Character Discussion Thread

[Pazzo.]

...I include the ports, but that's just me.

Which added on means K. Rool is the primary antagonist of 13 DK games. (DKC GBC was a thing.)

K. Rool is very obviously the main villain of the DK franchise... I can only hope Retro jumps on the bandwagon and puts K. Rool and the Kremlings in the third DKCR game.

 

[BKupa666]

EDIT: Best comparison I can give.
Diddy Kong.

The last "major" DK game that Diddy was in was DK 64 prior to Brawl.
Jungle Beat, the closest thing to a "major" title since 64, featured no pre-existing character other than Donkey Kong himself.
Diddy was left to just spin-off roles.

Yet he was in Brawl.

Just jumping in to make a minor correction: Jungle Beat featured no pre-existing characters other than Donkey Kong...and The Banana.

The Banana is muhrelevant and no other characters hits you with potassium, let's add it in!

SO UNIQUE/10

 

[aldelaro5]

No, I'm implying that if people are going to whine about Dr. Mario being a clone, then change him to better reflect the Dr. Mario franchise as opposed to making **** up (i.e. "Super Sheet") solely to be a clone.

Aside from the personal bias towards the Paper Mario franchise (which I'm not criticizing; I have a personal bias towards the Dr. Mario franchise), the whole "clone" thing is why people even mention Paper Mario in positive light; because they feel he can (can being the operative word) be unique. Well, Dr. Mario can also be unique if he was more "Dr. Mario" than "Dr. Mario in Super Mario Bros. style".

At the same time, Paper Mario can just as easily be "Paper Mario in Super Mario Bros. style" too.
It really just comes down to who you like more. I personally prefer Doc.

Ok I think I need to solve an issue that I have with dr mario that you should be able to answer.

As @ Spinosaurus roughly explained, a character would need to have a little something that reflects the whole way on how to play as the character. Smash is clearly following this philosophy and even Kirby air ride does. If you look at the "roster" of vehicle, you would notice that every vehicle has a sentence that describes how to control it. They are very different each other which makes the "roster" diverse and each vehicle unique. Since we know that ssbb and now ssb4 is getting influenced by this game, I think it would be fair to say that smash revolves around a similar principal but adapted to smash.

This leads me to my issue: I don't know (most likely being not acknowledged enough) how you could do this with dr mario. You would need to have a "signature" or play style that would feel natural for him so that it would translate pretty well. But, I don't know if not only you could find one which I think it's possible but to push this trhought a whole character? I'm doubtful. Even C falcon had one and was pushed enough to give a complete character but dr mario? I would need to hear your thoughts on this. I don't care how it should be done but if it COULD be done. Because frankly, I wonder if you can push it further than toon link.

 

[Maxilian]

IMO Dr Mario should be nothing more than a skin for Mario

 

[Bowserlick]

If there is going to be another Mario, Paper Mario over the Doc.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I changed my mind about Dr. Mario being a costume. I actually agree with once a Smasher always a Smasher. In it's place, I would really like to see Tanooki Mario as a costume.

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

I changed my mind about Dr. Mario being a costume. I actually agree with once a Smasher always a Smasher. In it's place, I would really like to see Tanooki Mario as a costume.

The Tanooki leaf is an item, yes?

 

[Spazzy_D]

I changed my mind about Dr. Mario being a costume. I actually agree with once a Smasher always a Smasher. In it's place, I would really like to see Tanooki Mario as a costume.

Wouldn't it be weird when he got the actual Tanooki Leaf item though?

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

As much as I love the Mario franchise, I believe it has enough playable, awesome characters in smash. There are other series that should be given a spot like Shulk or Palutena instead, imo.

 

[FalKoopa]

The Tanooki leaf is an item, yes?

The Tanooki Suit is a whole body suit, not just the Racoon ears and tails which the leaf gives.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

The Tanooki leaf is an item, yes?

Whoops. Totally forgot xD

 

[NickerBocker]

IMO Dr Mario should be nothing more than a skin for Mario

This is how I feel about it, although I wouldnt mind another slot for him.

Its just that he was put into Melee, a game in which 6 clones were added to make the roster larger in the place of adding one original character, being Dedede. He was added to buff up the roster along with Falco, Ganondorf, Young Link, Roy and Pichu. Now some of these characters have more than earned their spot (Falco and Ganondorf) and have been further decloned. Dr Mario, however, is just Mario with a PhD and a doctors coat, theres pretty much no difference. Could he have a decloned moveset? Sure, the n he should have his own slot. Until I see that, I dont think he will be his own slot, there just isnt enough of a reason to have one.

