Character Discussion Thread

[False Sense]

Objectively speaking; inevitability does exist as the characters are already on the roster, we are just speculating in regards to who they might be. However, I certainly agree on the concept of Miis being utterly flawed. They have more merit than most Nintendo characters, that does not; however, mean that they have very much evidence in their favor.

Yes, if we want to be quite literal about the matter, then characters are either guarantees or are impossible. Every characters has either 100% or 0% chance of being on the roster. But until we get a direct confirmation of such, we can't make the assumption that any character is a guarantee. We simply don't know if that's the case, and it is fallacious to assume something to be inevitable without absolute proof to back it up. The Miis do not have absolute proof. They have justifications and evidence in their favor. But they also have reasons to not be included, and evidence that works against them.

 

[Morbi]

Yes, if we to be quite literal about the matter, then characters are either guarantees or are impossible. Every characters has either 100% or 0% chance of being on the roster. But until we get a direct confirmation of such, we can't make the assumption that any character is a guarantee. We simply don't know if that's the case, and it is fallacious to assume something to be inevitable without absolute proof to back it up. The Miis do not have absolute proof. They have justifications and evidence in their favor. But they also have reasons to not be included, and evidence that works against them.

Precisely, whereas a character such as Mewtwo is essentially guaranteed as he has "absolute" evidence to support his inclusion. One must weigh and evaluate the evidence, most characters have both positive and negative attributes, some have only positive attributes and lastly some only have negative aspects that contradict their inclusion. We arbitrarily assign value to this evidence to determine an arbitrary likelihood for the character. After that, as we fear being incorrect we ensure that it is overt and apparent that the characters "still have a chance" or "might not be included," through pathetic disclaimers. However, as a Sith Lord, I do deal in absolutes. Is it fallacious? Of course. I interpret it as necessary evil for the sake of fun.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Great read False Sense.

I hadn't really analyzed the stages, and the Pilotwings stage most certainly does not represent Mii's stage. Heck wasn't there a Wii Fit game that also took place in Wuhu Island?

But the fact that Miis appear in ways other than playable already, speaks against Mii's playable status if you ask me.

 

[False Sense]

Precisely, whereas a character such as Mewtwo is essentially guaranteed as he has "absolute" evidence to support his inclusion. One must weigh and evaluate the evidence, most characters have both positive and negative attributes, some have only positive attributes and lastly some only have negative aspects that contradict their inclusion. We arbitrarily assign value to this evidence to determine an arbitrary likelihood for the character. After that, as we fear being incorrect we ensure that it is overt and apparent that the characters "still has a chance" or "might not be included," through pathetic disclaimers. However, as a Sith Lord, I do deal in absolutes. Is it fallacious? Of course. I interpret it as necessary evil for the sake of fun.

Well, I personally wouldn't say Mewtwo is a guarantee due to the fact that his inclusion is not a known fact. Does he have every imaginable reason to be included? Yes. Is there evidence that would indicate that he is in the game? Yes. But while he has so much in his favor, we do not know for a fact that he is in the game, so it is technically fallacious to assume that he is.

But other than that, I agree with you.

 

[Starcutter]

Then you are not much into gaming? Or could it be that you didn´t care for PS1? Or perhaps you are more into classic games? Right now I don´t know how to answer your post but if you think Snake is not a major All Star in the video game world where he is maybe in the top 10 right now and before Brawl he was in that place, I don't know what to say.

.n_n.

I was 3 when the PS1 came out and didn't stray too much from nintendo. sure, I missed out on some stuff, but whatever.

You're really downplaying Metal Gear Solid. The original Metal Gear Solid was one of the best selling games on the PS1 and was extremely well received. This is a trend that is basically repeated for every main-series Metal Gear Solid game on Sony consoles. It was the franchise that put Stealth genre on the map basically.
I'm sorry, but even I fall into your same boat of not knowing who Snake was before Brawl, and I know that you're not a very representative sample.
Metal Gear Solid wasn't Sonic, Mario, or Pikachu, sure, but that doesn't mean that a lot of people didn't play it.
That's not to say that Brawl didn't introduce a lot of people to Snake, but a lot of people already knew who Snake was. Or "Liquid," "Big Boss," or whatever.
If you really need me to I'll pull up some sales figures or something, but just trust me on this.

well, I guess that was just my experience with it, then. I did Know that his franchise was popular, just I didn't imagine it was so popular that everyone and their mothers knew who solid snake was.


You both will agree that brawl did make more people know about MGS and snake, though, right?

also, you dodged my paragraph that I did research on to somewhat assault me on a mindless point I made. gee thanks.

