Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

That would be cool, and I thought that before too.
Perhaps the Hands are getting a redesign as well?
Master Hand could be designed to have glowing runes on the lining of his glove, and Crazy Hand could gain glowing metal claws, both hands palms are emblazoned with a Smash Bros symbol?

I'm not so sure about redesigns.
What I am thinking is perhaps a "sequel" fight to them where they go at "full" strength.

 

[Gene]

Yep, exactly. And you could only unlock them (in both versions) only after the Wii U version is released.

I know that's not gonna happen. But it is an idea that just crossed my mind a few minutes ago.

So what happened to Captain Falcon? Well, I'm afraid he won't be returning for this Smash Brothers...

Spoiler

Nah, I'm only kidding!

Spoiler

Wait til Winter.

 

[Vickand]

I know this is gonna sound crazy, far-fetched and maybe even stupid but...what if not all characters are revealed even after release of the 3DS version, but after the Wii U release?
I mean, that some (like 3 or 4) characters are even programmed in the 3DS version, but they are kept COMPLETELY secret and not possible to unlock before the Wii U version.
That way not only Sakurai would suprise everyone, but it would act like a holidays gift/surprise that could raise sells on both consoles even more.

Thats a pretty good idea and something that Sakurai could do

 

[Louie G.]

The more I think about it, the more characters like Chorus Men and Robin feel like "Sakurai" ideas.
Unexpected but incredibly awesome in the long run.
Although there's no real reason for me to consider Robin if I have Chorus Men on my roster (since Chrom is in the Sal Leak, Ike wouldn't be cut for Robin, and there isn't enough room for 4 FE characters IMO).
Even without the leak, I find Chrom a lot more likely overall.

 

[Kenith]

I'm not so sure about redesigns.
What I am thinking is perhaps a "sequel" fight to them where they go at "full" strength.

Well, I mean, they would look mostly the same, just something to differentiate them visually. I think it could happen as a lot of items and stages are getting redesigns as well.

 

[MAGMIS]

Well, I mean, they would look mostly the same, just something to differentiate them visually. I think it could happen as a lot of items and stages are getting redesigns as well.

At the very least, they could possibly make Crazy Hand a black glove instead.

Use the edit button instead of double post.

 

[Kenith]

Use the edit button instead of double post.

I didn't double post, I accidentally submitted the same post twice.

Mods fix please.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I mean, they would look mostly the same, just something to differentiate them visually. I think it could happen as a lot of items and stages are getting redesigns as well.

Sandbag wasn't redesigned. I wouldn't expect the Hands, as iconic and simplistic as they are, to change either.

 

[Kenith]

Sandbag wasn't redesigned. I wouldn't expect the Hands, as iconic and simplistic as they are, to change either.

Good point. I just feel that leftie and rightie isn't a good enough of a visual indicator of the two hands.

 

[HVDooD]

We've reached that time in development where Sakurai wakes up and says: "Oh look there's a couple more slots open on the roster i've forget to fill up with
unique newcomers, jeez there's not enough time anymore for that now. Hmm i have an idea i ask my good friends Falco and Wolf to fill them up except
that they need to bring their Airwing/Wolfen this time since people diddn't seem to like those 3 landmasters that much.
Now all i have to do is keep them silent as unlockable characters when the game drops so they can complain after they gave me their money."

 

[TumblrFamous]

We've reached that time in development where Sakurai wakes up and says: "Oh look there's a couple more slots open on the roster i've forget to fill up with
unique newcomers, jeez there's not enough time anymore for that now. Hmm i have an idea i ask my good friends Falco and Wolf to fill them up except
that they need to bring their Airwing/Wolfen this time since people diddn't seem to like those 3 landmasters that much.
Now all i have to do is keep them silent as unlockable characters when the game drops so they can complain after they gave me their money."

I don't think people would complain if we got both Falco and Wolf back.

 

[Bowserlick]

Maybe the Hands (or on of them) are married or engaged by now. Could have a ring.

 

[Protom]

Maybe the Hands (or on of them) are married or engaged by now. Could have a ring.

I can see it now... you beat matser hand, and then the announcer goes: "JUNIOR HAND!!!"

