Character Discussion Thread

[Cpt.]

I'm doubting Mewtwo.

MAKE ME DOUBT HIM LESS PLEASE!

Well this is before Greninja, but it's still valid.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Can we really have three Pokemon characters with a chargeable B standard?

Oh, the joys of fearful speculation.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Your hope is but only in the word of Sakurai: "We are thinking about it."

Since Sakurai went with the fan-favorite/most represented version of Mega Charizard, I'm guessing that if Mewtwo is in he'll turn into Mega Mewtwo Y for his Final Smash.

Mega Evolutions for half the Pokemon characters. Good lord.

6th Gen becomes the new 1st Gen in terms of over representation. Quite sad when everyone complains about wanting new characters, yet people want the Brawl +Mewtwo for Pokemon roster....until Greninja

 

[Deleted member]

Solution: Don't give Mewtwo Shadow Ball again.

 

[Cpt.]

Can we really have three Pokemon characters with a chargeable B standard?

Oh, the joys of fearful speculation.

Yes. They all have a unique neutral B.

Mewtwo: wave movement and knockback

Lucario: aura sphere changes size and damage

Greninja: mult-ihit shuriken

 

[FlareHabanero]

Can we really have three Pokemon characters with a chargeable B standard?

Why is this a problem?

 

[Cpt.]

Can we really have three Space Animals with reflectors?

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Well there are 9 new Gen VI Pokeball Pokemon plus Greninja...I say that's fair enough. They got some Black & White representation as well as the most important Pokeball Pokemon from Gen I-III there. I say it's a great balance of old and new.

Hmmmm...so if Mewtwo gets in...is it the bipedal brotherhood? Neutral B Nasties?

 

[Morbi]

Can we really have three Space Animals with reflectors?

We really had three Space Animals with reflectors in Brawl, so precedent dictates that we really can.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I really like the Miis actually. But I don't want them playable in Smash, as likely as I think they are.

We can easily get six Pokemon characters. We had six in Brawl, just three of them using the same slot. The amount of slots won't have any effect on how many characters Pokemon will get this time around.

And for Mewtwo itself: It has been very heavily promoted for X/Y, and is most requested character worldwide.

 

[Cpt.]

We really had three Space Animals with reflectors in Brawl, so precedent dictates that we really can.

Exactly.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Can we really have three Space Animals with reflectors?

They can use Landmasters

 

[Deleted member]

We really had three Space Animals with reflectors in Brawl, so precedent dictates that we really can.

But yeah, to avoid getting in trouble with the mods for making a gif only post, let me show you how to take care of your "charagable Neutral Special" thing.

No charge needed.

 

[Cpt.]

But yeah, to avoid getting in trouble with the mods for making a gif only post, let me show you how to take care of your "charagable Neutral Special" thing.

No charge needed.

But really though, Mewtwo is so beast that his neutral special attack should be a full shadow ball. Plus it would make up for his low tier in Melee ))))! (if only)

 

[Morbi]

But yeah, to avoid getting in trouble with the mods for making a gif only post, let me show you how to take care of your "charagable Neutral Special" thing.

No charge needed.

I seriously need to put a disclaimer in my signature or something that indicates that I am prone to not understand any and all jokes. Seriously, this is the fourth time that this has happened to me this week. I am pathetic at discerning jokes.

But yeah, I would enjoy it if Mewtwo's neutral special was just an automatic blast, at the very least, it could be a move-set customization element.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Please tell me we're not really going to complain about chargeable projectiles, because characters do share properties with each other regardless. If you don't believe what I'm saying, count the number of characters that use a sex kick as their neutral aerial, a meteor smash as their down aerial, characters that have a jab-to-consecutive attack as their neutral attack, characters that have a down tilt that is a low leg sweep, and characters that kick backwards as their back aerial.

 

[shrooby]

Please tell me we're not really going to complain about chargeable projectiles, because characters do share properties with each other regardless. If you don't believe what I'm saying, count the number of characters that use a sex kick as their neutral aerial, a meteor smash as their down aerial, characters that have a jab-to-consecutive attack as their neutral attack, characters that have a down tilt that is a low leg sweep, and characters that kick backwards as their back aerial.

Those aren't special attacks. They don't matter.

 

[Pizzanigs]

I still don't know about Mewtwo. I often find myself doubting his appearance, especially since Greninja has been confirmed.

