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Character Discussion Thread

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aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
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Would you rather have the main protagonist (who is literally a flat Mario) in a niche series than the main villain of New Super Mario Bros, the best selling Mario series at this point?

Yeah.
So you want an honest answer? YES (also sales mostly shouldn't matter that much)

My main reason for it is basically how the series is so amazing. If it wasn't obvious enough, I LOVE TTYD because I realized that this game is more than a mario rpg in paper form: it;s a masterpeice.

I cannot go in all detial this game has but I can tell you that in every aspect, this game amazed me for how much detail was put into it. Just the ost is a good example also with the artstyle (which is different from location to location) and the battle mechanics. It is an almost perfect sequel because it pushed the first game to its limit and I think it was a crime to only rep this with trophies and stickers. I glitch hunted this game for 6 months and even today, this game REFUSES to get old and it was released on November 2004.

To tell you how much I want rep for this: just one music would be a HUGE welcome for me. Also, yes I want the character more than jr because of just how he can bring so much new thing to the table. If the character is here well that most likely includes music and stage and there's again big potential there. There's literally nothing he doesn't have to be in smash and this is why I want him more.

EDIT: Oh and if you think he's "just another mario" well check this which I made myself:

[collapse=moveset]
Movesets

Normal moves
A
: Paper Mario swings his hammer horizontally from behind (he folds a little).
A - A: Then, he swings his hammer horizontally on the other side.
A - A - A: Finally, he swings his hammer with more power on the ground (he uses the super hammer in the combo).
Side tilt A: Using a tail sticker, he sweeps his tail in front of him doing a little damage.
Up tilt A: Using a spike helmet sticker, he puts it on his head and do a little hop at the same time damaging enemies above.
Down tilt A: Paper Mario summons Barry who appears instantly and makes a barrier surrounding Paper Mario which will spin and do damage.

Dash: Paper Mario spins on one foot while moving in front which will do only one hit but it does quite some damage.

Smash moves
Side Smash: Paper Mario uses a gray hammer with power smash (big starting lag but very strong).
Up Smash: Paper Mario uses an orange hammer which he will throw afterwards (little starting lag but do quite a bit of damage and the hammer will only disappears after an enemy is hurt or if it touches the ground).
Down Smash: Paper Mario uses a purple hammer with quake hammer attacking all enemies on the ground within 1 battlefield platform of range (little lag but do little damage to each enemy).

Neutral Air: Paper Mario put his feet together trying to land on an enemy. You cannot double jump nor use any other aerial move in this state and you can only press left and right to control your landing. If he fails, he fell on the floor, laying down and being vulnerable before getting up. If he succeed, he jumps on him and gain another jump while the enemy is frozen in his damage animation for a tiny amount of time. This jumps acts like a second jump so you can't jump again in this one. You can use neutral A however you want but it will be hard to do this multiple time and also tha neutral air only does a little damage so it's best to use on multiple enemies or using another aerial after.
Side Air: Paper Mario do his belly stylish moves hitting some opponents in his animation and does a little damage.
Back Aerial: Paper Mario do some back flip while moving behind like his stylish move and doing some damage. Because he moves behind, it can't be used well after a neutral air.
Up Air: Paper Mario spin while hoping above him doing some little hits to the enemies. Again, this one doesn't go well after a neutral air.
Down Air: Paper Mario ground pound and do quite a bit of damages but it has some starting lag. It's best to use after a neutral air to do even more damage and since the enemy will be frozen, you have just enough time to do it.

Grab moves
Grab
: Paper Mario summons Thoreau which will try to grab in front of Paper Mario and has practically no lag but has a low range. He will then bring the foe to Paper Mario.
Pummel: When used, Paper Mario won't be able to throw but he will jumps on the enemies head repeatedly and you will need to press A every time he stomps on him while Thoreau is still holding his foe. The pummel and the grab finish if either the foes escape (which is more difficult after every stomps) or if you miss your timing which is again more difficult every time. As you jump, the damage given increases.
Side Throw: Paper Mario uses an ultra hammer which he will charge for a short time to then smack the opponent. This opponent will then receive some knock back and if he comes into contact of another enemies, this one will receive little damage too.
Back Throw: Paper Mario picks the foe as if he was a sticker and tries to "peel" him. This will throw the foe with some knock back behind.
Up Throw: While Thoreau brings the foe a little higher, Paper Mario uses a thunder bolt that he will raise above him and after it, the enemy will be struck by a thunder which will do decent damage.
Down Throw: Paper Mario folds into himself as Thoreau prevents the foe from escaping the grab by pushing him on the ground. Then, Paper Mario jumps and land on the enemy with great force doing good damage.

