Character Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Do you still think he's going to be playable after the direct?

I've said many times that I do not.
There's this little piece of me that wants to have hope, but it's a flickering light.

 

[TumblrFamous]

It's not my fault that you purposely pretended like you didn't know what I meant.

Okay, well now that you reiterated it...

Diddy didn't get a trophy in Melee, and he got in Brawl. If Krystal's staff or something like that wasn't shown in Brawl's trophies or something like that, I don't see a problem in adding it now.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

"Duh, obviously the Kremlings were added because they're Donkey Kong enemies, K. Rool is affected as much as Tiki Tong is affected."

Not as terrible as your comparative logic:

"Dixie is often seen alongside Donkey in Diddy inside the actual games? Well that means Mini-Mario is the third most important protagonists because he's shown alongside Mario in Artwork."

"Dixie using her iconic gum as a move? That's like if Donkey used a real life Nintendo product not closely associated with his character. Cuz you know, they're easter eggs so it's automatically the same situation."

 

[TumblrFamous]

You know if we're not getting Ridley we better get King K. Rool. It would suck not having a new villain added, especially one so popular. Anyway, here's my new roster. I changed Ice Climbers to Ice Climber, you can choose to play as either Popo or Nana. I think making them as a duo might not work for the 3DS version. I could potentially be proven wrong this Thursday though. What are your thoughts of my roster?

It's pretty nice. Jigglypuff is a fine cut, though I think we'll get all 6.

 

[Substitution]

Sorry; I was in a different thread, my notification didn't tell me about this response.

Eh, it happens.

I was just affirming the notion that it was pivotal to his character, I shouldn't have used the phrase "play-style."

But even then, it's still pushing it.
Sure, it's his gimmick. But it's not a major part of his moveset. It's optional.
You don't have to use it. Like the Falcon Punch. Or the Wario Waft. It's a component of his character sure. But not the driving force.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Okay, well now that you reiterated it...

Diddy didn't get a trophy in Melee, and he got in Brawl. If Krystal's staff or something like that wasn't shown in Brawl's trophies or something like that, I don't see a problem in adding it now.

Um, Diddy was still apart of everything in the Donkey Kong Country series. Krystal's Staff and her Adventures niche is unique to Star Fox Adventures. And this isn't JUST about Trophies.

 

[N3ON]

@SaturnGamer64
Funky isn't a brute like DK... and Falco prefers the air... but he's still a semi-clone...

And Funky is a character with practically no chance. No matter how you want to look at it, K. Rool, Dixie, and/or Cranky outclass him in just about everything. Rosalina had major appearances in recent main Mario titles (which seems to be the bent Sakurai is on), and notable popularity in Japan. Funky... has had a supporting role which can't compare to Dixie or Cranky's, and little popularity to speak of...

Greninja.. while unexpected, also had quite a lot of popularity even if not Smash based... and for his gen... there weren't any choices that outclass him, and there wasn't any demand for a different sixth gen, unlike what's going on in the DK series.

What exactly does Funky have in his favour that would cause him to make it over the other three and make him an original fighter exactly?

 

[Morbi]

Eh, it happens.


But even then, it's still pushing it.
Sure, it's his gimmick. But it's not a major part of his moveset. It's optional.
You don't have to use it. Like the Falcon Punch. Or the Wario Waft. It's a component of his character sure. But not the driving force.

I feel as though his own individual meter that builds while you are attacking makes it much more prominent than Wario's d-special (which only accumulates over time) or the Falcon Punch (which is just a move with decent knock back). Especially as it is "marketed" as a OHKO move; the others are not. I don't believe it is "pushing" it, but I suppose that is my opinion.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Do you still think he's going to be playable after the direct?

Yes I do good sir, yes I do.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Not as terrible as your comparative logic:

"Dixie is often seen alongside Donkey in Diddy inside the actual games? Well that means Mini-Mario is the third most important protagonists because he's shown alongside Mario in Artwork."

"Dixie using her iconic gum as a move? That's like if Donkey used a real life Nintendo product not closely associated with his character. Cuz you know, they're easter eggs so it's automatically the same situation."

You just had to go on the offensive when he wasn't even talking about Dixie.

