more puns? Like or not, here they are!

To Exeggute this Seel would be a bit Farfetch-d, I'd rather Rhydon a Horsea and take a Chansey with Seaking a Magikarpet ride with a Celibate, Medititing, Diancing Bisharp.

 

[Espio264]

Once again, lol @ this discussion. Hm, maybe we can change topics so nobody has to contribute more to this nonfun fruitless argument.

Anyone want some more puns? Like or not, here they are!

To Exeggute this Seel would be a bit Farfetch-d, I'd rather Rhydon a Horsea and take a Chansey with Seaking a Magikarpet ride with a Celibate, Medititing, Diancing Bisharp.

Your puns are Gastly.

 

[Weeman]

:snype:



Okay, so then Mewtwo just wasn't that important because he was just set on the back burner. They couldn't spare time for him even though they already had a moveset ready to go, they just had to implement it into Brawl. Check. What else you got for me?
All this tells us that either a: Mewtwo wasn't working out early on and was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic or b: Mewtwo wasn't important enough to start work on early so he was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic. Where's the common denominator there?

(Hint: EXPENDABLE)
Apply the same above to below.


Nah. You've proven my point nicely. Mewtwo just wasn't fit for Smash, and Sakurai did away with the rubbish. Maybe he'll get back in as a boss, if he's lucky.


Sakurai's a game developer. He's not playing some 11th dimension chess. He's just hyping up his game. The layout change from 3DS to Wii U and vice versa is more damning against anything that's not 47 + Random in my opinion. No matter what magic we may attribute to Sakurai, Gematsu remains absolutely flawless in prediction. THIS close to release, he's not going to do anything but debug and get the game out, period.



I don't see the logic here. A random that selects your moveset randomly as well wouldn't strain the system beyond a normal random select in the first place. They're just variables, and the Wii U and 3DS could easily crunch those numbers.



So Mewtwo got crowded out and left to rot. None of this is making Mewtwo sound like the superstar everyone's hyping him up to be. And we want this loser back? His primary competition in Brawl seems to have been Lucario who was the golden Pokemon due to his exposure at the time. Here's the problem: Lucario came back, despite being right in Mewtwo's position six years later. Lucario's not even a Legendary, and yet, there he is. Mewtwo's a boss or nothing at this point. Maybe DLC, y'know, for when Sakurai finally gets around to finishing him.

Honestly you really come off sounding obnoxious here, like there's having opinions and there's being so entitled to them as to just dismiss everyone else's. A roster of 47 characters only comes from the notion that the gematsu newcomers are the only remaining, wich is possible, but you don't know that, you also have no idea on Sakurai's stance on Mewtwo's case either, and just assuming that he doesn't care about him and his demand as well as just assuming he's a boss just because you don't like him it's rather hypocritical, you claim to have so much evidence for all of this but where is evidence for Mewtwo's boss inclusion other than your out of your butt logic.
The Mario theory bull**** that you are so entitled to it's nothing more than an observable pattern, not a bloody sacred rule, and your whole logic about the CSS on the 3ds screen is flawed, Sakurai has shrinked the boxes before, the screen can slide, you cannot just claim that the roster is damned to be like you say and expect everyone to agree.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

:snype:



Okay, so then Mewtwo just wasn't that important because he was just set on the back burner. They couldn't spare time for him even though they already had a moveset ready to go, they just had to implement it into Brawl. Check. What else you got for me?
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/15390/sakurai-speaks-on-brawl-character-development
All this tells us that either a: Mewtwo wasn't working out early on and was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic or b: Mewtwo wasn't important enough to start work on early so he was deemed expendable enough to discard for Sonic. Where's the common denominator there?

(Hint: EXPENDABLE)
Apply the same above to below.


Nah. You've proven my point nicely. Mewtwo just wasn't fit for Smash, and Sakurai did away with the rubbish. Maybe he'll get back in as a boss, if he's lucky.


Sakurai's a game developer. He's not playing some 11th dimension chess. He's just hyping up his game. The layout change from 3DS to Wii U and vice versa is more damning against anything that's not 47 + Random in my opinion. No matter what magic we may attribute to Sakurai, Gematsu remains absolutely flawless in prediction. THIS close to release, he's not going to do anything but debug and get the game out, period.



