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Character Discussion Thread

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shrooby

Let me know when I'm supposed to laugh, okay?
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Hi everyone! It's been a few days since i've been here, but we had a discussion in a different forum that I wanted to bring up here. I'm not sure if it's been talked about yet, but it's an interesting tidbit nonetheless. Also, excuse me for going back to a Star Fox related discussion, I know I do it WAY too much, and it will be the last one for a while.

Ok, so does anybody remember the Lylat Cruise easter eggs? If you don't know, they were little codecs between all of the members of Star Fox, and Star Wolf that would start up when you did a repeated taunt as Fox, Falco, or Wolf. In one of these codecs, if you play as Falco, you will see a conversation between Fox, Krystal, Slippy, and Peppy, and they will talk about how the fight on screen.

At the end of the conversation, Slippy and Peppy argie that they want in on the action, but at the end, Krystal claims, "What are you two thinking? I'm the only one who could come theough in a fight like this!"

Now I know that it could be harmless banter, but it made me think: Mr. Sakurai has been known to leave hints for characters, ( take Pit's melee trophy,) and there was a time when Mr. Sakurai began work on the Star Fox franchise. What do you guys think? Could this be a pointless feature? Or even a poke at her inclusion? I'm curious to see some responses.

(CliffJumper, if you're going to respond to this, please give some reason other than what you've said before. I don't any more backlash on the subject.)
A) This is assuming this is an aspect of the game that Sakurai directly oversaw. While he has said that oversees every aspect, it's likely that he himself didn't write all of the dialogue.
I suppose you could then argue that Sakurai could've said to the writers "Go nuts, but be sure to make Krystal say this," but I think it is just banter. I'd argue it's merely referring to the fact that Krystal has been seen fighting while Slipp and Peppy have not (excluding fighting while inside there Arwings I mean.) Krystal is, after all, the only one of them that has done actual on-screen direct combat.

B) This is assuming that the English translation caries the same meaning as the Japanese version.
I'd be curious to see the directly-translated dialogue, actually, if you can find 'em.

C) This is assuming that Sakurai does indeed leave "hints," which could just be unintentional on his part if he does indeed directly write every line of text and dialogue. And that these "hints" are always directly translated. (Or at least retain direct meaning.)
Specifically for Pit's trophy, "Will Pit ever fight again?" seems more like that it was simple observation that Kid Icarus came out more than ten years ago. Literally asking: "Hey, you know, this guy's game was a really long time ago...do you think he'll ever get another game?" Just like any other gamer would ask.
 
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Cobalsh

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So many positive reviews of my roster I couldn't help but add an unlock list!
Prediction Roster Roster.png
 

NickerBocker

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I have no doubts that Krystal was at least considered for Smash, this one and Brawl. Of course, there is a large difference between being considered and actually being on the roster.

There are probably hundreds of considered characters, but it gets narrowed down over time to what the final roster is.
 

JamesDNaux

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Large roster time? Well I've already shown my roster, but I do still have a 55 character version.

Notes: Two DK newcomers in the form of Dixie and K. Rool. Happy Mask Salesman is a placeholder for either a Zelda newcomer or another surprise character. Krystal is also on here, so people can start crying about StarFox being "over represented." Jiggs is back, praise thy puff, Isaac is also another placeholder slot.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Wise words. I think perhaps a lot of people fall into the trap of deciding on a character first, then only looking at or interpreting information in a way that 'supports' their inclusion.

Personally I think the most likely list of Pokemon reps is the characters we've already seen + Jigglypuff. Cutting a three-game SSB veteran would be outrageous, and two newcomers for what is already one of the best represented series in Smash would seem out of proportion to me. If that Pokken Fighters thing turns out to be true, though, I'd definitely be up for seeing Sceptile in that.
No Mewtwo? Seriously, if Mega Man can get in by fan demand, so can Mewtwo, a character even MORE wanted.
 

Will

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So many positive reviews of my roster I couldn't help but add an unlock list!
View attachment 13865
GAH!

THE BEAUTY. I'VE BEEN BLINDED.

No but seriously,it's very good,I would only add a little tweak,making Mac unlockable,and switching Ike with Marth.

EDIT : I also think Lucario should be unlockable as well.
 
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Substitution

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So many positive reviews of my roster I couldn't help but add an unlock list!
View attachment 13865
Referring to unlockables:
Captain Falcon and Ness are mostly likely unlockable.
Replace Ike with Marth.
Wolf will most likely be unlockable.
Paper Mario should be added.
Chibi-Robo I'm debating on, but I'd say unlockable.
 

Louie G.