The Kutthroats will kome for you mate...

Prepare.....





On another note, I think the Chorus Men idea has some interesting possibilities.

I'm imagining a juggler type playstyle. Using sound waves to knock opponents up and timing to make the waves even stronger. Thoughts?

 

[TumblrFamous]

@SaturnGamer64
Funky isn't a brute like DK... and Falco prefers the air... but he's still a semi-clone...

And Funky is a character with practically no chance. No matter how you want to look at it, K. Rool, Dixie, and/or Cranky outclass him in just about everything. Rosalina had major appearances in recent main Mario titles (which seems to be the bent Sakurai is on), and notable popularity in Japan. Funky... has had a supporting role which can't compare to Dixie or Cranky's, and little popularity to speak of...

Greninja.. while unexpected, also had quite a lot of popularity even if not Smash based... and for his gen... there weren't any choices that outclass him, and there wasn't any demand for a different sixth gen, unlike what's going on in the DK series.

What exactly does Funky have in his favour that would cause him to make it over the other three and make him an original fighter exactly?

All about the surfboard, baby.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

@SaturnGamer64
Funky isn't a brute like DK... and Falco prefers the air... but he's still a semi-clone...

And Funky is a character with practically no chance. No matter how you want to look at it, K. Rool, Dixie, and/or Cranky outclass him in just about everything. Rosalina had major appearances in recent main Mario titles (which seems to be the bent Sakurai is on), and notable popularity in Japan. Funky... has had a supporting role which can't compare to Dixie or Cranky's, and little popularity to speak of...

Greninja.. while unexpected, also had quite a lot of popularity even if not Smash based... and for his gen... there weren't any choices that outclass him, and there wasn't any demand for a different sixth gen, unlike what's going on in the DK series.

What exactly does Funky have in his favour that would cause him to make it over the other three and make him an original fighter exactly?

We need more surfer dudes in Smash.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Um, Diddy was still apart of everything in the Donkey Kong Country series. Krystal's Staff and her Adventures niche is unique to Star Fox Adventures. And this isn't JUST about Trophies.

Then what else is it about? So we didnt get Adventures stuff in Brawl, that wont mean itll be completely dismissed.

 

[N3ON]

All about the surfboard, baby.

We need more surfer dudes in Smash.

Crowns, canes, and bubble gum is where its at.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Crowns, canes, and bubble gum is where its at.

You're totally not radical, dudette...

 

[Autumn ♫]

We need more surfer dudes in Smash.

Surfing Pikachu confirmed for next Pokemon character.

 

[N3ON]

Well, I was being serious here.

It's like, King Dedede and Kirby share an inhale attack, Charizard and Bowser share a fire breath attack, and Marth and Ike share a counter attack, but nobody bats an eye. Hell some animations are very similar to each other for standard attacks, like Zamus and Sonic sharing a very similar down aerial or Ness and Mario sharing a similar forward tilt.

I think there's a bit of a difference between a single attack shared and a decent chunk if not the entire moveset being based on an existing character though.

 

[BKupa666]

Not as terrible as your comparative logic:

"Dixie is often seen alongside Donkey in Diddy inside the actual games? Well that means Mini-Mario is the third most important protagonists because he's shown alongside Mario in Artwork."

"Dixie using her iconic gum as a move? That's like if Donkey used a real life Nintendo product not closely associated with his character. Cuz you know, they're easter eggs so it's automatically the same situation."

Wow, that is pretty gruesome.

Who could possibly have made such memetically asinine original points that such comparative logic could be made about them?

 

[Deleted member]

If his decision-making process in adding the Chorus Men was creating a gimmick, then searching for characters specifically meant to perform that gimmick, as appears to be the case based on my interpretation, it does come across as "cheap novelty." Same goes for WFT, albeit with the process being to search specifically for characters wanted by no one in her case.

I personally don't categorize Villager as a shock character, though, since the inclusion of a reasonably popular character from a character-driven franchise is straightforward enough. He comes across as an individual first and foremost, then fleshed out with a moveset, rather than chosen due to winning Sakurai's shock character lottery.