I don't see the logic here. A random that selects your moveset randomly as well wouldn't strain the system beyond a normal random select in the first place. They're just variables, and the Wii U and 3DS could easily crunch those numbers.



So Mewtwo got crowded out and left to rot. None of this is making Mewtwo sound like the superstar everyone's hyping him up to be. And we want this loser back? His primary competition in Brawl seems to have been Lucario who was the golden Pokemon due to his exposure at the time. Here's the problem: Lucario came back, despite being right in Mewtwo's position six years later. Lucario's not even a Legendary, and yet, there he is. Mewtwo's a boss or nothing at this point. Maybe DLC, y'know, for when Sakurai finally gets around to finishing him.

Just going to throw it out there, but the way you're responding is coming across as trollish.

You have to be on crack to seriously not see Mewtwo as an All-Star. If you're going to ignore the fact that he's the most requested character for this game, and that most of it comes from his previous appearance in Melee, then there is nothing to discuss further.

Just because you don't like him doesn't mean you need to rain on everybody else's parade.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

And we all keep lol'ing on at this argument.

Your puns are Gastly.

Your avatar is Thundurus.

 

[Deleted member]

RubberWolf, you're an idiot, aren't you?
Don't answer that; I know you're going to lie.

You have proven to me that
a. you don't know **** about character development
b. you have an extreme bias against Mewtwo to where you have nothing better to do than troll and make stupid arguments
c. you are completely ignorant about both Lucario and Mewtwo (since you think Lucario's is currently in the same position Mewtwo was in back in Brawl's development)
d. attempts to educate you are just going to be a waste of time, something I can't really waste at this point.

So yeah, *ignored*.

 

[Espio264]

Your avatar is Thundurus.

Taking that as a compliment?

Thank you, I suppose.

 

[ppbto]

I find this discussion very funny. Mewtwo as a boss is one of the worst theories in smash speculation that I have ever read.
Seriously, there's not a single piece of evidence that support this.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Your puns are Gastly.

^Quoting for truth.

If you're not going to contribute to discussion, please take the silliness somewhere else. Try to stay on a topic people. Let's not get too heated either.

 

[Weeman]

And we all keep lol'ing on at this argument.



Your avatar is Thundurus.

You're right about the argument though, how about we talk about some Espeonage.
How do you guys honestly feel about Snake's chances at this point?

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Honestly you really come off sounding obnoxious here, like there's having opinions and there's being so entitled to them as to just dismiss everyone else's. A roster of 47 characters only comes from the notion that the gematsu newcomers are the only remaining, wich is possible, but you don't know that, you also have no idea on Sakurai's stance on Mewtwo's case either, and just assuming that he doesn't care about him and his demand as well as just assuming he's a boss just because you don't like him it's rather hypocritical, you claim to have so much evidence for all of this but where is evidence for Mewtwo's boss inclusion other than your out of your butt logic.
The Mario theory bull**** that you are so entitled to it's nothing more than an observable pattern, not a bloody sacred rule, and your whole logic about the CSS on the 3ds screen is flawed, Sakurai has shrinked the boxes before, the screen can slide, you cannot just claim that the roster is damned to be like you say and expect everyone to agree.

You're right, I don't know it. But there's even less evidence that points toward 51 + R or 53 + R, yet that gets lapped up by everyone left and right because of blind fanboyism and straw grasping. If the 3DS screen scrolled, then the Wii U CSS and the 3DS CSS could be exactly identical. Why have the character positions shifting about between the two? Developers aren't in the mood to double their workload just because. That's actual, tangible evidence right there that 51/53 is in trouble(if not outright dead), and everyone is choosing to dismiss and ignore because it doesn't fit their ~*dream roster*~. Get real. 47 + R works for both formats, but to fit on the 3DS screen it would require a shuffling of character positions. Much akin to what happened in the 3DS Smashfest Demo.

