Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

I personally feel as though a rock is more unique than Chrom.

Sue me.

But seriously though, I am actually a fan of Chrom's character. I might be one of the only ones.

That's true, a rock would definitely play differently from every other character.

And I don't hate him either; in his own series. I would prefer a character get in on their own merits rather than what they stand for. Isn't that the definition of royalty?

 

[JFM2796]

Alright, here is a 52 character roster.

Blue = confirmed veteran
Green = confirmed newcomer
Pink = unconfirmed veteran
Red = unconfirmed newcomer

• All Brawl veterans except are returning. is also returning.
• Assumes Gematsu leak is real
• Newcomers are K. Rool, Ridley, Chrom, Shulk, Mii, Chorus Men, Isaac, Palutena, and Pac-Man.
• I'm not too confident in Isaac, his spot could potentially be a retro character.
• In addition, Kojima could be trolling in regards to . If he was in he would go on the Random icon.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

You really gotta go away with these hilarious, baseless ideas you've convinced yourself with.

Tournament players HATE having unlockable characters because that means you need to have spent time with the game to unlock the roster if you're planning on hosting one or want to practice against a matchup. Sakurai has made several gestures toward the tournament crowd, and Namco is known for tournament-level fighting games(again, TTT2). TTT2 has no unlockable characters, just unlockable extras, which is fine and dandy because they don't get in the way of core mechanics. Combined with the fact that they're holding an Invitational tournament at E3 makes a very strong circumstance in my opinion that there will be no unlockable characters. Unless you believe they're going to have to play through the game at the Invitational first to unlock characters, which would be madness fit only for ameteur hour at some rundown nowhere, not the premiere stage of electronic entertainment.

 

[False Sense]

Tournament players HATE having unlockable characters because that means you need to have spent time with the game to unlock the roster if you're planning on hosting one or want to practice against a matchup. Sakurai has made several gestures toward the tournament crowd, and Namco is known for tournament-level fighting games(again, TTT2). TTT2 has no unlockable characters, just unlockable extras, which is fine and dandy because they don't get in the way of core mechanics. Combined with the fact that they're holding an Invitational tournament at E3 makes a very strong circumstance in my opinion that there will be no unlockable characters. Unless you believe they're going to have to play through the game at the Invitational first to unlock characters, which would be madness fit only for ameteur hour at some rundown nowhere, not the premiere stage of electronic entertainment.

Or, the inventional doesn't have every single character playable. Is that out of the question?

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

I find a lot more Fire Emblem characters more unique than Chrom, but I feel like Chrom has more of a chance than anyone else as our 3rd FE rep.

 

[Kenith]

Alright, here is a 52 character roster.

Blue = confirmed veteran
Green = confirmed newcomer
Pink = unconfirmed veteran
Red = unconfirmed newcomer

• All Brawl veterans except are returning. is also returning.
• Assumes Gematsu leak is real
• Newcomers are K. Rool, Ridley, Chrom, Shulk, Mii, Chorus Men, Isaac, Palutena, and Pac-Man.
• I'm not too confident in Isaac, his spot could potentially be a retro character.
• In addition, Kojima could be trolling in regards to . If he was in he would go on the Random icon.

My only suggestion is to cut every newcomer for Miis. You might as well, no one will play as any other character if they are playable.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Again, that is a baseless assumption based on the arbitrary pattern that all Fire Emblem representatives in Smash Bros must be Lords.

(Morbid, look what you're doing to me.)

Has any Fire Emblem characters been considered? Let's see...


Melee: Marth and Roy were playable. Sakurai wanted Leif for a Marth clone but changed his mind and went for Roy over Leif.

Brawl: Marth and Ike were playable. Roy was in the process of returning but was cut to the time constraints.

WiiU/3DS: Marth and Ike confirmed to be playable. Chrom is "leaked" as a possibility of being in the game.

Sigurd was at one point considered as well.


