Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

The funny thing is that if Rare hadn't been bought out Banjo would've been in Brawl. Heck we could've had a second rep in SM4SH. A shame really.

It's not funny, it's heartbreaking,

 

[Deleted member]

The funny thing is that if Rare hadn't been bought out Banjo would've been in Brawl. Heck we could've had a second rep in SM4SH. A shame really.

We also would've gotten James Bond in Smash, eat your heart out Goku.

Anyways...good time to reveal a retro character with NES Remix 2 coming up, yes?

 

[BKupa666]

Relevant.

Spoiler

Donkey and Diddy would help their friends, but then they'd also get caught in the tractor beam, have one game available on the Xbox or Xbox 360, and then be rotting in purgatory for a decade.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

Relevant.

Spoiler

Donkey and Diddy would help their friends, but then they'd also get caught in the tractor beam, have one game available on the Xbox or Xbox 360, and then be rotting in purgatory for a decade.

That... is... horrible! I WANT MY BEAR AND BEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't care about Conker tbh

 

[FalKoopa]

Banjo & Kazooie would definitely have been in Brawl if not for the Rare buyout. They feel right at home with Nintendo's colourful cast, and complement Donkey Kong very well too.

It's really a shame.

 

[Dark Phazon]

That's not funny, that's heart breaking. He probably could have been in Melee actually, Sakurai had planned to put in a bunch of RareWare related things before the buyout happened, they're even still mentioned in the credits of the Japanese version... Hell, we probably would have gotten a second Banjo character by Brawl.

I wish I could live in a world where Rare was never bought by M$...

Take me with you.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Ridley really is a boss

A little late to be talking in hypothetical. I don't entirely agree that it's senseless for him to tease Ridley as a boss. He's a very popular character outside the context of Smash requests so he probably thinks people will be excited and think Ridley as a boss is cool. Sakurai obviously knows what characters are requested, but I really don't think Sakurai keeps track of how many people request a character. I also don't believe for a second that he wants to take the time to make Ridley's reveal seem like an apology or rather any non veteran for that matter. It's not his job to apologize for every character he doesn't add, that would just be stupid.

Sakurai doesn't really give a ****. The sooner we accept that, the sooner we can get out of our horrible state of denial.

Hypothetically, which Namco Bandai character would be most likely to be in Smash: Lloyd, Nightmare, or a Gundam?

None of the above.

 

[Kenith]

None of the above.

First off, you and Golden are trolling me.

Second, of the three I listed, which one?

 

[JamesDNaux]

All this talk of Rare made me curious as to what they're actually doing. Still making Wii Sports knockoffs for the Kinect apparently...

I took a look at their Twitter and now I'm just crying.
[collapse=]

They haven't forgotten.
[/collapse]
Forget Mega Man, forget Sonic, I would take an entire roster of Miis just to have Banjo on it too. There are many colourful things I want to say about M$ right now.

 

[FalKoopa]

I really don't think Sakurai keeps track of how many people request a character.

Well, how else do you gauge a character's popularity?

 

[Andinus]

What are you, Shokio? I'm taking into account transformations, rather, while my previous roster was 50, it had 55 characters on it with transformations. With those gone and the characters separate, it would obviously bump the number up.

If it was a wishlish, it would have Banjo on it... People told me to stop being pessimistic about the game, so now I'll be optimistic about the roster size.

And he also said that he absolutely hates cuts and likened them to a "near death" experience, I guess he lost two lives with Ivysaur and Squirtle.

Getout.gif Just joking, but I seriously doubt it.

Doubt that too, or any Zelda character for that matter. Would love to be wrong on that though.

"I'm open to suggestions but don't think I'm going to bend over and do exactly as you want." I've already said I think Sal's leak is BS, I'm standing by that.

Hi Shokio, nice to meet you.
I'm so glad that Toon Link is deconfirmed on account of him being a background element on the train.
I was disappointed that Bowser wasn't playable in Melee too, but at least he was a cool boss character.
And man, I can't believe they cut DK from Brawl and turned him into a hazard on 75m, but at least he's back.

