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Character Discussion Thread

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Gunla

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I've convinced myself that dark matter is a better choice for Kirby than banana waffle Dee
I'd certainly like to hear your reasoning why. Dead serious here, you've piqued my interest.

No, no, we're not doing this. This will become a debate.

I will merely say DLC will allow both a chance to act out said debate with their blades.
If this is going to turn into a DLC debate, I am not getting involved. I'll pay some money for characters, but not the festival of DLC that is SFxTK. [MY DLC SHOULD NOT COST NEARLY TWICE AS MUCH AS THE GAME ITSELF!]
 
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Mega Bidoof

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So because Bandana Dee brings something new to the table means he is likely? Or... why is he so likely? He's doesn't have the importance or popularity of other "likely" characters.
With Rosalina, Sakurai seems to place "uniqueness" (by that I mean bringing something new to the table) and fun gameplay potential over importance to the series.
This is why Rosalina & Luma got in over Toad or Bowser Jr., two characters that are very recurring and important to the Mario series.

So I guess one could say that bringing something new does make him a bit more "likely."
 

JamesDNaux

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I personally hate the idea of Lucas keeping a move that Ness has had since the beginning and causing Ness to change his moveset.
I find that unfair, as Lucas should be getting more changes since Ness is the OG.
I thought about this, and I know there are people who feel this way, which is why I asked for critique on it. I'm a Ness main myself obviously, so I know the feeling.

But then I was looking at it as a big EarthBound fan, Ness should have his signature move in some form, and the other moves work better for him.

Lucas would still have that same quirky recovery obviously, so it's not like the original moveset is lost, just divided. It's not really unfair, but more just as Ness would actually be changing to represent his actual self more than he did before. Ironically, Lucas still only has PK Love as a move he used himself, I threw PK Ground in there so all four of his specials would be element based. I thought it was a neat idea anyway.
 

YoshiandToad

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Well I can't imagine Tom Nook planting and growing a tree like the Villager or ride a Lloid, because that doesn't really fit Tom Nook well. The only reason the Tanooki powers fit him is because he's a raccoon, and I think it would translate well to his animal instincts.
Honestly I think Tom Nook should have a trapping based moveset to mirror his role in the game.
 

Louie G.

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Honestly I think Tom Nook should have a trapping based moveset to mirror his role in the game.
I had a really cool idea for Nook where he can summon furniture and push it around to trap opponents and prevent recovery/movement.
I should get around to making more movesets...
 

Starcutter

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I'd certainly like to hear your reasoning why. Dead serious here, you've piqued my interest.
While Dark matter doesn't appear in the more recent Kirby games, you can clearly see how he inspired bosses like Magolor soul. In this way, Dark Matter is still very relevant, but in a different way than Bandana waddle Dee.

He lives on through spirit (pun intended)

There's a lot more but I'm sick and on mobile, so...
 
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Vez

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Tom Nook seems like prime clone material to me. And I don't mean that in a bad way to be honest, I think he'd be a good addition if they want to pad the roster out at the last second.
 

Morbi

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So because Bandana Dee brings something new to the table means he is likely? Or... why is he so likely? He's doesn't have the importance or popularity of other "likely" characters.




Well if anything Sakurai's association with his own series have caused him to include other characters over his own, so I wouldn't exactly say that's a point in Bandana Dee's favour. In fact he stated popularity, not feasibility as a reason for even considering some of his characters previous to their inclusion.


I wasn't questioning why there was support, I was questioning why people view another Kirby rep as a likelihood.
I don't really wish to continue this, but I have an obligation to respond. Bandanna Dee's potential uniqueness is merely an aspect that could actually incite his inclusion in Smash 4. Bandanna Dee has other factors going for him, his prominence and prevalence namely. I didn't insinuate that he had the importance or popularity of other likely characters; however, you already addressed this notion by implying that we only perceive characters as likely (they aren't objectively likely). So it isn't a competition (we wouldn't have a lot of characters in Smash if it was based on importance or popularity), they just lend to his likelihood.

The aspect of association is still present, even if it is attenuated. That isn't necessarily the point; if one were rational, and they decided to look at the Kirby franchise for possible representatives, Bandanna Dee is the overt choice. It is as simple as that. If Sakurai actually stated popularity as the reason for even considering his own characters, that is only legitimate reason to oppose Waddle Dee and you probably should have addressed that initially (rather than the whole subjective notion argument).

So I admit defeat, it would be nice to get a source on that though. I believe you, I am just curious.
 

N3ON

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I don't necessarily want to be passive, but Kirby doesn't need another representative in the same way that many assert that it does need another representative. The notion is entirely subjective, I am just open to the possibility. It is fallacious to blatantly dismiss something just because it doesn't align with your perspective. For instance, I don't find Shulk likely in the slightest, but I am still aware of the reasons that it COULD happen.