 

[Morbi]

I still don't know about Mewtwo. I often find myself doubting his appearance, especially since Greninja has been confirmed.

I would not worry about Mewtwo (and I don't); there is not a feasible correlation between Greninja and Mewtwo. There is nothing going against him and everything going for him. Precedent actually makes the slots argument negligible as it is. The only people that believe otherwise fallaciously believe that Mario NEEDS more "reps" before Mewtwo is included. Obviously there is not a lot of logic to support that notion.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I still don't know about Mewtwo. I often find myself doubting his appearance, especially since Greninja has been confirmed.

Why though? The two are nothing alike, and there will probably be at least one hidden Pokémon.
It makes sense to save Mewtwo for last, to generate a big hype boost near release (even if he isn't revealed until after), along with a few other characters.

Brawl had six Pokémon, and SSB4's roster will likely be bigger than Brawl's, therefore it will be less likely to look like there are "too many" Pokémon. If either Jigglypuff or Mewtwo don't make the cut, there will be less than in Brawl.
Mario and Zelda could realistically have 6 reps each, as well. Each of the three series has enough viable characters.

 

[Bauske]

Mewtwo worries me too. I really really want him back, and he is one of the most highly requested characters to return, beating out most veteran and newcomer requests. He's an awesome character, a lot of fun, and one of the biggest faces in Pokemon, but I also feel like his chances of returning aren't as great as everyone is thinking. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

 

[Pizzanigs]

Another thing I worry about is a subject that was brought up before: Ganondorf's moveset. I'm seriously going to be so disappointed if he ends up being a CF clone again.

 

[Morbi]

My thoughts on Mewtwo:

1. Mewtwo is one of the most prominent Pokemon; he is obviously the most prevalent legendary to appear in the franchise lore as well. Fun fact, he is the first Pokemon to appear in the North American Pokemon opening.

2. This is an aspect of notion one, but Mewtwo has made the most major appearances in Pokemon movies, he has appeared as a main character in 2. The most recent being: Genesect the Legend Awakened which was released right around when many believe the roster to be finalized.

3. Mewtwo's Mega Evolution was the first to be revealed, this alludes to his marketing importance, Gamefreak clearly understands that he is a fan-favorite that incites hype. Not only was his Mega Evolution one of the most heavily advocated, but he has a second one. The only other Pokemon to have a second Mega Evolution is Charizard.

4. Mewtwo is the most requested character for Smash in general; requests don't yield much on their own, but they are a good indicator of popularity, and Sakurai is most certainly aware of this popularity.

5. Sakurai has actually addressed the prospect of playable Mewtwo, he was one of the only characters Sakurai has ever gone out of his way to mention. We might discern this as interest in the character.

6. Speaking of interest in the character, Mewtwo was planned for every single iteration of Smash, obviously outside circumstances prevented two of those appearances; nevertheless, his demand is ever so present.

7. Mewtwo was almost finished in Brawl according to the code, as such; we should objectively treat him as though he was a Melee veteran. He is just as safe as any other Melee veteran. Mewtwo was to be included from Melee to Brawl, there was LITERALLY nothing going for him, but he was still planned. As of current, from Brawl to Smash 4, he is the overt marketing Pokemon.

8. Pokemon Origins; it was evidence for solo Charizard, it is evidence for Mewtwo. Mewtwo was a big part of this promotional special, speaking about specials, he was present in three. This is more than any other Pokemon.

9. He returns as a primary legendary in Pokemon X and Y; people used to argue that Lucario's Mega Evolution didn't matter, but it obviously did. Mewtwo is in his traditional pose in a cave. Something iconic to his character in regards to the game. This promotes the best-selling 3DS title. One might argue that X and Y are already represented through Greninja and Mega Evolutions. But Mewtwo is still an aspect of the game.

10. No other Pokemon is as important and unique; there are no more ideal choices (aside from Meowth, who was de-confirmed). He is the only missing piece, a piece that was never intended to be missing. The priority list is not stagnant. Believe it or not, things change in 6 years. Clearly, for Mewtwo, things have changed for the better. His staggering importance is just as observable as it was when he was in his prime.

11. The Greninja trailer was not the proverbial “nail in the coffin,” it is actually evidence in favor of Mewtwo. Greninja was missing his webbed appendages and his pelvic fin, it is apparent that the trailer was intended to be ambiguous and incite suspicions about Mewtwo.