 

[Morbi]

Well, I personally wouldn't say Mewtwo is a guarantee due to the fact that his inclusion is not a known fact. Does he have every imaginable reason to be included? Yes. Is there evidence that would indicate that he is in the game? Yes. But while he has so much in his favor, we do not know for a fact that he is in the game, so it is technically fallacious to assume that he is.

But other than that, I agree with you.

It is technically erroneous; however, as there is not a single piece of evidence antithetical to his inclusion, the evidence in his favor is absolute by definition. I feel as though it is fairly logical to assert that he is in the game. The same cannot be said for any other character pertaining to our speculation patterns.

 

[Zhadgon]

The icon argument is a part, yes. But this is an analysis of everything related to Miis that we've seen in Smash so far. After all, from what research I've done into people's opinions on the Miis, most people are convinced of their playability because of all the "evidence" in their favor. So I figured, why not analyze that evidence and see how it holds up? Does it all actually guarantee the Mii's inclusion, or have we been a little hasty with our assumptions? So, with that said...

Damaging Evidence

- Like you say Pilot Wings has been a long series before Miis were created but taking that into context it could mean is representing itself like ElectroPlankton and SmashVille in Brawl, does it takes and gives more pros or cons to Miis? Not really.

- Is a form to represent you in the big world of Nintendo and Sakurai used that to show the online aspect of the game and how could it translate to the new Smash, he could have used words but it would be difficult to understand for the people that watch the video and don´t understand the language but with a character like Mii is easier (I did watch the Direct in japanese and the Miis made it easier to understand what was happening an what was explaining Sakurai, instead of using words that would be more difficult to grasp).

- Villager does not affect the chances of Miis, is like comparing apples and oranges, like you say Miis could take movesets from all the games they have appeared until today from Wii Sports, Find Mii, Tomadochi Life, NintendoLand, Wii Party, Wii Music, Wii Play they could pull more moves from all this games and be complete different than Villager.

- And once again you know the Alfonzo Complex and means anything at all for now, is a 50/50 scenario.

- And now your main argument and main base of your post, the symbol. The crown symbol could represent Find Mii like Pilot Wings represents their main series, does it mean it could disprove Miis? Not exactly we haven't watch or know all the playable stages and Sakurai could still make a specific stage for Mii that he hasn't show off, or the simple answer maybe the symbol for Miis is the crown? or they will get their own symbol and connect it with Tomadochi Life for 3DS and Unknown stage for Wii U that could correlate with them and Sakurai hasn't show it so he will not spoil the surprise, there are many explanations and once again the symbols are not the whole story and should not been considered as a main argument for the inclusion or exclusion of the Miis.

For me all this points are moot because they dosen´t disapprove or approve any position, what is going for the Miis right now are that they have become Nintendo All Stars and are shoulder with shoulder with Mario, Pikachu, DK, Kirby and Link and no one could deny that, that is the most important thing and what gives them more chances than many characters.

.n_n.

 

[Morbi]

Damaging Evidence

- Like you say Pilot Wings has been a long series before Miis were created but taking that into context it could mean is representing itself like ElectroPlankton and SmashVille in Brawl, does it takes and gives more pros or cons to Miis? Not really.

- Is a form to represent you in the big world of Nintendo and Sakurai used that to show the online aspect of the game and how could it translate to the new Smash, he could have used words but it would be difficult to understand for the people that watch the video and don´t understand the language but with a character like Mii is easier (I did watch the Direct in japanese and the Miis made it easier to understand what was happening an what was explaining Sakurai, instead of using words that would be more difficult to grasp).

- Villager does not affect the chances of Miis, is like comparing apples and oranges, like you say Miis could take movesets from all the games they have appeared until today from Wii Sports, Find Mii, Tomadochi Life, NintendoLand, Wii Party, Wii Music, Wii Play they could pull more moves from all this games and be complete different than Villager.

- And once again you know the Alfonzo Complex and means anything at all for now, is a 50/50 scenario.

- And now your main argument and main base of your post, the symbol. The crown symbol could represent Find Mii like Pilot Wings represents their main series, does it mean it could disprove Miis? Not exactly we haven't watch or know all the playable stages and Sakurai could still make a specific stage for Mii that he hasn't show off, or the simple answer maybe the symbol for Miis is the crown? or they will get their own symbol and connect it with Tomadochi Life for 3DS and Unknown stage for Wii U that could correlate with them and Sakurai hasn't show it so he will not spoil the surprise, there are many explanations and once again the symbols are not the whole story and should not been considered as a main argument for the inclusion or exclusion of the Miis.

For me all this points are moot because they dosen´t disapprove or approve any position, what is going for the Miis right now are that they have become Nintendo All Stars and are shoulder with shoulder with Mario, Pikachu, DK, Kirby and Link and no one could deny that, that is the most important thing and what gives them more chances than many characters.

.n_n.