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You know you didn't have to make Marth unlockable. He's the face of Fire Emblem in Smash Bros, so just as Ness and Captain Falcon may be starter, Marth may be as well. But since all of them have been unlockable in the past I wouldn't be surprised to see it go either way. Honestly I see Marth as a starter over Ike.
Also I say Lucas should be unlockable. Mother shouldn't have two starters, and Ness is the face of the series and likely higher priority. Captain Falcon can be starter since F-Zero has no other characters.

And @ Will Will there's no way Mac is unlockable.
 

Rockaphin

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So, I was bored at work and decided to create this:

From multiple observations, this is the general "want" newcomers. I've looked at various forums, polls I've created, and fans that I personally know. I also tried to limit "guest" characters so you won't see characters like Goku or Shrek in C tier due to Miiverse. With that said, I'll explain each tier:
S+: I see these two everywhere and are always on top when compared to any other character.
S: Same as S but to a lessor extent. Mostly due to competition with other characters in the same franchise. By that, I mean that other characters in their franchise have a recognizable amount of support.
A: Even though K. Rool seems to be the favorite, Dixie Kong is no where near dead. She's just about on K. Rool's level. Takamaru seems to be the favorite "Retro" character. Chrom seems to be the favorite FE newcomer, but not by much.
A-: These characters almost reach A tier, but seem to not have as much support as those in A+. Robin almost ties with Chrom. Pac-Man seems to be the most wanted 3rd party rep.
B: These characters are very popular, but most face heavy competition with other characters. Especially Mario characters. Their support is very diverse and split but Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario seem to lead.
B-: Same with B, but face even more competition. Tingle has a huge hatebase yet is a very popular newcomer choice. Toad is usually overshadowed by Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario, but is a strong contender. If Palutena didn't exist, Medusa would probably be sitting in A tier. Tetra lost a lot of support after the disappearance of transformations. Roy seems to be one of the only Melee clones that is wanted back as well as being popular in Japan.
C: There's support here and there for these characters, but many are overshadowed by higher tier characters in their franchise.
D: Support but very rare. Shadow is extremely requested on Miiverse however, King Boo has his unique merits that some support, and Geno was heavily requested pre-Brawl, but none have a solid fanbase outside of what I've mentioned.
D-: I see a handful of people supporting these characters.
F: Basically the Melee clones that almost every one doesn't want back. Dr. Mario and Pichu actually have a serious gain over Young Link.
Remember that these are just what I've noticed and what you may have observed could be different.
 
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Pega-pony Princess

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So, I was bored at work and decided to create this:

From multiple observations, this is the general "want" newcomers. I've looked at various forums, polls I've created, and fans that I personally know. I also tried to limit "guest" characters so you won't see characters like Goku or Shrek in C tier due to Miiverse. With that said, I'll explain each tier:
S+: I see these two everywhere and are always on top when compared to any other character.
S: Same as S but to a lessor extent. Mostly due to competition with other characters in the same franchise. By that, I mean that other characters in their franchise have a recognizable amount of support.
A: Even though K. Rool seems to be the favorite, Dixie Kong is no where near dead. She's just about on K. Rool's level. Takamaru seems to be the favorite "Retro" character. Chrom seems to be the favorite FE newcomer, but not by much.
A-: These characters almost reach A tier, but seem to not have as much support as those in A+. Robin almost ties with Chrom. Pac-Man seems to be the most wanted 3rd party rep.
B: These characters are very popular, but most face heavy competition with other characters. Especially Mario characters. Their support is very diverse and split but Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario seem to lead.
B-: Same with B, but face even more competition. Tingle has a huge hatebase yet is a very popular newcomer choice. Toad is usually overshadowed by Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario, but is a strong contender. If Palutena didn't exist, Medusa would probably be sitting in A tier. Tetra lost a lot of support after the disappearance of transformations. Roy seems to be one of the only Melee clones that is wanted back as well as being popular in Japan.
C: There's support here and there for these characters, but many are overshadowed by higher tier characters in their franchise.
D: Support but very rare. Shadow is extremely requested on Miiverse however, King Boo has his unique merits that some support, and Geno was heavily requested pre-Brawl, but none have a solid fanbase outside of what I've mentioned.
D-: I see a handful of people supporting these characters.
F: Basically the Melee clones that almost every one doesn't want back. Dr. Mario and Pichu actually have a serious gain over Young Link.
Remember that these are just what I've noticed and what you may have observed could be different.
You put Shulk in the S tier? I approve.
 

