Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

From previous statements Sakurai has noted, he'd be very surprising to me. "Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

I am fairly certain that Pac-Man is considered a "very special situation."

This is further demonstrated by the notion that Namco is actually co-developing the game. Thus, the situation is special and the character in question is special. That being said...

"The Pac is ba-aack!"

 

[BluePikmin11]

"Just because the game is being cooperatively developed with Namco Bandai involved, that doesn’t at all mean that they’d be given any special consideration for having characters in the game," Sakurai said. "Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation."

See the bold, it simply means there won't be multiple Namco characters in the roster. Pac-Man has a chance still.
Also, it says Smash Bros could be still a considered collection of Nintendo characters, which leads me to thinking Smash Bros. is more of a Nintendo crossover than a videogame one.

 

[Shorts]

Pac-Man wouldn't be surprising since everyone knows that Namco Bandai is developing this game.

Well, it pretty much comes down to that, and the other can of worms.

Fake or not fake leak. Which is a huge argument I'm not interested in having.

 

[N3ON]

With Rosalina, Sakurai seems to place "uniqueness" (by that I mean bringing something new to the table) and fun gameplay potential over importance to the series.
This is why Rosalina & Luma got in over Toad or Bowser Jr., two characters that are very recurring and important to the Mario series.

So I guess one could say that bringing something new does make him a bit more "likely."

Well first off, Rosalina's importance to her series, even if substantially inferior to the existing four Mario characters, is still a whole lot more than Bandana Dee's to Kirby. Not to mention she did have fairly strong levels of popularity in Japan.

Regardless, it's highly likely she wouldn't have been included if she wasn't part of the Mario series, which is so large and prominent enough it can afford to choose the next tier of candidates and still have them be relatively on par with more high-profile characters with other series. Yes, uniqueness was probably a factor in getting Rosalina included, but the series she belonged to also must've been a huge element as well.

I don't really wish to continue this, but I have an obligation to respond. Bandanna Dee's potential uniqueness is merely an aspect that could actually incite his inclusion in Smash 4. Bandanna Dee has other factors going for him, his prominence and prevalence namely. I didn't insinuate that he had the importance or popularity of other likely characters; however, you already addressed this notion by implying that we only perceive characters as likely (they aren't objectively likely). So it isn't a competition (we wouldn't have a lot of characters in Smash if it was based on importance or popularity), they just lend to his likelihood.

The aspect of association is still present, even if it is attenuated. That isn't necessarily the point; if one were rational, and they decided to look at the Kirby franchise for possible representatives, Bandanna Dee is the overt choice. It is as simple as that. If Sakurai actually stated popularity as the reason for even considering his own characters, that is only legitimate reason to oppose Waddle Dee and you probably should have addressed that initially (rather than the whole subjective notion argument).

So I admit defeat, it would be nice to get a source on that though. I believe you, I am just curious.

I'm not looking for "defeat" to be admitted, this isn't a competition, I'm just stressing that Bandana Dee has much less in his favour than people attribute to him. Yes, he has potential. Yes, he is one of the most prevalent Kirby characters left. But that's it. His "prominence" and "prevalence" are noteworthy in a sole game in the entire Kirby series, and they still play a backseat role to the three already included, yet people think that's enough to elevate him to the standards of Smash inclusion. People seem to be assuming just because he's at the top of the remaining candidates he's actually a likely one, as if the huge drop-off between the three we have and the remaining Kirby choices is non-existent, or as if being an original character makes up for that huge gap. As if Sakurai is just going to keep taking from series even when their main cast has already been included because he did once for the biggest series.

I see no reason why Bandana Dee should be treated as anything more than an outside shot. The implication that Sakurai would even look for another Kirby rep is a bit of a faulty one, especially since by and large Sakurai doesn't look for "series reps" he looks for character themselves, and let's be honest - while feasible, while spear-wielding, that's about all Bandana Dee can offer. It's not exactly on par with what we've got so far in terms of character notability or importance. Not to mention it would presume Sakurai has a bias towards his own inclusions, which by now should be fairly common knowledge that he doesn't.