Perhaps you would like to assert what evidence they have in their favor? Objectively speaking, the evidence provided to you was not negligible just because your confirmation bias made it negligible.

 

[False Sense]

For me all this points are moot because they dosen´t disapprove or approve any position, what is going for the Miis right now are they have become Nintendo All Stars that are shoulder with shoulder with Mario, Pikachu, DK, Kirby and Link and no one could deny that, that is the most important thing and what gives them more chances than many characters.

.n_n.

I think that way of thinking is faulty logic. Just because evidence doesn't entirely prove or disprove an argument, that doesn't mean it can be ignored. By that logic, there is no such thing as evidence, only proof. And the only proof we have in speculation is direct de-confirmations or confirmations. Evidence cannot simply be ignored just because it doesn't absolutely prove or disprove something. That's what makes it evidence, not proof.

 

[Deleted member]

There's that word again. I fail to see how being disappointed/disliking a character addition makes one entitled. Does complaining about tripping or Brawl's gameplay makes one entitled as well? After all, both were additions that (generally) didn't meet many's expectations.

You didn't read the entire post and just fixated on that one word, didn't you?

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I don't even see why we're arguing about Mii's. It's fairly obvious to see that the chances for Mii's inclusion, for better or for worse, are extremely in its favor. It's a character that represents the player, represents one of the most popular consoles in Nintendo's history (inb4 Wii Fail Trainer) and comes ready-made with its own gimmick:

YOU are the fighter!

Sorry, but I'd say that the odds are that Mii's are going to get in, no matter how much me, you, or anyone else don't want them to be.

 

[shrooby]

also, you dodged my paragraph that I did research on to somewhat assault me on a mindless point I made. gee thanks.

That's because I didn't disagree with that paragraph, silly!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In a hypothetical scenario, what would be your reaction if Brash the Bear was revealed at E3?

Also on a different subject, the important thing to notice that regardless of who is revealed at E3, using promotional value to determine who could be revealed there is pointless and meaningless as none of the E3 2013 newcomers were used to promote any upcoming games. Speculation about whether or not a character could be used at E3 to promote a different game is a subject that I have seen come up often and I felt the need to point this out.

 

[AncientTobacco]

I don't even see why we're arguing about Mii's. It's fairly obvious to see that the chances for Mii's inclusion, for better or for worse, are extremely in its favor. It's a character that represents the player, represents one of the most popular consoles in Nintendo's history (inb4 Wii Fail Trainer) and comes ready-made with its own gimmick:

YOU are the fighter!

Sorry, but I'd say that the odds are that Mii's are going to get in, no matter how much me, you, or anyone else don't want them to be.

If it's so "obvious" then I assume you have great counter-arguments to the points False Sense made in his analysis?

 

[The Light Music Club]

I don't even see why we're arguing about Mii's. It's fairly obvious to see that the chances for Mii's inclusion, for better or for worse, are extremely in its favor. It's a character that represents the player, represents one of the most popular consoles in Nintendo's history (inb4 Wii Fail Trainer) and comes ready-made with its own gimmick:

YOU are the fighter!

Sorry, but I'd say that the odds are that Mii's are going to get in, no matter how much me, you, or anyone else don't want them to be.

I'd say at this point it's actually not in their favor.

 

[shrooby]

In a hypothetical scenario, what would be your reaction if Brash the Bear was revealed at E3?

My immediate reaction would be to tell BKuppa666 to change his username to BBear666.
I would then request to be sent to an asylum because I would no doubt go crazy.

Spoiler

I would also claim that you're the new Sal Romano.

 

[Morbi]

I don't even see why we're arguing about Mii's. It's fairly obvious to see that the chances for Mii's inclusion, for better or for worse, are extremely in its favor. It's a character that represents the player, represents one of the most popular consoles in Nintendo's history (inb4 Wii Fail Trainer) and comes ready-made with its own gimmick:

YOU are the fighter!

Sorry, but I'd say that the odds are that Mii's are going to get in, no matter how much me, you, or anyone else don't want them to be.

I feel as though there is a difference between discerning their likelihood and their merit. No doubt that if any character ever "deserved" to be in Smash Brothers, it would be Mii. However, I feel as though there are quite a few overt detrimental aspects that you are blatantly disregarding because you are confusing inevitability with merit.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I feel as though there is a difference between discerning their likelihood and their merit. No doubt that if any character ever "deserved" to be in Smash Brothers, it would be Mii. However, I feel as though there are quite a few overt detrimental aspects that you are blatantly disregarding because you are confusing inevitability with merit.

I kind of agree. What might be the best choice might not always be the smartest/right one. I think King Dedede might be better than the melee clones, but it was a smarter move to bulk up the roster in melee.

 

[Xzsmmc]

You didn't read the entire post and just fixated on that one word, didn't you?

