Character Discussion Thread

[Pazzo.]

That's because Pikachu is the mascot of Pokemon. He wouldn't get cut anyway, but everyone would want him back because it wouldn't feel right without him.

If you ask a bunch of Pokemon fans who they like better, Mewtwo will probably win over.

That depends on where you live. But still, Mewtwo and Pikachu are the two most popular, if only for nostalgia's sake.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I sincerely doubt Sakurai will add a character from a series just because he looked at the roster and said "you know, this series NEEDS another character!" because...why?

New series first. Zelda is fine. DK is fine. F-Zero is fine.

I think a common misconception here is that the roster is based off popularity, rather than as a celebration of Nintendo's history. Diversity is more important, and it's why we're getting characters like Ice Climbers and R.O.B. It's why Wii Fit Trainer makes perfect sense. It's why Mii, Shulk and Chorus Kids will make perfect sense. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, but since you want to cover as many bases as possible, it's better to go for new successful IPs and historical characters than add another say, Mario or Zelda character because they're popular. Smash is the kind of game that INTRODUCES you to a character you're unfamiliar of, so that you can look at them and say "hey, this guy is cool, I wanna play his game!". It's all promotions. Obviously having the main villain, supporting characters, etc for very popular series is important but we pretty much covered all of that already except for Ridely. (But then Metroid IS pretty niche as is. I'm iffy on this one.) The only series this doesn't apply to is Pokemon, since it's kind of its own thing.

Diversity is Smash's biggest strength. You want to expand on it. If the roster just has characters from popular franchises just because they're from these franchises, then it makes no sense. In this case we'd have like 10 Mario characters.

Smash 4 is doing a very, very good job at this, Rosalina aside who is the only one possibly added just because of popularity. (She's also a good choice and she applies as well because she represents the Galaxy games, one of the most highly acclaimed games of all time.) I may like it so much because I played all the series represented so far (Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch Out and Mega Man), but it's this kind of thing that I play Smash for. Truthfully, I want to be introduced to characters from franchises I don't know about, because that's what got me into Smash. That's what got everyone into Smash. It's not celebrating a specific series, it's celebrating Nintendo. As a toy company.

Sorry if I'm not making myself clear, I'm tired and and need to sleep lol.

Well said, very well said.

 

[ACDC]

I sincerely doubt Sakurai will add a character from a series just because he looked at the roster and said "you know, this series NEEDS another character!" because...why?

New series first. Zelda is fine. DK is fine. F-Zero is fine.

I think a common misconception here is that the roster is based off popularity, rather than as a celebration of Nintendo's history. Diversity is more important, and it's why we're getting characters like Ice Climbers and R.O.B. It's why Wii Fit Trainer makes perfect sense. It's why Mii, Shulk and Chorus Kids will make perfect sense. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, but since you want to cover as many bases as possible, it's better to go for new successful IPs and historical characters than add another say, Mario or Zelda character because they're popular. Smash is the kind of game that INTRODUCES you to a character you're unfamiliar of, so that you can look at them and say "hey, this guy is cool, I wanna play his game!". It's all promotions. Obviously having the main villain, supporting characters, etc for very popular series is important but we pretty much covered all of that already except for Ridely. (But then Metroid IS pretty niche as is. I'm iffy on this one.) The only series this doesn't apply to is Pokemon, since it's kind of its own thing.

Diversity is Smash's biggest strength. You want to expand on it. If the roster just has characters from popular franchises just because they're from these franchises, then it makes no sense. In this case we'd have like 10 Mario characters.

Smash 4 is doing a very, very good job at this, Rosalina aside who is the only one possibly added just because of popularity. (She's also a good choice and she applies as well because she represents the Galaxy games, one of the most highly acclaimed games of all time.) I may like it so much because I played all the series represented so far (Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Punch Out and Mega Man), but it's this kind of thing that I play Smash for. Truthfully, I want to be introduced to characters I don't know about, because that's what got me into Smash. That's what got everyone into Smash. It's not celebrating a specific series, it's celebrating Nintendo. As a toy company.