Nah, Banjo would make the roster perfect. I doubt a second F-Zero character anyway, look at Goroh.[/quotes]
And I bet he loses a few more,
Look I can see people thinking 45-49 characters being what i feel to be optimistic, yet, still possible/reasonable, but 50+ characters is fantasy dreamland, and a set up to be disappointed if you ask me.

And I bet he loses a few more,
Look I can see people thinking 45-49 characters being what i feel to be optimistic, yet, still possible/reasonable, but 50+ characters is fantasy dreamland, and a set up to be disappointed if you ask me.

 

[JamesDNaux]

And I bet he loses a few more,
Look I can see people thinking 45-49 characters being what i feel to be optimistic, yet, still possible/reasonable, but 50+ characters is fantasy dreamland, and a set up to be disappointed if you ask me.

No need to get all high and mighty there. Just because people seem to think there's going to be a repeat of Brawl doesn't mean there actually will be. Thinking anything less than 45+ is just as delusional as thinking anything 50+. There's no possible way to set myself up for disappointment, I'm already disappointed.

Remember that it's just a game though, don't get all strung up because someone can be more optimistic than you. Nothing bad is going to happen.

 

[Andinus]

No need to get all high and mighty there. Just because people seem to think there's going to be a repeat of Brawl doesn't mean there actually will be. Thinking anything less than 45+ is just as delusional as thinking anything 50+. There's no possible way to set myself up for disappointment, I'm already disappointed.

Remember that it's just a game though, don't get all strung up because someone can be more optimistic than you. Nothing bad is going to happen.

I can agree with the nothing bad is going to happen sentiment, I'm buying the game no matter what the roster is.
And you might be over your disappointment but almost every roster people are making here has 50 or more characters it seems, I'm a little alarmed that people might actually be expecting that 50 plus is what we are getting, and if it doesn't happen, might not give the game the support I already think it deserves based just on what I've seen from news and videos.

And there is no delusion in thinking we might get less than 45 characters at this point. We only know of 29 now, so unless there is a buttload of new/returning character unveils before release there is no reason to think otherwise ( from my perspective), not to mention I don't remember sakurai ever talking about roster expansion being easy, or there is no such thing as limits and balancing, which would be some actual content to actually support people getting carried away with these rosters at 50 plus being posted here.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well, how else do you gauge a character's popularity?

Remembering how often you get requests for it, but still without keeping track of how many.

I don't think Sakurai is as obsessed with requests statistics as we are.

First off, you and Golden are trolling me.

Second, of the three I listed, which one?

None of them are likely. If you don't like what I have to say, that's fine, but it's not trolling.

I hope you're not asking this for a roster. If you're gonna add Chrom, Lucina, and insignifcant characters for the soke reason of being Namco you might as well decorate the whole roster with Blue Pikmin.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Speaking of Rare:
Rare actually did get a franchise into Smash Bros...but it was only represented with items.

There's a reason why the Cloaking Device vanished from Brawl and why the Motion Sensor Bomb got a redesign.

Having Joanna Dark and Banjo would've been cool...

-----

 

[Xzsmmc]

Remembering how that you get requests for it so much, but still without keeping track of how many.

I don't think Sakurai is as obsessed with requests statistics as we are.

Given poor Ridley's fate, I wouldn't be surprised. With how he was ignored in spite of everything, I'm beginning to feel a bit more worried for K. Rool and Mewtwo. While there is literally no reason not include both of them, who knows how Sakurai's mind works?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Speaking of Rare:
Rare actually did get a franchise into Smash Bros...but it was only represented with items.

There's a reason why the Cloaking Device vanished from Brawl and why the Motion Sensor Bomb got a redesign.

Having Joanna Dark and Banjo would've been cool...

-----

Maybe Takamaru's invisibility cloak will be a new item instead.