That's implying that "cheap novelty" solely correlates to "shock value", which it does not (or at least in this instance).
It's referring to the point of the characters. In the interview, Sakurai points out that Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not added for "cheap novelty" for their unusual nature (in context of suitability for Smash), but rather for their unique attacks and battle strategies that help make the game more interesting.

Which is precisely the point I was driving with the Chorus Kids in my last post. They would be included because Sakurai envisioned a style not yet seen before, one that focuses on rhythm and maintaining it to succeed, and looking to a series focusing all about it for a character idea. Why the Chorus Kids specifically, I don't know. Maybe they fit the style the most of the available options? Maybe they aren't too random in comparison to other options that they can at least garner an audience (due to being iconic for the franchise)? I can't answer that. But it's not because no one predicted them.

And, as I'm writing this, I'm thinking back to Wii Fit Trainer, and I'm realizing that it isn't why she was included either. It may have had some influence in her inclusion, but judging by the exact words (well, the translated ones, anyway) used, he was only expressing that she was someone that didn't receive any notable requests, and thus no one expected her. As opposed to using it as why she was included as if he was deliberately seeking out someone that would shock everyone.

 

[Substitution]

T
Which is precisely the point I was driving with the Chorus Kids in my last post. They would be included because Sakurai envisioned a style not yet seen before, one that focuses on rhythm and maintaining it to succeed, and looking to a series focusing all about it for a character idea. Why the Chorus Kids specifically, I don't know. Maybe they fit the style the most of the available options? Maybe they aren't too random in comparison to other options that they can at least garner an audience (due to being iconic for the franchise)? I can't answer that. But it's not because no one predicted them.

It think it's mostly due to said Chorus Kids having Marshal. Who is one of the more prominent characters in the franchise (at least, in Fever).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think there's a bit of a difference between a single attack shared and a decent chunk if not the entire moveset being based on an existing character though.

Not to the people that use the asinine reasons why characters are clones.

One attack shared means you're a clone, no exception.

 

[Deleted member]

It think it's mostly due to said Chorus Kids having Marshal. Who is one of the more prominent characters in the franchise (at least, in Fever).

Wrong on both accounts.
Marshal is not a Chorus Kid, and Marshal is honestly not that prominent in the franchise, having only minimal appearances in Fever.

 

[Rockaphin]

^Well, what about Dr. Mario, or Paper Mario?

Do you believe they have lower chances because of that?

I wouldn't necessarily say Paper Mario's chances are lowered by it. I actually think he has a decent chance to be the next Mario newcomer. Personally I'm up for it because I don't see anything wrong with Paper Mario being playable.

 

[BKupa666]

That's implying that "cheap novelty" solely correlates to "shock value", which it does not (or at least in this instance).
It's referring to the point of the characters. In the interview, Sakurai points out that Villager and Wii Fit Trainer were not added for "cheap novelty" for their unusual nature (in context of suitability for Smash), but rather for their unique attacks and battle strategies that help make the game more interesting.

Which is precisely the point I was driving with the Chorus Kids in my last post. They would be included because Sakurai envisioned a style not yet seen before, one that focuses on rhythm and maintaining it to succeed, and looking to a series focusing all about it for a character idea. Why the Chorus Kids specifically, I don't know. Maybe they fit the style the most of the available options? Maybe they aren't too random in comparison to other options that they can at least garner an audience (due to being iconic for the franchise)? I can't answer that. But it's not because no one predicted them.

And, as I'm writing this, I'm thinking back to Wii Fit Trainer, and I'm realizing that it isn't why she was included either. It may have had some influence in her inclusion, but judging by the exact words (well, the translated ones, anyway) used, he was only expressing that she was someone that didn't receive any notable requests, and thus no one expected her. As opposed to using it as why she was included as if he was deliberately seeking out someone that would shock everyone.

If we get technical about things, every character has unique attacks and battle strategies that can be pointed to as justification for their inclusion, even the outright clones. My post is largely guesswork regarding why specifically those characters were chosen, but given that you'll see just a token one or two surprising characters amid a newcomer roster of liked, conventional choices, the idea that these characters are chosen to fill a niche isn't too far-fetched IMO. I don't think Sakurai is choosing the Wii Fit Trainers and Chorus Men out of the entire pool of newcomers based on uniqueness, but instead out of a smaller pool of characters specifically deemed 'not popular' or 'surprising' by him, and then pointed to as 'unique' like any other character.

