Character Discussion Thread

[Starphoenix]

goodness i soo did not expect my simple roster prediction to turn into an all out Bananna Dee war I'm gonna guess that stuff like that is common here in smashboards

People like thinking they understand how things work; which makes it all the more fun when characters like Villager, Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina show up.

 

[pikachugamer21]

Yeah... It happens.


Most of the time we don't mean any harm it's just most of us want our opinions heard.

yeah i know i just didn't see it coming I expected Pacman or Krystal to be the ones that everyone disagreed with

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Feasibility =/= likely, friends. There are a whole lot of feasible characters, probably hundreds left. That doesn't mean that they're going to add some schmuck from a series just because. There are different factors that Sakurai has covered. I listed a few of them on the previous page.

 

[Gunla]

yeah i know i just didn't see it coming I expected Pacman or Krystal to be the ones that everyone disagreed with

Anything not regarding Palutena or a series where a new slot/rep is very likely can go sour quite fast.

 

[Morbi]

goodness i soo did not expect my simple roster prediction to turn into an all out Bananna Dee war I'm gonna guess that stuff like that is common here in smashboards

I wouldn't necessarily allude to our discussion as a conflict. We are simply discussing the chances of Bandanna Dee, he was also on my roster, I take offense at the notion that many arbitrarily assert that Kirby's roster selection is already "fine as it is" as that doesn't necessarily divulge into anything technical. It is entirely subjective, that being said, I don't find his chances utterly positive either. He is just one of my favorite characters, hence I enjoy discussing him.

Yes, but the character Waddle Dee itself, in it's most important appearances, has basically been the new guy.

If he didn't have that, I doubt he would have the support he has now.

I will give you that, but again, I don't find it entirely pertinent as he DOES have support. I don't disagree, that is probably the predominant reason that he actually has some followers, I assure you, I am not one of them. I am actually a fan that is just enjoying speculation. I am not delusional; however, I still have difficultly attempting to comprehend any negatives in regards to this character that do not insinuate that "Kirby doesn't need another representative."

 

[Starcutter]

Bandana Dee on the other hand has practically no one going against him, except for a couple one-shot villains like Magalor or Marx.(unless for some reason Sakurai wants to go with a retro Kirby newcomer like Gooey or Adeline.)

DARK. ****ING. MATTER.


There's the biggest competition there.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You know, this whole Bandanna Dee debate makes me curious as to how people would react in the hypothetical scenario where he was playable. Hmmmmm....

 

[YoshiandToad]

You know, this whole Bandanna Dee debate makes me curious as to how people would react in the hypothetical scenario where he was playable. Hmmmmm....

Rage. Then a moment of clarity and then everyone would praise Sakurai for his genius and say it was an obvious choice.

See the various Wii Fit Trainer and Rosalina's reactions for details.

You all sicken me.

 

[Starphoenix]

Yes, but the character Waddle Dee itself, in it's most important appearances, has basically been the new guy.

If he didn't have that, I doubt he would have the support he has now.

Didn't stop Rosalina.

 

[Gunla]

You know, this whole Bandanna Dee debate makes me curious as to how people would react in the hypothetical scenario where he was playable. Hmmmmm....

Some of us would certainly be pleased. Others, not so much. Lots of rage and lots of salt abound.

Spoiler

I don't really like the arguement that a "series is complete". Because there's a lot of people out there who thought Mario was pretty complete and wasn't getting a new rep for 4 pre-Rosetta, including myself. Yes, it's a case by case basis, but judging on a whim really can dilute an opinion. I certainly see heavy opposition for BWD, and reasons he can be possible (not just feasible.)

 

[Chandeelure]

You know, this whole Bandanna Dee debate makes me curious as to how people would react in the hypothetical scenario where he was playable. Hmmmmm....

Probably every person here would magically transform in a Bandana Dee supporter and would say he was likely all the time.
Just like with Rosalina.

 

[pikachugamer21]

Fairly common.

Some just dislike suggestions outside the Smashboards Elite Four(Ridley, King K. Rool, Little Mac, Palutena), the fan favourite retro of Takamaru, the returning Melee vet of Mewtwo, and then a toss up between Shulk or Isaac. Sometimes Dixie is allowed to be acceptable too. Sometimes.

For gods sake don't even get us started on the Roy Vs. Chrom debates. You think Bandana Dee is heated, wait for Fire Emblem talk.

oh believe me I'm completely aware of how intense those debates are so i hope those Roy supporter's don't see my roster

(runs and hides)

 

[N3ON]

But why does Kirby need another rep? It's not like there are any characters close to the importance of the existing three. It's not like there are any character close to the popularity of the existing three.
The character most suggested has had a notable role as the fourth playable character literally once, and the rest of his appearances have been relatively minor or background. That's like... one step up from Nabbit.

