Character Discussion Thread

[Richard Nixon]

Sakurai said in an interview with a Japanese magazine called Nintendo Dream.

The Japanese Wikipedia page for Brawl states:Here's a translation I found somewhere "Lucas was supposed to be in the previous game ''Super Smash Bros. Melee'', but due to how that worked out with Mother 3's eventual cancellation on the N64, he was cut. With his game coming back and being released on the GBA in 2006, he is in the game this time around -Brawl-. With that in mind, we had planned to scrap Ness, but because Mother 3 never got a release outside of Japan, Ness is back once more". But you can put it in Google translate if you want.

And the source is there, the April 2008 issue of Nintendo Dream.

Wait. So you're telling me Lucas was planned to replace one of the original 12, not just once, but twice??

It may have nothing to do with Smash 4, but if that precedent isn't good for his chances, I don't know what is.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

Wait. So you're telling me Lucas was planned to replace one of the original 12, not just once, but twice??

It may have nothing to do with Smash 4, but if that precedent isn't good for his chances, I don't know what is.

So basically, the original 12 being safe is a whole bunch of BS.

 

[Bauske]

Dude, I know, right? The exact DAY that I think "you know what? As much as I think Ike is unique, I feel like Chrom might get in over him" is the exact day that Ike gets revealed. So I guess that means I know next to nothing of what Sakurai is thinking. :D

Still, I laughed at myself and this reveal's timing quite a bit when it happened. Ah well!

 

[Richard Nixon]

So basically, the original 12 being safe is a whole bunch of BS.

Yeah. That too.

Though I would argue veteran status in multiple games is a very positive factor for inclusion, it's certainly not absolute.

 

[Kenith]

Wait. So you're telling me Lucas was planned to replace one of the original 12, not just once, but twice??
It may have nothing to do with Smash 4, but if that precedent isn't good for his chances, I don't know what is.

So basically, the original 12 being safe is a whole bunch of BS.

No, I think you're both right.
Ness and Lucas both have decent chances in my opinion.

And anyone who says that Lucas will get cut for reasons such as "he's irrelevant", well...

(I'm partially being facetious. I know Ike has more merit than Lucas, but he still is in the same boat)

 

[Croph]

I hope that they revamp Lucas to make him a total wuss.

Like, his moveset is PK Love and Hypnosis, among other things (they already have the stick, that's a start)

Hey, there's nothing wussy about those moves! >:[

jk, jk

But I really do hope they differentiate Lucas more. I always thought it would have been cool if Lucas had some sort of rhythm-based move in Brawl, as a shout-out to Mother 3's rhythm-based combo system (spinning notes galore!). Perhaps Hypnosis could help...

 

[Kenith]

I personally am beginning to think that Pacman could be considered our "retro rep".

Mainly because representing Pacman in Smash Bros without it being his classic arcade version (not the pie, the actual character) should be a criminal offense.

 

[Bauske]

As for thinking we'll get another vet reveal before E3, I don't think so. Before when we had 29 characters, I could totally see it, but now we're at a nice even 30. The Brawl web site had 25 characters revealed before launch. We're already five above that, and we're going to get more at E3. I'm almost predicting a completely set amount of either 5 or 10 characters revealed at E3 now, nothing more or less. Those numbers exactly, so that after E3 they'll have their entire starting roster announced and it'll be a nice number like 35 or 40.

But again, I was utterly and completely wrong about Ike and his reveal, so what do I know?

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

I may be putting up an update prediction roster up tonight. Stay tuned.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I personally am beginning to think that Pacman could be considered our "retro rep".

Mainly because representing Pacman in Smash Bros without it being his classic arcade version (not the pie, the actual character) should be a criminal offense.

Given Sakurai's treatment of Mega Man, and to some extent, Sonic, I think Pac-Man's design will be retro inspired. Unless Namco REALLY wants to promote the Ghostly Adventures.
Anyway, I see them favoring his most iconic look.

 

[Bauske]

I personally am beginning to think that Pacman could be considered our "retro rep".

Mainly because representing Pacman in Smash Bros without it being his classic arcade version (not the pie, the actual character) should be a criminal offense.

Well.. can't he still be our retro rep and still look modern? Pac-Man is classic in idea and in iconicness, regardless of look. And most people still consider his first game his best, so I think that makes him retro enough.

That's not to say I think he'll be the retro rep, but then again, I never felt like each game needed a retro rep in the first place. Ike's inclusion already breaks down the fact that we think Sakurai has a mold he needs to stick to.