Special moves

Neutral B: Paper Mario enters unto a thinking states where he looks thoughtful while being vulnerable. An horizontal scroll bar appears where his feet are with a little stick tilting from left to right under it. While still holding B, you will have to select the partner with your stick and releasing B once you're done (this includes menu sounds effects from TTYD). If you are hit, you will have more lag than usual and instantly cancelling the switch. If you manage to get the switch, the icon will go near his HUD spot switching the one that was there before while you're exiting this state (very quick). By default, you always start with Gombella, the weakest partner and if you loose a stock, your partner will be switched to Goombella again. You will have to use this move while you're away from your opponents because it can become very risky otherwise but the reward you get is a new special move. When the partner is attacking, Paper Mario can do whatever he wants but some moves has some summons lag which only affacts the partner. Every partner are all set to counter different situations. They are on the background of the stage but doesn't move. You only see them after you use his attack. These are the partner with their respective actions:

Goombella
She will jump in front of Paper Mario and tries to land on an enemy. She will only be able to bonk one time and it does little damage but she's also your default partner which means that you can use her right away without switching. This attack is really quick however. Works on ground and in the air.

Koops
This one has a little starting lag since Paper Mario has to hop a little when his shell appears and after he stomps on it, Koops will go forward hitting all the enemy with decent damages but little knock back. It won't work in the air but you can use it and wait for Paper Mario to fall down (because the shell will fell if you do this above the ground).

Admiral Bobbery
Will walk a little before stopping and charges before exploding with great force that can damages greatly enemies near him. However, it takes a lot of summons lag due to him charging but if no enemies moves, the reward is great damage to enemies with decent knock back. In the air, Paper Mario will throw it until he reaches the ground and then proceed to charge.

Lady Bow
With a fan, she will go forward and try to smack a foe multiple time with her fan. It has decent lag for her to charge but you get a multi hit that does decent damages in total. It can be used in the air but because of the lag, it's better to use it near platform and the stage.

Watt
He will go forward and tries to electrify and opponent which will paralyse him. Little damage but only little lag. You can also use it in the air and since there's not much lag, it works pretty well for preventing the foe to recover.

Side B: Paper Mario's partner uses his moves.
Up B: Paper Mario transforms into an air plane which allow him to glide for a short time. The tip of the air plane does little damage and it has a little start lag so it's best as recovery but not as an attack.
Down B: Paper Mario holds his fist with an angry face for a tiny amount of time. If any foes attack him while in this state, he will spin with his fist up and the enemy receives strong damage. This is basically a counter but it has good ending lag so this is risky to use but the damage it gives worth the try.

Final Smash

Paper Mario summons the ruby stars and goes above on it out of sight. The camera will be centred and fixed and the text at the bottom in TTYD font will say: "Draw around the enemy as many time as you can!" and a little ruby star appears in the centre of the screen. This acts like a cursor and you need to do circles around the enemies but the trick is if they touch your line, it will break but the cursor has a fast speed. You can do this for multiple enemies at once and doing will make the text "nice" or such appears. The damage is strong and has a lot of knock back that has a hight chance of KO on decent percentage. After 30 seconds, the final smash ends.

Situations moves

Get up: little jump which acts like an uppercut.
Edge: While getting on the edge, He smack his wooden hammer on the ground near.

Dodge moves
Shield:
Paper Mario duck and cover in a ball.
Rolling Dodge: He folds himself into a tube to role.
Sidestep Dodge: He turns himself from his side and dodge which makes him almost invisible.
Air dodge: Paper Mario goes slightly into the background while moving slowly in the direction pressed (in a paper fashion).

Animations

Entrance: He enters on the stage by flipping into the dimension.
Stance: Practically no movement and the eyes blink from times to time.
Idle: Yawn followed by snoring while looking asleep.
Walk: Only his feet moves in walking speed.
Run: Same as walk but his feet move 2x faster with a while smoke trail behind.
Crouch: Folds slightly into himself.
Jump: Exactly like mario but the second involves him folding a little while spinning.
Hurts: On one foot and his face behind looks like he's hurt.
Laying down: On his belly, face on the ground.
Swimming: He transforms into a boat and comes back to normal after jumping.

Taunts

Side Taunt: Paper Mario makes a thumbs up and face the camera.
Up Taunt: He wags his finger from left to right.
Down Taunt: He wags his hand and a heart comes near him (appeal from ttyd).