So what is the necessity? Because there are feasible options left? That doesn't equal necessity. That doesn't even equal likelihood. Mario still has tons of feasible options left, most series do. Because we're bound to be getting another Kirby character? No, it's not impossible, but it's hardly a likely situation, we've already got the main three, and no character left in the series is even close to them.

We haven't even got a Zelda character other than different forms of the "main three", and they have supporting characters of more importance and popularity than Kirby does, not to mention it's a much bigger series.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

No; there is no aspect of prior knowledge or evidence, it is a subjective assumption that you are basing on empirical data.

When I said prior knowledge, I meant prior knowledge about game series' themselves and not Smash specifically.
And I mean "evidence" as in what the Smash fan base calls evidence. For example, a character having multiple appearances.

Just wanted to clear this out for you.

God, this Bandana Dee debates are so unnecessary.
It's so repetitive and has the same crappy arguments like Kirby doesn't need another character or he is a Waddle Dee with a hat.
It's just...lame.

I wouldn't seem the "Kirby newcomer is unnecessary" argument as "crappy."
I think it is an OK and valid point to make.

Other series' like Kid Icarus, F-Zero, and Metroid still need to get their main characters in. Kirby already has it's main trio, and the series should wait for the rest of the franchises to get their main characters, then everyone can start bringing in side characters.

The day dark matter is confirmed is the day I'd avoid Chandelure.

The idea of a swordsman Dark Matter disgusts me.
People are complaining about too many blue-haired swordsman.
THIS IS GUY IS A COMPLETELY BLUE SWORDSMAN!
So by Smashboards logic he would be a Marth clone, maybe with some sort of Dark Magic effect like how Roy had fire.

 

[Gunla]

Probably every person here would magically transform in a Bandana Dee supporter and would say he was likely all the time.
Just like with Rosalina.

I'm going to admit that I believed Mario was not getting any newcomer at all this time around. I certainly did not see it coming, but Sakurai worked something out of it. There's still plenty of people who are not happy BJ or Waluigi was in before her.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

You know, this whole Bandanna Dee debate makes me curious as to how people would react in the hypothetical scenario where he was playable. Hmmmmm....

My reaction:
"Cool! Seems like Sakurai really did think Kirby deserved a newcomer!
And he made a pretty good choice for it, and added a spear-user, which Smash hasn't seem before!
I wonder how he will play?
I guess I'll go on Smashboards and see everyone arguing that Starfox deserves a newcomer since Kirby got one."

 

[JamesDNaux]

So to break up the discussions about how certain characters are likely or not, how about some equally unlikely moveset changes for our favorite psychic kids?

Been thinking of some ways to make Ness and Lucas' specials more unique, the main thing I did was swapping out Ness' side and up specials for some moves he actually used, and giving Lucas a new down special and final Smash. Their regular moves would stay the same, so no need to go and detail those as well.

[collapse=Ness Specials]
Neutral - PK Flash: Functions the same as before.

Side - PK Rockin': Fulfills a similar function to PK Fire, but has a larger radius and fans out to hit multiple enemies. It has a similar hitbox to the Ice Climbers' Blizzard but acts as a projectile and also bounces off the ground. A stronger but slightly slower move than PK Fire.

Down - PSI Magnet: Functions the same as before, but can now damage enemies similar to Lucas'.

Up - PSI Teleport: In the air, Ness will slow his momentum and begin to spin at a rapid pace, how long the button is held will depend on the reach of the recovery. Once Ness reaches a maximum spin, or if the button is released, he will disappear in an explosion before reappearing from a portal a distance away from where he started. This move can still be angled to go in any direction, and Ness will still act as a human projectile when exiting the portal similarly to his PKT2 state.

Final Smash - PK Starstorm: Functions the same as before, but has additional properties of Lucas' version. [/collapse]
[collapse=Lucas Specials]
Neutral - PK Freeze: Functions the same as before.

Side - PK Fire: Functions the same as before, but now has the property of trapping enemies like Ness' PK Fire, still flies straight on the ground and in the air.
Down - PK Ground: A new offensive attack, Lucas creates dust clouds on both sides of him that can trip up enemies, has a similar hitbox to Ice Climbers' Blizzard.

Up - PK Thunder: Functions the same as before.

