Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I will throw a party and invite all of Smashboards if Lucas is revealed at E3.

I will just say "eh" and move on of Lucas is cut. Sure I'll miss him, but there will always be another character for me to play, and even then I use other characters more often than Lucas.

I will be happy for all Falco players if he's confirmed, but I probably still won't use him all that much. I dunno why, but I've never liked the way spacies play at all. I just don't understand how to spacie, and I don't care to learn.

And Mother doesn't really need two reps IMO.
Ness represents the kid protagonist with psychic powers that grows up throughout the story.
AKA every Mother protagonist.

Yup, all three of them. Good comparison.
Ness doesn't have basically his entire family killed, and go through a tragic story arc. What? I should have spoiler'd that? Oh come on, Brawl spoils enough as is, you probably knew that already.

 

[Morbi]

I would be fine with that, but I hope they put brawl falco's down B on Fox if that happens

I would not ever stop laughing if they did do that. However; with move-set customization, I am sure it would not be mandatory (unfortunately).

No. I'd like to keep my Falco, thank you very much.

Competitive players have a normal gravitation towards spacies because of their gameplay. Fox in SSBN64 became Falco effectively and spacies ruled. Then, in Brawl, Falco still was pretty good and Fox was mid-tier. It's not just really the top tier characters but it's the playstyle as well which is what some competitive savvy players like about the Star Fox characters.

Agreed. There is no logical reason to cut Falco.

 

[Reila]

Agreed. There is no logical reason to cut Falco.

Yeah... Besides the fact there is no need for three Star Fox reps in Smash and that Wolf is far more valuable than Falco, so he is the only logical cut.

Again, just saying, I don't think he will be cut.

 

[Deleted member]

Agreed. There is no logical reason to cut Falco.

There may be no logical reason to cut him, but this IS Sakurai...

To be fair, I honestly hope for no cuts outside of Ivysaur and Squirtle. I may be in the minority, but I think Brawl's roster is pretty much perfect.

 

[praline]

Pretty sure either Wolf gets cut or neither do.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah... Besides the fact there is no need for three Star Fox reps in Smash and that Wolf is far more valuable than Falco, so he is the only logical cut.

Again, just saying, I don't think he will be cut.

That is not a logical reason, that is a subjective reason. One that is antithetical to the intent of the creative director, I might add. The only logical cuts were Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and Ice Climbers. The rest of the cuts are all opinionated.

 

[ACDC]

Falco is fine, but like Ganondorf he needs to be completely different from brawl

 

[praline]

Falco is fine, but like Ganondorf he needs to be completely different from brawl

With Sakurai giving vets new moves I wouldn't be surprised if Ganondorf and Falco had new moves.

 

[Morbi]

Falco is fine, but like Ganondorf he needs to be completely different from brawl

I would not assert that he needs to be completely different. They just need to further differentiate him. I feel as though three to six moves would suffice. He is already quite different in Brawl (compared to his Melee incarnation).

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

It's kinda odd that Wolf is the one people think deserves the ax when he has more diversity in cribbing moves than Falco does.

Okay, yes there was that Landmaster debacle, but Falco ain't exactly scot-free from that either.

 

[Reila]

That is not a logical reason, that is a subjective reason. One that is antithetical to the intent of the creative director, I might add. The only logical cuts were Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and Ice Climbers. The rest of the cuts are all opinionated.

How is it not a logical reason? A dead and not-so-popular franchise have too many reps, so should the developer team decide to cut a character from Smash, it would be only logical that said character would be from Star Fox. Who is the less important and unique character from Star Fox in Smash? Exactly, Falco.

Pretty sure either Wolf gets cut or neither do.

Which is a damn shame, because Wolf is more interesting than Falco in basically every aspect.

 

[Rockaphin]

Agreed. There is no logical reason to cut Falco.

I think time constraints would be a logical reason. For example, Falco is low priority due to him not being as unique as others. However, this could be smashed with the presence of Toon Link.

 

[praline]

I would not assert that he needs to be completely different. They just need to further differentiate him. I feel as though three to six moves would suffice. He is already quite different in Brawl (compared to his Melee incarnation).

Honestly the only special of Ganondorf that i feel should stay is the warlock fist.