I don't want to dilute this into a "anything could happen argument;" however, it is safe to assume Bandanna Dee isn't JUST feasible.
The notion is possible, but it's not entirely subjective. Objectively, Sakurai has included the main cast from the series that see playable representation, bar clones. Rosalina is the first exception to this, and isn't exactly comparable to Bandana Dee. Now, this could change, but I'm not dismissing something because it doesn't align with my perspective, I'm dismissing the claims of "likelihood" because it doesn't align with precedent, and with Sakurai's prior perspective and prior methods of inclusion. And again, it could change, but it's changed for a series like Mario, Sakurai's opinion changed for a series like AC; Bandana Dee is nowhere near the levels of these two exceptions.

The only similarity between Shulk and this situation is... you don't find Shulk likely, while I don't find Bandana Dee likely, as if that is the essence of the debate. Shulk and Bandana Dee are hardly in the same position, one is a relatively minor supporting character in an already adequately represented series (as far as its primary characters go), the other is the protagonist to his own series with some level of popularity and impact. If anything it's pretty fallacious to imply this makes their situations comparable.
 

Starphoenix

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Rosalina has been a major project for Nintendo if you will. They've been shoving her down everybody's throats. She's become a much more prominent character in Mario titles.

That's a little bit different from Bandana Dee.
That has little bearing on Sakurai. He's the one who selected her over other candidates who were largely requested over her, and for a series that most people really didn't want to see expanded, yet, she's playable. Sakurai saw an opportunity for a unique gameplay style, and he went for it. Just as he's done for the other three newcomers so far. Weaving together cherry-picked arguments -- not directed at you Jones -- really doesn't mean much when we don't know what Sakurai is thinking or looking at. For people to act like supporting Bandana Dee equates to crazy cultists waiting for Quetzalcoatl to come pick them up in the mother ship -- though I guess Chandelure teeters a little closely to that line -- or are L-Block supporters is disingenuous. I think most people are level headed enough to know not to raise expectations too highly.
 
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Arcadenik

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I think Nintendo is specifically pushing Rosalina for some reason.
Either to draw in more female players with pretty princesses (which is kinda ignorant of women IMO) or because of Galaxy's success.
That... or you know, garnering interest for Galaxy 3... or maybe Rosalina's future own spin-off series based on the Galaxy games so that way Mario does other stuff while Rosalina goes on gravity-defying adventures like Mario used to do in Galaxy games.
 

Mega Bidoof

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I don't really wish to continue this, but I have an obligation to respond. Bandanna Dee's potential uniqueness is merely an aspect that could actually incite his inclusion in Smash 4. Bandanna Dee has other factors going for him, his prominence and prevalence namely. I didn't insinuate that he had the importance or popularity of other likely characters; however, you already addressed this notion by implying that we only perceive characters as likely (they aren't objectively likely). So it isn't a competition (we wouldn't have a lot of characters in Smash if it was based on importance or popularity), they just lend to his likelihood.

The aspect of association is still present, even if it is attenuated. That isn't necessarily the point; if one were rational, and they decided to look at the Kirby franchise for possible representatives, Bandanna Dee is the overt choice. It is as simple as that. If Sakurai actually stated popularity as the reason for even considering his own characters, that is only legitimate reason to oppose Waddle Dee and you probably should have addressed that initially (rather than the whole subjective notion argument).

So I admit defeat, it would be nice to get a source on that though. I believe you, I am just curious.
Please stop the Deebate.

Come everyone.
Captain N.
 

BluePikmin11

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Well it kinda made sense that Mario was Nintendo's biggest series, so it probably got a 5th character for that very reason.
I don't think it's a good idea comparing her to Bandanna Dee.

I don't really wish to continue this, but I have an obligation to respond. Bandanna Dee's potential uniqueness is merely an aspect that could actually incite his inclusion in Smash 4. Bandanna Dee has other factors going for him, his prominence and prevalence namely. I didn't insinuate that he had the importance or popularity of other likely characters; however, you already addressed this notion by implying that we only perceive characters as likely (they aren't objectively likely). So it isn't a competition (we wouldn't have a lot of characters in Smash if it was based on importance or popularity), they just lend to his likelihood.

The aspect of association is still present, even if it is attenuated. That isn't necessarily the point; if one were rational, and they decided to look at the Kirby franchise for possible representatives, Bandanna Dee is the overt choice. It is as simple as that. If Sakurai actually stated popularity as the reason for even considering his own characters, that is only legitimate reason to oppose Waddle Dee and you probably should have addressed that initially (rather than the whole subjective notion argument).

So I admit defeat, it would be nice to get a source on that though. I believe you, I am just curious.
Unless I see a really good playstyle for Bandanna Dee, I probably disagree with the addition of Dee.
 

Shorts

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More or less, what I thinkt the roster will end up looking like:



Of course, I think Tingle could end up being Toon Zelda, but I think Tingle is the obviously superior choice. He kind of is what this current cast seems to be about. Unique, and weird. Takamaru could be replaced with any retro, I suppose, but I think he's going to be the chosen one. Chrom could end up being Robin, and Ridley could end up not getting in. We could also end up with more characters, but this is my best bet on what I think the roster will look like.

I hope I'm wrong on roster size at the very least.
 