 

[Substitution]

Wrong on both accounts.
Marshal is not a Chorus Kid, and Marshal is honestly not that prominent in the franchise, having only minimal appearances in Fever.

Well then, I don't really know why.
"Because Sakurai" is all I really have to say then.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I would love Funky or Cranky.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And Funky is a character with practically no chance. No matter how you want to look at it, K. Rool, Dixie, and/or Cranky outclass him in just about everything.

Well, I can tell you are just refusing to be rational or listen to reason.

"Nope! No Funky! No chance whatsoever! Dixie and K. Rool are better. Funky can't get in."

So I'll just debunk you're dismissive arguments and be done with it.

Rosalina had major appearances in recent main Mario titles (which seems to be the bent Sakurai is on), and notable popularity in Japan. Funky... has had a supporting role which can't compare to Dixie or Cranky's, and little popularity to speak of...

She had a major appearance in 3D World, which for all we know was not influential. Even if it was, that clearly wasn't enough for anyone here. People still said she wouldn't get in over Bowser Jr and Toad. And Funky's not popular? He may not be requested, but he's a ****ing popular character.

You're saying his role does not compare to Dixie and Cranky. What about Rosalina's role compared to Toad and Bowser Jr. You clearly haven't learned anything from past reveals. You're still hell bent and not accepting ANY character even REMOTELY less important than the "next in line" characters. You won't even admit that Funky has ANY chance WHATSOEVER. But, Cranky??? Sure, I mean after all he was playable once. That automatically makes him WAY more important than Funky despite that they are both just supporting characters and Funky has more potential and spin off appearances.

Greninja.. while unexpected, also had quite a lot of popularity even if not Smash based... and for his gen... there weren't any choices that outclass him, and there wasn't any demand for a different sixth gen, unlike what's going on in the DK series.

I'd say Funky was more popular than Greninja. Smash and Non Smash based.

What exactly does Funky have in his favour that would cause him to make it over the other three and make him an original fighter exactly?

Oh, right. Because your move set is based on how important you are.

I can't prove to you that one character will make it over the other. I thought Paper Mario and Genesect would make it in over Rosalina and Greninja. But, they didn't.

Funky has a chance of getting in because he is popular and has a lot of potential that would be more unique than Dixie and K. Rool. I never claim he's more important, but he is important and less important characters have triumphed before.

Again, I'm not arguing that Funky can't be a clone, I would never be so naive. I just believe there are exceptions in cases where some characters warrant them and I'm sure you do too based on the arguments I've had with you. I don't believe Donkey's move set fits Funky's like say Krystal would fit Fox. You can argue with me why Mach Rider would be a clone and I'm not going to counter argue with a point that necessarily defeats yours.

But, I'm not going off of blind faith. I feel that Mach Rider is important enough to be exempt and I think Funky Kong's difference in his niche is enough to be exempt. I believe that some characters can be exempt in certain situations. I've even come to accept that Chrom likely would be exempt given his sword weight and being the only lord in Smash to have different stances.

And to be honest, even if Funky CAN do what Donkey does, he never does. That's not his niche. Every other clone still shared the niche with their characters with the exception of Ganondorf who was a phoned in character. Again, that doesn't automatically debunk the claim he'd be a clone. But, it is a valid argument to say that he's not doomed to be one and can likely be exempt from it.

Things change in Smash. It's irritating that you can't come to accept that after the reveals. If you want to argue about the clone thing though that's fine. But, I'm not going to argue with you about Funky's merits because you clearly will accept nothing other than to believe he has none and no character with less merits can get in over another. Despite that they have.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I suppose Sakurai is looking into popularity outside of the smash fanbase this time, in order to grab the attention of a broader audience. I wouldn't be surprised if us trying to think really deeply into unorthodox stuff is ironically causing us to get unorthodox choices, due to the anticipation of surprises causing us to not expect stuff that would cater to larger audiences.