Sorry if I'm not making myself clear, I'm tired and and need to sleep lol.

I agree with everything, exept F-Zero has such an amazing potential for characters because they have a wide selection and since they are fresh, we can create fresh moves on them like with C.Falcon. Black Shadow, Pico, Zoda and of course Samurai Goroh if he wasn't an assist. Oh and I'd like more Characters from F-zero like Michael Chain he would be as epic as C.Falcon but I'll try to stay realistic.

 

[Autumn ♫]

@
Believe me I've seen that many roster predictions and summaries of why their favourite characters should be included, I just dont think in a series as well established as this, a one off character or a non regular boss can really warrant an inclusion into this. The only established characters within the universe are already in the games.

But Vaati isn't a one off though, and I have no idea what you mean by non regular boss

 

[False Sense]

I think a common misconception here is that the roster is based off popularity, rather than as a celebration of Nintendo's history. Diversity is more important, and it's why we're getting characters like Ice Climbers and R.O.B. It's why Wii Fit Trainer makes perfect sense. It's why Mii, Shulk and Chorus Kids will make perfect sense. Obviously the two aren't mutually exclusive, but since you want to cover as many bases as possible, it's better to go for new successful IPs and historical characters than add another say, Mario or Zelda character because they're popular. Smash is the kind of game that INTRODUCES you to a character you're unfamiliar of, so that you can look at them and say "hey, this guy is cool, I wanna play his game!". It's all promotions. Obviously having the main villain, supporting characters, etc for very popular series is important but we pretty much covered all of that already except for Ridely. (But then Metroid IS pretty niche as is. I'm iffy on this one.)

I think you're forgetting King K. Rool.

 

[bilbo43]

But Vaati isn't a one off though, and I have no idea what you mean by non regular boss

By non-regular I mean antagonists who don't appear regularly in the series. These include demise and ghirihim, twinrova, and all the other one off bosses in the series. I'd even throw Vaati in the mix because even though he appeared in more than one game, its still Ganondorf who serves as the main antagonist of the series.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I think you're forgetting King K. Rool.

I don't think he's getting in for many reasons. I know a lot of people get disgusted at the sight of "relevancy", but considering he's an obscure character who hasn't been the main villain since 1999 in a huge franchise like DK, I do think it actually applies to him. It'd be just weird seeing a relatively unknown character like K.Rool today next to DK and Diddy. This applies to Dixie too, but to a much lesser extent if only because of Tropical Freeze. He's an important character to the DK series (or more accurately, to its history, as he's no longer needed), but I just don't see him as an important Nintendo character. Especially for one that is owned by Nintendo, but is never really used by them. He's never appeared in a first party game. He's just not comparable to Ridley. Period.

But I really don't feel like arguing about it now, so I'll just leave it.

I agree with everything, exept F-Zero has such an amazing potential for characters because they have a wide selection and since they are fresh, we can create fresh moves on them like with C.Falcon. Black Shadow, Pico, Zoda and of course Samurai Goroh if he wasn't an assist. Oh and I'd like more Characters from F-zero like Michael Chain he would be as epic as C.Falcon but I'll try to stay realistic.

I'm with you man. I love F-Zero so much that I want a new character, any of them, but I'll admit, it's just not needed or necessary. The series is dead ( ;_______; ) and Falcon represents it fine.

 

[Louie G.]

K. Rool is relevant.
Being the main villain of a popular Nintendo franchise makes him very "relevant".

If the word you are looking for is "recent", then yes, that's practically the only thing going against K. Rool's inclusion.