If we accept that the shuffling of icons actually means something, then 47 + R becomes very likely. Given that, this means slots are at a very high premium and Mewtwo in particular is facing stiff opposition from an O12, Jigglypuff. Both are not going to get in a 47 + R roster. It's one or the other. Strangely enough, this also applies to another little power struggle going on right now between two other characters. One's an O12, the other's a Brawlite. Gematsu, which I think we can all agree at this point is absolutely ironclad, states that the non-O12 is likely to get the boot. So if someone who was in the recent game is likely to lose out to their O12 counterpart, what makes you guys think a no-show like Mewtwo stands a chance against Jigglypuff who has the following behind her:

- O12.
- Fits in the last Pokemon slot with no fuss.
- Sakurai bias.

Mewtwo's either dust in the wind(which if you look at it from the right angle means possible DLC, so yay that I guess) or a Boss Hazard(which seals his fate, period). The only way he's in a 47 roster is if there's another cut made to a different veteran.

Just going to throw it out there, but the way you're responding is coming across as trollish.

You have to be on crack to seriously not see Mewtwo as an All-Star. If you're going to ignore the fact that he's the most requested character for this game, and that most of it comes from his previous appearance in Melee, then there is nothing to discuss further.

Just because you don't like him doesn't mean you need to rain on everybody else's parade.

Not trying to rain, but I'm getting annoyed with the very selective blinders people are applying to speculation. I'm only interested in digging to the truth of the roster. Mewtwo was an All-Star, but he's fallen from grace and he's not on his way back up anytime soon despite Game Freak's push. Nostalgia and rose-colored glasses aren't going to be enough to bring him back, particularly since most genwunners' desires are sated in Charizard's newfound prominence. Sakurai's apparent disregard is not something to overlook.

RubberWolf, you're an idiot, aren't you?
Don't answer that; I know you're going to lie.

You have proven to me that
a. you don't know **** about character development
b. you have an extreme bias against Mewtwo to where you have nothing better to do than troll and make stupid arguments
c. you are completely ignorant about both Lucario and Mewtwo (since you think Lucario's is currently in the same position Mewtwo was in back in Brawl's development)
d. attempts to educate you are just going to be a waste of time, something I can't really waste at this point.

So yeah, *ignored*.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

You're right about the argument though, how about we talk about some Espeonage.
How do you guys honestly feel about Snake's chances at this point?

The only thing Snake has going for him at this point is Snake Eater 3DS. His chances are, to be honest, not good.

 

[Deleted member]

You're right about the argument though, how about we talk about some Espeonage.
How do you guys honestly feel about Snake's chances at this point?

I say 50/50.
But I'm on the "glass is half-empty" side of the outcome.

Kojima said he's not likely to be in the new Smash, but he could be trolling.
Reuben Langdon said he mixed up "playing Raiden" in Smash Bros. with PSASBR and it could be referring to MOCAP rather than voicing (since Langdon didn't voice him and MOCAP isn't credited in the game), but it could also potentially be a huge cover-up for something Langdon accidentally revealed.

Who knows?

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

The only thing Snake has going for him at this point is Snake Eater 3DS. His chances are, to be honest, not good.

I think Snake was argued about a bit earlier(or maybe I fought that battle in a different thread, it's all becoming a blur at this point). Alas, I don't think he's making it in either. Kojima's words do not bode well for Snake, and he's one of the cuts required to make 47 + R work anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

You're right about the argument though, how about we talk about some Espeonage.
How do you guys honestly feel about Snake's chances at this point?

Considering how much emphasis sakurai has put on the third-parties(and Mario) we already have, not very likely. But if we get DLC, I'm sure he'll be back.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Not trying to rain, but I'm getting annoyed with the very selective blinders people are applying to speculation. I'm only interested in digging to the truth of the roster. Mewtwo was an All-Star, but he's fallen from grace and he's not on his way back up despite Game Freak's push. Nostalgia and rose-colored glasses aren't going to be enough to bring him back, particular since most genwunners' desires are sated in Charizard's newfound prominence. Sakurai's apparent disregard is not something to overlook.

First off, Mewtwo is still an incredibly popular Pokemon, and an incredibly popular Smash Bros character, whose "fall from grace" is according to you continuing even though he remains the #1 most wanted character.

Second, Mewtwo isn't wanted because of some Gen 1 representation obsession. He's wanted because he's freaking Mewtwo.

