Character Discussion Thread

[?????????????]

I guess, in a roundabout way, what I'm trying to say is that it annoys me that SSB4 is taking average-popularity characters and escalating their popularity, rather than taking popular characters and working with them.

It's kinda like Sheik. Sheik is undoubtedly only truly popular because of Smash. Sure, she's great anyway, but at this point would people care much about her if she wasn't included in Melee originally? Smash should take Nintendo stars, not make Nintendo stars.

SSB4? SSB has always done that (like with Sheik). Is there a better example than Roy?

 

[NickerBocker]

I always thought Charizard was coming back, whether or not he was with the Pokemon Trainer. Seemed too good to pass up, IMO.

 

[CalumG]

SSB4? SSB has always done that (like with Sheik). Is there a better example than Roy?

The big difference though is that in the past, all of 'those' types of character have either been clones or transformations. That aside, every character has either been massively popular, or an absolutely crucial character within their own franchise. Greninja and Rosetta are neither.

Heck, maybe I'm just nitpicking. Either way, I find these kinds of character frivolous and unnecessary. I've thought Sheik should be replaced with Impa for the longest time, and likewise I don't see the point in characters like Roy who are popularized purely through Smash itself.

I'm just a hater, I guess. Disregard my opinion I suck frankfurters

 

[Deleted member]

Well he wasnt hard to guess after Mega Charizard X doesnt it?

The grammar....it burns.

 

[?????????????]

The big difference though is that in the past, all of 'those' types of character have either been clones or transformations. That aside, every character has either been massively popular, or an absolutely crucial character within their own franchise. Greninja and Rosetta are neither.

Heck, maybe I'm just nitpicking. Either way, I find these kinds of character frivolous and unnecessary. I've thought Sheik should be replaced with Impa for the longest time, and likewise I don't see the point in characters like Roy who are popularized purely through Smash itself.

I'm just a hater, I guess. Disregard my opinion I suck frankfurters

Well, I'd argue that Rosalina and Greninja have their merits. Rosalina has become a more prominent playable character as of 3D World, and her character has provided crucial lore to the Mario series previously only seen in Mario RPG games (in my opinion). Greninja is pretty much the most popular 6th gen Pokemon, so I think it's fairly parallel (though not perfectly parallel) to Lucario's inclusion.

 

[Sobreviviente]

The grammar....it burns.

English sucks, is not my fault.
Viva el español oe, si no quiere debatir vayase al diablo ;D

 

[CalumG]

Well, I'd argue that Rosalina and Greninja have their merits. Rosalina has become a more prominent playable character as of 3D World, and her character has provided crucial lore to the Mario series previously only seen in Mario RPG games (in my opinion). Greninja is pretty much the most popular 6th gen Pokemon, so I think it's fairly parallel (though not perfectly parallel) to Lucario's inclusion.

Rosalina, arguably (though I'd still disagree - I'm just too drunk to go into detail on it right now). Greninja on the other hand? For a start, he's not even had enough time to become popular on his own merits (sure, he's popular now, but based on the Smash dev cycle Sakurai must have started work on him long before then). Besides that, I'd argue many characters have become far more popular than him, if we're talking 6th gen. Maybe it's just a European thing, but if I asked anybody I knew about their most memorable 6th gen 'mon, it'd either be Klefki (ew), Sylveon, or Hawlucha (who appears to have taken Tumblr by storm).

It seems pretty clear that Greninja isn't in based on popularity or uniqueness - he's in because the President of the Pokemon Company sucked Sakurai off and asked him to make it so. There's no way they could've known Greninja would be the most popular (though I still beg to differ) 6th gen Pokemon at the time the roster was finalized.

 

[?????????????]

Rosalina, arguably (though I'd still disagree - I'm just too drunk to go into detail on it right now). Greninja on the other hand? For a start, he's not even had enough time to become popular on his own merits (sure, he's popular now, but based on the Smash dev cycle Sakurai must have started work on him long before then). Besides that, I'd argue many characters have become far more popular than him, if we're talking 6th gen. Maybe it's just a European thing, but if I asked anybody I knew about their most memorable 6th gen 'mon, it'd either be Klefki (ew), Sylveon, or Hawlucha (who appears to have taken Tumblr by storm).

It seems pretty clear that Greninja isn't in based on popularity or uniqueness - he's in because the President of the Pokemon Company sucked Sakurai off and asked him to make it so. There's no way they could've known Greninja would be the most popular (though I still beg to differ) 6th gen Pokemon at the time the roster was finalized.

There's two things I have on that.