 

[Rockaphin]

So here it is, I call it my "Somewhat Realistic Want Roster". Basically, I chose characters that I would like to see with those that I think will be in the game. Yes, there will be some bias.

Newcomers: 18
Veterans: 34
Cuts: 5 or 6 if you count Squirtle and Ivysaur as separate characters.
Total: 52

This is not my expected roster.

 

[MAGMIS]

I don't think people would complain if we got both Falco and Wolf back.

Some people even like me think that wolf and falco is a waste of a slot just because how clonish they are. Those would be most of the same people that think wii fit trainer is a waste of a slot.

lol I used to think like that but now I stopped. so I don't mind falco and wolf coming back.

 

[False Sense]

So here it is, I call it my "Somewhat Realistic Want Roster". Basically, I chose characters that I would like to see with those that I think will be in the game. Yes, there will be some bias.

Newcomers: 18
Veterans: 34
Cuts: 5 or 6 if you count Squirtle and Ivysaur as separate characters.
Total: 52

This is not my expected roster.

So, you cut Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, Falco, and Ice Climbers?

I'm interested in hearing your justifications for those cuts, particularly the latter ones.

 

[Bowserlick]

Falco is a tournament character. I think more people in this community would miss Falco over Wolf.

Plus, when Sakurai decided on a Fox clone he went with Falco over Wolf to visually distinguish the two.

I see Falco as a mainstay while Wolf may be on the chopping block.

 

[Gene]

I don't think people would complain if we got both Falco and Wolf back.

If anything they will be very upset and might claim they'll be dropping the series because of two characters. What I think may happen is we'll get a fourth character from Starfox. I'm only going by how we've gotten a new SF character since Melee. Sure it might not seem fair how other franchises are under represented or shouldn't have so many reps already but I'm just preparing for the butthurt especially if it's Krystal.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

New Roster! (though once again, I still prefer 8.5)

Notable Features:

1. This roster includes 2 semi-clone additions. Dixie Kong and Beasts & Louie. I think that this incidental feature makes this roster a bit more realistic than ones that claim semi-clones are no more.
2. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Wolf have been removed. I removed Wolf not of my own bias, but because I think Sakurai will see Wolf as an expendable character given that he's not an exceedingly important character and is a third Fox fighter. This sucks because Wolf is one of my favorite fighters in Brawl.
   
3. Beasts & Louie is a clone of Pikmin & Olimar that uses Bulbmin instead of Pikmin. 5 different types: Bulborb, Orange Bulborb, Snow Bulborb, Bulbear, and Fiery Bulblax. The upward special is Louie being abducted by a Bumbling Snitchbug, and the Final Smash is the Titan Dweevil. All in all, this is a good addition since he's an important partner in a very popular Nintendo franchise.
4. This roster features 2 additions to IPs that have not previously had additions since their debut in Smash: Kid Icarus & Pikmin.

@ N3ON Let me try to explain my reasoning for Funky Kong a little better. Firstly, Sakurai does not select characters like a deck of cards. He doesn't pull one card with Diddy, then the next has Dixie, then the next has K. Rool, and no opinions about it. It's more selective than that. Sakurai looks into what a character can bring to the game. A Hip, Hawaiin surfer dude arguably brings more than another reptilian tyrant consisting of the bland moves I've heard of. Funky is in fact a VERY popular DK character who brings a lot of potential and character. I'm not saying this makes him more important than K. Rool, but K. Rool is in no way essential. Even Dixie who I believe IS essential, COULD be dismissed for not working very well move set wise. So there are many things to take into consideration, some of which are little factors and Sakurai's bias.

Your attitude that Funky has no chance is an ignorant attitude. It's completely ignorant of the last 2 times we've had less important characters make it in over the characters we thought were "next in line" and even when reminded you came back with very weak reasoning of why that situation is different. What benefits the game can sometimes be more important than what benefits the majority of fans, and incidentally pleases fans in the process.

As for Funky being a clone of Donkey Kong, my evaluation of Sakurai's clone code is simply a reiteration of what's been proven to lead to characters becoming clones. I don't believe it's set in stone and can't be reasoned with. I do believe there are exceptions, especially with the differences in this installment. Because another factor you'll notice applies to all clones is that they share the same niche. Wolf and Fox are space pilots, Mario & Luigi are Mario Brothers, Ness & Lucas are PSI kids. The only exception was a phoned in character: Ganondorf, who was a clone for the sole reason of being phone in. Funky shares the same model with DK, but they certainly don't share the same character traits. And I don't mean just personality, I include similarity in roles and activities.