 

[False Sense]

I don't think he's getting in for many reasons. I know a lot of people get disgusted at the sight of "relevancy", but considering he's an obscure character who hasn't been the main villain since 1999 in a huge franchise like DK, I do think it actually applies to him. It'd be just weird seeing a relatively unknown character like K.Rool today next to DK and Diddy. This applies to Dixie too, but to a lesser extent if only because of Tropical Freeze. He's an important character to the DK series (or more accurately, to its history, as he's no longer needed), but I just don't see him as an important Nintendo character. Especially for one that is owned by Nintendo, but is never really used by them. He's never appeared in a first party game. He's just not comparable to Ridley. Period.

But I really don't feel like arguing about it now, so I'll just leave it.

And those Paon games don't mean anything because...?

I mean, they were referenced in Brawl. Sakurai acknowledged them. Do you really think Sakurai is going to regard K. Rool as obscure despite having appeared in games past 1999?

 

[Spinosaurus]

K. Rool is relevant.
Being the main villain of a popular Nintendo franchise makes him very "relevant".

If the word you are looking for is "recent", then yes, that's practically the only thing going against K. Rool's inclusion.

That depends on your definition of main villain.
Considering the DK series as a whole (not just Rare's trilogy and including the very important arcade games), he's only been the main villain in 4 (6 if you count Paon games, of which are almost always forgotten except for these cases for some reason).

To me, if the series could easily live on without him, then he's not necessary. Obviously you and I think differently, but I for one don't consider Jungle Beat, DKCR and DKCTF lesser games because of his absence. In that sense, he is irrelevant to me. Besides, DKC is represented just fine with Diddy, I don't think we need another one.

But we're just gonna argue based on different views, so let's drop it.

 

[ACDC]

I don't think he's getting in for many reasons. I know a lot of people get disgusted at the sight of "relevancy", but considering he's an obscure character who hasn't been the main villain since 1999 in a huge franchise like DK, I do think it actually applies to him. It'd be just weird seeing a relatively unknown character like K.Rool today next to DK and Diddy. This applies to Dixie too, but to a lesser extent if only because of Tropical Freeze. He's an important character to the DK series (or more accurately, to its history, as he's no longer needed), but I just don't see him as an important Nintendo character. Especially for one that is owned by Nintendo, but is never really used by them. He's never appeared in a first party game. He's just not comparable to Ridley. Period.

But I really don't feel like arguing about it now, so I'll just leave it.


I'm with you man. I love F-Zero so much that I want a new character, any of them, but I'll admit, it's just not needed or necessary. The series is dead ( ;_______; ) and Falcon represents it fine.

Dead for now, but wouldn't it be sweet if they revived it with the new GC controllers? I could totally see them doing that. And they could make it even faster with the new technology they have. And there could be side stories where you control characters out of their machines, for example falcon could hunt a bountry in his machine, and then if you win his bounty crashes and they get to fight

 

[BluePikmin11]

K. Rool is relevant.
Being the main villain of a popular Nintendo franchise makes him very "relevant".

If the word you are looking for is "recent", then yes, that's practically the only thing going against K. Rool's inclusion.

Also Dixie Kong could potentially be a wall for K. Rool.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Dead for now, but wouldn't it be sweet if they revived it with the new GC controllers? I could totally see them doing that. And they could make it even faster with the new technology they have. And there could be side stories where you control characters out of their machines, for example falcon could hunt a bountry in his machine, and then if you win his bounty crashes and they get to fight

I'm honestly hoping for an F-Zero GX remake, especially after the Gamecube controller announcement. That game is the perfect racing game and you can just port it over to the Wii U with HD and Online and it'd still be damn perfect. It's not happening because the series doesn't sell at all, but...

I still play this game. SO GOOD.

 

[Louie G.]

Who the hell said I consider Returns and Tropical Freeze inferior?

They were fine games without K. Rool. It'd be disappointing if he never returns (and I feel that he will) but the series is doing quite fine at the moment.

Don't put words into my mouth.
And yes, K. Rool is the "main villain", as he is the villain who has shown up the most in the series.

You say you want to drop it yet you use arguments against me that I never even made.

And whether a series can "go on" without a character or not doesn't effect their Smash Bros.
Mario can go on fine without Rosalina.