Victory and defeat
Victory Theme
: Battle Victory from TTYD
Victory 1: While giving a thumbs up, and his partner being happy, the text "You got 50 star points!" appears and then, they walk in place.
Victory 2: He and his partner appeal to the crowd and we could hear cheers from the crowd.
Victory 3: Paper Mario raise the diamond star with all his partners surrounding him and cheering him.
Defeat: He and his partner run in place to run away but they fell on the ground head first after trying.

Extra

Codec: If you press on the D pad left and right several times while Goombella is your partner on the Paper Mario stage with one opponent, Goombella makes a bubble of text appears and she describes the opponent while still having some humour. She will also tell the percentage the foe has.
Footstool: if Paper Mario footstool someone, he will rceive a tiny amount of damage (even less than his neutral aerial). It's just a little reference not designed to be one of his main attacks.
[/collapse]

This is just an instance and you tell me after that he's "just another mario"...

I really wish this argument would die this is the "ridley is too big" all over again.
 
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Spinosaurus

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Junior is the main villain of he NSMB series. He has more boss fights and prominence than Bowser AND shares the final boss fight with him in all games except for NSMB2.
"Shared role" for main villain maybe is more like it, but he is still technically a main villain.
 

Rockaphin

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Junior is the main villain of he NSMB series. He has more boss fights and prominence than Bowser AND shares the final boss fight with him in all games except for NSMB2.
I still think Bowser is the main antagonist. Bowser is the "big bad" guy after all. Bowser Jr. is next in line.
 

Oblivion129

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I think other series should have their main villains (Metroid and DK) before Mario gets a secondary villain.
 

Floor

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I think other series should have their main villains (Metroid and DK) before Mario gets a secondary villain.
I'm in agreement. Unfortunately, things don't look the best for Wolf, my Brawl main.
 

Shorts

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I think other series should have their main villains (Metroid and DK) before Mario gets a secondary villain.
This shouldn't be a reason not to include Junior, because let's face it the series will never be evenly balanced. We will probably never see Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow in Smash Bros, even though they should be.
 

*The Sensus Crustulum*

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I would rather have Paper Mario. He has a ton of move set potential all from his 4 games (Partners, Dimension Flipping, Stickers). I would love to see him.

I wouldn't mind Junior though, as he can use his Paintbrush, Clown Copter etc. I wouldn't mind if either are choosed, just prefer Paper Mario.
 
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Dedede Fan!!!

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I am a robot king. Super king. I have all the powers of super man, and a king. also, I can extend my arms

But seriously, you do understand why people thought you mean bayleef? Not only the incorrect pokemon, but then you waited days to post again.

While Gen 3 starters have slightly more of a chance, most people 'round here will still dislike that option, as the common opinion is there will be 2 more pokemon in the game, jigglypuff and mewtwo.

of course, I don't speak for everyone. Your roster just had a bunch of choices on it that I thought were odd in general, and you left out a few characters I like, which is why I didn't like it, personally.
Lets stop arguing, OK? Sorry about that. And, would the moderaters please add gen.3 icons?
 

Leafeon523

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I've seen so many roster predictions that I thought it might me fun to make a roster of potential new assist trophies.
Mario: Bowser Jr., Chain Chomp, Nabbit
Zelda: Groose, Skull Kid, Midna
Metroid: mother brain, dark samus
Kirby: Bandana Dee
DK: Cranky Kong
Pikmin: Louie
Punch-out: Glass Joe
Fire Emblem: Frederick (Nope, absolutely no bias here)
Animal Crossing: Isabella
Kid Icarus: Magnus, Eggplant Wizard
Wario: Ashley, Mona
Sonic: Tails
Mega man: Elec Man
Other: Dillon, Color-TV game 15, Rhythm wrestler, Matthew, Chibi-robo, Tempo
Cuts: Lakitu, Helirin, Gray Fox, Isaac
What do you guys think?
 

Morbi

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I've seen so many roster predictions that I thought it might me fun to make a roster of potential new assist trophies.
Mario: Bowser Jr., Chain Chomp, Nabbit
Zelda: Groose, Skull Kid, Midna
Metroid: mother brain, dark samus
Kirby: Bandana Dee
DK: Cranky Kong
Pikmin: Louie
Punch-out: Glass Joe
Fire Emblem: Frederick (Nope, absolutely no bias here)
Animal Crossing: Isabella
Kid Icarus: Magnus, Eggplant Wizard
Wario: Ashley, Mona
Sonic: Tails
Mega man: Elec Man
Other: Dillon, Color-TV game 15, Rhythm wrestler, Matthew, Chibi-robo, Tempo
Cuts: Lakitu, Helirin, Gray Fox, Isaac
What do you guys think?
I wanted Groose, Bandanna Dee, and Cranky Kong to be playable though! :(

No Star Fox characters? I mean... not even Krystal (even though I want her playable as well)?