I'm fully aware of where you are coming from, because you have every reason to say Funky would be a clone of DK. But, while your reasoning is strong, it's not impenetrable. It can be exempted.

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't think people would complain if we got both Falco and Wolf back.

If wolf was cut I probably wouldnt buy the game.

Falco is a tournament character. I think more people in this community would miss Falco over Wolf.

Plus, when Sakurai decided on a Fox clone he went with Falco over Wolf to visually distinguish the two.

I see Falco as a mainstay while Wolf may be on the chopping block.

I hate that this is true since Wolf is so much more important and more badass.

 

[Kenith]

If wolf was cut I probably wouldnt buy the game.

You're not the only one, and Sakurai knows that, which is why he is trying hard to not cut anyone.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If wolf was cut I probably wouldnt buy the game.


I hate that this is true since Wolf is so much more important and more badass.

Except he actually isn't more important than Falco. Not even close.

 

[Rockaphin]

So, you cut Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Jigglypuff, Falco, and Ice Climbers?

I'm interested in hearing your justifications for those cuts, particularly the latter ones.

Glad you didn't rip me apart so thank you for that.
Snake: I don't think he'll be returning this time, just a gut feeling really.
Ivysaur & Squirtle: With Pokémon Trainer cut, sadly I don't think we'll be seeing either of them.
Jigglypuff: I'm one of those people that don't think she's needed anymore. With so many Pokémon to choose from, I feel that she could possibly lose her spot. I've heard people claiming that she was a low-priority character during Brawl's development. Anyway, I don't think she'll be cut. But I personally wouldn't mind her being excluded this time.
Falco: I really don't think he'll be cut, but if I had to cut someone for Krystal, it would be him. I personally think Wolf is more unique and just as important to the series as Falco is. I also personally hate Falco so that is another reason he's not in my roster. I think Krystal has potential to be more unique than Falco.
Ice Climbers: I actually think this character will be cut. My guess will be something to do with the 3DS limitations but I'll probably eat my words Thursday. So I'll prepare for that

Like I said earlier, I don't expect some of my decisions so seeing someone like Jigglypuff or Falco cut or some of my newcomer decisions is part of my "want" part of the roster.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Nobody gonna comment on my roster? Come on, mateys! ARGH!

 

[MagnesD3]

Except he actually isn't more important than Falco. Not even close.

And you know nothing about starfox if you say that. Btw this is coming from someone who knows his crud when it comes to starfox.

 

[False Sense]

New Roster! (though once again, I still prefer 8.5)
View attachment 12837
Notable Features:

1. This roster includes 2 semi-clone additions. Dixie Kong and Beasts & Louie. I think that this incidental feature makes this roster a bit more realistic than ones that claim semi-clones are no more.
2. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Wolf have been removed. I removed Wolf not of my own bias, but because I think Sakurai will see Wolf as an expendable character given that he's not an exceedingly important character and is a third Fox fighter. This sucks because Wolf is one of my favorite fighters in Brawl.
   
3. Beasts & Louie is a clone of Pikmin & Olimar that uses Bulbmin instead of Pikmin. 5 different types: Bulborb, Orange Bulborb, Snow Bulborb, Bulbear, and Fiery Bulblax. The upward special is Louie being abducted by a Bumbling Snitchbug, and the Final Smash is the Titan Dweevil. All in all, this is a good addition since he's an important partner in a very popular Nintendo franchise.
4. This roster features 2 additions to IPs that have not previously had additions since their debut in Smash: Kid Icarus & Pikmin.

@ N3ON Let me try to explain my reasoning for Funky Kong a little better. Firstly, Sakurai does not select characters like a deck of cards. He doesn't pull one card with Diddy, then the next has Dixie, then the next has K. Rool, and no opinions about it. It's more selective than that. Sakurai looks into what a character can bring to the game. A Hip, Hawaiin surfer dude arguably brings more than another reptilian tyrant consisting of the bland moves I've heard of. Funky is in fact a VERY popular DK character who brings a lot of potential and character. I'm not saying this makes him more important than K. Rool, but K. Rool is in no way essential. Even Dixie who I believe IS essential, COULD be dismissed for not working very well move set wise. So there are many things to take into consideration, some of which are little factors and Sakurai's bias.