12. He follows Sakurai’s arbitrary criteria. The character would obviously correlate to more sales, the character is vastly unique, the character contributes to the game’s balance, and the character fits into the Smash Brothers Universe. It is established that he closely follows this criteria as he was intended for every title; present in one, and he is clearly the definitive example of Sakurai’s criteria.

After that, there is the one subjective piece of evidence that lingers in the minds of Smash speculators, the slots argument. However, as precedent thoroughly establishes, we were going to have seven Pokemon six years ago. So it is fallacious to disregard Mewtwo in Smash 4 as that would only entail six Pokemon characters (as opposed to the seven) which is what we objectively got last time. So the “reasonable” argument against his inclusion is that Mario arbitrarily needs more “representatives” to justify the extra slot that Pokemon would obtain. Precedent thoroughly refutes this sentiment yet again.

I can not see Sakurai not at the very least considering him, actually, he already confirmed that he is at the very least considering him. The real question is whether or not his merit will actualize into something more. I believe that if Greninja could make it, Mewtwo can as well.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I'm doubting Mewtwo.

MAKE ME DOUBT HIM LESS PLEASE!

Clearly we aren't going to get Mewtwo.

We're going to get another X/Y rep because of arbitrary patterns saying that we need to have two new Pokemon reps each game.
The new Pokemon is Goodra, and Jigglypuff is taking the last slot from Mewtwo again, please understand.

 

[Morbi]

Another thing I worry about is a subject that was brought up before: Ganondorf's moveset. I'm seriously going to be so disappointed if he ends up being a CF clone again.

Unfortunately; I fear that you may be disappointed. Ganondorf is more likely than not going to be vastly different, but he will probably still feel like a clone. He will most likely still share several moves with Captain Falcon. But I am certain that he will get better, draw some inspiration from his games, etc.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

Mewtwo worries me too. I really really want him back, and he is one of the most highly requested characters to return, beating out most veteran and newcomer requests. He's an awesome character, a lot of fun, and one of the biggest faces in Pokemon, but I also feel like his chances of returning aren't as great as everyone is thinking. Here's hoping I'm wrong.

(Decided I might as well turn the thought I was editing into my previous post into a new post instead of repeatedly editing the old post...)


Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, Mewtwo is literally the single most popular Pokémon not already confirmed to be in the game, and the Pokémon Company must be aware of that. They already seem to think he sells games. Who was the first Pokémon they used to showcase Mega Evolution? Mewtwo.
What single Pokémon character has already been in a Smash Bros game, is requested internationally to return to Smash Bros, has starred in two movies, and is known to Pokémon fans young and old?
I'll give you three hints.
1. This Pokémon was cloned from Mew and is called Mewtwo.
2. It's Mewtwo.
3. Mewtwo is the answer and has a better chance at being in Smash Bros. than most other characters.

I can't think of a single reason why they would intentionally ignore an opportunity to promote both SSB4 and X/Y.

PS- I am not being sarcastic to be mean. I'm using humor to encourage you not to doubt a character's chances because another character from the same series was confirmed first. If he doesn't make the cut it's because of some bizarre game developer logic reason that I could not fully understand.

Edit: Although it looks like most of what I was writing (and then some) has already been stated in the time that I was writing it.

 

[Morbi]

(Decided I might as well turn the thought I was editing into my previous post into a new post instead of repeatedly editing the old post...)


Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, Mewtwo is literally the single most popular Pokémon not already confirmed to be in the game, and the Pokémon Company must be aware of that. They already seem to think he sells games. Who was the first Pokémon they used to showcase Mega Evolution? Mewtwo.
What single Pokémon character has already been in a Smash Bros game, is requested internationally to return to Smash Bros, has starred in two movies, and is known to Pokémon fans young and old?
I'll give you three hints.
1. This Pokémon was cloned from Mew and is called Mewtwo.
2. It's Mewtwo.
3. Mewtwo is the answer and has a better chance at being in Smash Bros. than most other characters.

I can't think of a single reason why they would intentionally ignore an opportunity to promote both SSB4 and X/Y.

PS- I am not being sarcastic to be mean. I'm using humor to encourage you not to doubt a character's chances because another character from the same series was confirmed first. If he doesn't make the cut it's because of some bizarre game developer logic reason that I could not fully understand.

The only legitimate reason would be development complications, such as what happened last time. However, I highly doubt another 3rd party character would randomly out-prioritize Mewtwo once again.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

The only legitimate reason would be development complications, such as what happened last time. However, I highly doubt another 3rd party character would randomly out-prioritize Mewtwo once again.