NickerBocker

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So, I was bored at work and decided to create this:

From multiple observations, this is the general "want" newcomers. I've looked at various forums, polls I've created, and fans that I personally know. I also tried to limit "guest" characters so you won't see characters like Goku or Shrek in C tier due to Miiverse. With that said, I'll explain each tier:
S+: I see these two everywhere and are always on top when compared to any other character.
S: Same as S but to a lessor extent. Mostly due to competition with other characters in the same franchise. By that, I mean that other characters in their franchise have a recognizable amount of support.
A: Even though K. Rool seems to be the favorite, Dixie Kong is no where near dead. She's just about on K. Rool's level. Takamaru seems to be the favorite "Retro" character. Chrom seems to be the favorite FE newcomer, but not by much.
A-: These characters almost reach A tier, but seem to not have as much support as those in A+. Robin almost ties with Chrom. Pac-Man seems to be the most wanted 3rd party rep.
B: These characters are very popular, but most face heavy competition with other characters. Especially Mario characters. Their support is very diverse and split but Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario seem to lead.
B-: Same with B, but face even more competition. Tingle has a huge hatebase yet is a very popular newcomer choice. Toad is usually overshadowed by Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario, but is a strong contender. If Palutena didn't exist, Medusa would probably be sitting in A tier. Tetra lost a lot of support after the disappearance of transformations. Roy seems to be one of the only Melee clones that is wanted back as well as being popular in Japan.
C: There's support here and there for these characters, but many are overshadowed by higher tier characters in their franchise.
D: Support but very rare. Shadow is extremely requested on Miiverse however, King Boo has his unique merits that some support, and Geno was heavily requested pre-Brawl, but none have a solid fanbase outside of what I've mentioned.
D-: I see a handful of people supporting these characters.
F: Basically the Melee clones that almost every one doesn't want back. Dr. Mario and Pichu actually have a serious gain over Young Link.
Remember that these are just what I've noticed and what you may have observed could be different.
I would put Bomberman higher. People want him but are afraid that would mean Snake will be cut. At least, over in the Rate Their Chances thread, Bomberman is in the top 10 for want.

Other than that its pretty solid. My only other changes besides Bomberman would be very minor.
 
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kylexv

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SSB4 Large Roster Predictions Roster.png


Large Rosters, eh? Decided to have a go at a 55 character roster. Note that this roster suggests that the Gematsu Leak is correct. I am going to put an explanation for each Newcomers not in the leak.

The Trophy Theory:

Yes, I'm bringing this back. The theory suggests that each series that had a trophy in the direct will get a new character. Trophies of Tiki from Fire Emblem: Awekening, Pseudo Palutena from Kid Icarus: Uprising, Fi from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, and King Kihunter from the Metroid series were shown.

Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem already have a newcomer in the Gematsu Leak: Palutena and Chrom respectively.
Metroid: The only key Metroid characters not disconfirmed yet are Ridley and Anthony Higgs. Anthony did not play a huge role in Other M, so Ridley is the best choice here.
Zelda: Fi is from Skyward Sword, so a character from that game is likely. Ghirahim seems like the best choice here, as Demise would play too much like Ganondorf and Groose is too weird.

Other Newcomers:

Mewtwo: With Mewtwo being one of two Pokemon with two Mega Evolutions (The other being Charizard, who has been confirmed solo already.), Mewtwo seems like the perfect sixth Pokemon. Plus, Brawl had six Pokemon, so having six in Smash 4 is out of the realm of possibility.
Paper Mario: If there's six Zelda characters and six Pokemon characters, why not six Mario characters? Since Toad is still Peach B move, Waluigi is disconfirmed, and Bowser Jr. seems like he's grounded, Paper Mario seems like the best bet.
Dixie Kong: I think a third DK rep is likely, like MANY other people here. I think Dixie is more likely than K. Rool due to relevance and adding more females.
Isaac: One of the few old AT's left after the AT massacre. Isaac seems the best pick than other survivors like Tingle and Advance Wars.
Bandanna Dee: Waddle Dee throw is gone. Also, even though Waddle Dees are in Smash Run, Dee beat up them in Return to Dream Land. Also, Bandanna Dee is now his new official English name, seperating him from the other Dees.

Gematsu Leak:

Chorus Men
Shulk
Mii
Pac-Man
Chrom
Palutena
 

Niala

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View attachment 13870

Large Rosters, eh? Decided to have a go at a 55 character roster. Note that this roster suggests that the Gematsu Leak is correct. I am going to put an explanation for each Newcomers not in the leak.