Also Dixie Kong could potentially be a wall for K. Rool.

Ironically you are the one person to bring up the character whose chances I find very low due to, get this...
Not being unique.
Pretty ironic, huh?

 

[Autumn ♫]

By non-regular I mean antagonists who don't appear regularly in the series. These include demise and ghirihim, twinrova, and all the other one off bosses in the series. I'd even throw Vaati in the mix because even though he appeared in more than one game, its still Ganondorf who serves as the main antagonist of the series.

Then in that case, characters like Wario would have never gotten in, because Bowser is the main villain of Mario. (Yes, Wario's been a main villain before) I don't really see the difference, especially when you consider that Vaati can be considered as the main villain of the Toon series, as he appears the most in those games.

 

[ACDC]

Who the hell said I consider Returns and Tropical Freeze inferior?

They were fine games without K. Rool. It'd be disappointing if he never returns (and I feel that he will) but the series is doing quite fine at the moment.

Don't put words into my mouth.
And yes, K. Rool is the "main villain", as he is the villain who has shown up the most in the series.

You say you want to drop it yet you use arguments against me that I never even made.

And whether a series can "go on" without a character or not doesn't effect their Smash Bros.
Mario can go on fine without Rosalina.

Ironically you are the one person to bring up the character whose chances I find very low due to, get this...
Not being unique.
Pretty ironic, huh?

I would LOVE for the king to come back, and in smash of all games, but the way you're arguing about him makes me feel kinda want him less. Maybe you should just drop it and move on from the argument.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Who the hell said I consider Returns and Tropical Freeze inferior?

They were fine games without K. Rool. It'd be disappointing if he never returns (and I feel that he will) but the series is doing quite fine at the moment.

Don't put words into my mouth.
And yes, K. Rool is the "main villain", as he is the villain who has shown up the most in the series.

You say you want to drop it yet you use arguments against me that I never even made.

And whether a series can "go on" without a character or not doesn't effect their Smash Bros.
Mario can go on fine without Rosalina.

Ironically you are the one person to bring up the character whose chances I find very low due to, get this...
Not being unique.
Pretty ironic, huh?

Dixie Kong has her hair to accompany her uniqueness, which is slightly more unique than Chrom (who is a shoo-in at this point).
That said, it's not always about uniqueness for some newcomers.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Who the hell said I consider Returns and Tropical Freeze inferior?

They were fine games without K. Rool. It'd be disappointing if he never returns (and I feel that he will) but the series is doing quite fine at the moment.

Don't put words into my mouth.
And yes, K. Rool is the "main villain", as he is the villain who has shown up the most in the series.

You say you want to drop it yet you use arguments against me that I never even made.

Chill, I wasn't meaning you. Sorry if it seemed that way.

And whether a series can "go on" without a character or not doesn't effect their Smash Bros.
Mario can go on fine without Rosalina.

It's not even a comparable situation, though. She's actually GROWING as a character, and Smash is just another step in EXPANDING that.

Ironically you are the one person to bring up the character whose chances I find very low due to, get this...
Not being unique.
Pretty ironic, huh?

...Huh? Who?

 

[Zzuxon]

King K. Rool is a much better choice than Dixie, but I'm still worried Dixie will get in first.

 

[Louie G.]

Alright, sorry I misunderstood.

And I was talking about Bluepikmin, the user who always chooses characters based on uniqueness and then goes on to say that Dixie Kong is likely and uniqueness doesn't always matter.
I just don't understand.

 

[ACDC]

Dixie Kong has her hair to accompany her uniqueness, which is slightly more unique than Chrom (who is a shoo-in at this point).
That said, it's not always about uniqueness for some newcomers.

We never know, Robin may be in instead of Chrom so I wouldn't consider him a shoe-in. Maybe we should just consider him as the most likely option

 

[Spinosaurus]

King K. Rool is a much better choice than Dixie, but I'm still worried Dixie will get in first.