Final Smash - PK Love Ω : Lucas does a similar pose to his up smash, but PSI energy begins flying upwards from the ground, striking enemies directly into the air. Has a very large radius that can only be dodged by going around the side, but can only KO at higher percents. Only strikes in one big wave, unlike PK Starstorm's multiple waves. [/collapse]
It'll never happen, but it's still nice to dream right? Any critique on these? I'm sure there must be something I can change, I was pretty lazy with Lucas' final smash.

 

[Gunla]

I guess I'll go on Smashboards and see everyone arguing that Starfox deserves a newcomer since Kirby got one."

...Serious question, why do people think that Kirby and Star Fox are on the same level? Can someone explain to me why this is the case, seriously? Sorry to say, but Star Fox has been a tad dormant over the past few years, far too dormant in this manner. Not saying it doesn't eventually deserve another character, maybe just a little longer down the line. Series balance is non-existant in Nintendo.

 

[Starcutter]

The idea of a swordsman Dark Matter disgusts me.
People are complaining about too many blue-haired swordsman.
THIS IS GUY IS A COMPLETELY BLUE SWORDSMAN!
So by Smashboards logic he would be a Marth clone, maybe with some sort of Dark Magic effect like how Roy had fire.

Well, no. He's kinda blobby tbh. No FE lord is blobby like that

 

[YoshiandToad]

oh believe me I'm completely aware of how intense those debates are so i hope those Roy supporter's don't see my roster

(runs and hides)

It's too late to run and hide.

Spoiler

I've seen it.

But honestly that whole Roy Vs. Chrom debate is kinda dumb. Both are valid, both are the most popular lords for Smash not currently in the series and both could offer something new...or they could both be clones/semi clones.

I'm going to admit that I believed Mario was not getting any newcomer at all this time around. I certainly did not see it coming, but Sakurai worked something out of it. There's still plenty of people who are not happy BJ or Waluigi was in before her.

It may surprise you to hear I was expecting a Mario newcomer, and although my support was 100% behind Toad(what a surprise!) I honestly thought Bowser Jr. may have obtained it, or maybe Waluigi as a darkhorse. Never even thought Paper Mario had a chance.

Then Rosalina sucker punched me by getting in over three more popular characters than herself. First Smash decision that's actually stunned me. She makes sense sort of...(Galaxy rep) but urgh. Like Waluigi, I still Hate this but that opinion may change when I get to play her.

 

[Morbi]

That is why I amended my point to say the main reason he has support, not the sole reason. This is how popularity trends go; there are always those that support the character because they genuinely like the character, but there are also those that support them because they are a likely character, and perhaps not their first choice, but the only choice they see feasible. As far as Kirby reps go, that seems to be where many fall with Bandana Dee.


We can't pretend to know what or what not Sakurai considers. It's not like Bandana Dee is going to be topping any polls that grab Sakurai's attention.

It's entirely possible Sakurai didn't even think about Ridley and Krystal in a playable capacity during the Brawl-era, so for all we know a character like Bandana Dee wouldn't cross his radar, especially if he thinks his series is represented adequately as it is.


Both of those points are valid, though SF's is a bit of an overstatement. Kirby does already have its principal cast, and Sakurai doesn't expand past the principal cast unless he implements semi-clones (of which it's very unlikely Bandana Dee would be) or if the series is that of Mario levels, which Kirby isn't. It isn't subjective, it's objective; there is no precedent of Sakurai taking from the "next round" of picks for a series the size of Kirby's when it comes to original priority characters.

And if Star Fox was an active series, Krystal would most likely be in a much different place than she is now, but that's by no means the only point against her.


Why? Because he's feasible? That really doesn't mean much, there are an abundance of feasible characters. Because he's next in line for Kirby? That implies Kirby must be getting a new character, which is far from true considering their main characters are all already present.

Oh dear. I want to respond to this, but so much of it seems slightly sarcastic (probably the rhetorical questions), I will just try to address the main concerns. I apologize if I came across as contentious.

I would honestly assert that an inherent quality of consideration might include association, as Sakurai is associated with the franchise and there is an overt character that is feasible, I think is is sufficient to proclaim that if he was rational, he would have contemplated the possibility. Especially if uniqueness is one of the major aspects of character inclusion, which many believe to be the case.

The arbitrary notion "Kirby is fine as is" was subjective, I am not entirely sure what you are insinuating. I didn't imply anything else to be subjective.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I'm going to admit that I believed Mario was not getting any newcomer at all this time around. I certainly did not see it coming, but Sakurai worked something out of it. There's still plenty of people who are not happy BJ or Waluigi was in before her.

The Mario series really makes me think about when a series is "complete" in Smash or not.

It had its 4 main characters, but why was everyone saying there will be a newcomer (which there obviously was)?
Is it because there is such a huge amount of characters to pick?
Or is it because it is such a big Nintendo series that it somehow automatically gets a newcomer?