 

[JamesDNaux]

And there is no delusion in thinking we might get less than 45 characters at this point. We only know of 29 now, so unless there is a buttload of new/returning character unveils before release there is no reason to think otherwise, not to mention I don't remember sakurai ever talking about roster expansion being easy, or there is no such thing as limits and balancing, which would be some actual content to support people getting carried away with these rosters at 50 plus being posted here.

Just take a moment to look at it from a different perspective. Smash is a big franchise, not by size but by value of what it is, there have only been three games in it so far and it's one of Nintendo's biggest. We only get one Smash per console, that's a long gap between games. Yes, anything below 45 will be severely underwhelming, this isn't CoD where they **** out a game every other month with only tiny upgrades, there's no point in making another Smash unless it's far bigger and better than the last. You keep talking as if this whole thing is on Sakurai's shoulders, but it isn't, he's got Namco Bandai working for him, people who have made fighting games with large and varied rosters, people with experience who know what they're doing, and Sakurai knows that Smash is a special thing. Even if you think that he would reach some kind of limit, Nintendo will just continue to give him the resources he needs, it's why Namco is there in the first place.

I'm not telling you to stop being pessimistic, but I'm expecting at least 50 characters. Any less is no skin off my back, but it sure wouldn't convince me to buy it.

 

[Andinus]

Just take a moment to look at it from a different perspective. Smash is a big franchise, not by size but by value of what it is, there have only been three games in it so far and it's one of Nintendo's biggest. We only get one Smash per console, that's a long gap between games. Yes, anything below 45 will be severely underwhelming, this isn't CoD where they **** out a game every other month with only tiny upgrades, there's no point in making another Smash unless it's far bigger and better than the last. You keep talking as if this whole thing is on Sakurai's shoulders, but it isn't, he's got Namco Bandai working for him, people who have made fighting games with large and varied rosters, people with experience who know what they're doing, and Sakurai knows that Smash is a special thing. Even if you think that he would reach some kind of limit, Nintendo will just continue to give him the resources he needs, it's why Namco is there in the first place.

I'm not telling you to stop being pessimistic, but I'm expecting at least 50 characters. Any less is no skin off my back, but it sure wouldn't convince me to buy it.

Again I say to that I don't think roster size vs balancing issues is just something you can necessarily throw money at and expect to be fixed, there has to be realistic limits, do you honestly envision a Smash that has 100 plus characters someday?
I'm drawing my conclusions with the information we have, not with what some people automatically expect the next smash to be.

I'm sure that sakurai understands the issues with characters driving the game etc, and I'm sure he stresses about it, but the reason I think he is talking about limits, what is feasible, the difficulty of adding characters, pushing the game in a new direction etc, now is because he doesn't want people be expecting such an expansive roster compared to previous titles.
and talk about not wanting to cut characters is not a reason to believe that he won't cut characters, i think it's a way for him to apologize for doing what he knows he has to do.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Given poor Ridley's fate, I wouldn't be surprised. With how he was ignored in spite of everything, I'm beginning to feel a bit more worried for K. Rool and Mewtwo. While there is literally no reason not include both of them, who knows how Sakurai's mind works?

I can't comprehend any reason to not have Mewtwo. If for a newcomer, yes, but there are characters you can replace in favor of him like Lucario and Charizard if you're not concerned about leaving out such an important Pokemon.

King K. Rool on the other hand has reasons to be left out.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again I say to that I don't think roster size vs balancing issues is just something you can necessarily throw money at and expect to be fixed, there has to be realistic limits, do you honestly envision a Smash that has 100 plus characters someday?
I'm drawing my conclusions with the information we have, not with what some people automatically expect the next smash to be.

I'm sure that sakurai understands the issues with characters driving the game etc, and I'm sure he stresses about it, but the reason I think he is talking about limits, what is feasible, the difficulty of adding characters etc, now is because he doesn't want people be expecting such an expansive roster compared to previous titles.
and talk about not wanting to cut characters is not a reason to believe that he won't cut characters, i think it's a way for apologizing for doing what he knows he has to do.