Your attitude that Funky has no chance is an ignorant attitude. It's completely ignorant of the last 2 times we've had less important characters make it in over the characters we thought were "next in line" and even when reminded you came back with very weak reasoning of why that situation is different. What benefits the game can sometimes be more important than what benefits the majority of fans, and incidentally pleases fans in the process.

As for Funky being a clone of Donkey Kong, my evaluation of Sakurai's clone code is simply a reiteration of what's been proven to lead to characters becoming clones. I don't believe it's set in stone and can't be reasoned with. I do believe there are exceptions, especially with the differences in this installment. Because another factor you'll notice applies to all clones is that they share the same niche. Wolf and Fox are space pilots, Mario & Luigi are Mario Brothers, Ness & Lucas are PSI kids. The only exception was a phoned in character: Ganondorf, who was a clone for the sole reason of being phone in. Funky shares the same model with DK, but they certainly don't share the same character traits. And I don't mean just personality, I include similarity in roles and activities.

I'm fully aware of where you are coming from, because you have every reason to say Funky would be a clone of DK. But, while your reasoning is strong, it's not impenetrable. It can be exempted.

I must say, I'm a little confused as to why Funky Kong is apparently not in any way shape or form a clone of Donkey Kong, yet Dixie Kong is a semi clone of Diddy. Shouldn't it be the other way around? After all, Funky shares a much more similar body shape overall with Donkey Kong than Dixie does to Diddy. Dixie doesn't even have a tail like Diddy does. Sure, you could say that her hair would work exactly like a tail, but that's a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And you know nothing about starfox if you say that. Btw this is coming from someone who knows his crud when it comes to starfox.

Apparently I know more about it than you. Falco is in all games and is Fox's main man as well as the second most popular Star Fox character. Wolf is a rival and not even the main antagonist. Not that being an antagonist makes you automatically important.

Falco is more like the Luigi of Star Fox in this case.

I must say, I'm a little confused as to why Funky Kong is apparently not in any way shape or form a clone of Donkey Kong, yet Dixie Kong is a semi clone of Diddy. Shouldn't it be the other way around? After all, Funky shares a much more similar body shape overall with Donkey Kong than Dixie does to Diddy. Dixie doesn't even have a tail like Diddy does. Sure, you could say that her hair would work exactly like a tail, but that's a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

I explain that in my quote to N3ON

 

[Rockaphin]

New Roster! (though once again, I still prefer 8.5)
View attachment 12837
Notable Features:

1. This roster includes 2 semi-clone additions. Dixie Kong and Beasts & Louie. I think that this incidental feature makes this roster a bit more realistic than ones that claim semi-clones are no more.
2. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Wolf have been removed. I removed Wolf not of my own bias, but because I think Sakurai will see Wolf as an expendable character given that he's not an exceedingly important character and is a third Fox fighter. This sucks because Wolf is one of my favorite fighters in Brawl.
   
3. Beasts & Louie is a clone of Pikmin & Olimar that uses Bulbmin instead of Pikmin. 5 different types: Bulborb, Orange Bulborb, Snow Bulborb, Bulbear, and Fiery Bulblax. The upward special is Louie being abducted by a Bumbling Snitchbug, and the Final Smash is the Titan Dweevil. All in all, this is a good addition since he's an important partner in a very popular Nintendo franchise.
4. This roster features 2 additions to IPs that have not previously had additions since their debut in Smash: Kid Icarus & Pikmin.

@ N3ON Let me try to explain my reasoning for Funky Kong a little better. Firstly, Sakurai does not select characters like a deck of cards. He doesn't pull one card with Diddy, then the next has Dixie, then the next has K. Rool, and no opinions about it. It's more selective than that. Sakurai looks into what a character can bring to the game. A Hip, Hawaiin surfer dude arguably brings more than another reptilian tyrant consisting of the bland moves I've heard of. Funky is in fact a VERY popular DK character who brings a lot of potential and character. I'm not saying this makes him more important than K. Rool, but K. Rool is in no way essential. Even Dixie who I believe IS essential, COULD be dismissed for not working very well move set wise. So there are many things to take into consideration, some of which are little factors and Sakurai's bias.