Also, if costumes are a thing (which they seem to be) then Dr Mario is the perfect candidate for an alt costume for Mario if they dont get around to adjusting his moveset, whuch IMO, is much better than nothing.

I understand the whole "once a smasher always a smasher" but he was conceived in a time where making the roster larger was a priority. Now its a little different, there is a clear focus on uniqueness. It wouldnt make sense for him to return as a clone, but if has a changed moveset, by all means he should return (I prefer Paper Mario though.) If he remains clone status, the alt costume idea is perfect for him.

 

[Baskerville]

"Once a smasher always a smasher" sounds so cheesy.

 

[aldelaro5]

As much as I love the Mario franchise, I believe it has enough playable, awesome characters in smash. There are other series that should be given a spot like Shulk or Palutena instead, imo.

Tbh, it's true but it has to do with how many characters they have the time to do. It's clear for me that any other mario characters should go after palutena shulk or ridley but if Sakurai has enough time, then it could happen but it will be tight imo.

I still need someone (preferably a supporter of dr mario) to answer to my quote above. It's really something that was bothering me for a while.

Also, let this be clear: it makes absolutely no sense for Paper Mario to feel like Mario even as a semi clone. I said in my post above that the play style has to fit the character of feel natural for him. If he doesn't feel like Mario, then it has to be different than the one with Mario (I can tell you what it would be but this is going a bit too far).

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree. Ike is a veteran who has a unique moveset and thus is an established Smash character, so there is no reason to cut him. On the other hand I don't see any reason to add a character from a very popular franchise who hasn't appeared in a while especially when the series started going really strong AFTER said appearance.

There's really no character that you can compare K.Rool with. He's SUCH a unique and weird case to try and argue using comparisons.

Because King K. Rool is still the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong franchise. If recency was going to prevent K. Rool's appearance, we wouldn't have seen the Kremlings in Smash Run. The fact that Kremlings are in Smash Run shows that Sakurai acknowledge them and as such, would definitely acknowledge King K. Rool.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Because King K. Rool is still the main antagonist of the Donkey Kong franchise. If recency was going to prevent K. Rool's appearance, we wouldn't have seen the Kremlings in Smash Run. The fact that Kremlings are in Smash Run shows that Sakurai acknowledge them and as such, would definitely acknowledge King K. Rool.

They're enemies, it's not a position as significant as a playable character and I don't think it means anything. Obviously Sakurai isn't forgetting about K.Rool, the question is whether he thinks he warrants a playable slot or not. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm going with him thinking he doesn't, for reasons I already stated.

Look, I'd be happy to eat crow. But until I know for sure he's in (which would surprise me, no lie), I'm standing with what I believe in.


Anyway, moving away from the K.Rool talk, I actually just asked my little brother who he wanted in Smash. He said:
-Bowser Jr.
-Chrom
-Lord Frederik (don't god damn bring it up, it's not my intention)

I asked my little sister, and well
She said Pink Gold Peach. Huge Mario Kart mood obviously.

They're both Smash fans in the way that they play these games. (My bro does follow Smash 4 though) Just interesting to see what kids like.

 

[Deleted member]

Just jumping in to make a minor correction: Jungle Beat featured no pre-existing characters other than Donkey Kong...and The Banana.

The Banana is muhrelevant and no other characters hits you with potassium, let's add it in!

SO UNIQUE/10

How could I have been so foolish....

...all praise be to The Banana!

Ok I think I need to solve an issue that I have with dr mario that you should be able to answer.

As @ Spinosaurus roughly explained, a character would need to have a little something that reflects the whole way on how to play as the character. Smash is clearly following this philosophy and even Kirby air ride does. If you look at the "roster" of vehicle, you would notice that every vehicle has a sentence that describes how to control it. They are very different each other which makes the "roster" diverse and each vehicle unique. Since we know that ssbb and now ssb4 is getting influenced by this game, I think it would be fair to say that smash revolves around a similar principal but adapted to smash.

This leads me to my issue: I don't know (most likely being not acknowledged enough) how you could do this with dr mario. You would need to have a "signature" or play style that would feel natural for him so that it would translate pretty well. But, I don't know if not only you could find one which I think it's possible but to push this trhought a whole character? I'm doubtful. Even C falcon had one and was pushed enough to give a complete character but dr mario? I would need to hear your thoughts on this. I don't care how it should be done but if it COULD be done. Because frankly, I wonder if you can push it further than toon link.

