Character Discussion Thread

[Starcutter]

Lucas doesn't have a threat of a replacement looming in terms of there being a new poster-boy. We can't say the same for Ike.

I don't think Ike is going to be cut, but in a flavor of the month series like Fire Emblem, I'd assume he'd be on the chopping block before Lucas ever is.

Ike:
+very popular in smash AND fire emblem
+unique moveset
+Importance in FE still significant, being one off the only FE characters to have descendants in awakening
+Roster size should allow 3 fire emblem reps
+2 games

-Fire emblem awakening character imminent.

Lucas
+star of only handheld mother game
+nobody could replace him from his own series

-Semi-clone
-Mother 3 isn't well liked in Japan, when only having Japanese release.
-franchise is pretty dead.
-1 game

For comparison let's check Roy and see why he might have been out prioritized to the point of being cut.

+ fire

-marth clone
-wasn't distinct at all but still managed to be worse than the source
-one game that was only released in Japan.


I think Lucas would be cut before Ike, but that's just me. I don't expect any cuts outside MAYBE snake, but Lucas would be out prioritized by Ike.

 

[Morbi]

Ike:
+very popular in smash AND fire emblem
+unique moveset
+Importance in FE still significant, being one off the only FE characters to have descendants in awakening
+Roster size should allow 3 fire emblem reps
+2 games

-Fire emblem awakening character imminent.

Lucas
+star of only handheld mother game
+nobody could replace him from his own series

-Semi-clone
-Mother 3 isn't well liked in Japan, when only having Japanese release.
-franchise is pretty dead.
-1 game

For comparison let's check Roy and see why he might have been out prioritized to the point of being cut.

+ fire

-marth clone
-wasn't distinct at all but still managed to be worse than the source
-one game that was only released in Japan.


I think Lucas would be cut before Ike, but that's just me. I don't expect any cuts outside MAYBE snake, but Lucas would be out prioritized by Ike.

Agreed. The only other plausible omission would be Ice Climbers (only if they were consistently causing problems in development, which seems unlikely).

 

[Starcutter]

Agreed. The only other plausible omission would be Ice Climbers (only if they were consistently causing problems in development, which seems unlikely).

I think if they were really having trouble with ice climbers they would only remove Nana.

Plus we already have the polar bear in smash run so I'm pretty sure they are back.

 

[Substitution]

-franchise is pretty dead.
-1 game

Can I just come up and say these don't mean much in the long run?
Do I have to mention the numerous franchises are haven't gotten a new game in forever?
And in terms of only one game, Ice Climbers say "Hi!". Heck, didn't Ness only appear in one game as well?

 

[Starcutter]

Can I just come up and say these don't mean much in the long run?
Do I have to mention the numerous franchises are haven't gotten a new game in forever?
And in terms of only one game, Ice Climbers say "Hi!". Heck, didn't Ness only appear in one game as well?

This was specifically to show why Ike would out prioritize Lucas. Not why Lucas would get cut.

 

[Morbi]

I think if they were really having trouble with ice climbers they would only remove Nana.

Plus we already have the polar bear in smash run so I'm pretty sure they are back.

That would be really interesting to see, just Popo. I am pretty sure they are back as well, but they would objectively be the most plausible omission if they were causing problems.

Can I just come up and say these don't mean much in the long run?
Do I have to mention the numerous franchises are haven't gotten a new game in forever?
And in terms of only one game, Ice Climbers say "Hi!". Heck, didn't Ness only appear in one game as well?

Yes; I believe Ness was.

 

[Muster]

+ fire

-marth clone
-wasn't distinct at all but still managed to be worse than the source
-one game that was only released in Japan.

While i do agree on your points, I think the part about roy is a bit off. I think it was BKupa who said that if a character doesn't make it in or is cut, we'll make up reasons as to why that happened, and when a character gets in, we'll also make up reasons for that to have happened as well. It's a certain kind of Sakurai-bias or something.