I did read the whole thing. Explain to me what I missed.

 

[Sobreviviente]

Miis are simply a tool, not a character itself.
They represent us, not a franchise, so, i dont really think there are any proofs of miis by any means

I still think they needs/will be playable.

 

[Zhadgon]

Perhaps you would like to assert what evidence they have in their favor? Objectively speaking, the evidence provided to you was not negligible just because your confirmation bias made it negligible.

Madam please, be less ostentatious with your post, I could understand most of it (I think), remember that many people, me included are from non native countries with english as a main language.

Anyway I didn't belittle his argument, is that the marks that he made in his post it would seem a direct nexus between stages shown so far with the Miis and how all of them could disapprove them because of the difference of symbols used to represent each other when in reality is really subjective, lets take for example the Assist Trophy from Saki (Sin & Punishment) why didn´t he use his own symbol? Other example Waluigi when was showed off in the direct he has the Wario Symbol, when in all his gaming career (can I use this term?) he has only show up once in his games as cameo, he is more of a Mario character than a Wario character, finally as we can see in the direct most of the things were still unpolished or not completed at all (Diddy and Lucario using their Brawl portraits in the gameplay scenes) so all is still subjective to change and once again we don´t have the complete list of stages to disregard the Miis of playable status, when we still need to know more about the game.

Those far the only hints has been the new levels but they are not all the main argument, one should look too to the Miis as characters and what have they become to Nintendo and their influence is so huge that so far out weights the main arguments against the character.

I do not believe that Snake was in the "top ten" gaming icons prior to Brawl; however, after his inclusion? Certainly, after that we had MGS4 and his appearance in Smash Brothers to increase his potential fan-base exponentially.

Not really with the huge success of PS1 and PS2 and his classic games he did position himself in really high standards to the point where his Star Status was at his peak (Cloud, Dante, Lara and Kratos were the only other Star Characters that could hold a candle to Snake), when the launch of PS3 came a lot of people did buy it to play its exclusives and one of the highest and most expected was MGS4 to the point where he was already proven to be an icon of the video game world and series that was system seller, even more than Sony First Party Character except maybe Kratos and then Nathan Drake.

I should have add that one of the things with MGS is that is enjoyed around the world from America to Asia to Europe and is highly acclaimed and prized, not many series could say that.

Eh, still, size for established characters like Olimar and Kirby is ok because there is no one like them. Mii's should have their own heights and weights.

@ False Sense Great post. The stage arguments make a ton of sense and made me even think Miis are even less likely now.

Why is ok for some characters and not for the other one? Remember Wii Sports in the box game, they didn´t make any difference of weights or heights? The same was for the Tennis one, and in Fortune Street they didn´t change at all only the appearance of the costume for the Miis (I think is the game with the most changes to them so far, correct if I´m wrong.

No is not, the stages could give hints but are not in any form disapprove them when we don`´t know all the stages for Wii U and 3DS is like saying Arena Ferox is the home stage of Robin or Chrom, does it hint to them? Yes but not in any form should be took as the only argument, when you need to look for the background of the character and what it represents to Nintendo.

I was 3 when the PS1 came out and didn't stray too much from nintendo. sure, I missed out on some stuff, but whatever.


well, I guess that was just my experience with it, then. I did Know that his franchise was popular, just I didn't imagine it was so popular that everyone and their mothers knew who solid snake was.


You both will agree that brawl did make more people know about MGS and snake, though, right?

also, you dodged my paragraph that I did research on to somewhat assault me on a mindless point I made. gee thanks.

Read my post where I answer the second quote.

.n_n.

 

[Morbi]

Madam please, be less ostentatious with your post, I could understand most of it (I think), remember that many people, me included are from non native countries with english as a main language.

Anyway I didn't belittle his argument, is that the marks that he made in his post it would seem a direct nexus between stages shown so far with the Miis and how all of them could disapprove them because of the difference of symbols used to represent each other when in reality is really subjective, lets take for example the Assist Trophy from Saki (Sin & Punishment) why didn´t he use his own symbol? Other example Waluigi when was showed off in the direct he has the Wario Symbol when in all his gaming career (can I use this term?) he has only show up once in his games as cameo, he is more of a Mario character than a Wario character, finally as we can see in the direct most of the things were still unpolished or not completed at all (Diddy and Lucario using their Brawl portraits in the gameplay scenes) so all is still subjective to change and once again we don´t the complete list of stages to disregard the Miis of playable status when we still need to know more about the game.

Those far the only hints has been the new levels but they are not all the main argument, one should look too to the Miis as characters and what have they become to Nintendo and their influence is huge so much that for out weights the main arguments agaisnt its character.