Third, there is absolutely, positively zero proof that Sakurai doesn't like Mewtwo. Zero. The more likely scenario is that time constraints are what led to him getting the boot in Brawl. Why would he add Mewtwo, who is more work to program, when he could add the incredibly easy to program Jigglypuff?

I will agree that Jiggly will get in before Mewtwo, but to say he got the boot because of some crazy conspiracy you've come up with? I have to say I think you're crazy. Especially because you have no proof and continue to treat it as fact.

It's not "disregard". It's called making a choice. Unfortunately, Sakurai chose to go with the easier character rather than Mewtwo. That does not mean he "hates" Mewtwo in any way. Especially, considering there is evidence to suggest Mewtwo was always considered to be a Smash character since 64.

 

[ihskeyp]

You're right about the argument though, how about we talk about some Espeonage.
How do you guys honestly feel about Snake's chances at this point?

It seems like we already have all the 3rd party representation that we'll be getting. I've thought for a while that Snake will be cut from the roster. I wouldn't mind his return, but I'm thinking he's gonna be cut.

 

[False Sense]

Not trying to rain, but I'm getting annoyed with the very selective blinders people are applying to speculation. I'm only interested in digging to the truth of the roster. Mewtwo was an All-Star, but he's fallen from grace and he's not on his way back up despite Game Freak's push. Nostalgia and rose-colored glasses aren't going to be enough to bring him back, particular since most genwunners' desires are sated in Charizard's newfound prominence. Sakurai's apparent disregard is not something to overlook.

I find it very hard to understand how you could say Mewtwo is not currently an All-Star. Yes, Mewtwo was an All-Star, and yes, Game Freak is pushing him. But how is he not an All-Star at this point? All that emphasis Game Freak has placed on Mewtwo has made him more prominent than he's ever been. He's basically an icon for Pokemon nowadays (that is, more so than he already was). And it's not like his popularity has faded. If anything, it's increased. Mewtwo's not some old star that they're trying to revive with little success; he's a character that has always been important and popular, and is now seeing even further prominence because of all his popularity. I'd say he's more of an all-star now than he was back in the day.

Also, I would say that Sakurai'a apparent interest in Mewtwo, having planned on having Mewtwo in every Smash to date and having gone out of his way to say that he was thinking about having a form of Mewtwo in Smash 4, is not something to overlook.

 

[Deleted member]

Considering that the first movie was a huge part of why Sakurai tried to include Mewtwo in 64 and then did in Melee, it stands to reason that the recent movie that starred Mewtwo (despite being "Femtwo", not the original) would be a major influence this time around.
As well as Origins, but moreso the "main" anime movie.

....though the Origins characterization would better reflect Smash Mewtwo.

 

[Twin Shot]

I wouldn't necessarily count Mewtwo out for certain either.
Even if he doesn't make the initial cut, he would probably be a DLC character if they have it.

- Mewtwo Considered for SSB64
- Mewtwo in Melee
- Mewtwo Coding in Brawl

That's EVERY game so far released in the series that he's somehow touched (as playable).
Even then, the comment was made by Sakurai about his new form in the most current games, and even if fallen from grace x/y puts him back on the map.

Can find evidence for it, can find evidence against it. Really, up to what you want to believe.

Will be honest, though, would like to see EVERYONE come back.
Not a huge fan of cuts and think it would be awesome to see those like Dr.Mario and Mewtwo (and even those that get cut initially from the new smash) come back as some form of DLC.

As much as I want Snake, I am about 50.50 on him as well.
If anything, I think that Big Boss stands a relatively good chance to replace Snake like Toon Link did to Young Link (if even in the game).

 

[Espio264]

You're right, I don't know it. But there's even less evidence that points toward 51 + R or 53 + R, yet that gets lapped up by everyone left and right because of blind fanboyism and straw grasping. If the 3DS screen scrolled, then the Wii U CSS and the 3DS CSS could be exactly identical. Why have the character positions shifting about between the two?

Gonna argue this with your very words...

Plus, if we're arguing layouts(OH BOY)

Nostalgia and rose-colored glasses aren't going to be enough to bring him back, particularly since most genwunners' desires are sated in Charizard's newfound prominence.