Simple; take what Dr. Mario (the series) is. It's a puzzle game. With that in mind, Dr. Mario could be given a play style that focuses heavily on thinking three steps ahead. Perhaps (to fit the Doctor motif), he has a move that causes a status ailment, when can be set up into another attack for a clean strike, or being Dr. Mario, he can cure said ailment (though at the cost of some damage; on the opponent, not him), for example.
Or given that, again, he's a doctor, there's always exaggerating this Trope....
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyDoctor
Rather than just BRIGHTLY COLORED PILLS, why not include "sleepy shots" (or anesthesia if syringes are too controversial), the Defibrillator side smash attack with real defibrillators, a comically oversized reflex hammer, a stereotypical ice-cold stethoscope (which he does carry), a giant sphygmomanometer (blood pressure meter), a tuning fork, etc.
Just nothing like scalpels or bone saws since that might be pushing too much away from the light-hearted image.

Heck, the two ideas could even be mixed.

 

[Cobalsh]

How could I have been so foolish....

...all praise be to The Banana!

Simple; take what Dr. Mario (the series) is. It's a puzzle game. With that in mind, Dr. Mario could be given a play style that focuses heavily on thinking three steps ahead. Perhaps (to fit the Doctor motif), he has a move that causes a status ailment, when can be set up into another attack for a clean strike, or being Dr. Mario, he can cure said ailment (though at the cost of some damage; on the opponent, not him), for example.
Or given that, again, he's a doctor, there's always exaggerating this Trope....
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyDoctor
Rather than just BRIGHTLY COLORED PILLS, why not include "sleepy shots" (or anesthesia if syringes are too controversial), the Defibrillator side smash attack with real defibrillators, a comically oversized reflex hammer, a stereotypical ice-cold stethoscope (which he does carry), a giant sphygmomanometer (blood pressure meter), a tuning fork, etc.
Just nothing like scalpels or bone saws since that might be pushing too much away from the light-hearted image.

Heck, the two ideas could even be mixed.

Dr. Mario!

Hits With Surgical Precision!

 

[aldelaro5]

Simple; take what Dr. Mario (the series) is. It's a puzzle game. With that in mind, Dr. Mario could be given a play style that focuses heavily on thinking three steps ahead. Perhaps (to fit the Doctor motif), he has a move that causes a status ailment, when can be set up into another attack for a clean strike, or being Dr. Mario, he can cure said ailment (though at the cost of some damage; on the opponent, not him), for example.
Or given that, again, he's a doctor, there's always exaggerating this Trope....
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeadlyDoctor
Rather than just BRIGHTLY COLORED PILLS, why not include "sleepy shots" (or anesthesia if syringes are too controversial), the Defibrillator side smash attack with real defibrillators, a comically oversized reflex hammer, a stereotypical ice-cold stethoscope (which he does carry), a giant sphygmomanometer (blood pressure meter), a tuning fork, etc.
Just nothing like scalpels or bone saws since that might be pushing too much away from the light-hearted image.

Heck, the two ideas could even be mixed.

Huh… it might just be me but I'm more doubtful (since you explained it to me, I now know why thanks for your answer btw).

The first part when you talk about the puzzle game and the aliment potential, that's a good starting point that feels good for him and you pointed out an example of unique potential which is what I asked.

But when you talk about the doctor tool, sorry but this makes me doubtful. The reason why is that even if it COULD happen, it's just seems "out of the way" if I take the playstyle you mentioned before which was thinking before acting. The status part when you have to do a sort of setup reflects that but after? Could you go beyond the special moves? This is what makes me doubtful because it just seems that you have "searched too much" to complete the idea because how does using a defibrilator for instance reflect your original playstyle? The playstyle has to be a general idea of how he would play not just reserved to some moves (it's even the case for C falcon when his aerial are very quick). I know he's a doctor but IMO, the fact that it's a puzzle game is more used than the fact that he's a doctor in his game. What would clear me any doubts would be to only see him in ssb with the feel of being unique and still keep consistent on his playstyle. That's unfortunate but I don't deny the possibility of this happening. I just wonder if you can be consistent and go beyond the semi clone (because, if his playstyle is based around the one of mario, I agree that you can modify it so that it feels generally the same but modified enough to go further than toon link which I think, should have been modified more).

I'm not saying that I don't like him because Sakurai can surprise me but I'm just "perplex" on his inclusion so consider that I'm neutral.

 

[Deleted member]

You mention Captain Falcon, but it's strange that you haven't made the connection that since Sakurai's made a Kamen Rider-esque style for Falcon out of the blue (which totally conflicts with his in-game portrayal in the F-Zero franchise where he's stoic and lets racing do the talking as opposed to punching someone in the face with a bird-shaped flame), he could easily make a combat medic style for Doc if he so chose.