Not really with the huge success of PS1 and PS2 and his classic games he did position himself in really high standards to the point where his Star Status was at his peak (Cloud, Dante, Lara and Kratos were the only other Star Characters that could hold a candle to Snake), when the launch of PS3 came a lot of people did buy it to play its exclusives and one of the highest and most expected was MGS4 to the point where he was already proven to be an icon of the video game world and series that was system seller, even more than Sony First Party Character except maybe Kratos and then Nathan Drake.

I should have add that one of the things with MGS is that is enjoyed around the world from America to Asia to Europe and is highly acclaimed and prized, things that not many series could say.


Why is ok for some characters and not for the other one? Remember Wii Sports in the box game, they didn´t make any difference of weights or heights? The same was for the Tennis one, and in Fortune Street they didn´t change at all only the appearance of the costume for the Miis (I think is the game with the most changes to them so far, correct if I´m wrong.

No is not, the stages could give hints but are not in any form disapprove them when we don`´t know all the stages for Wii U and 3DS is like saying Arena Ferox is the home stage of Robin or Chrom, does it hint to them? Yes but not in any form should be took as the only argument, when you need to look for the background of the character and what it represents to Nintendo.

.n_n.

"Ostentatious"? We are done here; I do not appreciate the ad hominem.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Madam please, be less ostentatious with your post, I could understand most of it (I think), remember that many people, me included are from non native countries with english as a main language.

Anyway I didn't belittle his argument, is that the marks that he made in his post it would seem a direct nexus between stages shown so far with the Miis and how all of them could disapprove them because of the difference of symbols used to represent each other when in reality is really subjective, lets take for example the Assist Trophy from Saki (Sin & Punishment) why didn´t he use his own symbol? Other example Waluigi when was showed off in the direct he has the Wario Symbol when in all his gaming career (can I use this term?) he has only show up once in his games as cameo, he is more of a Mario character than a Wario character, finally as we can see in the direct most of the things were still unpolished or not completed at all (Diddy and Lucario using their Brawl portraits in the gameplay scenes) so all is still subjective to change and once again we don´t the complete list of stages to disregard the Miis of playable status when we still need to know more about the game.

Those far the only hints has been the new levels but they are not all the main argument, one should look too to the Miis as characters and what have they become to Nintendo and their influence is huge so much that for out weights the main arguments agaisnt its character.


Not really with the huge success of PS1 and PS2 and his classic games he did position himself in really high standards to the point where his Star Status was at his peak (Cloud, Dante, Lara and Kratos were the only other Star Characters that could hold a candle to Snake), when the launch of PS3 came a lot of people did buy it to play its exclusives and one of the highest and most expected was MGS4 to the point where he was already proven to be an icon of the video game world and series that was system seller, even more than Sony First Party Character except maybe Kratos and then Nathan Drake.

I should have add that one of the things with MGS is that is enjoyed around the world from America to Asia to Europe and is highly acclaimed and prized, things that not many series could say.


Why is ok for some characters and not for the other one? Remember Wii Sports in the box game, they didn´t make any difference of weights or heights? The same was for the Tennis one, and in Fortune Street they didn´t change at all only the appearance of the costume for the Miis (I think is the game with the most changes to them so far, correct if I´m wrong.

No is not, the stages could give hints but are not in any form disapprove them when we don`´t know all the stages for Wii U and 3DS is like saying Arena Ferox is the home stage of Robin or Chrom, does it hint to them? Yes but not in any form should be took as the only argument, when you need to look for the background of the character and what it represents to Nintendo.

.n_n.

Alright first of all, it's just that personally I do not like fixated height, and I NEVER will when it comes to Mii's.

And your analogy of using Robin and Chrom doesn't make sense. Why? Because the stage has the Fire Emblem logo, which we KNOW the will have. Also, with Find Mii, it actually has Mii in the name. Wouldn't this be part of the Mii franchise? Then it should have the universal logo of Mii's. One that would match the character from the same series. Luigi's Mansion is Luigi's home stage but it has a MARIO icon, not a Luigi one. Why? Because Luigi is part of the Mario franchise, not his own. A game that is focused around a certain character, should have a icon that matches that character.

 

[aldelaro5]

I need any mii supporter to answer this but... how exactly will they look like if they are there?

In mk8, they have a generic pilot suit and their coloring depends on the color of your mii. But, in ssb4, there's not really a generic look that would represent that so... how do you think they will look like?

 

[Deleted member]

I did read the whole thing. Explain to me what I missed.

they feel entitled to have every single of their expectations met.

Being disappointed about a "feature" that generally ruins the experience is much different than being pissy because you didn't get everything you wanted.

 

[False Sense]

Madam please, be less ostentatious with your post, I could understand most of it (I think), remember that many people, me included are from non native countries with english as a main language.