Yet there's a whole mess of us fighting you on this RIGHT NOW. Imagine all of the smart Mewtwo fans out there who are asleep at this very moment. I love Charizard, and sure, he's more iconic, but my "Genwunner desires" are clearly not "sated." And I can bet the same goes for 75% of "genwunners."

Developers aren't in the mood to double their workload just because. That's actual, tangible evidence right there that 51/53 is in trouble(if not outright dead), and everyone is choosing to dismiss and ignore because it doesn't fit their ~*dream roster*~. Get real. 47 + R works for both formats, but to fit on the 3DS screen it would require a shuffling of character positions. Much akin to what happened in the 3DS Smashfest Demo.

"Developers aren't in the mood to double their workload" and "Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS" are already opposing statements.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think Snake, should he be cut, can come back as DLC assuming Sakurai speaks with Kojima again. It's not like 3rd parties can't be added post release. Look at Isaac Clarke in PSASBR.

I'd like to make a big stink to campaign for Snake as DLC. But we'll see.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Eh, these conversations suck. Let's talk about something new.


So, Splatoon and STEAM were shown off at E3, with us having no prior knowledge of them. Is it possible Sakurai will pull a Roy, and add an Inkling or Bill Rizer a STEAM character to advertise them more? Or are we ignoring the fact and saying something like that will never happen? Personally, I think we have an inkling i'msosorry of a chance.

I'm all for the Inklings, they already look like they'd be perfect characters for Smash...let's hope the game becomes a franchise so they actually have a chance for the next Smash title...or DLC, who knows?

Also...is the topic really Mewtwo? At least here I don't need to deal with people saying "Sceptile confirmed 4 Smash" but come on guys...so many people doubt Mewtwo, especially considering there's still no character that plays like him in Smash.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Snake likely won't be back, it was a huge shock seeing him in SSBB simply because he doesn't exactly represent Nintendo as all the other characters do. I'll admit though, competing against him in Brawl was fun, and I wouldn't mind seeing him back. But I'm not holding my breath for him.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Guys, Snake's obviously gone. This video should sum it up pretty quickly.

Not sure if this follows the rules or not...

Spoiler

Nah, but really, I think Snake's 50/50, but unlike Golden, I look at the glass as half-full

 

[Chandeelure]

._.

 

[Hotfeet444]

On the topic of Mewtwo...look at it this way:


This character is a character that has been intended to be playable in every single Smash game in existence so far, originally meant to be one of the original Smash 64 characters...always meant to be included regardless of how popular and/or strong he was at the time...

During the time of development and roster choosing, Mewtwo was:

A.) The first pokemon being set up to mega evolve
B.) Was going to be set up as the frontrunner of gen 6 and Mega Evolution
C.) Was a heavily focused pokemon and was to be the star of the new upcoming movie (Which Sakurai stated before that he considers when choosing the newer pokemon, like Lucario in Brawl)

So allow me to ask you a question...why would Mewtwo NOT be in the game now when he's possibly more popular now than he was at the time of Melee's release and riding the fame of Mewtwo Strikes Back? Why would Sakurai turn down the most wanted character, a character with little to no similarities to other characters STILL, and could be a completely unique character while representing Y-Exclusive Mega Evolutions like Charizard represents X...

It's basically an inevitable thing here people, Sakurai may be insane, but he's not downright psychotic enough to miss the chance to include a character that is not only a character wanted the world over, but is a character he already knows how to develop and create.

Face it people, Mewtwo's already in.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Spoiler

First off, Mewtwo is still an incredibly popular Pokemon, and an incredibly popular Smash Bros character, whose "fall from grace" is according to you continuing even though he remains the #1 most wanted character.

Spoiler

Mewtwo's territory is completely trampled by characters who not only did it first but have already gotten in. Movie Poke? Lucario. Mascot? Pikachu. Traditional hidden Poke? Jiggly. Genwun? Charizard. X/Y? Greninja. Mega Evo? Lucario and Charizard. There's nowhere for him to fit, at least not among the playable cast. Now, his Legendary status serves him well as a Boss..

Second, Mewtwo isn't wanted because of some Gen 1 representation obsession. He's wanted because he's freaking Mewtwo.