At least then, it would make more sense to do such a thing than what he did for Falcon (but hey, I'm not complaining; Falcon is awesome in Smash) considering Dr. Mario is well...a doctor, and Falcon isn't a tokusatsu superhero.

Though if we're talking strictly material from the Dr. Mario franchise, there's always virus jars he can use to infect opponents with (such a concept can be chained to Megavitamins causing more damage/knockback if at least one end is the same color as the Virus that's ailing the opponent while curing them), and, a concept that initially though about for Doc when I first saw him on the Melee website years ago (the US one) that he'd actually hit people with giant pills as melee weapons, not just throw them. (The little mini-clip had Doc bounce a Megavitamin against a wall to have it bounce and hit the opponent behind him while kicking them, making it look like he grabbed a Megavitamin and backhanded them with it in my 10-year old eyes)

In a way, this can help change up some of the standard attacks (though my medical instrument concept was directed at that anyway), though can help keep him somewhat similar to Mario while still being visibly different.

There's also half-Megavitamins (which I just refer to as "Megatablets") which are used as means to "attack" opponents in multiplayer mode when you score combos and impede virus-busting progress for them.

(Player 2's screen has an example)

Not for standard attacks, but if we're not going the medical instruments route (which I mainly was using in support of standard moves and in the case of the blood pressure meter, grabs), using these as means of combat are also viable, though it may be difficult to separate the function as compared to the standard Megavitamin toss.
I did come up with an idea, though inspired by the New Super Mario Bros. games, in that Dr. Mario can copy Fire/Ice/Gold/etc. Mario's Spin Jump technique and toss two "Megatablets" to the sides of him like they do Fireballs/Iceballs/Gold Fireballs, etc. that isn't present in Smash for either Mario or Luigi.

Dr. Luigi also came up with some things;

namely the L-Vitamins for a wider projectile range, or for melee combat purposes (like my earlier idea; in fact, the L-Vitamins would be better for that than the standard pills) and the randomizer (what multiplayer combos do to the opponent in Dr. Luigi; instead of dropping "Megatablets", their next L-Vitamin randomly shifts colors to change their strategies) which would be difficult to incorporate into Smash unless it instead randomizes controls temporarily, a currently unseen function in Smash.

And though the Super Mario-Kun manga is not canon to the Mario franchise, when Mario was randomly turned into Dr. Mario in one comic, he was able to use a Koopa Shell attached with Megavitamin-shaped rocket boosters. That however.....probably should be ignored.

The stethoscope idea is still viable, though.

After finals are over, I'll stop being lazy and finish up a full moveset for Doc that is semi-cloned (since I don't see any real reason to completely de-clone him) and we'll see how that goes.

 

[aldelaro5]

You mention Captain Falcon, but it's strange that you haven't made the connection that since Sakurai's made a Kamen Rider-esque style for Falcon out of the blue (which totally conflicts with his in-game portrayal in the F-Zero franchise where he's stoic and lets racing do the talking as opposed to punching someone in the face with a bird-shaped flame), he could easily make a combat medic style for Doc if he so chose.

Though if we're talking strictly material from the Dr. Mario franchise, there's always virus jars he can use to infect opponents with (such a concept can be chained to Megavitamins causing more damage/knockback if at least one end is the same color as the Virus that's ailing the opponent while curing them), and, a concept that initially though about for Doc when I first saw him on the Melee website years ago (the US one) that he'd actually hit people with giant pills as melee weapons, not just throw them. (The little mini-clip had Doc bounce a Megavitamin against a wall to have it bounce and hit the opponent behind him while kicking them, making it look like he grabbed a Megavitamin and backhanded them with it in my 10-year old eyes)

In a way, this can help change up some of the standard attacks (though my medical instrument concept was directed at that anyway), though can help keep him somewhat similar to Mario while still being visibly different.

There's also half-Megavitamins (which I just refer to as "Megatablets") which are used as means to "attack" opponents in multiplayer mode when you score combos and impede virus-busting progress for them.

(Player 2's screen has an example)

Not for standard attacks, but if we're not going the medical instruments route (which I mainly was using in support of standard moves and in the case of the blood pressure meter, grabs), using these as means of combat are also viable, though it may be difficult to separate the function as compared to the standard Megavitamin toss.
I did come up with an idea, though inspired by the New Super Mario Bros. games, in that Dr. Mario can copy Fire/Ice/Gold/etc. Mario's Spin Jump technique and toss two "Megatablets" to the sides of him like they do Fireballs/Iceballs/Gold Fireballs, etc. that isn't present in Smash for either Mario or Luigi.