This isn't an issue of throwing money around, he has a larger team, do you understand that he has more manpower to make this game? That this game has been in development for longer than Brawl was? That the SSE took up more than half of development and this time he doesn't have that hindering progress? There are realistic limits, and those limits are what can be accomplished and surpassed with the right devotion. Could I honestly envision Smash with 100 characters? Yes, I could actually. But by the time that happens, we'll be on the Super Nintendo Wii U 64 Boy System DS and with that kind of technology people will be laughing at the fact that something like the N64 even existed. But I'll be dead, and Sakurai will be long gone by then. You really think game development is some extremely difficult thing, don't you? For regular people like us, it certainly is, but these are experienced veterans who have done this time and time again. There are no limits by that standard, if a man can go to the moon, then a damn video game with a 100 character roster is child's play. Again, Sakurai spoke of limits before he had Namco, before he had a team to help him make the game, back when he tried balancing the game by himself, but he's realized that a single person can't do it. He's letting Namco help more than he ever let HAL or Game Arts help. More characters is certainly more work, and that's the point where you just add more manpower.

 

[TumblrFamous]

This isn't an issue of throwing money around, he has a larger team, do you understand that he has more manpower to make this game? That this game has been in development for longer than Brawl was? That the SSE took up more than half of development and this time he doesn't have that hindering progress? There are realistic limits, and those limits are what can be accomplished and surpassed with the right devotion. Could I honestly envision Smash with 100 characters? Yes, I could actually. But by the time that happens, we'll be on the Super Nintendo Wii U 64 Boy System DS and with that kind of technology people will be laughing at the fact that something like the N64 even existed. But I'll be dead, and Sakurai will be long gone by then. You really think game development is some extremely difficult thing, don't you? For regular people like us, it certainly is, but these are experienced veterans who have done this time and time again. There are no limits by that standard, if a man can go to the moon, then a damn video game with a 100 character roster is child's play. Again, Sakurai spoke of limits before he had Namco, before he had a team to help him make the game, back when he tried balancing the game by himself, but he's realized that a single person can't do it. He's letting Namco help more than he ever let HAL or Game Arts help. More characters is certainly more work, and that's the point where you just add more manpower.

Bolded the parts where I think you should really focus on.

 

[Deleted member]

First off, you and Golden are trolling me.

Second, of the three I listed, which one?

Wasn't aware that stating the truth is trolling.

You asked a hypothetical on which Bamco character is most likely, then listed three possible options. To which the answer "none of the above" is apt. As none of the three listed are the most likely.
If you specifically wanted to have those three as the only options, you should have said "Out of these three" in your initial question.


And since you're making a stink about an answer, Lloyd.
Gundam is not likely at all, leaving Lloyd and Nightmare the only viable options (at least I think you said Nightmare....)
Out of those two, we have the Tales director interested in the idea of having a character in Smash, and we have Sakurai not finding interest in fighting game characters.
Therefore, Lloyd is the most likely of the three.
But in the grand scheme of things, he's not the most likely Bamco character in general. That would be Pac-Man.

 

[Louie G.]

I honestly think that we could be looking at a roster that's potentially larger than 50 slots.
When we had transformations on our rosters, the character count was typically around 51-55 (basically including transformations). That being said, since transformations aren't around anymore we could easily get a roster of 50 or higher. I mean, we had been speculating it this whole time and nobody noticed. Now the rosters are the same size as they've been?
Pokémon has moved down from 6 to 5 characters on most rosters?
There's something wrong there.

 

[False Sense]

I honestly think that we could be looking at a roster that's potentially larger than 50 slots.
When we had transformations on our rosters, the character count was typically around 51-55 (basically including transformations). That being said, since transformations aren't around anymore we could easily get a roster of 50 or higher. I mean, we had been speculating it this whole time and nobody noticed. Now the rosters are the same size as they've been?
Pokémon has moved down from 6 to 5 characters on most rosters?
There's something wrong there.

