Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I have no problem the way Ganondorf is being portrayed, as a heavyweight melee-attacker. However, I just don't like him as a clone. If they can just get his moveset different from Falcon I'd be fine. Maybe throw in a bit of magic, and kicks/punches that aren't "Dark Falcon kicks/punches".

Akumadorf.

....or as another option, M. Bisondorf.
EDIT: You could even, for example, swap out Wizard's Foot for an attack that resembles Psycho Crusher.
It would make the illusion that the move is non-cloned, when in reality it's just the same move with a different appearance.

 

[MAGMIS]

I have no problem the way Ganondorf is being portrayed, as a heavyweight melee-attacker. However, I just don't like him as a clone. If they can just get his moveset different from Falcon I'd be fine. Maybe throw in a bit of magic, and kicks/punches that aren't "Dark Falcon kicks/punches".

I agree and I'm pretty sure he has to be different from captain falcon due to the fact that custom move sets are there make the older version of ganon playable. I know I've said this before but for those who haven't read.

 

[False Sense]

No Parasol
No Vegetables
No Sports Equipment
No jumbo butt

-One move
-Star Bits
-Wand
-I don't think that's necessary.

So, I believe that's one (maybe two?) move that Peach uses that Rosalina couldn't. By your logic, isn't that enough for Rosalina to be a semi-clone?

 

[TumblrFamous]

No Parasol
No Vegetables
No Sports Equipment
No jumbo butt

Hey, I'm pretty sure if Sakurai can add stars to Rosalina's dress, he can add some nice extra padding on her backside.

But Rosalina was never destined to be a Peach clone. And I have to she's my favorite newcomer right now. Her and Greninja are so far this most interesting. I like all of them (I'm a bit bored by Little Mac, but still pretty interesting).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I agree and I'm pretty sure he has to be different from captain falcon due to the fact that custom move sets are there make the older version of ganon playable. I know I've said this before but for those who haven't read.

The custom move set is not to be used to dismiss all clones. Ganondorf is the perfect example of that. While you could change the direction of Lucas's PK Fire and give it an after effect, you can't make Captain Falcon choke and electrocute people and you can't make PK Flash freeze people.

 

[AEMehr]

Sure, but I don't want to debate it, because I've been over it before.

I understand, it's a trend to banter on the same thing over and over again.

• The staff is not relevant to her current character or her current design. (keep in mind irrelevant abilities have never surpassed a single move, so her staff wouldn't really be more than a Final Smash)

[OBJECTION!]
Little Mac's KO Uppercut isn't relevant to his current character nor design either, yet the move is a rather large part of who he is in Smash Brothers. It's more than just one move, it seems like his entire playstyle is somewhat geared towards it.

Sakurai doesn't acknowledge Diddy Kong Racing DS and Star Fox Adventures. So a character entirely based on Star Fox Adventures I do not see happening just for the sole purpose of being slightly unique.

[HOLD IT!]
The only game where he could have referenced Adventures was in Brawl. That never happened because of how Assault was the latest game in the Star Fox franchise at the time (well, with usable models anyways), it's no surprise that they reused Assault's models for trophies. They wouldn't go back and use the arguably uglier models. Besides, the inclusion of Krystal and Tricky as trophies are nods to Adventures as it is. They originated in that game, so Sakurai truly didn't care for Adventures (and I heavily doubt he has anything against it) he wouldn't have included them in the first place. At least he wouldn't put in Tricky, and he still did anyways.
Let's not forget that Krystal's trophy description even specifically mentions Star Fox Adventures so, it is still remembered.

She's purely identical to Fox in both body structure and abilities. More so than Falco and Wolf.

[OBJECTION!]
I concede when it comes to body type, but she can use telepathy and Fox can't. Of course that doesn't matter much in a fight unless she can use it as a counter instead of a reflector...

...BUT A CONTRADICTION IS A CONTRADICTION.​

Btw did you get my Beasts & Louie request?

Yes.

 

[MAGMIS]

The custom move set is not to be used to dismiss all clones. Ganondorf is the perfect example of that. While you could change the direction of Lucas's PK Fire and give it an after effect, you can't make Captain Falcon choke and electrocute people and you can't make PK Flash freeze people.

BUt look at Kirby freezing effect lol shown in the direct video.

 

[Louie G.]