The Trophy Theory:

Yes, I'm bringing this back. The theory suggests that each series that had a trophy in the direct will get a new character. Trophies of Tiki from Fire Emblem: Awekening, Pseudo Palutena from Kid Icarus: Uprising, Fi from The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, and King Kihunter from the Metroid series were shown.

Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem already have a newcomer in the Gematsu Leak: Palutena and Chrom respectively.
Metroid: The only key Metroid characters not disconfirmed yet are Ridley and Anthony Higgs. Anthony did not play a huge role in Other M, so Ridley is the best choice here.
Zelda: Fi is from Skyward Sword, so a character from that game is likely. Ghirahim seems like the best choice here, as Demise would play too much like Ganondorf and Groose is too weird.

Other Newcomers:

Mewtwo: With Mewtwo being one of two Pokemon with two Mega Evolutions (The other being Charizard, who has been confirmed solo already.), Mewtwo seems like the perfect sixth Pokemon. Plus, Brawl had six Pokemon, so having six in Smash 4 is out of the realm of possibility.
Paper Mario: If there's six Zelda characters and six Pokemon characters, why not six Mario characters? Since Toad is still Peach B move, Waluigi is disconfirmed, and Bowser Jr. seems like he's grounded, Paper Mario seems like the best bet.
Dixie Kong: I think a third DK rep is likely, like MANY other people here. I think Dixie is more likely than K. Rool due to relevance and adding more females.
Isaac: One of the few old AT's left after the AT massacre. Isaac seems the best pick than other survivors like Tingle and Advance Wars.
Bandanna Dee: Waddle Dee throw is gone. Also, even though Waddle Dees are in Smash Run, Dee beat up them in Return to Dream Land. Also, Bandanna Dee is now his new official English name, seperating him from the other Dees.

Gematsu Leak:

Chorus Men
Shulk
Mii
Pac-Man
Chrom
Palutena
I actually like this a lot, it's an interesting way of looking at it. Although, I'll admit, I don't suspect we'll be receiving 55 characters, but if the roster were to end up like this, I doubt I could have asked for more.
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
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So, I was bored at work and decided to create this:

From multiple observations, this is the general "want" newcomers. I've looked at various forums, polls I've created, and fans that I personally know. I also tried to limit "guest" characters so you won't see characters like Goku or Shrek in C tier due to Miiverse. With that said, I'll explain each tier:
S+: I see these two everywhere and are always on top when compared to any other character.
S: Same as S but to a lessor extent. Mostly due to competition with other characters in the same franchise. By that, I mean that other characters in their franchise have a recognizable amount of support.
A: Even though K. Rool seems to be the favorite, Dixie Kong is no where near dead. She's just about on K. Rool's level. Takamaru seems to be the favorite "Retro" character. Chrom seems to be the favorite FE newcomer, but not by much.
A-: These characters almost reach A tier, but seem to not have as much support as those in A+. Robin almost ties with Chrom. Pac-Man seems to be the most wanted 3rd party rep.
B: These characters are very popular, but most face heavy competition with other characters. Especially Mario characters. Their support is very diverse and split but Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario seem to lead.
B-: Same with B, but face even more competition. Tingle has a huge hatebase yet is a very popular newcomer choice. Toad is usually overshadowed by Bowser Jr. or Paper Mario, but is a strong contender. If Palutena didn't exist, Medusa would probably be sitting in A tier. Tetra lost a lot of support after the disappearance of transformations. Roy seems to be one of the only Melee clones that is wanted back as well as being popular in Japan.
C: There's support here and there for these characters, but many are overshadowed by higher tier characters in their franchise.
D: Support but very rare. Shadow is extremely requested on Miiverse however, King Boo has his unique merits that some support, and Geno was heavily requested pre-Brawl, but none have a solid fanbase outside of what I've mentioned.
D-: I see a handful of people supporting these characters.
F: Basically the Melee clones that almost every one doesn't want back. Dr. Mario and Pichu actually have a serious gain over Young Link.
Remember that these are just what I've noticed and what you may have observed could be different.
I think this is a good start, but that it's being very, very generous to many characters, probably due to the inclusion of pluses and minuses. I'll have to design a list of my own some time.
 

Rockaphin

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I'm open to suggestions and I'll be making another soon. Thanks for all the feed back.
 