 

[Kenith]

Well.. can't he still be our retro rep and still look modern? Pac-Man is classic in idea and in iconicness, regardless of look. And most people still consider his first game his best, so I think that makes him retro enough.

That's not to say I think he'll be the retro rep, but then again, I never felt like each game needed a retro rep in the first place. Ike's inclusion already breaks down the fact that we think Sakurai has a mold he needs to stick to.

I've already established that I will legitimately be angry if Ghostly Adventures Pacman gets in because he isn't the same thing, to me. It's not like classic Pacman is non-existent.

edit: It doesn't feel like this same concept, honestly.

If Ghostly Adventures Pacman gets in, it's to promote Namco Bandai themselves, which I don't think is really enough reason.

If Classic Pacman gets in, though, he's representing Pacman (and the arcade game) and THAT warrants his inclusion in my opinion.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I may be putting up an update prediction roster up tonight. Stay tuned.

Yeah, I want to post my updated roster soon too. The last one I made was the one I jotted down on paper shortly after E3 last year.

 

[Bauske]

I've already established that I will legitimately be angry if Ghostly Adventures Pacman gets in because he isn't the same thing, to me. It's not like classic Pacman is non-existent.

Well no, and canon-wise, they're two different characters. It's implied, though never specifically stated, that Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is the son of the original Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man. So while they are different (and different for other reasons, like bringing it back for a new generation of kids and people), the idea of the character is still roughly the same. Somewhat. Maybe not. xD

Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is more like the unlikely hero. He's shy, picked on, and doesn't really have anything noteworthy going for him aside from his insane appetite, which allows him to deal with the ghosts who try to cause havoc. He's literally the only one who can, so he ends up reluctantly becoming the hero, and grows to love it over time.

Regular Pac-Man is just... you know... he's Pac-Man! There's really no background history or anything. It's like a Mario and Bowser sort of thing. Mario's the good guy, Bowser's the bad guy. Bowser does bad things and Mario fixes them and punishes Bowser for his deeds. Are there other people like Mario out there in the world? Sure, there's Luigi and Wario (before he became a jealous, greedy butt), but ultimately it's Mario who's the star because... well.. he just is. He can jump high! That's why. Regular Pac-Man is similar to that. There's no reason for his role other than he's needed as a protagonist.

And maybe that's why I like GA Pac-Man more. Sure, he may look different, but they gave him a history and a story and it helps me feel like he's a character rather than just a cool/cute protagonist put in the position of being a hero. He has feelings and friends to help him rather than being an all-star all the time. I suppose from an outside perspective, just looking at GA Pac-Man and the pictures, he can look jarring, but I've watched every episode of the show, and I genuinely like him better as a character because of the character development, history, and backstory they put into him.

 

[Kenith]

Well no, and canon-wise, they're two different characters. It's implied, though never specifically stated, that Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is the son of the original Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man. So while they are different (and different for other reasons, like bringing it back for a new generation of kids and people), the idea of the character is still roughly the same. Somewhat. Maybe not. xD

Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is more like the unlikely hero. He's shy, picked on, and doesn't really have anything noteworthy going for him aside from his insane appetite, which allows him to deal with the ghosts who try to cause havoc. He's literally the only one who can, so he ends up reluctantly becoming the hero, and grows to love it over time.

Regular Pac-Man is just... you know... he's Pac-Man! There's really no background history or anything. It's like a Mario and Bowser sort of thing. Mario's the good guy, Bowser's the bad guy. Bowser does bad things and Mario fixes them and punishes Bowser for his deeds. Are there other people like Mario out there in the world? Sure, there's Luigi and Wario (before he became a jealous, greedy butt), but ultimately it's Mario who's the star because... well.. he just is. He can jump high! That's why. Regular Pac-Man is similar to that. There's no reason for his role other than he's needed as a protagonist.

And maybe that's why I like GA Pac-Man more. Sure, he may look different, but they gave him a history and a story and it helps me feel like he's a character rather than just a cool/cute protagonist put in the position of being a hero. He has feelings and friends to help him rather than being an all-star all the time. I suppose from an outside perspective, just looking at GA Pac-Man and the pictures, he can look jarring, but I've watched every episode of the show, and I genuinely like him better as a character because of the character development, history, and backstory they put into him.

Yes, I definitely prefer the retro Pacman's story...Sorry.

 

[Bauske]

Yes, I definitely prefer the retro Pacman's story...Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry about. Mario's been the same way for years and people still love him, right? It all comes down to personal preference.