Also, franchise over=/=dead

Can I just come up and say these don't mean much in the long run?
Do I have to mention the numerous franchises are haven't gotten a new game in forever?
And in terms of only one game, Ice Climbers say "Hi!". Heck, didn't Ness only appear in one game as well?

The only one to come to america and the only one to be out around the time of smash 64.
It was also a success in japan land

 

[MargnetMan23]

Ike:
+very popular in smash AND fire emblem
+unique moveset
+Importance in FE still significant, being one off the only FE characters to have descendants in awakening
+Roster size should allow 3 fire emblem reps
+2 games

-Fire emblem awakening character imminent.

OK, I don't see how having a descendant makes him still very significant to the Fire Emblem series. He got like what, a descendant and some DLC, neither of which puts him much higher than other older lords in the series. You're missing an extremely obvious - point

-Doesn't have any particularly important role in Awakening and probably won't be seen again as a main character role for a considerable time.

I'm not saying that puts him below Lucas, but the points in Ike's favor seem kind of biased =P

 

[Morbi]

While i do agree on your points, I think the part about roy is a bit off. I think it was BKupa who said that if a character doesn't make it in or is cut, we'll make up reasons as to why that happened, and when a character gets in, we'll also make up reasons for that to have happened as well. It's a certain kind of Sakurai-bias or something.
To put it simpler: We try and attach reasons to designer decisions where there may not be reasons because of how the roster ended up being.

Also, franchise over=/=dead

The only one to come to america and the only one to be out around the time of smash 64.
It was also a success in japan land

I feel as though a franchise dies when it ends as there is nothing else to keep it relevant.

 

[Starcutter]

While i do agree on your points, I think the part about roy is a bit off. I think it was BKupa who said that if a character doesn't make it in or is cut, we'll make up reasons as to why that happened, and when a character gets in, we'll also make up reasons for that to have happened as well. It's a certain kind of Sakurai-bias or something.

Yeah, I'm sorry I couldn't think of positives for Roy. I don't know too much about him outside of smash

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I thought that Mother 3 was also a success in Japan?

 

[Substitution]

This was specifically to show why Ike would out prioritize Lucas. Not why Lucas would get cut.

But mind you.
What you're saying would imply that Lucas by some definition is near the chopping block. Which I honestly doubt.

I feel as though a franchise dies when it ends as there is nothing else to keep it relevant.

And yet somehow we have all these characters from "dead" franchises. Many we already expect to be back. What's with that?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

How about "Neither Lucas nor Ike get cut and all of you quit gripin'?"

 

[Morbi]

But mind you.
What you're saying would imply that Lucas by some definition is near the chopping block. Which I honestly doubt.


And yet somehow we have all these characters from "dead" franchises. Many we already expect to be back. What's with that?

Exactly, the franchises aren't dead in the case of Smash, Smash is what keeps them relevant. I was just generalizing.

 

[Substitution]

Exactly, the franchises aren't dead in the case of Smash, Smash is what keeps them relevant. I was just generalizing.

So then wouldn't Lucas be considered "relevant" then?

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

How about "Neither Lucas nor Ike get cut and all of you quit gripin'?"

Ideally, but come on.

Blue hair.

 

[Starcutter]

OK, I don't see how having a descendant makes him still very significant to the Fire Emblem series. He got like what, a descendant and some DLC, neither of which puts him much higher than other older lords in the series. You're missing an extremely obvious - point

-Doesn't have any particularly important role in Awakening and probably won't be seen again as a main character role for a considerable time.

I'm not saying that puts him below Lucas, but the points in Ike's favor seem kind of biased =P

When only marth and Ike have descendants I think it's important cause it shows the developers still care about Ike.


And give me a break it's really late here

 

[Morbi]

So then wouldn't Lucas be considered "relevant" then?

I didn't imply that he wasn't. I was advocating the opposite, there is no way Lucas is going to be omitted. He is probably low on the priority list, but I don't believe that will actualize into his removal. Quite the opposite, something that I express daily.