1.) The situation of "not much development time" is still very similar to Lucario's inclusion in Brawl.
2.) Ash Ketchum has a Froakie. That is going to make a difference in the long run.

 

[Arcanir]

Rosalina, arguably (though I'd still disagree - I'm just too drunk to go into detail on it right now). Greninja on the other hand? For a start, he's not even had enough time to become popular on his own merits (sure, he's popular now, but based on the Smash dev cycle Sakurai must have started work on him long before then). Besides that, I'd argue many characters have become far more popular than him, if we're talking 6th gen. Maybe it's just a European thing, but if I asked anybody I knew about their most memorable 6th gen 'mon, it'd either be Klefki (ew), Sylveon, or Hawlucha (who appears to have taken Tumblr by storm).

It seems pretty clear that Greninja isn't in based on popularity or uniqueness - he's in because the President of the Pokemon Company sucked Sakurai off and asked him to make it so. There's no way they could've known Greninja would be the most popular (though I still beg to differ) 6th gen Pokemon at the time the roster was finalized.

Your example has something of a confirmation bias as you're using a subset to define the majority. I could ask a group of people who Lucario was and none of them could know, but does that make Lucario not popular? Either way, the thing is, we do know he's extremely popular as we have polls such as Dorkly's that place him at the top of all Gen VI Pokémon (and pretty high relative to other Pokémon), so there's more supporting the idea that he's the most popular Pokémon of his generation then there is something like Hawlucha being in that position.

Also, we have no clue what went on behind the scenes with the choices. Theoretically, he could've waited (and Pizzadudemanguy does bring up a point there), or even Sakurai picked him himself due to liking the concept. Both are completely plausible circumstances, so it's a bit hasty to jump to that conclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

English sucks, is not my fault.
Viva el español oe, si no quiere debatir vayase al diablo ;D

Ah, ok.

 

[TheUnsullied]

I would have never guessed Greninja to be in smash. I was put off by his inclusion at first, mainly because I wanted Mewtwo back in the game so bad and I felt like Greninja's inclusion made Mewtwo's comeback even less likely. I also felt like he was too new, even though I am a huge fan of the XY series (putting 400+ hours into the game and using protean Greninja on my team).

But I came to the realization that Nintendo is not picking iconic characters for this game. They already have their bread and butter mascots presented very well in smash. They are picking new characters based on their promotability which would make Greninja a perfect character to add to the roster.

 

[Baskerville]

Sass should be the next Mario character.

I just realized who you're talking about. Love that game

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I would have never guessed Greninja to be in smash. I was put off by his inclusion at first, mainly because I wanted Mewtwo back in the game so bad and I felt like Greninja's inclusion made Mewtwo's comeback even less likely. I also felt like he was too new, even though I am a huge fan of the XY series (putting 400+ hours into the game and using protean Greninja on my team).

But I came to the realization that Nintendo is not picking iconic characters for this game. They already have their bread and butter mascots presented very well in smash. They are picking new characters based on their promotability which would make Greninja a perfect character to add to the roster.

Personally i kinda think they are picking charcters that can bring something intresting to the table..

 

[Cobalsh]

Personally i kinda think they are picking charcters that can bring something intresting to the table..

Just don't expect the entire roster to be full of new and interesting characters. There's gonna be some boring ones in the mix, and I personally think Shulk and Palutena won't be all that interesting in the game. At least, when compared to other newcomers. Visually, maybe, but nothing interesting under the sheets.

 

[*The Sensus Crustulum*]

Just don't expect the entire roster to be full of new and interesting characters. There's gonna be some boring ones in the mix, and I personally think Shulk and Palutena won't be all that interesting in the game. At least, when compared to other newcomers. Visually, maybe, but nothing interesting under the sheets.

Just wondering, why don't you think Shulk will be as interesting as the other newcomers?

 

[Deleted member]

Going by that logic, doesn't that mean that any leak that had nothing going against it at one point was true? I mean, of course there's nothing to disprove the leak; it just leaked characters that aren't confirmed or de-confirmed for the game at this point. There isn't anyway we can disprove that, unless we get some new information about the game that goes against the leak. But just because we can't disprove it doesn't make it true.

So, I will continue to support Fire Emblem characters who aren't Chrom, even if a certain leak says he's in.

99% of leaks are made-up rumors by people who want to obtain their fifteen minutes of fame by claiming they have information and then revealing what they think will be the entire roster. Salo on the other hand is a credible leaker who has a reputation for leaking legitimate information. We should be paying attention to whatever he leaks for that reason. Plus Salo leaked Wii Fit Trainer of all things, and who honestly guessed her?