I'm not really sure about that. While I do think that it's quite probable for us to get a roster of roughly 45-50 characters, I have a hard time believing we'd get much more than that. As it is, we've only seen six new characters. One of the games comes out this summer. Unless they reveal a surplus of new characters (I'd say more than three) at E3, or if they just have a ridiculous amount of secret characters, it would seem that we aren't going to get as many characters compared to previous installments. Which does make sense, really, since there aren't that many big Nintendo characters left to add, and adding characters is a lot of work. Just going off what we have, I don't think a 50+ roster is that likely.

Although I also don't think we're only going to see a roster equal or just slightly bigger than the one in Brawl. I'm expecting a moderate increase, but not a huge or small one.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Bolded the parts where I think you should really focus on.

I'm not quite sure I follow, do you mean I should explain it better?

I honestly think that we could be looking at a roster that's potentially larger than 50 slots.
When we had transformations on our rosters, the character count was typically around 51-55 (basically including transformations). That being said, since transformations aren't around anymore we could easily get a roster of 50 or higher. I mean, we had been speculating it this whole time and nobody noticed. Now the rosters are the same size as they've been?
Pokémon has moved down from 6 to 5 characters on most rosters?
There's something wrong there.

Thank you. My roster was previously at 50 slots, but Sheik, Zamus, and the three separate Pokemon take up development time too, it came to a total of 55 characters. No one batted an eye at it then, but with transformations gone, it's only natural to accommodate the roster, and suddenly there's a problem with that.

I'm not really sure about that. While I do think that it's quite probable for us to get a roster of roughly 45-50 characters, I have a hard time believing we'd get much more than that. As it is, we've only seen six new characters. One of the games comes out this summer. Unless they reveal a surplus of new characters (I'd say more than three) at E3, or if they just have a ridiculous amount of secret characters, it would seem that we aren't going to get as many characters compared to previous installments. Which does make sense, really, since there aren't that many big Nintendo characters left to add, and adding characters is a lot of work. Just going off what we have, I don't think a 50+ roster is that likely.

Although I also don't think we're only going to see a roster equal or just slightly bigger than the one in Brawl. I'm expecting a moderate increase, but not a huge or small one.

24 out of 39. That's 15 secret characters, why does everyone expect the entire roster to be shown off before the game comes out this time? You can bet that there will be a bunch of secret characters. The only reason we knew the whole roster beforehand with Brawl was because the Japanese version came out quite a while before the others, and Sakurai updated the site accordingly after the game's release. So don't think that just because the game is around the corner means that all the characters have been shown off yet, that's the furthest from the truth. We have 29 characters revealed so far, with more on the way come E3. Plus there are secret characters from Brawl who have been shown off and starters who haven't, we have no idea what the starting roster is going to look like just yet.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm...I'm looking at the character selection & you know what I sort of miss? The fighters rendered in 3D rather than a screenshot like in Melee or Brawl

I wish it came back.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Sakurai resorted to character portraits to save himself the trouble of dealing with the animation work.

 

[BKupa666]

King K. Rool on the other hand has reasons to be left out.

Fictional reasons can be extracted from the arse to justify his exclusion, is more like it.

 

[False Sense]

I'm not quite sure I follow, do you mean I should explain it better?

Thank you. My roster was previously at 50 slots, but Sheik, Zamus, and the three separate Pokemon take up development time too, it came to a total of 55 characters. No one batted an eye at it then, but with transformations gone, it's only natural to accommodate the roster, and suddenly there's a problem with that.

24 out of 39. That's 15 secret characters, why does everyone expect the entire roster to be shown off before the game comes out this time? You can bet that there will be a bunch of secret characters. The only reason we knew the whole roster beforehand with Brawl was because the Japanese version came out quite a while before the others, and Sakurai updated the site accordingly after the game's release. So don't think that just because the game is around the corner means that all the characters have been shown off yet, that's the furthest from the truth. We have 29 characters revealed so far, with more on the way come E3. Plus there are secret characters from Brawl who have been shown off and starters who haven't, we have no idea what the starting roster is going to look like just yet.

Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I was referring to secret newcomers. If I recall correctly, there were only four totally secret newcomers in Brawl; Lucario, R.O.B, Toon Link, and Wolf. All the other newcomers were officially revealed before the game's release, even if they weren't starting characters (Snake and Sonic). So, eleven of the fifteen newcomers were revealed before the game's release. My line of thinking is, again, unless they reveal more than about three newcomers at E3, or just have a ton of secret newcomers, I don't think we'll see a roster of 50+ characters. I could be wrong, of course. This is just going off of previous patterns we've seen in Smash, which could mean nothing at all. Honestly, I'd love to be proven wrong, and I encourage you to do so if you believe me to be using flawed logic.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm not quite sure I follow, do you mean I should explain it better?

Oh, I just meant those were your best points that other people should focus on. You're good.

 

[Andinus]

This isn't an issue of throwing money around, he has a larger team, do you understand that he has more manpower to make this game? That this game has been in development for longer than Brawl was? That the SSE took up more than half of development and this time he doesn't have that hindering progress? There are realistic limits, and those limits are what can be accomplished and surpassed with the right devotion. Could I honestly envision Smash with 100 characters? Yes, I could actually. But by the time that happens, we'll be on the Super Nintendo Wii U 64 Boy System DS and with that kind of technology people will be laughing at the fact that something like the N64 even existed. But I'll be dead, and Sakurai will be long gone by then. You really think game development is some extremely difficult thing, don't you? For regular people like us, it certainly is, but these are experienced veterans who have done this time and time again. There are no limits by that standard, if a man can go to the moon, then a damn video game with a 100 character roster is child's play. Again, Sakurai spoke of limits before he had Namco, before he had a team to help him make the game, back when he tried balancing the game by himself, but he's realized that a single person can't do it. He's letting Namco help more than he ever let HAL or Game Arts help. More characters is certainly more work, and that's the point where you just add more manpower.

You are right cuz money doesn't make adding tons of characters to a roster any easier.

So longer development time than brawl, no sse? Okay how about two different versions of the game, or many other upgrades and features that will be included to make up for no sse? The 3ds has something special and exclusive to it, you don't think the wii u version will as well?

So your rebuttal is we can do anything? Anything is possible? You are right, but not everything is probable.

You said sakurai spoke of limits before Namco,
Sakurai again, alluded to limits just 10 months ago (with all his Namco buddies already backing him) and said..
Adding new characters is not a simple addition – it’s really multiplication. The amount of work, adding a character is multiplied and becomes bigger and bigger as you go. We can’t because of the amount of work it takes.

The difference between your position and mine is that I actually have something concrete supporting what I believe, but you have, in my mind, wishful thinking and past patterns that have already been contradicted by what the creator of these games has said. I know I cannot convince that we are getting less than a 50 character roster, and if we somehow get 12 reveals in the next few months that would make my predictions nearly impossible, then I will happily reevaluate my beliefs, but until then I think you are way off, and from what I can see have nothing valid to support such imaginative ideas of 54-55 character rosters.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Sorry, I don't think I was clear. I was referring to secret newcomers. If I recall correctly, there were only four totally secret newcomers in Brawl; Lucario, R.O.B, Toon Link, and Wolf. All the other newcomers were officially revealed before the game's release, even if they weren't starting characters (Snake and Sonic). So, eleven of the fifteen newcomers were revealed before the game's release. My line of thinking is, again, unless they reveal more than about three newcomers at E3, or just have a ton of secret newcomers, I don't think we'll see a roster of 50+ characters. I could be wrong, of course. This is just going off of previous patterns we've seen in Smash, which could mean nothing at all. Honestly, I'd love to be proven wrong, and I encourage you to do so if you believe me to be using flawed logic.

Well, not counting SSB64 obviously, since everyone was a newcomer... But still, for reference.
SSB64: Starters- 8 Unlockable- 4 Total- 12
Melee: Starters- 15 Unlockable- 11 Total- 26
Brawl: Starters- 24 Unlockable- 15 Total- 39
SSB4: ???