BKupa666

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Okay, here's my own list of popularity. I'm just spitballing here, it's not perfect or comprehensive, but for starters:

S: Mewtwo, Mega Man, “DK Newcomer”
A: K. Rool, Ridley, Little Mac, Palutena, “Mario Newcomer,” “Joe Schmoe As Long as He's Flashy and Unique”
B: Pac-Man, Shulk, “Fire Emblem Character Not Named Chrom,” Chrom, “Retro Newcomer,” “New Series Newcomer”
C: Dixie Kong, Takamaru, Isaac, Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, “Zelda Newcomer,” Ghirahim, Krystal, Roy
D: “F-Zero Newcomer,” Waluigi, Mii, "Animal Crossing Newcomer," Samurai Goroh, Black Shadow
F: Pretty much every individual new series newcomer and most remaining veteran series supporting characters
I (for Individuals Turn These Characters into Memes): Impa, Anthony Higgs, Bandana Dee, Kawashima, Nintendog, Brash the Bear
N (for Not Requested Once Before E3 2013): Wii Fit Trainer
 
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Leafeon523

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What are everyone's thoughts on Ike? Do you think he will return or be cut? And would you like to see him appear again?
 

ultimatekoopa

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Well, for some reason I can't upload my an image of my roster so I'll write
Mario Series= Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach and the newcomers are Rosalina and bowser jr
Zelda series= Link, Toon Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik and the newcomer is ghirahim
Pokemon series= Pikachu, Charizard, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Mewtwo returns and the newcomer is greninja, squirtle and ivisaur are cut
Metroid series= Samus and Zamus returns and Kraid Ridley joins them
DK series= DK, diddy kong and KKR as the newcomer
Star fox= same as brawl
Kirby= same as brawl
Fire Emblem= Marth and Chrom but Ike is cut
Earthbound= Only Ness returns
KI= Pit and Palutena joins
Yoshi, Wario, Captain Falcon and Olimar returns
New series= WFT, Little Mac, Villager, Shulk, Mii and Chorus men
Retro= R.O.B, IC, MRGW and Takamaru
3rd party= Sonic, Megaman and Pacman
Cuts= Ivysaur, Squirtle, Lucas, Ike and sadly Snake
Mario, Peach and Luigi FS are changed with Cosmic Clones, Emotional attack and poltegurst, Bowser Jr uses paint to attack
Ganondorf gets revamped and Ghirahim is a defensive swordsman with some projectiles
Mewtwo has two playstyles, one is focuses on distance attacks and is able to do distances grabs, the other one focuses on physical attacks where he uses two psycho blades as weapons
Ridley is the opposite of Little Mac but he isn't so bad in the ground
KKR is a heavyweight with a projectile
Palutena is a defensive character
Shulk can see the future, every 5 minutes he will be able to see the items that will appear in the next 15 seconds, CM has a rhythm moveset and Mii's can use magic
Takamaru will be a slow swordsman with projectiles
Pacman can eat items similar to Wario, but he can move while doing it
 
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Louie G.

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It's funny you mention Ike.
Because I'm actually becoming pretty skeptical in his inclusion. It's just this feeling that has come over me.
 

Louie G.

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Ike is safe; there is literally no reason to omit him from the game. But faith-based perspectives trump logical rationale.
I never said you guys should omit Ike because I have a weird feeling about him.
I just said I'm becoming skeptical in his inclusion, even though he's still on my roster.

That is if you were being sarcastic.
 

Morbi

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I never said you guys should omit Ike because I have a weird feeling about him.
I just said I'm becoming skeptical in his inclusion, even though he's still on my roster.

That is if you were being sarcastic.
No, I am just saying that the only reason anyone believes Ike will be cut is because they "have a weird feeling about him," I am not necessarily directing this at you. It applies to everyone that believes that Ike would be cut without providing a reason.
 

BKupa666

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Ike is in Mewtwo territory for me where he should by all means return, but he's just low enough on the totem pole to the point where I could see Sakurai screwing up and cutting him while putting in a same series character with a single similar move, who deluded individuals will inevitably deem a "replacement." This is openly a gut feeling, I have no supportive evidence.
 
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Mega Bidoof

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So many positive reviews of my roster I couldn't help but add an unlock list!
View attachment 13865
Pros:
- 54 Characters (the perfect number in my mind)
- No Cuts
- K. Rool
- Ridley

Cons:
- No Zelda Newcomer
- No Shulk
- No Chorus Men (Y U NO Sal Romano?!)

The only changes I'd make would be to swap out Paper Mario for a Zelda newcomer, and MAYBE Bandana Dee for Shulk or Chorus Men.

Overall, I'll give it a 9/10.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Ike is in Mewtwo territory for me where he should by all means return, but he's just low enough on the totem pole to the point where I could see Sakurai screwing up and cutting him while putting in a same series character with a single similar move. This is openly a gut feeling, I have no supportive evidence.
Sadly, the possibility of Ike being cut for no good reason is all too real.
 
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