 

[jweb22]

That is not a logical reason, that is a subjective reason. One that is antithetical to the intent of the creative director, I might add. The only logical cuts were Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and Ice Climbers. The rest of the cuts are all opinionated.

Whoa whoa whoa...the Ice Climbers won't be cut and it would now be illogical to cut them as we have Rosalina and Luma to show that the dev team must have found a way to include duo characters. I know Luma acts different than Nana but Luma must still have a damage counter on it as we've seen that it can be destroyed, but then again I'm not a programmer so my knowledge of how the programming works is limited.

 

[ACDC]

I think what hurts wolf as well as what we already mentioned is that he's terribly ugly compared to Falco. But I'd still rather have him in than Falco

 

[Morbi]

How is it not a logical reason? A dead and not-so-popular franchise have too many reps, so should the developer team decide to cut a character from Smash, it would be only logical that said character would be from Star Fox. Who is the less important and unique character from Star Fox in Smash? Exactly, Falco.

Which is a damn shame, because Wolf is more interesting than Falco in basically every aspect.

I would hate to say it, as an adamant Wolf fan and Falco "hater" but Falco is clearly more unique if we are speaking in regards to the Star Fox franchise. In fact, that is the only reason Falco was selected over Wolf during Melee. However, if you are alluding to Smash, I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.

If you cannot discern that "the franchise should not have as many representatives" is an opinion, I have nothing further to add. It is a subjective notion. Logical reasons are based on the development of the game. Pokemon Trainer, arguably one of the most prominent Pokemon characters and certainly one of the most unique was omitted. Why? Technical reasons. The move-set is irrelevant as they can alter it (as he has done in EVERY iteration of Smash).

 

[Reila]

I will miss Wolf's taunts if he is cut from Smash. What is the matter, scared?

 

[Second Power]

When going by sales, amount of games, and comparing them to other series in smash, Star Fox should only have two characters and Mother one. However, Star Fox had three character in Brawl and Mother two. Despite the fact that there might've been better additions, they happened, and there's little reason to cut them.

 

[AncientTobacco]

When going by sales, amount of games, and comparing them to other series in smash, Star Fox should only have two characters and Mother one. However, Star Fox had three character in Brawl and Mother two. Despite the fact that there might've been better additions, they happened, and there's little reason to cut them.

If you go by sales and amount of games alone, the roster would pretty much just be Mario and Pokemon.

 

[Morbi]

Honestly the only special of Ganondorf that i feel should stay is the warlock fist.

I feel the opposite, that is quite literally the only special that should leave; but then again, I main him. So it is I who must endure that horrible aspect of his move-set.

Whoa whoa whoa...the Ice Climbers won't be cut and it would now be illogical to cut them as we have Rosalina and Luma to show that the dev team must have found a way to include duo characters. I know Luma acts different than Nana but Luma must still have a damage counter on it as we've seen that it can be destroyed, but then again I'm not a programmer so my knowledge of how the programming works is limited.

Please, indicate where I insinuated anything to that effect. I suppose you did not read my post. I did not assert anything to that effect. I was merely stating the obvious, they would be justifiable cuts under the premonition that they were unable to work. It pertains to development as opposed to something that is subjective.

TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR: I DO NOT BELIEVE THE ICE CLIMBERS WILL BE CUT. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS SAYING. OKAY?

 

[jweb22]

I feel the opposite, that is quite literally the only special that should leave; but then again, I main him. So it is I who must endure that horrible aspect of his move-set.


Please, indicate where I insinuated anything to that effect. I suppose you did not read my post. I did not assert anything to that effect. I was merely stating the obvious, they would be justifiable cuts under the premonition that they were unable to work. It pertains to development as opposed to something that is subjective.

TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR: I DO NOT BELIEVE THE ICE CLIMBERS WILL BE CUT. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I WAS SAYING. OKAY?

Oh no I read your post. You said, "The only logical cuts were Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and Ice Climbers."

The reason for my post was to state that it is ILLOGICAL to think the Ice Climbers could be cut as Rosalina and Luma got rid of the thought that duo characters were still causing problems for the 3DS. Also the fact that you used "were" makes it past tense as if they had already been cut. Just saying.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

@ ACDC Mewtwo is most certainly unlikely, but Pac-Man?
@ Morbi so you're leaving?