What do they all have in common? LORD

Alright, here is a 52 character roster.

Blue = confirmed veteran
Green = confirmed newcomer
Pink = unconfirmed veteran
Red = unconfirmed newcomer

• All Brawl veterans except are returning. is also returning.
• Assumes Gematsu leak is real
• Newcomers are K. Rool, Ridley, Chrom, Shulk, Mii, Chorus Men, Isaac, Palutena, and Pac-Man.
• I'm not too confident in Isaac, his spot could potentially be a retro character.
• In addition, Kojima could be trolling in regards to . If he was in he would go on the Random icon.

Don't like Chrom, Mii, Pac-Man, and Chorus Men, but I would honestly play this roster

9.7/10

 

[Shagadelic_Baby]

My only suggestion is to cut every newcomer for Miis. You might as well, no one will play as any other character if they are playable.

I'd be willing to bet that they'd be removed from online altogether, for obvious enough reasons.

 

[praline]

Tournament players HATE having unlockable characters because that means you need to have spent time with the game to unlock the roster if you're planning on hosting one or want to practice against a matchup. Sakurai has made several gestures toward the tournament crowd, and Namco is known for tournament-level fighting games(again, TTT2). TTT2 has no unlockable characters, just unlockable extras, which is fine and dandy because they don't get in the way of core mechanics. Combined with the fact that they're holding an Invitational tournament at E3 makes a very strong circumstance in my opinion that there will be no unlockable characters. Unless you believe they're going to have to play through the game at the Invitational first to unlock characters, which would be madness fit only for ameteur hour at some rundown nowhere, not the premiere stage of electronic entertainment.

Oh no! The poooooooooor tournament players. Just cause there's a tournament doesn't mean every character is gonna be playable or that they'll all be available at the get go. lol

 

[Kenith]

Has any Fire Emblem characters been considered? Let's see...
Melee: Marth and Roy were playable. Sakurai wanted Leif for a Marth clone but changed his mind and went for Roy over Leif.
Brawl: Marth and Ike were playable. Roy was in the process of returning but was cut to the time constraints.
WiiU/3DS: Marth and Ike confirmed to be playable. Chrom is "leaked" as a possibility of being in the game.
Sigurd was at one point considered as well.
What do they all have in common? LORD

Yes, and Ike is getting cut for Chrom in this game. LORD

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Or, the inventional doesn't have every single character playable. Is that out of the question?

I just don't think that makes sense though. It's different even in terminology from a test-play, like what Capcom did with UMvC3. A tournament insinuates that everything is available for the players to utilize and figure out. I don't expect the metagame to be known and developed Day 0, but it would be appropriate that all of the tools are made available to those participating. It'd only be fair.

 

[False Sense]

Has any Fire Emblem characters been considered? Let's see...


Melee: Marth and Roy were playable. Sakurai wanted Leif for a Marth clone but changed his mind and went for Roy over Leif.

Brawl: Marth and Ike were playable. Roy was in the process of returning but was cut to the time constraints.

WiiU/3DS: Marth and Ike confirmed to be playable. Chrom is "leaked" as a possibility of being in the game.

Sigurd was at one point considered as well.


What do they all have in common? LORD

You could also say they all have the common trait of being a main character. Robin is a main character.

Again, though, there's no proof that the Fire Emblem characters have to be Lords to get in. It's just that all the ones that have gotten in have been Lords due to that being the most common class for main characters.

 

[Morbi]

Tournament players HATE having unlockable characters because that means you need to have spent time with the game to unlock the roster if you're planning on hosting one or want to practice against a matchup. Sakurai has made several gestures toward the tournament crowd, and Namco is known for tournament-level fighting games(again, TTT2). TTT2 has no unlockable characters, just unlockable extras, which is fine and dandy because they don't get in the way of core mechanics. Combined with the fact that they're holding an Invitational tournament at E3 makes a very strong circumstance in my opinion that there will be no unlockable characters. Unless you believe they're going to have to play through the game at the Invitational first to unlock characters, which would be madness fit only for ameteur hour at some rundown nowhere, not the premiere stage of electronic entertainment.