Agreed. However, as Sakurai and the game devs are clearly working very closely with the Pokémon Company, I find it very hard to believe Mewtwo would be given such low priority.

Side note, do we know whether the dev team is bigger this time? It seems like it should be, what with the collaborative effort between Nintendo and Bandai Namco and all. I'll have to look up development times, too. It just seems to me greater care is going into this project than prior games.

Edit:
"At a surprisingly sparsely attended Friday morning session (relatively speaking), Masahiro Sakurai detailed the development processes behind upcoming super smash hit, Super Smash Bros. Brawl. First, he apologized for the game's North American delay, saying "Reggie said he would make a whole lot of extra copies to make up for that." Well, thanks ... we guess?

First, he explained the construction of the team, saying they were "structured like mercenary horde." Since Sakurai works as a freelance designer (his company is really just two employees, including himself) he assembled the 100+ person team for Smash for this project, and not everyone was full-time. Moving onto the most obvious topic: character selection. With Smash's extensive roster, Sakurai said most of the characters were "finalized in planning documents" before production even began. One of the few exceptions was Sonic, says Sakurai. "To tell you the truth, the decision to include Sonic was not made until 2007." Apparently, even some Nintendo characters could not be included because of "rights issues" -- we're not sure which characters he may be referring to."
Source: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/22/gdc08-sakurai-on-super-smash-bros-brawl-development/

Interesting read so far. I don't usually read joystiq, I just found the article on google.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

How about we talk about something I've yet to see here (watch, this'll be something we've gone over 300 times): What do we think is the likelihood of a 6th Mario character, and who do we think it'd be?

Personally, I'd grade it at about a 50% chance, and pick Paper Mario as the 6th character. Hey, he isn't in my top 20! I should fix that!

 

[Bauske]

(Decided I might as well turn the thought I was editing into my previous post into a new post instead of repeatedly editing the old post...)


Furthermore, unless I'm mistaken, Mewtwo is literally the single most popular Pokémon not already confirmed to be in the game, and the Pokémon Company must be aware of that. They already seem to think he sells games. Who was the first Pokémon they used to showcase Mega Evolution? Mewtwo.
What single Pokémon character has already been in a Smash Bros game, is requested internationally to return to Smash Bros, has starred in two movies, and is known to Pokémon fans young and old?
I'll give you three hints.
1. This Pokémon was cloned from Mew and is called Mewtwo.
2. It's Mewtwo.
3. Mewtwo is the answer and has a better chance at being in Smash Bros. than most other characters.

I can't think of a single reason why they would intentionally ignore an opportunity to promote both SSB4 and X/Y.

PS- I am not being sarcastic to be mean. I'm using humor to encourage you not to doubt a character's chances because another character from the same series was confirmed first. If he doesn't make the cut it's because of some bizarre game developer logic reason that I could not fully understand.

Edit: Although it looks like most of what I was writing (and then some) has already been stated in the time that I was writing it.

Oh, I don't think he's a bad option at all. Quite the contrary. I was legitimately upset when he was cut from Brawl as he was one of my favorites in Melee. I'm just saying, given the history, it's not guaranteed he'll be in Smash 4, and that makes me sad.

 

[Morbi]

How about we talk about something I've yet to see here (watch, this'll be something we've gone over 300 times): What do we think is the likelihood of a 6th Mario character, and who do we think it'd be?

Personally, I'd grade it at about a 50% chance, and pick Paper Mario as the 6th character. Hey, he isn't in my top 20! I should fix that!

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 6th Mario representative. I suppose most people's hopes and dreams were crushed when Rosalina was revealed, and after that Waluigi's chance was slaughtered. So that only really leaves a few viable characters. Paper Mario would be one of them. The only other prominent one would be Bowser Jr. Reveals used to convince people that characters were playable, but Mario Kart 8 is associated with Wario as all hope seems to be lost for another Mario character.

 

[Deleted member]

Copy-pasting this from GameFAQs and I'm posting it here since it falls under speculation more than leak discussion.

Those who believe the Gematsu leak, do you think there's more newcomers or not?

This doesn't take into account Melee characters returning as they are unaffected by the two leaks.