Sorta like Mega Man. I actually really dislike Mega Man X and everything other than the NES games for a similar reason to yours. I felt like they got too complicated with the plot. All I wanted was Wily being a bad dude, causing problems, building robot masters, and Mega Man going in and stopping him. Then with X they did this whole backstory and future setting and Dr. Light is dead but Sigma is created by Dr. Cain and then defected to a new group and blah blah... It sorta lost me and I lost interest. I enjoyed the simple charm of the simple plot designed around incredible action platforming.

Which is why I'm super happy classic Mega Man is in Smash 4 instead of X or any others. He's the best in my mind. So I get ya, man. I understand where you're coming from. (and trust me, I've hashed it out with friends of mine who are hardcore X fans. sometimes we just like what we like.)

 

[Kenith]

I'll post my roster on the new page. I don't remember the character count. Maybe it was 52? Eh.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Exciting fact:
Even if there are no more newcomers, if every veteran returned we would have a 45 character roster.

Seeing as it's pretty unlikely that we've seen every newcomers already, getting a roster of fewer than 45 characters is, at this point, rather unlikely.
Back in the pre-Brawl days, a 45 character roster was what we dreamed of. Pinch me.

 

[Morbi]

Well no, and canon-wise, they're two different characters. It's implied, though never specifically stated, that Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is the son of the original Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man. So while they are different (and different for other reasons, like bringing it back for a new generation of kids and people), the idea of the character is still roughly the same. Somewhat. Maybe not. xD

Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man is more like the unlikely hero. He's shy, picked on, and doesn't really have anything noteworthy going for him aside from his insane appetite, which allows him to deal with the ghosts who try to cause havoc. He's literally the only one who can, so he ends up reluctantly becoming the hero, and grows to love it over time.

Regular Pac-Man is just... you know... he's Pac-Man! There's really no background history or anything. It's like a Mario and Bowser sort of thing. Mario's the good guy, Bowser's the bad guy. Bowser does bad things and Mario fixes them and punishes Bowser for his deeds. Are there other people like Mario out there in the world? Sure, there's Luigi and Wario (before he became a jealous, greedy butt), but ultimately it's Mario who's the star because... well.. he just is. He can jump high! That's why. Regular Pac-Man is similar to that. There's no reason for his role other than he's needed as a protagonist.

And maybe that's why I like GA Pac-Man more. Sure, he may look different, but they gave him a history and a story and it helps me feel like he's a character rather than just a cool/cute protagonist put in the position of being a hero. He has feelings and friends to help him rather than being an all-star all the time. I suppose from an outside perspective, just looking at GA Pac-Man and the pictures, he can look jarring, but I've watched every episode of the show, and I genuinely like him better as a character because of the character development, history, and backstory they put into him.

I trust you; you are clearly a true fan of the character. I have no preferences as I am not really associated with Pac-Man in regards to anything other than the notion that I have played his game. I cannot even tell the difference to be perfectly truthful. So I hope that GA Pac-Man is added (if one was to be included); for his real fans, fans that aren't fans of his because he doesn't have a stereotypical personality.

 

[andimidna]

That's Radiant Dawn Ike, isn't it? HYPE!
I can't believe I was just starting to doubt him a bit. So glad he's back.

I'll post my roster on the new page. I don't remember the character count. Maybe it was 52? Eh.

The roster I saw you post (yesterday?) had 54 characters.

I don't know why I remember that, but I do.

Spoiler

If you don't go fast enough, I'll steal your Ike avatar (:<

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'm Ike, and I fight for my friends....that isn't Corn

 

[Kenith]

I'll honestly take anyone that isn't Chrom at this point. Unless there's more than one FE newcomer.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I trust you; you are clearly a true fan of the character. I have no preferences as I am not really associated with Pac-Man in regards to anything other than the notion that I have played his game. I cannot even tell the difference to be perfectly truthful. So I hope that GA Pac-Man is added (if one was to be included); for his real fans, fans that aren't fans of his because he doesn't have a stereotypical personality.

I haven't played much Pac Man, but for the sake of fanservice I'd love to see classic AND modern Pac.
Alt costumes. Alt costumes everywhere.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm Ike, and I fight for my friends....that isn't Corn

I'm starting to remember why I hate the Roy fanbase.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'll honestly take anyone that isn't Chrom at this point. Unless there's more than one FE newcomer.

You are getting Chrom and you'll like it, son, cause he's INEVITABLE!

 

[Kenith]

I haven't played much Pac Man, but for the sake of fanservice I'd love to see classic AND modern Pac.
Alt costumes. Alt costumes everywhere.

You know what? That would be absolutely perfect for Pac-Man. They're almost the exact same design, just with a few subtle but important differences, so this would require next to no effort.