Starcutter

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Sakuri chooses people that are requested less than other people if he sees potential?


Dark Matter confirmed
 

Morbi

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The notion is possible, but it's not entirely subjective. Objectively, Sakurai has included the main cast from the series that see playable representation, bar clones. Rosalina is the first exception to this, and isn't exactly comparable to Bandana Dee. Now, this could change, but I'm not dismissing something because it doesn't align with my perspective, I'm dismissing the claims of "likelihood" because it doesn't align with precedent, and with Sakurai's prior perspective and prior methods of inclusion. And again, it could change, but it's changed for a series like Mario, Sakurai's opinion changed for a series like AC; Bandana Dee is nowhere near the levels of these two exceptions.

The only similarity between Shulk and this situation is... you don't find Shulk likely, while I don't find Bandana Dee likely, as if that is the essence of the debate. Shulk and Bandana Dee are hardly in the same position, one is a relatively minor supporting character in an already adequately represented series (as far as its primary characters go), the other is the protagonist to his own series with some level of popularity and impact. If anything it's pretty fallacious to imply this makes their situations comparable.
I didn't insinuate that at all, I merely provided you with an example; nowhere did I indicate they were comparable characters. I feel the desire to make that apparent concisely.
 

Kenith

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That... or you know, garnering interest for Galaxy 3... or maybe Rosalina's future own spin-off series based on the Galaxy games so that way Mario does other stuff while Rosalina goes on gravity-defying adventures like Mario used to do in Galaxy games.
I would play the hell out of a Rosalina game.
Now we just need a Ghirahim game.

Also, to anyone reading this, take a drink every time Morbid says "fallacious" or "insinuate".

And I don't get Bandana Dee. seems like Toad 2.0.
 

Shorts

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Hey @ Shorts Shorts , why Dixie over K. Rool?
Besides relevance, Dixie is a lot less unique than K. Rool.
That statement is pretty relevant to who you're talking to. I pick Dixie for the same reason he picked Animal Crosser. And I don't think Toon Zelda and Dixie are on the same level
 
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Starphoenix

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Sakuri chooses people that are requested less than other people if he sees potential?


Dark Matter confirmed
Nah man, Chef Kawasaki is where it's at.
More or less, what I thinkt the roster will end up looking like:



Of course, I think Tingle could end up being Toon Zelda, but I think Tingle is the obviously superior choice. He kind of is what this current cast seems to be about. Unique, and weird. Takamaru could be replaced with any retro, I suppose, but I think he's going to be the chosen one. Chrom could end up being Robin, and Ridley could end up not getting in. We could also end up with more characters, but this is my best bet on what I think the roster will look like.

I hope I'm wrong on roster size at the very least.
I could live with that roster, though I'd hope we'd see at least another couple of surprise additions, hopefully. I guess Pac-Man would be surprising if I wasn't already watching for him.
 
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Morbi

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You mean recent, right?
Those words are interchangeable on Smashboards from what I have witnessed. In fact, one person actually asserted that I used relevance incorrectly as it wasn't pertinent to the notion of recency. Dear lord...

More or less, what I thinkt the roster will end up looking like:



Of course, I think Tingle could end up being Toon Zelda, but I think Tingle is the obviously superior choice. He kind of is what this current cast seems to be about. Unique, and weird. Takamaru could be replaced with any retro, I suppose, but I think he's going to be the chosen one. Chrom could end up being Robin, and Ridley could end up not getting in. We could also end up with more characters, but this is my best bet on what I think the roster will look like.

I hope I'm wrong on roster size at the very least.
I agree, the roster would look something like this, but do you truly believe that Sakurai would replace Snake with Pac-Man?
 

Arcadenik

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That statement is pretty relevant to who you're talking to. I pick Dixie for the same reason he picked Animal Crosser. And I don't think Toon Zelda and Dixie are on the same level
I am just bracing myself for in case Sakurai confirms a Nintendog puppy as a playable character for the same reason he finally added the Villager.

 

Shorts

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I could live with that roster, though I'd hope we'd see at least another couple of surprise additions, hopefully.
Its hard to imagine being able to now, suddenly predict the roster when every step of the way weve been plainly incorrect. So you're probably going to get your wish. I do think there are just some characters (as well as "slots") that are just going to happen.

I agree, the roster would look something like this, but do you truly believe that Sakurai would replace Snake with Pac-Man?
Yep.

@ Arcadenik Arcadenik

I would hope we have a Tabby costume
 
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Arcadenik

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Yes! It would be pretty hilarious if Nintendog's alternate costume is Sakurai's cat. :troll:
 

Gunla

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Pac-Man wouldn't be surprising since everyone knows that Namco Bandai is developing this, Pac-Man wouldn't be much of a surprise.
From previous statements Sakurai has noted, he'd be very surprising to me. "Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros
 
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Arcadenik

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Pac-Man wouldn't be surprising since everyone knows that Namco Bandai is developing this game.
Well, he would be surprising to the haters and dissidents... especially the ones who say he is boring and not unique.
 
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