 

[Substitution]

When only marth and Ike have descendants I think it's important cause it shows the developers still care about Ike.

Maybe the Fire Emblem developers.
But does Sakurai care?

 

[Starcutter]

But mind you.
What you're saying would imply that Lucas by some definition is near the chopping block. Which I honestly doubt.

but he's not! I even said that in my post!

Ugh jeez come on man

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Maybe the Fire Emblem developers.
But does Sakurai care?

Well hopefully we all know that Roy's disclusion wasn't planned for Brawl, so Ike can still happen nonetheless

 

[Eight Melodies]

Lucas is cooler than Ike so he'll be back because I said it.

 

[MargnetMan23]

Now that I'm thinking more about cuts, the only 2 somewhat likely/possible cuts not named squirtle and ivysaur that I would particularly care about are Wolf and Jigglypuff. I'd somewhat miss some of the others that people constantly bring up like IC and R.O.B but I wouldn't really care at all if someone like Ike was cut. What I do know is that other people would care, and that's why I hope (and somewhat expect) there to be no cuts beyond squirtle, ivysaur, and possibly snake.

 

[Commander Claus]

This thread is hitting me in all the wrong places right now. I wouldn't mind both of them staying and cutting those who I personally don't like.

It's not gonna happen. I'm putting my vote on neither of them are getting cut.

 

[Morbi]

Now that I'm thinking more about cuts, the only 2 somewhat likely/possible cuts not named squirtle and ivysaur that I would particularly care about are Wolf and Jigglypuff. I'd somewhat miss some of the others that people constantly bring up like IC and R.O.B but I wouldn't really care at all if someone like Ike was cut. What I do know is that other people would care, and that's why I hope (and somewhat expect) there to be no cuts beyond squirtle, ivysaur, and possibly snake.

I honestly don't mind any cuts, I feel as though it is for the betterment of the roster. I just don't find excessive cuts feasible given Sakurai's direction.

 

[Starcutter]

Maybe the Fire Emblem developers.
But does Sakurai care?

You know I can't answer that.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Well hopefully we all know that Roy's disclusion wasn't planned for Brawl, so Ike can still happen nonetheless

Of course, why didn't I see it before...

Ike will be replaced by Roy!

 

[Muster]

Yeah, I'm sorry I couldn't think of positives for Roy. I don't know too much about him outside of smash

That's fine. (most people hate roy or love him anyway)

You know I can't answer that.

Doesn't Sakurai think of what a character can bring to the game? I'm sure we all know that Ike brings a bunch to the table.

Ideally, but come on.

Blue hair.

you can't make an original moveset out of a character with blue hair.

It's a scientifically proven fact.

 

[Starcutter]

This thread is hitting me in all the wrong places right now. I wouldn't mind both of them staying and cutting those who I personally don't like.

It's not gonna happen. I'm putting my vote on neither of them are getting cut.

I don't think either will be cut


I just really don't like the argument that Ike will get cut for chrom. Just cause it happened in brawl that Roy was outprioritized by basically everyone, doesn't mean that the same will happen for Ike, especially considering Ike's circumstances.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Well I just found out that Ike is gay, so now there's no way he'll ever get cut.

 

[Commander Claus]

I don't think either will be cut


I just really don't like the argument that Ike will get cut over chrom. Just cause it happened in brawl that Roy was outprioritized by basically everyone, doesn't mean that the same will happen for Ike, especially considering Ike's circumstances.

I totally agree with you on that. It's not a very good argument for why a character would get dropped, but as I'm reading comments around... A lot of things don't have good arguments.

Hell, I probably don't even have good arguments for things I want. So best case scenario we see the Lucas and Ike reveal at E3. plsgodpls

 

[Morbi]

I don't think either will be cut


I just really don't like the argument that Ike will get cut for chrom. Just cause it happened in brawl that Roy was outprioritized by basically everyone, doesn't mean that the same will happen for Ike, especially considering Ike's circumstances.