If it the second one, why doesn't Kirby deserve a newcomer? It is also a pretty big Nintendo series.

 

[SuperBrawler]

But why does Kirby need another rep? It's not like there are any characters close to the importance of the existing three. It's not like there are any character close to the popularity of the existing three.
The character most suggested has had a notable role as the fourth playable character literally once, and the rest of his appearances have been relatively minor or background. That's like... one step up from Nabbit.

So what is the necessity? Because there are feasible options left? That doesn't equal necessity. That doesn't even equal likelihood. Mario still has tons of feasible options left, most series do. Because we're bound to be getting another Kirby character? No, it's not impossible, but it's hardly a likely situation, we've already got the main three, and no character left in the series is even close to them.

We haven't even got a Zelda character other than different forms of the "main three", and they have supporting characters of more importance and popularity than Kirby does, not to mention it's a much bigger series.

I disagree that Kirby needs another rep. But I agree that Bandana Dee is likely. I honestly think Bandana Dee would bring something new to the table. We have never had a spear user. Bandana Dee could also use his Parasol as a reflector and Megaton Punch.

 

[Louie G.]

@ JamesDNaux
I personally hate the idea of Lucas keeping a move that Ness has had since the beginning and causing Ness to change his moveset.
I find that unfair, as Lucas should be getting more changes since Ness is the OG.

 

[Chandeelure]

The fact that some people still think Sakurai add characters because muh reps is really... well, not very smart.
And also, the "necessity" of a character is really subjetive.

 

[pikachugamer21]

It's too late to run and hide.

Spoiler

I've seen it.

But honestly that whole Roy Vs. Chrom debate is kinda dumb. Both are valid, both are the most popular lords for Smash not currently in the series and both could offer something new...or they could both be clones/semi clones.



It may surprise you to hear I was expecting a Mario newcomer, and although my support was 100% behind Toad(what a surprise!) I honestly thought Bowser Jr. may have obtained it, or maybe Waluigi as a darkhorse. Never even thought Paper Mario had a chance.

Then Rosalina sucker punched me by getting in over three more popular characters than herself. First Smash decision that's actually stunned me. She makes sense sort of...(Galaxy rep) but urgh. Like Waluigi, I still Hate this but that opinion may change when I get to play her.

Roy had his chance to shine in Melee so I think it's only fair to give Chrom one as well

 

[Starphoenix]

But why does Kirby need another rep? It's not like there are any characters close to the importance of the existing three. It's not like there are any character close to the popularity of the existing three.
The character most suggested has had a notable role as the fourth playable character literally once, and the rest of his appearances have been relatively minor or background. That's like... one step up from Nabbit.

So what is the necessity? Because there are feasible options left? That doesn't equal necessity. That doesn't even equal likelihood. Mario still has tons of feasible options left, most series do. Because we're bound to be getting another Kirby character? No, it's not impossible, but it's hardly a likely situation, we've already got the main three, and no character left in the series is even close to them.

We haven't even got a Zelda character other than different forms of the "main three", and they have supporting characters of more importance and popularity than Kirby does, not to mention it's a much bigger series.

Because most of those who support Bandana Dee support the individual character and not A token Kirby representative slot that needs to be or not be filled. That's the case for why people support just about any character.

 

[N3ON]

I disagree that Kirby needs another rep. But I agree that Bandana Dee is likely. I honestly think Bandana Dee would bring something new to the table. We have never had a spear user. Bandana Dee could also use his Parasol as a reflector and Megaton Punch.

So because Bandana Dee brings something new to the table means he is likely? Or... why is he so likely? He's doesn't have the importance or popularity of other "likely" characters.

Feasibility =/= likely, friends.

I would honestly assert that an inherent quality of consideration might include association, as Sakurai is associated with the franchise and there is an overt character that is feasible, I think is is sufficient to proclaim that if he was rational, he would have contemplated the possibility. Especially if uniqueness is one of the major aspects of character inclusion, which many believe to be the case.

Well if anything Sakurai's association with his own series have caused him to include other characters over his own, so I wouldn't exactly say that's a point in Bandana Dee's favour. In fact he stated popularity, not feasibility as a reason for even considering some of his characters previous to their inclusion.

Because most of those who support Bandana Dee support the individual character and not A token Kirby representative slot that needs to be or not be filled. That's the case for why people support just about any character.

I wasn't questioning why there was support, I was questioning why people view another Kirby rep as a likelihood.

 

[Starcutter]

and Megaton Punch.

....down throw?