I did not realize that a party game designed for casuals catered to the competitive crowd; the competitive crowd that currently exists with unlock-able characters. I suppose those alleged gestures toward the competitive community means that he is going to drastically alter the game for them. L-Canceling and Wave-Dashing confirmed to return? Good thing Namco convinced Sakurai to change his purpose and intent.

The invitational isn't going to use the final version of the game. It is not going to be the final build.

 

[praline]

Pretty sure the tournament is literally for no reason other than fun.

 

[AncientTobacco]

I'm bored, so I made a new (wish) roster:

 

[Rockaphin]

I couldn't care less for the tournament scene. Especially if that prevents me from trying to unlock characters. Gives me more of a reason to do things like Event Mode and other Single Player modes.

 

[praline]

I'm bored, so I made a new (wish) roster:

I'd be cool with this.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I'm bored, so I made a new (wish) roster:

Points for Sceppy, K.Rool, and Classic Ganon. (that doesn't replace Ganondorf)
No Snake though...

----

 

[Morbi]

I'm bored, so I made a new (wish) roster:

Ganon and Medusa? Would bang, roster is 10/10!

I couldn't care less for the tournament scene. Especially if that prevents me from trying to unlock characters. Gives me more of a reason to do things like Event Mode and other Single Player modes.

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly, removing unlock-able characters would be detrimental to the game. They are the only reason I try some of those modes.

 

[Kenith]

I just don't think that makes sense though. It's different even in terminology from a test-play, like what Capcom did with UMvC3. A tournament insinuates that everything is available for the players to utilize and figure out. I don't expect the metagame to be known and developed Day 0, but it would be appropriate that all of the tools are made available to those participating. It'd only be fair.

Why does the Invitational matter so much? Isn't it essentially a demo?

If they're disappointed some characters aren't there, big deal, buy the actual game.

 

[JFM2796]

My only suggestion is to cut every newcomer for Miis. You might as well, no one will play as any other character if they are playable.

I'm not excited about the idea of Miis either; I just find them likely, even disregarding the leak.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

I did not realize that a party game designed for casuals catered to the competitive crowd; the competitive crowd that currently exists with unlock-able characters. I suppose those alleged gestures toward the competitive community means that he is going to drastically alter the game for them. L-Canceling and Wave-Dashing confirmed to return? Good thing Namco convinced Sakurai to change his purpose and intent.

The invitational isn't going to use the final version of the game. It is not going to be the final build.

Hooboy, I'm not even gonna begin to open that can of worms. I'm saying that the following is true:

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.
- Sakurai has stated he's not keen on too many characters because he feels it puts genuinely unique ones at risk(see: Mewtwo in Brawl, and I don't even LIKE Mewtwo!)
- Namco has been steadily winding down unlockables in their FGs(Soulcalibur V had 6, if you counted the three mimics(Kilik, Edgemaster, Elysium), and if you counted an unlockable moveset(NOT character, moveset), 7). TTT2, a roster of 50+, had ZERO unlockable characters.
- Tournament players want immediate access to all characters.
- Tournaments must make all available tools available for use, even if said use is unknown at the moment.

So, from all of that, is it really so hard to think the Invitiational will be fully enabled to build hype and availability?

 

[JFM2796]

I'm bored, so I made a new (wish) roster:

I like your choice of Ganon, K. Rool and Sceptile (would choose him over Mewtwo in a heartbeat).

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I would imagine the tournament build will differ from the final retail build...
It could easily have fighters who will be hidden in the final game. Namely Sonic and Mega Man.

 

[False Sense]

Out of curiosity, was there ever a tournament of play-testing of Brawl before it came out, and did it not have all the characters? I feel like there was...