I'm not saying you shouldn't support other Fire Emblem characters or give up on them; but there are good reasons why people like me take Salo's information seriously. It's not just that he hasn't been wrong, but right about characters we would have never expected otherwise.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Salromano has already clarified his trusting position:

You seem dead set on convincing everyone this leak is wrong. Everyone's free to speculate. As I've said myself, I'm not 100 percent on my source. But there are a few things I should tackle.

Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Mii Missing E3

I'll be the first to admit, I have no idea. There are literally tons of reasons as to why this person could've thought the trio would appear at E3. But even so, things happen, and not everything always goes according to plan. And Little Mac eventually showed. The guy is still backing Pac-Man and Mii, too. So, much like the rest of the rumor, time will tell there.

Pokemon from X and Y

Again, I don't know. This is what the guy told me, so it's what I posted. I don't know how involved he is in the game's development, or how 'inside' his insder knowledge is. There are, again, tons of reasons as to why he might not have known or been able to say the Pokemon's name. Or even describe him at that. Depending on the guy's involvement, it's possible he was only told about a "Pokemon from X and Y" being in the roster.

Safe Guesses

I see this term tossed around a lot. I honestly don't think there's any such thing. There are no safe guesses when it comes to naming a roster. Wii Fit Trainer wasn't a safe guess, as you'll admit, and I don't know how 'likely' (again, this would be a synonym of a safe guess, which doesn't really apply as this newcomer thing can be pretty darn random) Mega Man, Villager, and Little Mac were, but this guy's 4 for 6 on his E3 leaks so far. Which is pretty darn good.

Leaker Not Leaking Other Things Like Stages, etc.

I don't know, I'm not the leaker. Why is this guy only telling me newcomers? Again, I don't know.

Posting a Baseless Rumor

"First, he didn't say he had a source because he wasn't sure that the source was credible. Of course, this is silly because all new sites post rumors regardless of their credibility."

I'm sorry, I'll try to maintain a crappier website.

Seriously, though, that second sentence is silly in itself. If I get an e-mail from "blahblah@mailservice.com" with a list of characters said tipster claims will be in the game, would you expect me to just run with it without first attempting to verify the guy? If I cared more about hits and less about credibility, sure. But that's not me.

Making Things Up

Let's get one thing straight, and long-time followers of my site will attest to this. I don't make things up. Not for traffic, not for anything. My site exists to provide game news in the most excellent way possible. I don't fabricate information. I'm just like all of you in this, and I'd be pretty pissed off if anyone did something like that. Again, I'm still not 100 percent on my source, but so far he's in the green with his 'leak.'

"In otherwords, Sal's website is very no name. How can you improve searches? Why, have a fake rumor of course. And since he got Wii Fit Trainer right, it's even better. Now you can drive hits to your site."

The site is pretty big actually. More hits would be nice, sure. But we average many more hits than I think you'd imagine per day. It's okay, though. You didn't know.

To Everyone Else

I think my talk with Star, as well as what I've written above, just about sums up everything I can think to say. But yeah. No one has to believe the leak. It's fun to discuss, but being dead set on proving these things true or false without further evidence is not really doable at the moment. Unfortunately it's a waiting game and that's what we'll all just have to do. But I'll tell you now, this isn't something I've gone and pulled out my sleeve for hits. There's no debating that.

Edit: Also, to clarify some more, I've tried contacting this guy for more information. When Star mentioned the leaker being too busy to respond, what I said specifically was that the guy seems to operate on his own schedule, e-mailing me when he wants to rather than what I want him to. Star can attest to that.

I should probably cling to his words.

 

[Autumn ♫]

If I may ask, were there many supported Brawl characters who became Pokeballs and Assist Trophies? Because as of now, it seems like it's happening alot now, with characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

If I may ask, were there many supported Brawl characters who became Pokeballs and Assist Trophies? Because as of now, it seems like it's happening alot now, with characters like Midna and Skull Kid.

Well, I have a friend who supported Lyn to be promoted, and I myself was hoping that we would see Dark Samus as an alternate suit for Samus, but now that just sounds like a lost dream

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://awesomescreenshot.com/0242nszx52

Mewtwo may have ben hiding but this does not deconfirm him

His trailer might be part 2 of greninjas trailer he flys up where charizard was

 

[Substitution]

http://awesomescreenshot.com/0242nszx52

Mewtwo may have ben hiding but this does not deconfirm him

I don't see him.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I don't see him.

Yea it's fake I just relized

Mewtwo was photoshopped in that picture

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of Greninja, do you guys think he'll continue being relevant by the time of SSB6 or would he be irrelevant by then?