Brutal.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

...Serious question, why do people think that Kirby and Star Fox are on the same level? Can someone explain to me why this is the case, seriously? Sorry to say, but Star Fox has been a tad dormant over the past few years, far too dormant in this manner. Not saying it doesn't eventually deserve another character, maybe just a little longer down the line. Series balance is non-existant in Nintendo.

I am not exactly sure why people think so.
Maybe it is because they are both medium-tier Nintendo series' that have 3 characters in Smash, and are both deemed "complete" in terms of newcomers.

Well, no. He's kinda blobby tbh. No FE lord is blobby like that

Fat Marth for Smash.

 

[Louie G.]

The fact that some people still think Sakurai add characters because muh reps is really... well, not very smart.
And also, the necessity of a character is reaallyy subjetive.

Well, series like say, Fire Emblem or Kid Icarus aren't going to get 5 characters, since they are relatively unpopular/small compared to the others.
So they will likely get 2 or 3. Kirby could warrant 4, but technically the series is as complete as can be with Kirby, Dedede, and MK.
It's the perfect representation for Kirby and I can't see it changing at the moment.
Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise and could warrant half the freaking roster if Sakurai felt like it.

 

[Vez]

I will give you that, but again, I don't find it entirely pertinent as he DOES have support. I don't disagree, that is probably the predominant reason that he actually has some followers, I assure you, I am not one of them. I am actually a fan that is just enjoying speculation. I am not delusional; however, I still have difficultly attempting to comprehend any negatives in regards to this character that do not insinuate that "Kirby doesn't need another representative."

The problem is he doesn't even have support aside from a small group on here. Go to other forums and he's never wanted. He certainly has less support than Toad, and Toad didn't make the cut.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Didn't stop Rosalina.

Rosalina has been a major project for Nintendo if you will. They've been shoving her down everybody's throats. She's become a much more prominent character in Mario titles.

That's a little bit different from Bandana Dee.

 

[Louie G.]

Waddle Dee is one of the more popular characters in Japan, actually.
Although the want for a Kirby newcomer is somewhat small.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Roy had his chance to shine in Melee so I think it's only fair to give Chrom one as well

No, no, we're not doing this. This will become a debate.

I will merely say DLC will allow both a chance to act out said debate with their blades.

 

[Morbi]

But why does Kirby need another rep? It's not like there are any characters close to the importance of the existing three. It's not like there are any character close to the popularity of the existing three.
The character most suggested has had a notable role as the fourth playable character literally once, and the rest of his appearances have been relatively minor or background. That's like... one step up from Nabbit.

So what is the necessity? Because there are feasible options left? That doesn't equal necessity. That doesn't even equal likelihood. Mario still has tons of feasible options left, most series do. Because we're bound to be getting another Kirby character? No, it's not impossible, but it's hardly a likely situation, we've already got the main three, and no character left in the series is even close to them.

We haven't even got a Zelda character other than different forms of the "main three", and they have supporting characters of more importance and popularity than Kirby does, not to mention it's a much bigger series.

I don't necessarily want to be passive, but Kirby doesn't need another representative in the same way that many assert that it does need another representative. The notion is entirely subjective, I am just open to the possibility. It is fallacious to blatantly dismiss something just because it doesn't align with your perspective. For instance, I don't find Shulk likely in the slightest, but I am still aware of the reasons that it COULD happen.

I don't want to dilute this into a "anything could happen argument;" however, it is safe to assume Bandanna Dee isn't JUST feasible.

 

[Louie G.]

No, no, we're not doing this. This will become a debate.

I will merely say DLC will allow both a chance to act out said debate with their blades.

Roy is a perfect DLC character.
An easy character to develop (clone), and can be grouped together with Doc, Pichu, and Young Link for an obvious Melee pack.
If in fact DLC is an option.

 

[Starcutter]

I've convinced myself that dark matter is a better choice for Kirby than banana waffle Dee

 

[BluePikmin11]

What's up with the Deebate?

They COULD take those ideas, but they would have to make an entire moveset from 4 ideas. That really isn't a whole lot. Not to mention, one of those ideas is something that he isn't even associated with, and is something more associated with the main mascot, Mario.

Well I can't imagine Tom Nook planting and growing a tree like the Villager or ride a Lloid, because that doesn't really fit Tom Nook well. The only reason the Tanooki powers fit him is because he's a raccoon, and I think it would translate well to his animal instincts.

 

[Louie G.]

I've convinced myself that dark matter is a better choice for Kirby than banana waffle Dee

They are both notable members of a generic species.
Make of it as you will.
Although Waddle Dee has gotten the spotlight in a few recent Kirby games and a playable role in RTDL.

"Chandelure likes this."
Whaaaat?