For Melee, five of the newcomers were starters, nine of them were unlockable. Compared to Brawl's twelve starter and six unlockable newcomers, with only Sonic and Snake being previously revealed unlockables due to third party status. Just two games is hard to take a pattern from, particularly when they were both at opposite ends of the spectrum. That's just something we don't know, but just the fact of whether a character is secret or not doesn't affect roster size.

Adding new characters is not a simple addition – it’s really multiplication. The amount of work, adding a character is multiplied and becomes bigger and bigger as you go. We can’t because of the amount of work it takes.

The difference between your position and mine is that I actually have something concrete supporting what I believe, but you have in, in my mind, wishful thinking and past patterns that have already been contradicted by what the creator of these games has said. I know I cannot convince that we are getting less than a 50 character roster, and if we somehow get 12 reveals in the next few months that would make my predictions nearly impossible, then is will happily reevaluate my beliefs, but until then I think you are way off, and from what I can see have nothing valid to support such imaginative ideas of 54-55 character rosters.

Need I remind you that you are taking statements as "word of god" from a man who has contradicted himself on multiple occasions beforehand?
Don't you think someone who said that a character wouldn't make a good fighter, then turned around and made him a fighter, would be flimsy on his words?
He has changed his mind countless times, he could have said that ten months ago and then changed his mind the day after.
You might call my position wishful thinking, but I'm looking below the surface, so to speak. This is a man who said Melee was his last Smash and then Brawl was his last Smash, and here we are on the next one. This is a man who specifically dismissed a character and then made them playable anyway. This is a man who knew what we would be thinking when we saw Toon Link on the train, and had Toon Link still be playable. This is a man who knows about Mewtwo's demand, who specifically mentioned him at E3, and knew what kind of reaction would happen with a shadowy figure in a Pokemon trailer. This is a man who's messing with us with both Palutena and Ridley. What do I think? I think that this is a man who set us up to have low expectations only to blow our minds in the end.

Call it wishful thinking, or whatever you like, I'm just looking at this from every angle. Again, it's just a game, I'm not going to kill anyone over it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Fictional reasons can be extracted from the arse to justify his exclusion, is more like it.

Like what?

 

[WonderSmash]

Speaking of rosters.

I'm open to suggestions

Why not Wonder Red? Or Dillon? Or Tin Star? :D

 

[Morbi]

Well, not counting SSB64 obviously, since everyone was a newcomer... But still, for reference.
SSB64: Starters- 8 Unlockable- 4 Total- 12
Melee: Starters- 15 Unlockable- 11 Total- 26
Brawl: Starters- 24 Unlockable- 15 Total- 39
SSB4: ???

For Melee, five of the newcomers were starters, nine of them were unlockable. Compared to Brawl's twelve starter and six unlockable newcomers, with only Sonic and Snake being previously revealed unlockables due to third party status. Just two games is hard to take a pattern from, particularly when they were both at opposite ends of the spectrum. That's just something we don't know, but just the fact of whether a character is secret or not doesn't affect roster size.

Need I remind you that you are taking statements as "word of god" from a man who has contradicted himself on multiple occasions beforehand?
Don't you think someone who said that a character wouldn't make a good fighter, then turned around and made him a fighter, would be flimsy on his words?
He has changed his mind countless times, he could have said that ten months ago and then changed his mind the day after.
You might call my position wishful thinking, but I'm looking below the surface, so to speak. This is a man who said Melee was his last Smash and then Brawl was his last Smash, and here we are on the next one. This is a man who specifically dismissed a character and then made them playable anyway. This is a man who knew what we would be thinking when we saw Toon Link on the train, and had Toon Link still be playable. This is a man who knows about Mewtwo's demand, who specifically mentioned him at E3, and knew what kind of reaction would happen with a shadowy figure in a Pokemon trailer. This is a man who's messing with us with both Palutena and Ridley. What do I think? I think that this is a man who set us up to have low expectations only to blow our minds in the end.

Call it wishful thinking, or whatever you like, I'm just looking at this from every angle. Again, it's just a game, I'm not going to kill anyone over it.