Oh great, a Krystal discussion.
She's certainly not identical to Fox in body, if you know what I mean.
But seriously, I understand how Krystal can be considered a possible semi-clone, but quite frankly Falco and Wolf had as much to go off of as Fox. Krystal has more source material, such as her magic staff of course.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

-One move
-Star Bits
-Wand
-I don't think that's necessary.

So, I believe that's one (maybe two?) move that Peach uses that Rosalina couldn't. By your logic, isn't that enough for Rosalina to be a semi-clone?

You must realize how horrid your counter argument was. That attempt to compare their abilities was clearly desperate. Star Bits don't resemble vegetables or function the same as them. They also don't pluck out of the ground.

The Wand is a fragile stick, much shorter than Golf clubs, Pans, and Tennis Rackets.

If an ability does not resemble or function the same as another, why are you arguing it could be cloned? You could use your terrible logic to make Rosalina a clone of Mr. Game & Watch

- Replace Trampoline with Launch Star
- Replace Bacon with Star Bits
- Replace Bucket with Black Hole
- Replace Hammer with Wand

You realize how ridiculous that would be.

Oh great, a Krystal discussion.
She's certainly not identical to Fox in body, if you know what I mean.

Que the "woo" sound effect from the sitcom laugh tracks.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh great, a Krystal discussion.
She's certainly not identical to Fox in body, if you know what I mean.
But seriously, I understand how Krystal can be considered a possible semi-clone, but quite frankly Falco and Wolf had as much to go off of as Fox. Krystal has more source material, such as her magic staff of course.

Assault existed.
Falco and Wolf could have just used weapons from that as opposed to copy Fox for the sake of copying Fox since his special moves were derived from actions taken in an Arwing.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Oh great, a Krystal discussion.
She's certainly not identical to Fox in body, if you know what I mean.
But seriously, I understand how Krystal can be considered a possible semi-clone, but quite frankly Falco and Wolf had as much to go off of as Fox. Krystal has more source material, such as her magic staff of course.

No, she'd be very unique because of her staff

 

[False Sense]

You must realize how horrid your counter argument was. That attempt to compare their abilities was clearly desperate. Star Bits don't resemble vegetables or function the same as them. They also don't pluck out of the ground.

The Wand is a fragile stick, much shorter than Golf clubs, Pans, and Tennis Rackets.

If an ability does not resemble or function the same as another, why are you arguing it could be cloned? You could use your terrible logic to make Rosalina a clone of Mr. Game & Watch

- Replace Trampoline with Launch Star
- Replace Bacon with Star Bits
- Replace Bucket with Black Hole
- Replace Hammer with Wand

You realize how ridiculous that would be.


Que the "woo" sound effect from the sitcom laugh tracks.

Well, excuse me for being completely illogical, but from the way I see it...

Star bits and vegetables are both small objects that can appear out of nowhere and be thrown at people.

Tennis rackets, pans, golf clubs, and wands are all stick like objects that can be swung around.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

 

[Deleted member]

No, she'd be very unique because of her staff

Even with the staff, she can still function as a semi-clone.

 

[Louie G.]

No, she'd be very unique because of her staff

That's kinda what I said.
I said that I understand the reasoning of Krystal being a semi-clone, but in the long run there's no reason to add her unless she carries around her staff.

Assault existed.
Falco and Wolf could have just used weapons from that as opposed to copy Fox for the sake of copying Fox since his special moves were derived from actions taken in an Arwing.

I think of it this way.
Falco was added before Assault and at Brawl's time maybe Sakurai liked to keep Falco a semi-clone.
Wolf was a last minute addition but he hardly plays like Fox at all.
If Krystal is added I would expect her to be added because of what she brings to the table, not to give Star Fox an unnecessary 4th character.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, excuse me for being completely illogical, but from the way I see it...

Star bits and vegetables are both small objects that can appear out of nowhere and be thrown at people.

Tennis rackets, pans, golf clubs, and wands are all stick like objects that can be swung around.

I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

The wand logic is as much as a stretch as saying Dedede can be a Marth clone because they both swing stick-like objects.

 

[MAGMIS]

Even with the staff, she can still function as a semi-clone.

appearance doesn't cut it, its all about the movelist that char will have. Ganondorf and Capton Falcon totally different. Also Ganondorf carries that sword but doesn't even use it. lol

 

[Morbi]

No, she'd be very unique because of her staff

It is entirely dependent on what Sakurai decides to do; so the argument is irrelevant. He can fallaciously disregard the source material that gets her requested in the first place because he loves space animals to play the same, or he can decide that the staff is what she needs to be unique and set apart from the other space animals. Obviously no one objectively knows what he would do.