Anyway I didn't belittle his argument, is that the marks that he made in his post it would seem a direct nexus between stages shown so far with the Miis and how all of them could disapprove them because of the difference of symbols used to represent each other when in reality is really subjective, lets take for example the Assist Trophy from Saki (Sin & Punishment) why didn´t he use his own symbol? Other example Waluigi when was showed off in the direct he has the Wario Symbol, when in all his gaming career (can I use this term?) he has only show up once in his games as cameo, he is more of a Mario character than a Wario character, finally as we can see in the direct most of the things were still unpolished or not completed at all (Diddy and Lucario using their Brawl portraits in the gameplay scenes) so all is still subjective to change and once again we don´t have the complete list of stages to disregard the Miis of playable status, when we still need to know more about the game.

Those far the only hints has been the new levels but they are not all the main argument, one should look too to the Miis as characters and what have they become to Nintendo and their influence is so huge that so far out weights the main arguments against the character..

Saki doesn't have his own symbol because there is no Sin and Punishment character or stage present in the game. Only series that have characters or stages get icons, and if both are present, they share the icon.

And yes, we don't have a complete list of stages, so there may be other stages that could tie to the Miis. But that doesn't mean that we should completely ignore the one we know about, that should be associated with Miis yet uses a symbol that does not fit the Miis. And of course, none of the evidence here completely de-confirms the Miis. I never made that claim. But I would say it harms their chances. Just because it doesn't de-confirm them doesn't mean you can ignore it and act like it means nothing.

 

[Morbi]

I need any mii supporter to answer this but... how exactly will they look like if they are there?

In mk8, they have a generic pilot suit and their coloring depends on the color of your mii. But, in ssb4, there's not really a generic look that would represent that so... how do you think they will look like?

I am not entirely sure, whenever I consider it, that is one of the reasons I find them less likely. Mario Kart 8 gave them the suit and the helmet (which attenuates the design/purpose of the Mii) for the sake of making the game look better. Either Sakurai will port them over and they will look horrendous, or he will conceived a costume that can contributes to their design and add detail. I am more concerned about the counter-intuitive move-set that is antithetical to the purpose of Mii to be honest.

 

[aldelaro5]

I am not entirely sure, whenever I consider it, that is one of the reasons I find them less likely. Mario Kart 8 gave them the suit and the helmet (which attenuates the design/purpose of the Mii) for the sake of making the game look better. Either Sakurai will port them over and they will look horrendous, or he will conceived a costume that can contribute to their design and add detail. I am more concerned about the counter-intuitive move-set that is antithetical to the purpose of Mii to be honest.

I'm not going to speculate about the moveset but I just tough of something that might be bad for balance:

How do you make a small/light mii evenly balanced to a tall/big mii?

Because here, it's not just skin but it's general stats here. I'm not denying that it can work, I'm just find very questioning how it can be done.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

well news on sceptile got a big atvantage

that's a real picture

so sceptile qualifys now for a mega evo final smash.

Too little, too late though. Smash 3DS will be out before the Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire remakes anyway.

 

[Morbi]

I'm not going to speculate about the moveset but I just tough of something that might be bad for balance:

How do you make a small/light mii evenly balanced to a tall/big mii?

Because here, it's not just skin but it's general stats here. I'm not denying that it can work, I'm just find very questioning how it can be done.

I am certain that we will have set weight classes, so it would not be entirely specific to the Mii (or they would all be up-scaled or down-scaled to the definitive average). Which is again, counter-intuitive. After that, he would balance them in similar ways to Captain Falcon and Ganondorf or Falco and Fox, but he would not have to worry about differentiating the animations.

 

[Zhadgon]

"Ostentatious"? We are done here; I do not appreciate the ad hominem.

Sorry if I insult you (it was not my intention) is more of an advice so people could understand you better with less problems (instead of going to a dictionary english-spanish/other language) most people would not even bother to read or understand your post and they could miss some great insight, still if you want to continue is your life and for me is better because I will improve my understanding and increase my grammar so nothing lost here.

Alright first of all, it's just that personally I do not like fixated height, and I NEVER will when it comes to Mii's.

And your analogy of using Robin and Chrom doesn't make sense. Why? Because the stage has the Fire Emblem logo, which we KNOW the will have. Also, with Find Mii, it actually has Mii in the name. Wouldn't this be part of the Mii franchise? Then it should have the universal logo of Mii's. One that would match the character from the same series. Luigi's Mansion is Luigi's home stage but it has a MARIO icon, not a Luigi one. Why? Because Luigi is part of the Mario franchise, not his own. A game that is focused around a certain character, should have a icon that matches that character.

Maybe you are being a little obtuse about the fixated height? Is only a personal remark and could put bias in your point of view and don´t discern the character as a whole?