 

[Morbi]

Hooboy, I'm not even gonna begin to open that can of worms. I'm saying that the following is true:

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.
- Sakurai has stated he's not keen on too many characters because he feels it puts genuinely unique ones at risk(see: Mewtwo in Brawl, and I don't even LIKE Mewtwo!)
- Namco has been steadily winding down unlockables in their FGs(Soulcalibur V had 6, if you counted the three mimics(Kilik, Edgemaster, Elysium), and if you counted an unlockable moveset(NOT character, moveset), 7). TTT2, a roster of 50+, had ZERO unlockable characters.
- Tournament players want immediate access to all characters.
- Tournaments must make all available tools available for use, even if said use is unknown at the moment.

So, from all of that, is it really so hard to think the Invitiational will be fully enabled to build hype and availability?

- Sakurai, he dislikes spoilers; however, he adds secret characters anyways... until Smash 4 that is!
- He also stated that a different direction might be needed.
- Namco's direction is immaterial.
- That doesn't necessarily mean that he has to take out unlock-able characters. He can actually satisfy both parties needs.
- Source?

 

[Kenith]

Out of curiosity, was there ever a tournament of play-testing of Brawl before it came out, and did it not have all the characters? I feel like there was...

No, but there was a demo featuring only 12 characters (out of 39) including Sonic, who is unlockable.

 

[Dairz]

Hooboy, I'm not even gonna begin to open that can of worms. I'm saying that the following is true:

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.
- Sakurai has stated he's not keen on too many characters because he feels it puts genuinely unique ones at risk(see: Mewtwo in Brawl, and I don't even LIKE Mewtwo!)
- Namco has been steadily winding down unlockables in their FGs(Soulcalibur V had 6, if you counted the three mimics(Kilik, Edgemaster, Elysium), and if you counted an unlockable moveset(NOT character, moveset), 7). TTT2, a roster of 50+, had ZERO unlockable characters.
- Tournament players want immediate access to all characters.
- Tournaments must make all available tools available for use, even if said use is unknown at the moment.

So, from all of that, is it really so hard to think the Invitiational will be fully enabled to build hype and availability?

- Unlockables have been present in every other Smash game
- Its not a full-fledged "tournament", the game isn't even done
- Why in the world would they announce every single character remaining all at once

 

[Second Power]

@ EbonyRubberWolf Having to unlock characters really isn't as big a deal to tournament players as you make it out to be. And, considering your using 3rd person, it's starting to feel like you're just throwing them under the bus.

 

[Kenith]

Oh, by the way, I found a (low-red) snapshot of that Demo's roster (for Brawl)

See? 14 characters. But no Wario, King Dedede, Olimar, etc. even though they were confirmed.

edit: Actually I am partially wrong, Dedede and Olimar weren't confirmed. Kirby is missing, though.

 

[mini paincakes]

I just don't think that makes sense though. It's different even in terminology from a test-play, like what Capcom did with UMvC3. A tournament insinuates that everything is available for the players to utilize and figure out. I don't expect the metagame to be known and developed Day 0, but it would be appropriate that all of the tools are made available to those participating. It'd only be fair.

Since the game hasn't even been released yet, none of the players competing would have an established main, let alone a main who is unlockable. It wouldn't matter if not every character in the game was available during the tournament. It would still be a fair tournament if not every character is available, so long as each person in the tournament has the same limited roster to pick from.

Honestly, it would make a lot of sense for Nintendo to only have a certain amount characters available for the tournament, since they want to market the newcomers with reveal trailers and they want some other characters to be kept secret until launch. This isn't a MLG tournament. It's a fun event hosted by Nintendo for marketing purposes and if they think it's better marketing not to reveal every character in the game, then they wont have every character available for this tournament.