 

[Reila]

@ Morbi why so serious

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

No love for Falcondorf's Flame Choke? If anything, that was arguably one of Dorf's most useful Specials.

 

[ACDC]

@ Morbi why so serious

Cause he's Batman

 

[Glyphoscythe]

One of Wolf's taunts should be "Can't let you do that, _____!" The blank space changing depending on who he's fighting.

Gut feeling tells me all of the space fuzzies are staying.

 

[Baskerville]

How about making Falco's F-Air and Down B actually useful again.

 

[Croph]

Gosh, the Mother fanbase would go nuts if Lucas or Ness is cut. Same thing with the Star Fox fanbase if Falco or Wolf is cut. The only characters that I think are expendable are R.O.B. and Jiggs (though, she can be an easy addition + has some recent factors going for her), assuming Ivysaur and Squirtle are cut. And there's Snake, which is logical... but I'm going to wait on him.

Not that I'm really expecting ROB and Jiggs be cut, I just think ROB in particular would have less backlash versus anyone else if cut (and he does need some fixing up).

I really wish they would just make ROB canon to the Mario universe. Throw him in some games. Like, maybe have a story where E. Gadd invents ROB (ha! let's retcon ROB!) or some other BS story. After Baby Rosalina, anythings possible, so it seems.

Worst case scenario, if, for some reason, they're having trouble with the ICs, then I suppose SoPo and SoNa will officially happen. In other words, cut the duo gimmick they have, and have Popo and Nana fight separately (just costume switch for them). But, we will lose the novelty that they have, and it is a big change (though the Special/Standard moves could remain the same, just some buffed, like the recovery for example). I don't really see this happening though, with Rosaluma and Olimar already here.

 

[Morbi]

Oh no I read your post. You said, "The only logical cuts were Pokemon Trainer, Snake, and Ice Climbers."

The reason for my post was to state that it is ILLOGICAL to think the Ice Climbers could be cut as Rosalina and Luma got rid of the thought that duo characters were still causing problems for the 3DS. Also the fact that you used "were" makes it past tense as if they had already been cut. Just saying.

I see where this conversation is going; here, while I go find the source that objectively asserts that the Ice Climbers were causing problems in development, making an omission inherently justifiable, you find me a source that proves that Rosalina and Ice Climbers are coded the exact same way. You have the burden of proof, good sir. I am not going to hold my breath, by the way. Do not feel obligated to actually support your argument.

I was speaking in past tense, you are correct. Congratulations on identifying such. Those were the only logical cuts, those are the only logical cuts, and those will always be the only logical cuts.

 

[praline]

Falco's down special was useful you just needed to time it.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I expect either ninten or krystal before getting these cuts

 

[Second Power]

If you go by sales and amount of games alone, the roster would pretty much just be Mario and Pokemon.

I see it less as those qualities translating into a literal number and more on deciding the range in which it falls in priority for reps.

 

[Morbi]

@ Morbi why so serious

Because every time I assert that the Ice Climbers are a plausible omission, some incompetent user claims that I stated they would be cut or that it is unreasonable. I do not appreciate it when those individuals question my logic without providing anything relevant other than, "OMGZ IcEe Climbaz aint cut form gam."

@ ACDC Mewtwo is most certainly unlikely, but Pac-Man?
@ Morbi so you're leaving?

No; I intend on staying, thank you very much.

 

[ACDC]

It's not about who has the biggest **** and can sell more games, it's more about what game has characters that could be interesting to play with and who can add diversity. Also who can be used as publicity in some cases like Roy/Marth and Pit

 

[praline]

Well I'm gonna leave this forum if Toucan Sam isn't playable!

 

[jweb22]

I see where this conversation is going; here, while I go find the source that objectively asserts that the Ice Climbers were causing problems in development, making an omission inherently justifiable, you find me a source that proves that Rosalina and Ice Climbers are coded the exact same way. You have the burden of proof, good sir. I am not going to hold my breath, by the way. Do not feel obligated to actually support your argument.

I was speaking in past tense, you are correct. Congratulations on identifying such. Those were the only logical cuts, those are the only logical cuts, and those will always be the only logical cuts.