But maybe is because Miis are more universal character? I mean they have appeared in Mario Kart and other party games but that should not make them have the Mario Icon, the same can be said about their symbol? They are in so many different games and in so many IP´s that putting one icon to the character could not work? Maybe Sakurai sees them and each game where they appear as their own game, like I said before Saki and Waluigi are prove enough that symbol could not relate directly to character or a stage.

Edited;

Saki doesn't have his own symbol because there is no Sin and Punishment character or stage present in the game. Only series that have characters or stages get icons, and if both are present, they share the icon.

And yes, we don't have a complete list of stages, so there may be other stages that could tie to the Miis. But that doesn't mean that we should completely ignore the one we know about, that should be associated with Miis yet uses a symbol that does not fit the Miis. And of course, none of the evidence here completely de-confirms the Miis. I never made that claim. But I would say it harms their chances. Just because it doesn't de-confirm them doesn't mean you can ignore it and act like it means nothing.

There are three stages associated with Miis:

PilotWings - It has its own symbol so it means its is own series.
Find Mii - It has its own symbol so it means its is own series.
Tomodachi Life - Hasn´t show its symbol yet, makes me wonder maybe this is the home stage for Miis in the 3DS version?

So I think is still up in the air the situation with Miis there are a lot of pros and cons, but if we take into account their Star Power it would seem from my personal view 80-100.

.n_n.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I wonder what would've happened if Sheik wasn't in Melee.

 

[The Light Music Club]

Sorry if I insult you (it was not my intention) is more of an advice so people could understand you better with less problems (instead of going to a dictionary english-spanish/other language) most people would not even bother to read or understand your post and they could miss some great insight, still if you want to continue is your life and for me is better because I will improve my understanding and increase my grammar so nothing lost here.


Maybe you are being a little obtuse then about the fixated height? Is only a personal remark and could put bias in your point of view and don´t discern the character as a whole?

But maybe is because Miis are more universal character? I mean they have appeared in Mario Kart and other party games but that should not make them have the Mario Icon, the same can be said about their symbol? They are in so many different games and in so many IP´s that putting one icon to the character could not work? Maybe Sakurai sees them and each game where they appear as their own game, like I said before Saki and Waluigi are prove enough that symbol could not relate directly to character or a stage.

.n_n.

No of course they wouldn't have a Mario symbol, just like how even though Donkey Kong shows up in Mario games, he reps Donkey Kong Country, and gets his own symbol.

Find Mii is a game specific to Mii's. It should have the same symbol as Mii has if they were playable. I don't see how that doesn't make sense to you. We don't give Mario Kart stages a Racing Flag symbol right? Even though Mario Kart is it's own little spin off? No, because it's part of the Mario franchise. Just like how Find Mii is a specific part of the Mii franchise.



Oh and for all those saying that if Namco it has to be their mascot?

I think a certain guest Namco had in their game says otherwise.

Spoiler

 

[BluePikmin11]

I wonder what would've happened if Sheik wasn't in Melee.

People would be advocating for Tingle.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

If it's so "obvious" then I assume you have great counter-arguments to the points False Sense made in his analysis?

- The Pilot Wings stage, despite featuring Wuhu Island, may not mean much for the Miis being playable, as the Pilot Wings series has existed long before Miis have, and may simply be referencing the latest installment in the series as well as the older ones.

Of course it doesn't. No-one assumed it was a Mii stage the moment it was revealed you start off in the Pilot Wings SNES island and had a Pilot Wings emblem representing it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

- The Miis appear as icons for players in Online mode, representing players and their "Global Smash Power." While not a de-confirmation by any means, this is an instance of Miis appearing in Smash in a role other than that of a playable character.

Because assets being re-used in games are damning evidence, right? Mii's cover a wide range of aspects in every game they're in. I don't find it particularly far fetched that they might use Mii's as a means of judging your Global Smash Power while also being your avatar. This saves development time and resources spent working on other assets to fill that gap.

- One of the Miis biggest titles is Wii Sports, which many fans thought would be an ideal source to pull material from to make a move set for the Miis. However, another character on the roster, the Villager, already uses items like a bowling ball and boxing gloves in his own move set. Now, again, this obviously doesn't de-confirm Miis, as Little Mac was revealed sometime after the Villager, despite both utilizing boxing gloves for their move sets. However, it is something worth noting, especially considering that both the Villager and Miis are avatar characters who (would) use random props and items from their games to make a move set out of.

Boy, I sure do remember that time when people thought Little Mac was deconfirmed because Villager had boxing gloves in his arsenal.

Also, implying that Sakurai wouldn't do what he's done with a bunch of characters already and give them totally unique aspects. I can think of about four or five different things that could be done with Mii's just from the Mii Plaza Games alone. People thinking that inspiration for Mii's as playable characters would only be taken from the sports games is perhaps the biggest and most hilarious fallacy arguing against the Mii's since people insisting Sakurai follows patterns.