Your attitude that Funky has no chance is an ignorant attitude. It's completely ignorant of the last 2 times we've had less important characters make it in over the characters we thought were "next in line" and even when reminded you came back with very weak reasoning of why that situation is different. What benefits the game can sometimes be more important than what benefits the majority of fans, and incidentally pleases fans in the process.

As for Funky being a clone of Donkey Kong, my evaluation of Sakurai's clone code is simply a reiteration of what's been proven to lead to characters becoming clones. I don't believe it's set in stone and can't be reasoned with. I do believe there are exceptions, especially with the differences in this installment. Because another factor you'll notice applies to all clones is that they share the same niche. Wolf and Fox are space pilots, Mario & Luigi are Mario Brothers, Ness & Lucas are PSI kids. The only exception was a phoned in character: Ganondorf, who was a clone for the sole reason of being phone in. Funky shares the same model with DK, but they certainly don't share the same character traits. And I don't mean just personality, I include similarity in roles and activities.

I'm fully aware of where you are coming from, because you have every reason to say Funky would be a clone of DK. But, while your reasoning is strong, it's not impenetrable. It can be exempted.

I like that you added Mach Rider, I prefer him over Takamaru.
While I also think Funky has a chance, I think we'll only see one Donkey Kong newcomer. Personally I think it will either be Dixie or King K. Rool. But I don't mind 4 Donkey Kong characters and I'd actually like it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I like that you added Mach Rider, I prefer him over Takamaru.
While I also think Funky has a chance, I think we'll only see one Donkey Kong newcomer. Personally I think it will either be Dixie or King K. Rool. But I don't mind 4 Donkey Kong characters and I'd actually like it.

I left out Takamaru because of Greninja. And I agree that more than 3 Donkey Kong characters shouldn't be a thing, but I don't think Sakurai will care seeing as there are 3 franchises that have made it to 5.

 

[False Sense]

I explain that in my quote to N3ON

I didn't see any explanation for Dixie Kong. Don't you typically argue against semi-clone status for characters who technically are not capable of performing the same actions as their original?

 

[MagnesD3]

Apparently I know more about it than you. Falco is in all games and is Fox's main man as well as the second most popular Star Fox character. Wolf is a rival and not even the main antagonist. Not that being an antagonist makes you automatically important.

Falco is more like the Luigi of Star Fox in this case.


I explain that in my quote to N3ON

Its not a discussion its a blatant fact that Wolf is more important, have you even religiously beat all the star fox's or explored the lore? Yeah I dont think so.

 

[Deleted member]

I have a feeling most of you won't be prepared for the next wave of fighters that'll come, even if you say "Oh I'm ready for characters that not many people/nobody asked for"

 

[TumblrFamous]

Saturn, it's a decent roster. I think the cuts are justifiable, though it's a shot in the dark with who'll be cut. So I typically avoid them on my rosters just to save debate. The Louie is a cool concept, but it may be a bit of a stretch. And I love Funky. 8/10

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

New Roster! (though once again, I still prefer 8.5)
View attachment 12837
Notable Features:

1. This roster includes 2 semi-clone additions. Dixie Kong and Beasts & Louie. I think that this incidental feature makes this roster a bit more realistic than ones that claim semi-clones are no more.
2. Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Wolf have been removed. I removed Wolf not of my own bias, but because I think Sakurai will see Wolf as an expendable character given that he's not an exceedingly important character and is a third Fox fighter. This sucks because Wolf is one of my favorite fighters in Brawl.
   
3. Beasts & Louie is a clone of Pikmin & Olimar that uses Bulbmin instead of Pikmin. 5 different types: Bulborb, Orange Bulborb, Snow Bulborb, Bulbear, and Fiery Bulblax. The upward special is Louie being abducted by a Bumbling Snitchbug, and the Final Smash is the Titan Dweevil. All in all, this is a good addition since he's an important partner in a very popular Nintendo franchise.
4. This roster features 2 additions to IPs that have not previously had additions since their debut in Smash: Kid Icarus & Pikmin.