Trust me, I'm not trying to start an argument or conversation as you put it.

You accused me of not reading your comment properly so I explained my point. I also talked about how the development team was having problems at first with the Ice Climbers but Rosalina and Luma proved that the 3DS can handle duo characters. I assume you didn't read that part of my post.

I also said I'm not a programmer so my knowledge of how similar the IC's programming would be to Rosalina and Luma is very limited so I can only go by them both being duo characters and that both Nana and Luma have damage counters too.

That's all I'm saying. I have no idea why you are getting so worked up.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

So then you were just kidding about leaving if Ridley was not confirmed?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd certainly say that excluding Ridley and King K. Rool (especially if we get no DK newcomers) is worthy of criticism. While I can understand Ridley's exclusion (due to being very difficult to develop), I literally see no good reasons to exclude K. Rool out of the playable roster other than "muh bias" from Sakurai. If we don't see a Donkey Kong newcomer, I'm not just going to say "It's Sakurai's will"; I am going to give criticism regarding it because I don't see any good justification for it.

Also I would personally be disappointed if Sal's newcomers were all that we were getting for this game. As Super Smash Bros. is about playing as our favorite characters, I had a highly reasonable expectations that I would get at least one out of the 20+ Nintendo newcomers I did want to see in the game and while some were impossible (like Deoxys and Ray), others like a DK newcomer I had very strong reasons to expect. My prerequisite for buying a Smash game is that at least one newcomer (meaning not Mewtwo) I want must be in. While characters like Palutena, Shulk, and Mii are solid choices, I really don't care for anyone in the Gematsu leak outside of a game play perspective (which only came after their confirmation/showing up on the leak, not before). Thankfully, at least my most wanted character (Mega Man) proved to be an exception and considering how the newcomers turned out (hypothetically speaking), I consider Mega Man to be literally a miracle.

tl;dr: I'll probably get over it soon, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't be salty if K. Rool and Ridley failed to become playable. Then again, I set up a very high (although not unreasonable) expectations with the roster (as I did with the rest of this game). I just hate being pessimistic about anything Smash-related, considering that there's few other things in this world worth being optimistic about.

Because long story short, the absence of specific popular characters is not excused by the presence of specific other popular characters, especially when the absent ones are so comparatively massive. They shouldn't be looked at as though they're filling some form of quota...that would be like hypothetically saying, "Oh, you didn't get Diddy and Dedede in Brawl, but look, there's Sonic, Olimar, Pit, and Wario...why are you complaining??"

I agree with you both. My point simply was that it's not entirely accurate that we didn't get anybody we asked for.

Ridley I heavily doubt. K.Rool I have some hope for, and I don't blame anybody for being upset at them missing out.

 

[TumblrFamous]

The stupidity is strong with this thread.

 

[Morbi]

So then you were just kidding about leaving if Ridley was not confirmed?

No, I was not kidding. However, Ridley is going to be in the game, so I do not have to worry about leaving.

Trust me, I'm not trying to start an argument or conversation as you put it.

You accused me of not reading your comment properly so I explained my point. I also talked about how the development team was having problems at first with the Ice Climbers but Rosalina and Luma proved that the 3DS can handle duo characters. I assume you didn't read that part of my post.

I also said I'm not a programmer so my knowledge of how similar the IC's programming would be to Rosalina and Luma is very limited so I can only go by them both being duo characters and that both Nana and Luma have damage counters too.

That's all I'm saying. I have no idea why you are getting so worked up.

I never stated that you were trying to start an argument. I apologize, this happens a lot and it is quite irritating. By the gods, I do not believe that Ice Climbers will be cut, I am merely asserting that they have an objective reason to be cut (as opposed to subjective, which is reminiscent of: this series does not deserve it, he plays similarly, I do not like him).

I did read that part of the post. PROVIDE.ME.WITH.A.SOURCE.

Ah, there is the disclaimer I was waiting for! So there is nothing to prove that the Ice Climbers and Rosalina are coded the same way, correct? Therefore, your assertion was baseless. Which is what I was getting at this entire time. That is all, good sir. I am not necessarily worked up, you just threw me into "debate mode."