Dr. Luigi also came up with some things;

namely the L-Vitamins for a wider projectile range, or for melee combat purposes (like my earlier idea; in fact, the L-Vitamins would be better for that than the standard pills) and the randomizer (what multiplayer combos do to the opponent in Dr. Luigi; instead of dropping "Megatablets", their next L-Vitamin randomly shifts colors to change their strategies) which would be difficult to incorporate into Smash unless it instead randomizes controls temporarily, a currently unseen function in Smash.

And though the Super Mario-Kun manga is not canon to the Mario franchise, when Mario was randomly turned into Dr. Mario in one comic, he was able to use a Koopa Shell attached with Megavitamin-shaped rocket boosters. That however.....probably should be ignored.

The stethoscope idea is still viable, though.

After finals are over, I'll stop being lazy and finish up a full moveset for Doc that is semi-cloned (since I don't see any real reason to completely de-clone him) and we'll see how that goes.

For falcon, it's really just translation (how could it be ok in his car and fight?). For example, the flames represent him knocking his opponent by bumping into the other cars and explodes them. It's searched but it's stay somewhat true to his game and playstyle just represented differently.

As for Doc mario, well, I think he could be fine with most of what you said but as you said, those aren't reason for a complete declone but I'll agree that it could a nice semi clone that goes further than toon link which is good enough for me. Since I don't really love/hate semi clone, I'm still neutral but now, I agree that he could be good as that.

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it takes more than just bumping into a car to make it explode. But in any case, I see how Falcon's moves can be inspired by actions performed in the vehicle, but at the same time, they don't translate into "Rider Punch/Kick rip-off" or latching onto people and bouncing off them in an explosion.

That's where it's less "Blue Falcon personified" and more "Kamen Rider inspired".
But I digress...

 

[Bowserlick]

I think Mallo from Pushmo would be the best puzzle game representative.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

A certain gentleman who made a gun from a slot machine could be a great character who could actually use a puzzle for his Final Smash. But he's third-party, so...

For Nintendo characters, I'd say either Lip or Hakkun. Maybe Mallo as well.

-----

 

[Deleted member]

*inb4rabidlipfans*

I don't want to be here for this....

 

[Morbi]

I am going to assert that Muddy Mole is the most ideal puzzle game character, I would want him over the other characters mentioned (aside from Dr. Mario, of course).

 

[Bowserlick]

Mallo can form a fortress of blocks to navigate as his Up B. A block to stand on. A block directly in front of him. A block a few spaces diagonal behind and above him. He does not get another Up B if hit, until he touches the stage.

Side B as mentioned in a proposed moveset can allow him to push or pull enemies or blocks.

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, what if....Toad was playable....

....but it was this Toad?

Spoiler

Best idea ever.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Guys, what if....Toad was playable....

....but it was this Toad?

Spoiler

Best idea ever.

Yeah... no.

 

[Sobreviviente]

I read hakkun on the comments, im happy :B

But yeah, mallo or dr mario to me.

 

[Deleted member]

Come on, you know you want some Super Mario Bros. Movie representation.

 

[Substitution]

Guys, what if....Toad was playable....

....but it was this Toad?

Spoiler

Best idea ever.

Main 1st day.

 

[Bowserlick]

If we are going to pull a character from that source, there is clearly only one option.

Spoiler

BIG BERTHA

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Come on, you know you want some Super Mario Bros. Movie representation.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[aldelaro5]

Well, I agree that a "puzzle" character could be good, the only one that I know enough and appeal to me would be mallo but even if he's unique in itself, doing a moveset for him should be "interesting" (I really wonder what he would do if included). Not to mention that just the idea of attacking by pushing blocks sounds funny to me.

 

[Deleted member]

If we are going to pull a character from that source, there is clearly only one option.

Spoiler

BIG BERTHA

....you win.
I can't argue against that.

 

[Pega-pony Princess]

Guys, what if....Toad was playable....

....but it was this Toad?

Spoiler

Best idea ever.

A face only a mother could love

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A face only a mother could love

Mamma Luigi?

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

If we are going to pull a character from that source, there is clearly only one option.

Spoiler

BIG BERTHA

Best part of the movie.

 

[Bowserlick]

Mallo
B: Flutters around with his hands. Can move through the air.
Down B: Does a stomp on the ground and two blocks pop up from the floor on either side of him. Only three blocks allowed on stage per Mallo
Up B: A 3D fortress appears behind Mallo with three blocklike platforms jutting into the stage dimension for Mallo to navigate
Side B: Pushes or Pulls blocks or enemies