Again, this is from someone that sees the overt contradictions of Sakurai, I don't trust what he says; however, in terms of game-development, OBJECTIVELY speaking, it is more like multiplication than addition. Once you add a character, you have to balance them against every character in the roster. It is the most prominent reason that I advocated for a certain someones omission. A certain someone that WAS cut... Pokemon Trainer.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Everyone's "liking" my post. I'm not questioning that there is stupid stuff to justify King K. Rool. I just want to know what it is.

 

[Andinus]

Well, not counting SSB64 obviously, since everyone was a newcomer... But still, for reference.
SSB64: Starters- 8 Unlockable- 4 Total- 12
Melee: Starters- 15 Unlockable- 11 Total- 26
Brawl: Starters- 24 Unlockable- 15 Total- 39
SSB4: ???

For Melee, five of the newcomers were starters, nine of them were unlockable. Compared to Brawl's twelve starter and six unlockable newcomers, with only Sonic and Snake being previously revealed unlockables due to third party status. Just two games is hard to take a pattern from, particularly when they were both at opposite ends of the spectrum. That's just something we don't know, but just the fact of whether a character is secret or not doesn't affect roster size.

Need I remind you that you are taking statements as "word of god" from a man who has contradicted himself on multiple occasions beforehand?
Don't you think someone who said that a character wouldn't make a good fighter, then turned around and made him a fighter, would be flimsy on his words?
He has changed his mind countless times, he could have said that ten months ago and then changed his mind the day after.
You might call my position wishful thinking, but I'm looking below the surface, so to speak. This is a man who said Melee was his last Smash and then Brawl was his last Smash, and here we are on the next one. This is a man who specifically dismissed a character and then made them playable anyway. This is a man who knew what we would be thinking when we saw Toon Link on the train, and had Toon Link still be playable. This is a man who knows about Mewtwo's demand, who specifically mentioned him at E3, and knew what kind of reaction would happen with a shadowy figure in a Pokemon trailer. This is a man who's messing with us with both Palutena and Ridley. What do I think? I think that this is a man who set us up to have low expectations only to blow our minds in the end.

Call it wishful thinking, or whatever you like, I'm just looking at this from every angle. Again, it's just a game, I'm not going to kill anyone over it.

So, wow, people can change their minds therefore let's disregard all evidence that the person stated that is against what we want? Unless you are a mind reader, this is all just pure conjecture. How do you know what sakuraii has and has not changed his mind about? you make it sound like we can't trust anything sakurai said because, surely he will change his mind.

I mean you could be totally right, but changing your mind about somethings, like a single character inclusion, does not mean you must have changed your mind about broader, harder things like roster size.

I feel like you are just tossing aside what he has said because it contradicts what you want.
Just try to be real for a second, and think about what has been said, I mean I want a bigger roster too, but there is nothing substantial to support me believing in that right now, so I'm not going to let myself hope for something with this game there is no concrete evidence for. I mean why set yourself up for disappointment, when you could set yourself up for a pleasant surprise?

 

[TumblrFamous]

In my opinion of the roster size, there is not enough concrete evidence to sway me to either viewpoint. So, I'm just going to see what happens. Personally, I want a large roster with few cuts and expect one to a certain extent, but I don't have good enough evidence for that reasoning. Likewise, no one has good enough, concrete reasoning for a small roster with moderate cuts.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm so sick of people running out of arguments and resorting to "Well, Sakurai can do it if he wants." or "It's possible." or "He can change his mind." Throwing out hypothetical situations to sound right in whatever form they can.

I always get this when I bring up evidence of why Sakurai would make someone a semi clone and the counter argument is always "Well, Sakurai could up and change how he treats semi clones if he wants to." I don't care about possibilities in a discussion about probabilities.

Nobody really cares about hypotheticals and 'what ifs' when we're looking at probabilities based on evidence. So if you lose an argument, just simply end the argument. There's no need to inform us of what things would be like in your alternate universe.