 

[Deleted member]

If we get technical about things, every character has unique attacks and battle strategies that can be pointed to as justification for their inclusion, even the outright clones. My post is largely guesswork regarding why specifically those characters were chosen, but given that you'll see just a token one or two surprising characters amid a newcomer roster of liked, conventional choices, the idea that these characters are chosen to fill a niche isn't too far-fetched IMO. I don't think Sakurai is choosing the Wii Fit Trainers and Chorus Men out of the entire pool of newcomers based on uniqueness, but instead out of a smaller pool of characters specifically deemed 'not popular' or 'surprising' by him, and then pointed to as 'unique' like any other character.

The thing is, that's overanalyzing things.
The simple logic (which I'm not claiming to be the true logic, mind you; just asserting the simplistic nature) is that Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Kids are among newer characters from fresher, notable franchises that provide something different to what we're used to.
It isn't to fill out some "unexpected" niche, at which Villager, Rosalina, and Greninja so far also fill.

 

[Gunla]

I suppose Sakurai is looking into popularity outside of the smash fanbase this time, in order to grab the attention of a broader audience. I wouldn't be surprised if us trying to think really deeply into unorthodox stuff is ironically causing us to get unorthodox choices, due to the anticipation of surprises causing us to not expect stuff that would cater to larger audiences.

Seeing how this game is kind of designed to sell systems, and be reaching casuals and competitives alike, there's likely going to be more broader choices.
However, I think there's a fine line between logical broad and ridiculous, obscure broad.
Obscure characters aren't always broad.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Crowns, canes, and bubble gum is where its at.

Grapes, Melons, Oranges, and Coconut Shells.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I swear Sakurai is doing this on purpose. The color of the background for each newcomer switches between green and blue.

Watch the next newcomers revealed be Palutena, Chrom, and K. Rool, in that order.

 

[MAGMIS]

I swear Sakurai is doing this on purpose. The color of the background for each newcomer switches between green and blue.

Watch the next newcomers revealed be Palutena, Chrom, and K. Rool, in that order.

U mean Palutena, Chrom, Shulk.
Each having one girl and two guys.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Why are people still expecting shoo-ins? That shouldn't even be a thing anymore. All the rosters are so boring.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I swear Sakurai is doing this on purpose. The color of the background for each newcomer switches between green and blue.

Watch the next newcomers revealed be Palutena, Chrom, and K. Rool, in that order.

If we add in Krystal, it would also be like that. Just sayin.

 

[BKupa666]

The thing is, that's overanalyzing things.
The simple logic (which I'm not claiming to be the true logic, mind you; just asserting the simplistic nature) is that Wii Fit Trainer and Chorus Kids are among newer characters from fresher, notable franchises that provide something different to what we're used to.
It isn't to fill out some "unexpected" niche, at which Villager, Rosalina, and Greninja so far also fill.

I could definitely see the simple logic answer being Sakurai's response to Nintendo not creating any new protagonists of worth in his opinion, (aside from seemingly Shulk), which he complained about on the DOJO...even though "New Miyamoto IPs" seem to have been teased at every E3 for years and years. Those latter three characters come across more as understandable ones that pinged on our radar, but that we wrote off for whatever reason, rather than ones who were specifically chosen to be revealed to E3 journalists, then followed up by queries of "Was anybody expecting that?" That's just my theory, though.

@ FlareHabanero is probably right in his "broadening horizons" theory as well, since most veteran Smash fans are buying this game unconditionally anyhow.

 

[Autumn ♫]

U mean Palutena, Chrom, Shulk.
Each having one girl and two guys.

But Shulk should have a red background...

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

U mean Palutena, Chrom, Shulk.
Each having one girl and two guys.

Are in insinuating that King K. Rool is a girl?

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

Why are people still expecting shoo-ins? That shouldn't even be a thing anymore. All the rosters are so boring.

Y'ALL SPECULATORS NEED PLASM WRAITH

With some of these recent reveals(Rosalina and Greninja), I've gained some confidence in Plasm Wraith's chances. Even though they're still SUPER low, I feel they've been boosted slightly. Sakurai seems to be picking characters that are less expected, but still possible, and Plasm Wraith fits that pretty well. And it still hasn't been disconfirmed.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why are people still expecting shoo-ins? That shouldn't even be a thing anymore. All the rosters are so boring.

How about Funky, Beasts & Louie, and Diskun?