I have see various topics discussing the Sal Romano/Gematsu leak. While I personally don't care for the leak (as not a single Nintendo newcomer I want is on it and the only newcomer I did want, Mega Man, got confirmed before I started to believe the leak), I strongly defend the leak's legitimacy and believe the information to be legitimate. So far, we have seen Sal Romano leak eleven characters; the first batch had Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man (the first four already confirmed) and the second batch had Pokemon from X & Y (Greninja), Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, and Chorus Men (Greninja is already confirmed). Should everyone from here be in, this along with Rosalina will bring us to twelve newcomers.

There's been discussion on whenever or not there's more coming as well as both sides giving their viewpoints. Personally, I'm 50/50 on the matter (my prediction roster does have Mach Rider and King K. Rool on it, but that's assuming there's more newcomers). On the one hand, twelve newcomers is plenty and at least match what the original game had, plus it's possible Sal Romano may have leaked the remaining newcomers at the Smash Direct so a hypothetical third leak might contain the remaining veterans. However, Melee and Brawl did have more newcomers, so it's not like more than twelve is anomalous for a Smash game. Plus with Rosalina not being part of either leak, it's possible that there may be newcomers that Sal Romano wasn't able to leak.

I'm curious to see what others think here. Do you think we're done, think we have a few more left, or are you just not sure?

 

[Morbi]

Copy-pasting this from GameFAQs and I'm posting it here since it falls under speculation more than leak discussion.

Those who believe the Gematsu leak, do you think there's more newcomers or not?

This doesn't take into account Melee characters returning as they are unaffected by the two leaks.

I have see various topics discussing the Sal Romano/Gematsu leak. While I personally don't care for the leak (as not a single Nintendo newcomer I want is on it and the only newcomer I did want, Mega Man, got confirmed before I started to believe the leak), I strongly defend the leak's legitimacy and believe the information to be legitimate. So far, we have seen Sal Romano leak eleven characters; the first batch had Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Mii, and Pac-Man (the first four already confirmed) and the second batch had Pokemon from X & Y (Greninja), Chrom, Shulk, Palutena, and Chorus Men (Greninja is already confirmed). Should everyone from here be in, this along with Rosalina will bring us to twelve newcomers.

There's been discussion on whenever or not there's more coming as well as both sides giving their viewpoints. Personally, I'm 50/50 on the matter (my prediction roster does have Mach Rider and King K. Rool on it, but that's assuming there's more newcomers). On the one hand, twelve newcomers is plenty and at least match what the original game had, plus it's possible Sal Romano may have leaked the remaining newcomers at the Smash Direct so a hypothetical third leak might contain the remaining veterans. However, Melee and Brawl did have more newcomers, so it's not like more than twelve is anomalous for a Smash game. Plus with Rosalina not being part of either leak, it's possible that there may be newcomers that Sal Romano wasn't able to leak.

I'm curious to see what others think here. Do you think we're done, think we have a few more left, or are you just not sure?

I am not sure if I believe the leak at this point in time, it is actually something that I wish to remain neutral on; however, I am a little biased against the leak. Assuming the leak is 100% true, I certainly expect more newcomers. Sal has leaked quite a few characters, but I personally surmised that Mewtwo and Ridley are in Smash 4. I do not necessarily having anything objective to support this notion, but I do expect Mewtwo based on the reasoning highlighted above whereas Ridley gets more into the logic behind Sakurai's decisions. Something I do not enjoy divulging in, but I am confident in my assumption.

So, yes. I expect more newcomers as a "believer" of the leak.

 

[Leafeon523]

*Walks into this forum*
*Sees another Gematsu leak discussion*
I'll return later.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

It's pretty late at night/early in the morning for people in the U.S. right now, I bet you change the topic if you wanted to.

 

[Kenith]

It's pretty late at night/early in the morning for people in the U.S. right now, I bet you change the topic if you wanted to.

Unless you're too busy passing these around, Frederick:

Spoiler

Spoiler tags recommended.

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Let's change the topic to Ray MK III. I back this 100%.

 

[Will]

It's pretty late at night/early in the morning for people in the U.S. right now, I bet you change the topic if you wanted to.

Unless you're too busy passing these around, Frederick:

k.

 

[Kenith]

I wouldn't call it a spoiler, considering how little effort would be needed to encounter that, but good idea. Don't forget to edit your post with my quote so my little efforts will have not been in vain.

That's not what I meant...

 

[Jerry Applesauce]

Crap. K, just delete all, spoiler tags and photos, I should not have posted that.

Ray MK III as a playable character, anyone?