As for Fire Emblem, I would prefer someone like Anna. Someone more notable (even though Frederick was my favorite).

Other than that, it is a pretty cool list. I mean, Groose and Cranky are all cool. I was mostly joking about wanting them (but I do want them).
 

Jerry Applesauce

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Lol at Groose. Does your idea involve the Groosenator? If so, I approve.

Also for the Punch-Out rep I think someone more like Aran Ryan or Mr. Sandman would be more suitable. Aaron plays dirty with his glove-on-a-rope and Mr. Sandman is just plain tough.
 

Hot Uncle Sparky

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I've seen so many roster predictions that I thought it might me fun to make a roster of potential new assist trophies.
Mario: Bowser Jr., Chain Chomp, Nabbit
Zelda: Groose, Skull Kid, Midna
Metroid: mother brain, dark samus
Kirby: Bandana Dee
DK: Cranky Kong
Pikmin: Louie
Punch-out: Glass Joe
Fire Emblem: Frederick (Nope, absolutely no bias here)
Animal Crossing: Isabella
Kid Icarus: Magnus, Eggplant Wizard
Wario: Ashley, Mona
Sonic: Tails
Mega man: Elec Man
Other: Dillon, Color-TV game 15, Rhythm wrestler, Matthew, Chibi-robo, Tempo
Cuts: Lakitu, Helirin, Gray Fox, Isaac
What do you guys think?
Groose isn't playable, I automatically hate it

Seems realistic; another Kirby and DK trophy, replace Glass Joe with King Hippo, and it looks good.
 
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Croph

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I always liked Bowser Jr. and I never really wanted him because the Mario series needs more villains or whatever (hell, it didn't even occur to me that he'd be a villain addition until now). I just like the character and moveset potential, especially if it involves the paintbrush. As long as he's different enough from Bowser, I'm good.

What I would love to see is a playable Junior in a mainline or non-sports/party Mario game. Especially if his gameplay is fun and uses paintbrush mechanics, whether a platformer or RPG or whatever genre, I'd really appreciate a playable Junior.
 

Leafeon523

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Lol at Groose. Does your idea involve the Groosenator? If so, I approve.

Also for the Punch-Out rep I think someone more like Aran Ryan or Mr. Sandman would be more suitable. Aaron plays dirty with his glove-on-a-rope and Mr. Sandman is just plain tough.
Of course it would involve the Grooseinator:awesome:
I chose Glass Joe to be a gag trophy along the lines of Starfy, but pretty much any boxer could fill the role of Punch-out AT.
Groose isn't playable, I automatically hate it

Seems realistic; another Kirby and DK trophy, replace Glass Joe with King Hippo, and it looks good.
If I had to go with another rep from these series, it would be Dixie and Adeline.
 
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wafflini

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Am i the only person who thinks that MetaKnight probably wont be returning? In my opinion, he was just so overpowered in brawl, that that stigma will carry over into the new game, and bring it a good deal of negative attention. I feel Sakurai knows this as well.
 

Morbi

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Am i the only person who thinks that MetaKnight probably wont be returning? In my opinion, he was just so overpowered in brawl, that that stigma will carry over into the new game, and bring it a good deal of negative attention. I feel Sakurai knows this as well.
No, he is just going to get severely nerfed. He isn't actually going to be cut.
 

Cobalsh

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Am i the only person who thinks that MetaKnight probably wont be returning? In my opinion, he was just so overpowered in brawl, that that stigma will carry over into the new game, and bring it a good deal of negative attention. I feel Sakurai knows this as well.
You must think Sakurai is lazy or stupid. But, hey, welcome to Smashboards.
 

Hot Uncle Sparky

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Am i the only person who thinks that MetaKnight probably wont be returning? In my opinion, he was just so overpowered in brawl, that that stigma will carry over into the new game, and bring it a good deal of negative attention. I feel Sakurai knows this as well.
A slight nerf is all he needs, people would be more upset about an imbalance than a nerfing.
 