He doesn't hold universal attraction, obviously. Plus, we've got more than enough Gen-1 representation. If he's not representing that, what is he representing?

Third, there is absolutely, positively zero proof that Sakurai doesn't like Mewtwo. Zero. The more likely scenario is that time constraints are what led to him getting the boot in Brawl. Why would he add Mewtwo, who is more work to program, when he could add the incredibly easy to program Jigglypuff?

Sakurai had every chance to bump a different character and keep work going on Mewtwo. He could have easily decided to toss Wolf or TL. Do you really think Mewtwo, a character already made once required more work than Wolf, an all-new character?

I will agree that Jiggly will get in before Mewtwo, but to say he got the boot because of some crazy conspiracy you've come up with? I have to say I think you're crazy. Especially because you have no proof and continue to treat it as fact.

What conspiracy? Sakurai obviously doesn't think Mewtwo was worth bumping anyone else for, so he's gone.

It's not "disregard". It's called making a choice. Unfortunately, Sakurai chose to go with the easier character rather than Mewtwo. That does not mean he "hates" Mewtwo in any way. Especially, considering there is evidence to suggest Mewtwo was always considered to be a Smash character since 64.

Which is great, but it never worked out for him except in Melee. Where, undeniably, he was trash. Sakurai then probably took that into consideration when deciding who to cut when push came to shove.

Gonna argue this with your very words...

What're you proving with that, exactly?

Yet there's a whole mess of us fighting you on this RIGHT NOW. Imagine all of the smart Mewtwo fans out there who are asleep at this very moment. I love Charizard, and sure, he's more iconic, but my "Genwunner desires" are clearly not "sated." And I can bet the same goes for 75% of "genwunners."

Mewtwo had his shot in Melee, and was poorly received there. There was legitimate confusion as to his absence in Brawl, but everyone's gotten over the Mewtwo fever in the ensuing six years except the diehards. Sakurai threw Charizard to genwunners because of that iconic status he enjoys(which also helped him survive PT's boot). Plus, regardless of Mewtwo's demand, he's not going to get in 47 + R. The math just isn't there.

I find it very hard to understand how you could say Mewtwo is not currently an All-Star. Yes, Mewtwo was an All-Star, and yes, Game Freak is pushing him. But how is he not an All-Star at this point? All that emphasis Game Freak has placed on Mewtwo has made him more prominent than he's ever been. He's basically an icon for Pokemon nowadays (that is, more so than he already was). And it's not like his popularity has faded. If anything, it's increased. Mewtwo's not some old star that they're trying to revive with little success; he's a character that has always been important and popular, and is now seeing even further prominence because of all his popularity. I'd say he's more of an all-star now than he was back in the day.

He was featured only because the anime was being rebooted in a sense, and in that very anime, he got bodied by Charizard. As in barely even registered to Charizard's notice. He's one-and-done even there! I'm not even a Charizard fan and I recognize a curbstomping when I see it.

Also, I would say that Sakurai'a apparent interest in Mewtwo, having planned on having Mewtwo in every Smash to date and having gone out of his way to say that he was thinking about having a form of Mewtwo in Smash 4, is not something to overlook.

Sakurai's been eager to experiment with Mewtwo, yes, but that eagerness was satisfied in Melee apparently. Brawl's decision to cut him out wasn't just due to time, and the consideration of Mewtwo's form could easily be for a boss, rather than a playable character. For a Legendary whose content can be spread across both platforms, that makes sense. Y on one system, X on the other.

 

[Twin Shot]

Just want to ask, does any one else see Big Boss more likely than Solid Snake (if he makes it in)?

Last game on Nintendo system was MGS3DS and most current upcoming release is MGS5.
Would make sense to hit both those points.

Keifer said he was in the new MK game, but Ed Boon didn't acknowledge that like he did with the MKX leak.
MK has never had a big name attached to it, so would've imagined they would've hyped that up with the E3 announcement.
Trying to justify, I know, but maybe Keifer did some grunts and some speaking for a fighting game and maybe he was confused because they are both "fighting" games...like the PSASBR guy.