Seriously, did everyone forget about Captain Falcon?

- A Mii appears in the cage of the Find Mii stage. As Toon Link has shown us, characters who appear in the background of stages are not necessarily de-confirmed. However, like with the Miis appearing in Online mode, this is an instance of Miis appearing in a role other than that of a playable character. While it's far from a de-confirmation, it is a strike against them.

You pretty much state here that this isn't really damning information against the Mii. In fact, at worst, it's neutral.

Again, the Mii's can be used universally everywhere, and they're probably doing just that to save time and resources. It can:

* Represent you as a playable fighter.
* Represent you as an avatar for your Global Smash Power.
* Represent save files and other aspects of the game involving THE PLAYER specifically.

- The Find Mii stage has a Find Mii crown for its series symbol (here we go...). This is a small but rather interesting detail that could mean a lot for the Miis chances.

SNIP

So, why even bring it up in the section of your argument that you consider 'Damaging Evidence'?

However, the crown symbol makes little to no sense as a symbol for the Miis.

It makes perfect sense. You said so yourself that Mii's and Find Mii are symbolically linked. Guess who the royalty is in the game? Copies of YOUR PRIMARY AVATAR. COPIES OF YOU. The crown is symbolic of YOUR MII and is as good as an icon as any to represent the Mii's besides a generic 'Mii'. Your Mii is the King. You are the King. You're in the game because you're the King. When you're playing as your Mii, it uses your Prince/Princess selves in the cage instead. Simple. Easy. Done. Blammo.

Goodness, I am just flabbergasted here. I'm glad I'm reading this argument and was called out to look at it, holy crap. Almost none of that is what I call 'damaging evidence'. The worst of it is very neutral evidence and absolutely none of it is damaging. Sorry, False Sense, but you flip-flopped a little too much there at the end since you were clearly afraid to earn the ire of either side. Which is fine, but makes for a really flimsy argument.

I'd like to note that I don't even WANT Mii's in the game and I still think they're a realistic and likely choice for characters. I'm not looking at the character with bias or contempt. There's so much going for Mii's and the ease of fitting the character into Smash is just exponentially greater than any other character before it. They can literally program the game to DRAW THE MII ASSETS from the Wii U console it's on (or even the NFC figurines!) and paste it onto a generic character base. Half the work is done there. Program it like any other character to draw inspiration from its various appearances, and done. Move on to the next character.

Honestly, I'll be more surprised if Mii AREN'T announced. The Mii is an impossible to resist goldmine for a developer when nearly half the assets for a completely new, unique character are already easily accessible to them.

 

[Morbi]

No of course they wouldn't have a Mario symbol, just like how even though Donkey Kong shows up in Mario games, he reps Donkey Kong Country, and gets his own symbol.

Find Mii is a game specific to Mii's. It should have the same symbol as Mii has if they were playable. I don't see how that doesn't make sense to you. We don't give Mario Kart stages a Racing Flag symbol right? Even though Mario Kart is it's own little spin off? No, because it's part of the Mario franchise. Just like how Find Mii is a specific part of the Mii franchise.



Oh and for all those saying that if Namco it has to be their mascot?

I think a certain guest Namco had in their game says otherwise.

Spoiler

I was not aware that Mario had a sword!

 

[Xzsmmc]

Being disappointed about a "feature" that generally ruins the experience is much different than being pissy because you didn't get everything you wanted.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. My apologies if I came off as pissy myself.

 

[The Light Music Club]

I was not aware that Mario had a sword!

I'm just saying that the character has to be the best one that fits in. I don't think Pacman would fit in very well to be honest. Mainly because the look that people hate would probably be the one that they choose.

 

[Deleted member]

I wonder what would've happened if Sheik wasn't in Melee.

Then we probably wouldn't have gotten Zelda, and instead, Ganondorf would not have been a clone.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. My apologies if I came off as pissy myself.

Apology accepted.

 

[Weeman]

Boy, I sure do remember that time when people thought Little Mac was deconfirmed because Villager had boxing gloves in his arsenal.

Also, implying that Sakurai wouldn't do what he's done with a bunch of characters already and give them totally unique aspects. I can think of about four or five different things that could be done with Mii's just from the Mii Plaza Games alone. People thinking that inspiration for Mii's as playable characters would only be taken from the sports games is perhaps the biggest and most hilarious fallacy arguing against the Mii's since people insisting Sakurai follows patterns.

Seriously, did everyone forget about Captain Falcon?

Honestly i think the villager it's still a valid point against them, even if they are not limited to wii sports props, they would still be similar characters, happy looking avatar characters that use objects and do silly things for attacks and actions in general.