Will

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If Meta Knight was nerfed,wouldn't that take away his speed a bit?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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If Meta Knight was nerfed,wouldn't that take away his speed a bit?
Meta Knight isn't all that fast in Return to Dream Land, but that's mostly because he was actually running, instead of gliding. Amusingly, even though he was a menace in Brawl, Meta Knight was a rather poor character in Return to Dream Land, since he takes much longer to defeat bosses than the other playable characters.
 

wafflini

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You must think Sakurai is lazy or stupid. But, hey, welcome to Smashboards.
I don't think that he is stupid, i just feel that doing so would hinder popularity with people. In fact, i actually think Sakurai is smart for realizing this (assuming im right).

A slight nerf is all he needs, people would be more upset about an imbalance than a nerfing.
I disagree. I hate to see old characters nerfed.
 

Louie G.

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You may hate to see old characters nerfed, but it's simply something that happens to all characters who are overpowered in certain areas. Olimar was nerfed, and characters like Kirby and Dedede were buffed.
Meta Knight is too important of a character to cut, being one of the key characters to Sakurai's own creation.

And cutting Meta Knight would cause far worse backlash than keeping him in unchanged.
 

wafflini

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Then you must hate Olimar.
Actually, Olimar was one of the characters i used when i was first starting to get good at the game so i am a little partial to him, but i still am quite excited for the change. I do really enjoy the idea of nixing the random pikmin gen. That was a bit annoying. On top of that, to me it seems like less pikmin, with a similarly high tier Olimar means stronger pikmin, so i am not really bothered.

You'd rather see them cut?
As long as they are not an original, than honestly, yeah. It is nice to get a change, and i would rather they kill the character off at its highest point than drag its life into some miserable existence in low tier. Don't ruin their legacy.
 

MargnetMan23

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Doesn't Sakurai have a quote saying that he doesn't want to nerf the best aspects of a character or move but tweak them instead? (something about Falcon Punch I think) I'd think Meta Knight's speed would probably stay intact for the most part.

EDIT: and does a nerf automatically imply that they're going to be low tier? Maybe Sakurai would just nerf Meta Knight so that he's like, Marth levels of good instead of god levels of good.
 
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Pacack

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Doesn't Sakurai have a quote saying that he doesn't want to nerf the best aspects of a character or move but tweak them instead? (something about Falcon Punch I think) I'd think Meta Knight's speed would probably stay intact for the most part.
His running speed would probably stay the same, but his priority has to be nerfed some. He can still be fast, just not faster than every other character in the game. That's the main reason he was so broken. (He could do with having less killing power on his moves as well.)
 
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Morbi

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Actually, Olimar was one of the characters i used when i was first starting to get good at the game so i am a little partial to him, but i still am quite excited for the change. I do really enjoy the idea of nixing the random pikmin gen. That was a bit annoying. On top of that, to me it seems like less pikmin, with a similarly high tier Olimar means stronger pikmin, so i am not really bothered.


As long as they are not an original, than honestly, yeah. It is nice to get a change, and i would rather they kill the character off at its highest point than drag its life into some miserable existence in low tier. Don't ruin their legacy.
I am known for maining characters with ruined legacies. I would hate it if my character got cut based on a nerf that only applies to a competitive meta-game.
 

MargnetMan23

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His running speed would probably stay the same, but his priority has to be nerfed. He can still be fast, just not faster than every other character in the game.
Hm, of all mechanics of Smash Bros, priority is one of the ones that I'm the least familiar with...
 

Leafeon523

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but his priority has to be nerfed. He can still be fast, just not faster than every other character in the game.
I feel like this is taken from a talonflame discussion on a Pokémon X and Y competitive battling site...
 

Jerry Applesauce

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I'm guessing he's talking about attack priority. Like for example, Pit's Upperdash Arm being prioritized over Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, or Little Mac's punches being prioritized over Bowser's side attack or Samus' forward aerial.
 

Louie G.

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Again, Meta Knight may have been overpowered in Brawl, but he is an important and popular Nintendo character. He's worth the time and effort of nerfing. Also, referring to Brawl's priority list, he was the most prioritized newcomer next to Wario. Cutting him is unlikely since he is likely a high priority character again. Also important to mention...
image.jpg

An image Sakurai drew during very early development of Smash 4.
I would think all of the characters included were being worked on at the time, or at the very least planned to be in the game. A character like Meta Knight has no way of being cut from the get go, and being high priority I doubt time constraints would hurt him at all. Factor Halberd's return into that and you have a character with virtually no chance of being cut.
 
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