Precisely, there isn't a correlation between the two aside from the notion that they are both Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Joe D.]

A) This is assuming this is an aspect of the game that Sakurai directly oversaw. While he has said that oversees every aspect, it's likely that he himself didn't write all of the dialogue.
I suppose you could then argue that Sakurai could've said to the writers "Go nuts, but be sure to make Krystal say this," but I think it is just banter. I'd argue it's merely referring to the fact that Krystal has been seen fighting while Slipp and Peppy have not (excluding fighting while inside there Arwings I mean.) Krystal is, after all, the only one of them that has done actual on-screen direct combat.

B) This is assuming that the English translation caries the same meaning as the Japanese version.
I'd be curious to see the directly-translated dialogue, actually, if you can find 'em.

C) This is assuming that Sakurai does indeed leave "hints," which could just be unintentional on his part if he does indeed directly write every line of text and dialogue. And that these "hints" are always directly translated. (Or at least retain direct meaning.)
Specifically for Pit's trophy, "Will Pit ever fight again?" seems more like that it was simple observation that Kid Icarus came out more than ten years ago. Literally asking: "Hey, you know, this guy's game was a really long time ago...do you think he'll ever get another game?" Just like any other gamer would ask.

Interesting points, i'm actually going to look into those translations. However, I really do think it could be more than just banter, just for the reason that he oversees everything, and maybe that was his way of suggesting an inclusion, or just having some fun. Whatever the case, we won't know till the summer! (or sooner if she is actually included )

Also, you made a great point @False Sense on Sakurai's opinion from Brawl to Wii U/ 3DS. However, I think that if he was seriously suggesting a character, he wouldn't drop the idea if he technically, "made a promise." He has changed his mind in the past though, so it's a lot to consider.

The point is, as a personal fan for Krystal's inclusion, this topic always gives me a mixture of hope, and sadness. I will always try to stay optimistic until I know the truth. I really don't see a need to count her out yet, considering the little info on Star Fox, and the enigma of a mind of Mr. Sakurai.

 

[Eight Melodies]

you can't make an original moveset out of a character with blue hair.

It's a scientifically proven fact.

But Megaman has blue hair and nobody plays like him.

 

[MargnetMan23]

I don't think either will be cut


I just really don't like the argument that Ike will get cut over chrom. Just cause it happened in brawl that Roy was outprioritized by basically everyone, doesn't mean that the same will happen for Ike, especially considering Ike's circumstances.

Well, I don't think Ike's going to get cut because of Chrom, but when you word it as "cut over Chrom" I think it's almost guaranteed that that would happen if Chrom did make it in. Being outpriotized by everything is not the same thing as being outprioritized by one newcomer though.

 

[Commander Claus]

But Megaman has blue hair and nobody plays like him.

I actually never even knew that about him. I don't know anything about Megaman. Cannot deny the facts though.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

But Megaman has blue hair and nobody plays like him.

Holy **** you're right.

And even more damning:

 

[Starcutter]

Well, I don't think Ike's going to get cut because of Chrom, but when you word it as "cut over Chrom" I think it's almost guaranteed that that would happen if Chrom did make it in. Being outpriotized by everything is not the same thing as being outprioritized by one newcomer though.

I reworded my post a little before you posted.

There isn't a way EVER that Ike will be cut specifically for Chrom. There's room on the roster for three fire emblem characters, so Ike being cut would be utterly pointless and would be the worst decision for the roster.

 

[Muster]

But Megaman has blue hair and nobody plays like him.

It is also a scientific fact that blue hair lets you become so unoriginal that you absorb your opponents moves when you beat them instead of having an original moveset.

 

[Joe D.]

Holy **** you're right.

And even more damning:

BY GOD, THE EVIDENCE IS THERE IN PLAIN BLUE FONT.

WAIT, I'VE MADE A SHOCKING DISCOVERY.

MY LORD WE HAVE BEEN BLINDED BY THE FALSE IDEALS OF MAN AND HIS COWARDICE.