She probably won't. Her chances really aren't likely at all, in my eyes. She's just...not needed in Smash. No DK character is.

I'm honestly thinking DK will stay at 2 reps. I'd be GLAD to be wrong.

 

[bilbo43]

Then in that case, characters like Wario would have never gotten in, because Bowser is the main villain of Mario. (Yes, Wario's been a main villain before) I don't really see the difference, especially when you consider that Vaati can be considered as the main villain of the Toon series, as he appears the most in those games.

I see what you are leading to with wario and bowser but i dont agree with that connection. Bowser is the main antagonist purely and simply and wario has evolved as his own character of the mario series. He has his own set of games, is one of the first characters included in the spin off games and is even playable as a protagonist in the remake of mario 64.

Donkey Kong was the original antagonist of the mario series but redeveloped his own identity.

And i disagree with Vaati being toon link's main antagonist. Ganondorf was the antagonist of the Wind Waker, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks are basically sequels to that game and the events after Ganondorf caused Hyrule to flood, I grant you the four swords adventures has Vaati included but it still has Ganondorf's aura surrounding the plot of the story. Its only minish cap of the toon link games that really doesn't have Ganondorf either directly or indirectly involved in the plot in some shape or form.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alright, sorry I misunderstood.

And I was talking about Bluepikmin, the user who always chooses characters based on uniqueness and then goes on to say that Dixie Kong is likely and uniqueness doesn't always matter.
I just don't understand.

I've changed, but some newcomers don't need uniqueness for them to be in, some newcomers could be in based on how unique and/or how big they were to Nintendo's history (Brain Age, Nintendogs), others are just based on merits for the franchise (Xenoblade for example), Chrom has a fantastic FE game going for him to get the next newcomer spot. For Dixie Kong, she would get in based on the fact she's now in a new DKC game and the series is huge, she at least has something interesting (her helicopter hair) that could completely differentiate her from Diddy.

 

[Deleted member]

Also Dixie Kong could potentially be a wall for K. Rool.

I doubt Sakurai views them as mutually exclusive; meaning that only one can get in. In fact, who's to say that two DK newcomers aren't a possibility?

 

[BluePikmin11]

I doubt Sakurai views them as mutually exclusive; meaning that only one can get in. In fact, who's to say that two DK reps aren't a possibility?

It's a pretty unlikely possibility for me.

 

[False Sense]

Dixie Kong has her hair to accompany her uniqueness, which is slightly more unique than Chrom (who is a shoo-in at this point).
That said, it's not always about uniqueness for some newcomers.

Not necessarily.

 

[Autumn ♫]

And i disagree with Vaati being toon link's main antagonist. Ganondorf was the antagonist of the Wind Waker, phantom hourglass and spirit tracks are basically sequels to that game and the events after Ganondorf caused Hyrule to flood, I grant you the four swords adventures has Vaati included but it still has Ganondorf's aura surrounding the plot of the story. Its only minish cap of the toon link games that really doesn't have Ganondorf either directly or indirectly involved in the plot in some shape or form.

So, basically what you're saying is that Ghirahim is truly the main villain of the franchise, because he started the whole franchise with his works for reviving Demise. Doesn't really make any sense.

 

[NickerBocker]

A DK newcomer is pretty likely at this point. We expect smaller series that (most likely) will not bring anything new to the table, ala Chrom from Fire Emblem. Also, we expect smaller series, which is basically anything but Mario, Zelda and Pokemon, to have the same or more characters than DK (Metroid, Mother, Kirby, Starfox, etc.)

Now I'm not an advocate for series balance, but that is not what its about. This is more about who deserves to have a new character. DK deserves a new character, and K Rool by himself has enough merits to get as well. Frankly, I find DK having only 2 characters to be criminal. Diddy should have been in Melee, what happened after that, well, I think you could guess.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol, "Toon series".

Wasn't aware that Zelda has a spin-off series inspired by Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Toon World.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Lol, "Toon series".