 

[Deleted member]

appearance doesn't cut it, its all about the movelist that char will have. Ganondorf and Capton Falcon totally different. Also Ganondorf carries that sword but doesn't even use it. lol

...What exactly are you trying to say here?

I'm lost as to whether you're agreeing with me or not.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I understand, it's a trend to banter on the same thing over and over again.
[OBJECTION!]
Little Mac's KO Uppercut isn't relevant to his current character nor design either, yet the move is a rather large part of who he is in Smash Brothers. It's more than just one move, it seems like his entire playstyle is somewhat geared towards it.
[HOLD IT!]
The only game where he could have referenced Adventures was in Brawl. That never happened because of how Assault was the latest game in the Star Fox franchise at the time (well, with usable models anyways), it's no surprise that they reused Assault's models for trophies. They wouldn't go back and use the arguably uglier models. Besides, the inclusion of Krystal and Tricky as trophies are nods to Adventures as it is. They originated in that game, so Sakurai truly didn't care for Adventures (and I heavily doubt he has anything against it) he wouldn't have included them in the first place. At least he wouldn't put in Tricky, and he still did anyways.
Let's not forget that Krystal's trophy description even specifically mentions Star Fox Adventures so, it is still remembered.
[OBJECTION!]
I concede when it comes to body type, but she can use telepathy and Fox can't. Of course that doesn't matter much in a fight unless she can use it as a counter instead of a reflector...

...BUT A CONTRADICTION IS A CONTRADICTION.​

Yes.

HOLD IT!

Little Mac's KO Uppercut is relevant to his current character and design. He's a boxer, he uppercuts, he KO's. The KO Uppercut itself is ONE ability that has to be charged. Terrible, terrible example.

If Assault stopped Adventures representation, why didn't Command stop Assault representation? I'll bet it was because of how big a black sheep adventures was and Sakurai wants to drown it out just as much as the rest of Nintendo.

You're telepathy argument is invalid too. Toon Link has Skull Hammer, Lucas has any PSI ability Sakurai wants, and Ganondorf has a sword. ]

See now you got me sucked back into this. Lemme outta here!

It is entirely dependent on what Sakurai decides to do; so the argument is irrelevant. He can fallaciously disregard the source material that gets her requested in the first place because he loves space animals to play the same, or he can decide that the staff is what she needs to be unique and set apart from the other space animals. Obviously no one objectively knows what he would do.

That's why we use evidence to make predictions.

 

[MAGMIS]

...What exactly are you trying to say here?

I'm lost as to whether you're agreeing with me or not.

forgot to add the agreeing part in the beginning of my sentence. I totally agree with you.

 

[Morbi]

...What exactly are you trying to say here?

I'm lost as to whether you're agreeing with me or not.

He is asserting that the aesthetic appearance of the character doesn't dictate whether or not they will be a clone. So in the case of Krystal, the notion that she is identical to Fox is irrelevant. Or at least that is what I am getting from it.

 

[Deleted member]

forgot to add the agreeing part in the beginning of my sentence. I totally agree with you.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Why wasn't Greninja made into a Sheik clone? They're ninja like characters that can vanish from thin air, Greninja's water shurikens could act like Sheik's needles, his tounge could be like her chain and he could easily just copy all her other moves and have it make sense, just give him water effects with his attacks like how Ganondorf has dark magic effects with his.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He is asserting that the aesthetic appearance of the character doesn't dictate whether or not they will be a clone. So in the case of Krystal, the notion that she is identical to Fox is irrelevant. Or at least that is what I am getting from it.

It's not irrelevant when combined with the fact that she literally has all of Fox's abilities.

 

[Substitution]

See now you got me sucked back into this. Lemme outta here!

But Saturn, that's where you're wrong.
See, one just can't get out of an argument, I could potentially go on forever. A constant stalemate fueled by the anger of the other.
You can't leave, it's impossible. Just when you think you're out of there, some else pops up.
It's a constant loop of madness and evidence. It was before, and it will be after.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You're telepathy argument is invalid too. Toon Link has Skull Hammer, Lucas has any PSI ability Sakurai wants, and Ganondorf has a sword. ]

The only thing invalid here is your wrong use of the word "your".
*Z-Snap*

Didn't Sakurai make Toon Link a clone because he's Link? Ugh, I'd love to see a Toon Link that's unique, or at least with different properties (kinda takes away from the custom movesets).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But Saturn, that's where you're wrong.
See, one just can't get out of an argument, I could potentially go on forever. A constant stalemate fueled by the anger of the other.
You can't leave, it's impossible. Just when you think you're out of there, some else pops up.
It's a constant loop of madness and evidence. It was before, and it will be after.