@ N3ON Let me try to explain my reasoning for Funky Kong a little better. Firstly, Sakurai does not select characters like a deck of cards. He doesn't pull one card with Diddy, then the next has Dixie, then the next has K. Rool, and no opinions about it. It's more selective than that. Sakurai looks into what a character can bring to the game. A Hip, Hawaiin surfer dude arguably brings more than another reptilian tyrant consisting of the bland moves I've heard of. Funky is in fact a VERY popular DK character who brings a lot of potential and character. I'm not saying this makes him more important than K. Rool, but K. Rool is in no way essential. Even Dixie who I believe IS essential, COULD be dismissed for not working very well move set wise. So there are many things to take into consideration, some of which are little factors and Sakurai's bias.

Your attitude that Funky has no chance is an ignorant attitude. It's completely ignorant of the last 2 times we've had less important characters make it in over the characters we thought were "next in line" and even when reminded you came back with very weak reasoning of why that situation is different. What benefits the game can sometimes be more important than what benefits the majority of fans, and incidentally pleases fans in the process.

As for Funky being a clone of Donkey Kong, my evaluation of Sakurai's clone code is simply a reiteration of what's been proven to lead to characters becoming clones. I don't believe it's set in stone and can't be reasoned with. I do believe there are exceptions, especially with the differences in this installment. Because another factor you'll notice applies to all clones is that they share the same niche. Wolf and Fox are space pilots, Mario & Luigi are Mario Brothers, Ness & Lucas are PSI kids. The only exception was a phoned in character: Ganondorf, who was a clone for the sole reason of being phone in. Funky shares the same model with DK, but they certainly don't share the same character traits. And I don't mean just personality, I include similarity in roles and activities.

I'm fully aware of where you are coming from, because you have every reason to say Funky would be a clone of DK. But, while your reasoning is strong, it's not impenetrable. It can be exempted.

Well, I'm not a fan of Funky Kong, but LOUIE. I seriously can't not like this roster because Louie and Bulbmin sounds pretty darn cool.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Hey, here's a question. Say we get a Mother reveal. Who'd it be first? Ness or Lucas?

 

[Kenith]

Nobody gonna comment on my roster? Come on, mateys! ARGH!

I am refraining from talking about your roster because you probably know what most of us will point out.

 

[Rockaphin]

Eh I'm not sure where to post this since the Leaks/Rumors Thread is gone. So if someone could guide me to the correct spot then that'll be great. I saw this not too long ago and I haven't seen any discussion about it so here you go:
https://twitter.com/SmashLeaks1
Leaked video of the "Choir Boy" and other screens with unconfirmed veterans.

EDIT: Not saying these are real either. I'm a little weary.

 

[MAGMIS]

Hey, here's a question. Say we get a Mother reveal. Who'd it be first? Ness or Lucas?

Lucas on Mother's Day reveal?

 

[Deleted member]

Eh I'm not sure where to post this since the Leaks/Rumors Thread is gone. So if someone could guide me to the correct spot then that'll be great. I saw this not too long ago and I haven't seen any discussion about it so here you go:
https://twitter.com/SmashLeaks1
Leaked video of the "Choir Boy" and other screens with unconfirmed veterans.

EDIT: Not saying these are real either. I'm a little weary.

Oh god, I really hope Falco doesn't go back to his Melee-ish appearance.

 

[Morbi]

Its not a discussion its a blatant fact that Wolf is more important, have you even religiously beat all the star fox's or explored the lore? Yeah I dont think so.

Agreed.

Eh I'm not sure where to post this since the Leaks/Rumors Thread is gone. So if someone could guide me to the correct spot then that'll be great. I saw this not too long ago and I haven't seen any discussion about it so here you go:
https://twitter.com/SmashLeaks1
Leaked video of the "Choir Boy" and other screens with unconfirmed veterans.

EDIT: Not saying these are real either. I'm a little weary.

Honestly; those are obviously fake. It looks like most models are torn out of Brawl, that was Melee Falco. I highly doubt that Sakurai would recreate Melee Falco while giving Fox an update. It doesn't seem rational.