 

[Morbi]

I'm starting to remember why I hate the Roy fanbase.

I hate all fan-bases as they are inherently biased and annoying. Including the Ganon fan-base, including the Hades fan-base, including the Black Shadow fan-base, including every fan-base that I am a part of.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I'll honestly take anyone that isn't Chrom, Robin, or Anna at this point. Unless there's more than one FE newcomer.

I pretty much agree with you. Who needs these three when there are far better characters to have?

 

[Kenith]

I hate all fan-bases as they are inherently biased and annoying. Including the Ganon fan-base, including the Hades fan-base, including the Black Shadow fan-base, including every fan-base that I am a part of.

Oh, hold on, Morbid, you dropped your hipster glasses! Let me get that for you.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't expect you to be someone to expend the effort to hate things.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Back in June, a lot of people were talking about Toon Link, Lucario and Ike getting cut. I'm glad they were all wrong.

Ike's confirmation means that characters with unique movesets are very unlikely to be cut, even if they are no longer currently relevant to their series.

I think the list of potential cuts has shrunk quite dramatically, now; Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake. Every other character is almost certainly safe.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Back in June, a lot of people were talking about Toon Link, Lucario and Ike getting cut. I'm glad they were all wrong.

Ike's confirmation means that characters with unique movesets are very unlikely to be cut, even if they are no longer currently relevant to their series.

I think the list of potential cuts has shrunk quite dramatically, now; Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake. Every other character is almost certainly safe.

Let's have Wolf as next week's reveal.

 

[Kenith]

I think, even assuming we get Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, that Ivysaur and Squirtle could still come back.

Sue me.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Back in June, a lot of people were talking about Toon Link, Lucario and Ike getting cut. I'm glad they were all wrong.

Ike's confirmation means that characters with unique movesets are very unlikely to be cut, even if they are no longer currently relevant to their series.

I think the list of potential cuts has shrunk quite dramatically, now; Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake. Every other character is almost certainly safe.

I'm more worried for Wolf and Lucas due to Wolf being one of my mains and Lucas being fun to play as. Hope they don't get the boot

 

[Morbi]

Oh, hold on, Morbid, you dropped your hipster glasses! Let me get that for you.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't expect you to be someone to expend the effort to hate things.

I was being sarcastic (that would insinuate that I hate myself; trust me, I am FAR too narcissistic to hate myself), I do hate something though. I hate people that arbitrarily hate something. Therefore, I am hypocritical as it only incites a perpetual circle of hatred.

Back in June, a lot of people were talking about Toon Link, Lucario and Ike getting cut. I'm glad they were all wrong.

Ike's confirmation means that characters with unique movesets are very unlikely to be cut, even if they are no longer currently relevant to their series.

I think the list of potential cuts has shrunk quite dramatically, now; Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake. Every other character is almost certainly safe.

I am glad that I was right.

I pretty much agree with you. Who needs these three when there are far better characters to have?

Ike might be our man, but Roy is still our boy!

 

[Rockaphin]

I think, even assuming we get Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, that Ivysaur and Squirtle could still come back.

Sue me.

I'd take Squirtle and Ivysaur before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
Sue me!

 

[Kenith]

I'd take Squirtle and Ivysaur before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
Sue me!

Okay, now that is sue worthy.

 

[Morbi]

I'd take Squirtle and Ivysaur before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
Sue me!

I am seriously considering it.

I'm more worried for Wolf and Lucas due to Wolf being one of my mains and Lucas being fun to play as. Hope they don't get the boot

I am not worried about them at all.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'd take Squirtle and Ivysaur before Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
Sue me!

How dare you.

 

[Kenith]

I was being sarcastic (that would insinuate that I hate myself; trust me, I am FAR too narcissistic to hate myself), I do hate something though. I hate people that arbitrarily hate something. Therefore, I am hypocritical as it only incites a perpetual circle of hatred.

I know, I just wanted to say that.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I think, even assuming we get Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, that Ivysaur and Squirtle could still come back.

Sue me.

I actually agree with you. Technically they were never officially confirmed cut. So unless too many Pokemon is deemed a good reason, I feel they have as much a chance as anyone. Heck, I'd like to see them come back because I hate seeing characters cut.
That said, eight characters from one series is a lot for a roster under 60. So I won't hold my breath. If anyone got cut, those two seem likely.
I wish the trailer had confirmed their fate though. Charizard could have taken off, leaving his old companions and trainer behind as they looked on, with bittersweet pride.
"Go get 'em, champ."