 

[praline]

Hooboy, I'm not even gonna begin to open that can of worms. I'm saying that the following is true:

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.
- Sakurai has stated he's not keen on too many characters because he feels it puts genuinely unique ones at risk(see: Mewtwo in Brawl, and I don't even LIKE Mewtwo!)
- Namco has been steadily winding down unlockables in their FGs(Soulcalibur V had 6, if you counted the three mimics(Kilik, Edgemaster, Elysium), and if you counted an unlockable moveset(NOT character, moveset), 7). TTT2, a roster of 50+, had ZERO unlockable characters.
- Tournament players want immediate access to all characters.
- Tournaments must make all available tools available for use, even if said use is unknown at the moment.

So, from all of that, is it really so hard to think the Invitiational will be fully enabled to build hype and availability?

Sakurai said he disliked that the SSE was spoiled. Nothing about spoilers in general, Namco may be working on the game but it's still Sakurai's call, Tournament players can cry more, tournaments don't have to do ****.


Why don't you just quit while you're behind?

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Hooboy, I'm not even gonna begin to open that can of worms. I'm saying that the following is true:

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.
- Sakurai has stated he's not keen on too many characters because he feels it puts genuinely unique ones at risk(see: Mewtwo in Brawl, and I don't even LIKE Mewtwo!)
- Namco has been steadily winding down unlockables in their FGs(Soulcalibur V had 6, if you counted the three mimics(Kilik, Edgemaster, Elysium), and if you counted an unlockable moveset(NOT character, moveset), 7). TTT2, a roster of 50+, had ZERO unlockable characters.
- Tournament players want immediate access to all characters.
- Tournaments must make all available tools available for use, even if said use is unknown at the moment.

So, from all of that, is it really so hard to think the Invitiational will be fully enabled to build hype and availability?

Hey, I respect you for having the guts to so confidently stand behind your opinion, even if nobody seems to agree with you.
I don't think you'll be correct, however your points are valid.
That said, I don't think you can convince anyone without being proven right during E3.

On the plus side, if you are right, we will all probably be very impressed.

 

[Kenith]

Since the game hasn't even been released yet, none of the players competing would have an established main, let alone a main who is unlockable. It wouldn't matter if not every character in the game was available during the tournament. It would still be a fair tournament if not every character is available, so long as each person in the tournament has the same limited roster to pick from.

Honestly, it would make a lot of sense for Nintendo to only have a certain amount characters available for the tournament, since they want to market the newcomers with reveal trailers and they want some other characters to be kept secret until launch. This isn't a MLG tournament. It's a fun event hosted by Nintendo for marketing purposes and if they think it's better marketing not to reveal every character in the game, then they wont have every character available for this tournament.

I agree with all of this, you are absolutely right.

 

[AncientTobacco]

- Sakurai dislikes spoilers.

He didn't like how people watched the SSE cutscenes online instead of actually playing through the mode, as they were sort of meant to be a "reward" for doing that.

With unlockable characters, the reward is getting to play as them, not finding out who they are.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh, by the way, I found a (low-red) snapshot of that Demo's roster (for Brawl)

See? 14 characters. But no Wario, King Dedede, Olimar, etc. even though they were confirmed.

Actually King Dedede and Olimar weren't confirmed yet during the E for All demo. But yeah, it has a number of already confirmed at the time characters missing there such as Wario, Lucas, Snake, Kirby, etc.

 

[Kenith]

Actually Dedede and Olimar weren't confirmed yet during the E for All demo. But yeah, it has a number of already confirmed at the time characters missing there such as Wario, Kirby, etc.

Didn't even notice that. Kirby?? Wow.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Then why call it an invitational tournament? Call it a test demo and avoid the confusion. This is 'boss characters' level confusion here.

 

[Kenith]

Then why call it an invitational tournament? Call it a test demo and avoid the confusion. This is 'boss characters' level confusion here.

Uh, because they're inviting people to play it?

 

[False Sense]

Then why call it an invitational tournament? Call it a test demo and avoid the confusion. This is 'boss characters' level confusion here.

Really?

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but I don't think the name of the tournament is as confusing or controversial as that clip of Ridley.