Also, this:

=p

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Just want to ask, does any one else see Big Boss more likely than Solid Snake (if he makes it in)?

Last game on Nintendo system was MGS3DS and most current upcoming release is MGS5.
Would make sense to hit both those points.

Keifer said he was in the new MK game, but Ed Boon didn't acknowledge that like he did with the MKX leak.
MK has never had a big name attached to it, so would've imagined they would've hyped that up with the E3 announcement.
Trying to justify, I know, but maybe Keifer did some grunts and some speaking for a fighting game and maybe he was confused because they are both "fighting" games...like the PSASBR guy.

Also, this:

=p

If Snake somehow makes it in, then yeah, I can see Big Boss, if only because Solid Snake as a character has pretty much vanished. All of the upcoming stuff and recent stuff features BB.

 

[False Sense]

On the topic of Mewtwo...look at it this way:

This character is a character that has been intended to be playable in every single Smash game in existence so far, originally meant to be one of the original Smash 64 characters...always meant to be included regardless of how popular and/or strong he was at the time...

During the time of development and roster choosing, Mewtwo was:

A.) The first pokemon being set up to mega evolve
B.) Was going to be set up as the frontrunner of gen 6 and Mega Evolution
C.) Was a heavily focused pokemon and was to be the star of the new upcoming movie (Which Sakurai stated before that he considers when choosing the newer pokemon, like Lucario in Brawl)

So allow me to ask you a question...why would Mewtwo NOT be in the game now when he's possibly more popular now than he was at the time of Melee's release and riding the fame of Mewtwo Strikes Back? Why would Sakurai turn down the most wanted character, a character with little to no similarities to other characters STILL, and could be a completely unique character while representing Y-Exclusive Mega Evolutions like Charizard represents X...

It's basically an inevitable thing here people, Sakurai may be insane, but he's not downright psychotic enough to miss the chance to include a character that is not only a character wanted the world over, but is a character he already knows how to develop and create.

Face it people, Mewtwo's already in.

Why would Mewtwo not be in? Well, according to recent arguments, it's because no series can have more slots (not characters, slots) on the character select screen than the Mario series, and because Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo, who is no longer an all-star.

Well, I didn't say they were good arguments.

 

[Khoru]

Why would Mewtwo not be in? Well, according to recent arguments, it's because no series can have more slots (not characters, slots) on the character select screen than the Mario series, and because Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo, who is no longer an all-star.

Well, I didn't say they were good arguments.

additionally, a demo character select screen is a good way to gauge the roster size

 

[Hotfeet444]

Why would Mewtwo not be in? Well, according to recent arguments, it's because no series can have more slots (not characters, slots) on the character select screen than the Mario series, and because Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo, who is no longer an all-star.

Well, I didn't say they were good arguments.

Well...they are indeed terrible arguments, but one simple question basically destroys it. If Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo...why was a full texture, win theme, and more of Mewtwo found on the disc of Brawl? If Sakurai did not care about Mewtwo, there would have been no data of Mewtwo in Brawl and would have been completely left out, like that of Young Link.

It's basically fact that Sonic's inclusion got in the way of development late in Brawl's development cycle and caused a pushback in developing other characters...how can that NOT connect back to Mewtwo, who was most likely set to be one of the penultimate unlockable characters?

 

[Twin Shot]

Why would Mewtwo not be in? Well, according to recent arguments, it's because no series can have more slots (not characters, slots) on the character select screen than the Mario series, and because Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo, who is no longer an all-star.

Well, I didn't say they were good arguments.

Right. This is because Pokemon Trainer takes up one spot where as all the Mario Characters take up their own.

We will just simply disregard the fact that all of the Pokemon in the Pokemon Trainers arsenal had to have their own trophy earned individually and had to be fought separately both in classic (if encountered) and all star mode. Because as you know, complete movesets do not count!

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Why would Mewtwo not be in? Well, according to recent arguments, it's because no series can have more slots (not characters, slots) on the character select screen than the Mario series, and because Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo, who is no longer an all-star.

- Slots remain equal, disparage it all you want. The numbers crunch in my favor.
- Sakurai's got no interest in Mewtwo as a playable character. As a Boss, he likely sees potential, just like Ridley.
- Mewtwo will always have the stain of being the sole cut non-clone when actual clones got passed through. It means something.