 

[Substitution]

Speaking of Greninja, do you guys think he'll continue being relevant by the time of SSB6 or would he be irrelevant by then?

Well, knowing how some characters have lived since SSB64 even long after their legacy has died off.
I don't think Greninja will have an issue.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Depends, too early to tell. But he is the most popular starter, so that's something.

 

[Substitution]

Depends, too early to tell. But he is the most popular starter, so that's something.

I think "recent" would be a better term.
If anything, they all have a fair share of popularity. We're just talking about him more because he's the most recent newcomer.

 

[IsmaR]

They likely began coding/adding him in before the game even released, since the roster was finalized early on.

GameFreak probably knew he would blow up in popularity, or Sakurai just thought ninja frogs were a cool concept.

 

[Substitution]

Admit it. Ninja frogs are awesome.

 

[N3ON]

Just a reminder, there is a specific thread to discuss rumors and leaks. It's not this one.

 

[Joe D.]

You know, Kat and Ana weren't shown. Possible surprise reveal?

 

[N3ON]

You know, Kat and Ana weren't shown. Possible surprise reveal?

There were a good handful of ATs not shown, with several more likely than Kat & Ana tbh.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Just wondering, why don't you think Shulk will be as interesting as the other newcomers?

Probably because of the sword.

 

[IsmaR]

Could have just been showing the base breakers. Oddly enough we didn't Starfy despite being confirmed earlier. Nor Dedenne as a Pokeball.

 

[N3ON]

Probably because of the sword.

To be fair though, the Monado is pretty darn different than any sword currently on the roster. And it does quite a bit more.

 

[FalKoopa]

You know, Kat and Ana weren't shown. Possible surprise reveal?

Considering that Ashley became an AT although being notably popular in Japan, it's an unlikely scenario.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To be fair though, the Monado is pretty darn different than any sword currently on the roster. And it does quite a bit more.

I'm not very familiar with the Xenoblade series, so I wouldn't really know.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Greninja didn't really trouble me. I find him cooler than Lucario, actually. But I was way too off put by soloZard to mind Greninja.
What I did dislike about Greninja is how he recicles yet ANOTHER chargeable B move (Mewtwo, Lucario) and what looks to be ANOTHER Double Team (Lucario). Hope I'm wrong and these two being completely different, though.

Because the trailer started with a bajillion Pokeballs being thrown, I thought it was going to be freaking Pokemon Trainer on the throwing end. -_-

Some hope about an inclusion of Squirtle and Ivysaur still remain because at least they were not seen as Pokeball items. But without the switch gimmick, I could care less. I have P:M for that.

-
Regarding ATs, It was kind of a big let down that a lot of them were repeats of Brawl. What's the deal with that?

-
About Newcomers, I too think they're having a lot of characters who bring something new to the table, but ALSO, characters that kids who played the Wii (or are currently playing the 3DS) will immediately recognize.
I mean, just look at the roster, and the only one that they probably wouldn't recognize, is Megaman.
I don't think this is a bad thing, and I'm sure that the more obscure characters will be left hidden to be unlocked.

-
I was so wrong about Sin & Punishment... Maybe it COULD be Isa Jo or Kachi from the sequel after all, if there's even a S&P rep at all. (Lack of icons mean squat, refer to Boxing Ring)

EDIT: Rocketbelt item that Little Mac was wearing probably rules out a character from Pilotwings, so there goes Lark or Goose, or any other of those guys.
-
The 60fps goal got me thinking if that's one of the reasons why Olimar's been reduced to 3 Pikmin as well. And I'm already wondering if the Ice Climbers will be reduced to Popo/Nana alone now. Or be last-gen looking in order to keep up, or something.


Well, those are my thoughts for now. I mostly hate the bit about no transforming characters. It just killed a staple of the Smash Bros. series to me. But eh... I can get used to living without it, especially because the games are looking FANTASTIC.

 

[N3ON]

I'm not very familiar with the Xenoblade series, so I wouldn't really know.

Well off the bat it can change size, create shields, cause explosions, increase the user's speed, and even give bleed damage.

I think wielding a sword by itself is rarely cause to think a character won't be interesting, I think most people would find Shulk/Isaac/Saki/Takamaru pretty interesting, or at least diverse from what we have moveset-wise given what they can do past just swordplay, or the extent of their sword powers, like in the case of the Monado. Everybody has their opinions though.

 

[Baskerville]

Not to mention the vision mechanic he could use.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not to mention the vision mechanic he could use.

But none of us found out a good way to use it other than to forecast upcoming items.
I don't think he really needs it when he has plenty of other art moves to use.