Wasn't aware that Zelda has a spin-off series inspired by Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Toon World.

You should get my point...

Spoiler

I honestly never played Yu-Gi-Oh so I have no idea what your talking about

 

[The Light Music Club]

Lol, "Toon series".

Wasn't aware that Zelda has a spin-off series inspired by Yu-Gi-Oh!'s Toon World.

Hey look something we can agree on.
I hate Toon Link, and like Young Link even more (wish Masked Link would have happened)


On another note,
The only character that should have any chance of having another version is Mario in the form of Paper Mario since his spin off is really named after him and he has a ton of stuff that only he can do. Toon Link doesn't have much of that, if at all.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Next thing you'll know, there'll be a CD-I series.

 

[Deleted member]

You should get my point...

Spoiler

I honestly never played Yu-Gi-Oh so I have no idea what your talking about

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Toon
Essentially, they are special cartoonish versions of pre-existing monsters (ex. Blue-Eyes Toon Dragon is the Toon version of Blue-Eyes White Dragon) that have an entire set of rules and effects relating to the Toon World spell card.
It's also arguably where the inspiration for the name "Toon Link" came from, but it can't be proven.


And I get your point.
Doesn't mean your point is cogent.


EDIT: Screw Paper Mario, I'd rather have Dr. Mario back.
Being more "Dr. Mario" and less "Mario" if people are gonna moan about clones.

 

[aldelaro5]

The only character that should have any chance of having another version is Mario in the form of Paper Mario since his spin off is really named after him and he has a ton of stuff that only he can do. Toon Link doesn't have much of that, if at all.

THIS!!!

Seriously I wrote a whole wall of text to explain this in the op of the Paper Mario thread. I don't get why people still consider him as a toon/young link/dr mario case.

 

[The Light Music Club]

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Toon
Essentially, they are special cartoonish versions of pre-existing monsters (ex. Blue-Eyes Toon Dragon is the Toon version of Blue-Eyes White Dragon) that have an entire set of rules and effects relating to the Toon World spell card.
It's also arguably where the inspiration for the name "Toon Link" came from, but it can't be proven.


And I get your point.
Doesn't mean your point is cogent.

Can't believe that this is coming up here. I used to own that starter deck.

It would be funny if a Yu-gi-oh character was in smash. He'd probably work like Pokemon Trainer.

 

[bilbo43]

So, basically what you're saying is that Ghirahim is truly the main villain of the franchise, because he started the whole franchise with his works for reviving Demise. Doesn't really make any sense.

That's not really what I am saying. Yeah ghirahim sets up the revival of demise but I can only assume that those games were set up as an origin story for Ganondorf, so he has yet created another plot for a zelda game despite not directly being involved in the game itsself.

We are getting off topic describing this, the bottom line is I'm not opposed to Vaati's inclusion, I just dont think he will be included. If he is kudos to you, but until then I guess we will just have opposing views.

If zelda gets another rep, i just hope it isn't Tingle, (wait for angry responses from tingle fans) even though i regard him as more of a series regular and a more current Zelda game character than Vaati.

I say we just agree to disagree and move on

 

[Deleted member]

I'd except a Yu-Gi-Oh! character to work like Yugi does in Jump Stars; being on the battlefield and literally summoning monsters to attack and using spells and traps.


.....or just the BEWD.

 

[ACDC]

Next thing you'll know, there'll be a CD-I series.

It's very difficult to read what you say because of the blue color. I'm stuck highlighting everything you say when I want to read it just saying

 

[NickerBocker]

Vaati was in the timeline before OoT, which is basically what the series revolves around. So to say that a game has a "Ganondorf Aura," youre mistaken, that is certainly Vaati. Ganondorf may have played a role in a game with Vaati (if he did, it was one of the four swords games, the only ones I havent beaten,) but if Vaati is the villain, hes the villain. Ganondorf is the bigger villain for sure, but Vaati is one of the only other recurring villains in the Zelda series.