Well...they are indeed terrible arguments, but one simple question basically destroys it. If Sakurai has no interest in Mewtwo...why was a full texture, win theme, and more of Mewtwo found on the disc of Brawl? If Sakurai did not care about Mewtwo, there would have been no data of Mewtwo in Brawl and would have been completely left out, like that of Young Link.

Red text. Ew. Anyway, he didn't care about Mewtwo enough to prioritize him in any way, that much is obvious. So much for the all-star treatment, huh? Or maybe the Ice Climbers are more important than Mewtwo after all...

It's basically fact that Sonic's inclusion got in the way of development late in Brawl's development cycle and caused a pushback in developing other characters...how can that NOT connect back to Mewtwo, who was most likely set to be one of the penultimate unlockable characters?

And Mewtwo didn't enjoy any kind of priority, despite his supposed All-star status. He got dumped, plain and simple.

Right. This is because Pokemon Trainer takes up one spot where as all the Mario Characters take up their own.

Er, yes? Where's the dispute here?

We will just simply disregard the fact that all of the Pokemon in the Pokemon Trainers arsenal had to have their own trophy earned individually and had to be fought separately both in classic (if encountered) and all star mode. Because as you know, complete movesets do not count!

This doesn't hamper the Mario Theory in the least, but thanks for trying. 47 + R looms over your head.

additionally, a demo character select screen is a good way to gauge the roster size

Because developers would just shift around character orders because they really love the ~*mystery*~.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Mewtwo will be back, regardless of slots and regardless of what people think on the matter...be it wanting him back or wanting him out. I'm positive Sakurai was adding him no matter what.

 

[False Sense]

He was featured only because the anime was being rebooted in a sense, and in that very anime, he got bodied by Charizard. As in barely even registered to Charizard's notice. He's one-and-done even there! I'm not even a Charizard fan and I recognize a curbstomping when I see it.

Sakurai's been eager to experiment with Mewtwo, yes, but that eagerness was satisfied in Melee apparently. Brawl's decision to cut him out wasn't just due to time, and the consideration of Mewtwo's form could easily be for a boss, rather than a playable character. For a Legendary whose content can be spread across both platforms, that makes sense. Y on one system, X on the other.

Well, yes, Mewtwo's role in Origins was likely due to the emphasis that special placed on the original games. But Origins is not everything. That's completely ignoring Mewtwo's role in the Genesect movie and the fact that Mewtwo was the first Pokemon revealed to have a Mega Evolution, before Mega Evolution was even a known thing. Oh, and he also got a second Mega Evolution as well. That all didn't happen due to some anime special, Mewtwo got all that special treatment because he's one of the most popular Pokemon of all time. What happened in the anime was a result of that, not the other way around.

Also, here's something to consider: if time wasn't an issue, if Sonic hadn't put strains on development, we would have had Mewtwo in Brawl. Time was the issue. It can be debated thy Mewtwo was the one chosen to be cut due to those time constraints, but the fact is that if those time constraints did not exist, we'd still have Mewtwo and we wouldn't be debating this.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Red text. Ew. Anyway, he didn't care about Mewtwo enough to prioritize him in any way, that much is obvious. So much for the all-star treatment, huh? Or maybe the Ice Climbers are more important than Mewtwo after all...

*Ahem* The fact is that there's nothing to prove that Sakurai did not plan for Mewtwo to be one of the last unlockable characters in the game, along with Roy. And again, if he didn't like Mewtwo, WHY WAS HE IN THE GAME AT ALL? Also, the fact that that literally proves nothing makes me question why you even bothered replying in the first place. A wasted reply? Ew.

Edit: Also...Mr. Game & Watch, Gaming all-star and historian...was the last character included into Melee...that must mean he was low priority too and not intended to be a penultimate unlockable right?

 

[Khoru]

Because developers would just shift around character orders because they really love the ~*mystery*~.

i'm not trying to argue the character order. the character order remained the same between the brawl demo roster, the starting roster, and the full roster. this is significantly different than the css format itself - i.e. the boxes - which, as has been pointed out, did change in size between the demo and release despite both having three rows.