How can I be so naive..........I am already dead.

 

[MAGMIS]

The custom move set is not to be used to dismiss all clones. Ganondorf is the perfect example of that. While you could change the direction of Lucas's PK Fire and give it an after effect, you can't make Captain Falcon choke and electrocute people and you can't make PK Flash freeze people.

I want to hear your thoughts on my comment about Kirby freeze effect @ the direct video. SaturnGamer64

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Feels like there's a Krystal discussion at least twice a week now.

---

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Didn't Sakurai make Toon Link a clone because he's Link? .

Didn't he make Falco and Wolf clones/semi-clones for being similar?

I want to hear your thoughts on my comment about Kirby freeze effect @ the direct video. SaturnGamer64

I didn't really think about that. But, that really only applies for Ness and not Captain Falcon. Because Kirby can do that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Feels like there's a Krystal discussion at least twice a week now.

---

So what do you rather want to discuss?

 

[Substitution]

Feels like there's a Krystal discussion at least twice a week now.

---

Well, can't wait for the obligatory "Krystal will be in and Wolf will be out!" discussion we "love"?
I sure can.

 

[Deleted member]

Feels like there's a Krystal discussion at least twice a week now.

---

Don't understand why.
It's not like she's showing up. Especially not while Falco's and Wolf's fates are undeterminable.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

No, she'd be very unique because of her staff

Sakurai: I heard you guys really wanted Krystal to use her staff so she wouldn't be a Fox clone. Well I gave her the staff, and I made her a Palutena clone. Enjoy!

 

[Louie G.]

Rhythm Heaven pls.

What do you guys think about a Rhythm Heaven character?

 

[Substitution]

So what do you rather want to discuss?

I've got one.
We've seen many of the cast gets buffs and re-balances.
Who else needs buffing badly?

 

[MAGMIS]

Didn't he make Falco and Wolf clones/semi-clones for being similar?


I didn't really think about that. But, that really only applies for Ness and not Captain Falcon. Because Kirby can do that.

so people really want ganondorf choking and electrocuting powers cuz that's the only difference I see IMO. All I want is that ganondorf to be really distinct from Captain Falcon.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I've got one.
We've seen many of the cast gets buffs and re-balances.
Who else needs buffing badly?

Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

Rhythm Heaven pls.

What do you guys think about a Rhythm Heaven character?

Support.
Mainly Wrestler, but I'm ok with a Monkey, "Rhythm Girl", Wandering Samurai, Marshal, Karate Joe, the Chorus Kids, etc.

But Wrestler > all other options.

 

[AEMehr]

HOLD IT!

Little Mac's KO Uppercut is relevant to his current character and design. He's a boxer, he uppercuts, he KO's. The KO Uppercut itself is ONE ability that has to be charged. Terrible, terrible example.

[OBJECTION!]
The KO Uppercut belonged to Little Mac in Super Punch-Out!! Not Little Mac in Punch-Out!! (Wii)
[TAKE THAT!]

The move itself is, as I said, a pretty pivotal part of his moveset. His entire gameplay mechanic sort of centers around it. It's more than just one move.

If Assault stopped Adventures representation, why didn't Command stop Assault representation? I'll bet it was because of how big a black sheep adventures was and Sakurai wants to drown it out just as much as the rest of Nintendo.

[HOLD IT!]
I imagine that this was because you didn't cringe when you looked at a Model from Command. Besides the only visual representation that game got was a Falco trophy. It isn't exactly anything to be proud of you know.
Besides why would Sakurai hate Star Fox Adventures?? It's sort of a baseless claim.

You're telepathy argument is invalid too. Toon Link has Skull Hammer, Lucas has any PSI ability Sakurai wants, and Ganondorf has a sword.

[TAKE THAT!]

She's purely identical to Fox in both body structure and abilities.

I proved you wrong here, whether that becomes a part of her moveset is irrelevant. She still can use telepathy, which is something Fox can't do. So she does have abilities Fox doesn't have. Which was why I pointed that out.

See now you got me sucked back into this. Lemme outta here!

[Insert "Don't forget you're here forever!" image here]