Like I said, it stems down to people advocating for Bandana Dee, maybe because they like him as well, but primarily because he's the next in line for a Kirby rep, as you now have stated yourself. But the thing is, the line doesn't need to continue when there's no characters that still warrant addition when compared to other additions. Yes, Bandana Dee is the overt choice for the next Kirby rep. But that doesn't make him a likely choice by any means. Next in line and importance/popularity don't necessarily go hand in hand, and the latter is what Sakurai has based inclusion on previously. It's not like a new Mario character was planned for Brawl.

At this point I don't have much more to add in regards to the topic either though.

You'll find the source in the info/development thread, I believe it's one of the Melee-related IGN articles. Sakurai states he passed on MK, despite his popularity for characters he didn't create.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Be still my heart...

Best fix.

Sorry Scat. Although you also like Toad, so I'm not THAT sorry.

Kamek.


For some weird reason I'm the only one who expects him

I'm not expecting him, but I'm really warming upto the possibility. I'd expect a Yoshi newcomer more if Sakurai didn't always reveal Yoshi last out of the Smash 64 starter vets. Get the feeling he doesn't view it as on par with the other series for some keraaazy reason.

 

[Starcutter]

Don't like PAC man. His design doesn't fit in for me.

Its odd, since there's so many characters who people say "wouldn't fit" that I have never Seen before and yet many of those fit in for me.


I say put Klonoa in, and have classic PAC man as an assist. That way he's in twice, once on klonoas hat and once as an assist.

 

[Gunla]

"The Pac is ba-aack!"

...Let's not have this start again, please?

Fake or not fake leak. Which is a huge argument I'm not interested in having.

In addition, can we not start pulling out the leak as evidence to his or not to his inclusion?

 

[Morbi]

Well first off, Rosalina's importance to her series, even if substantially inferior to the existing four Mario characters, is still a whole lot more than Bandana Dee's to Kirby. Not to mention she did have fairly strong levels of popularity in Japan.

Regardless, it's highly likely she wouldn't have been included if she wasn't part of the Mario series, which is so large and prominent enough it can afford to choose the next tier of candidates and still have them be relatively on par with more high-profile characters with other series. Yes, uniqueness was probably a factor in getting Rosalina included, but the series she belonged to also must've been a huge element as well.


I'm not looking for "defeat" to be admitted, this isn't a competition, I'm just stressing that Bandana Dee has much less in his favour than people attribute to him. Yes, he has potential. Yes, he is one of the most prevalent Kirby characters left. But that's it. His "prominence" and "prevalence" are noteworthy in a sole game in the entire Kirby series, and they still play a backseat role to the three already included, yet people think that's enough to elevate him to the standards of Smash inclusion. People seem to be assuming just because he's at the top of the candidates he's actually a likely one, as if the huge drop-off between the three we have and the remaining Kirby choices is non-existent, or as if being an original characters makes up for that huge gap. As if Sakurai is just going to keep taking from series even when their main cast has already been included because he did once for the biggest series.

I see no reason why Bandana Dee should be treated as anything more than an outside shot. The implication that Sakurai would even look for another Kirby rep is a bit of a faulty one, especially since by and large Sakurai doesn't look for "series reps" he looks for character themselves, and let's be honest - while feasible, while spear-wielding, that's about all Bandana Dee can offer. It's not exactly on par with what we've got so far in terms of character notability or importance. Not to mention it would presume Sakurai has a bias towards his own inclusions, which by now should be fairly common knowledge that he doesn't.

Like I said, it stems down to people advocating for Bandana Dee, maybe because they like him as well, but primarily because he's the next in line for a Kirby rep, as you now have stated yourself. But the thing is, the line doesn't need to continue when there's no characters that still warrant addition when compared to other additions. Yes, Bandana Dee is the overt choice for the next Kirby rep. But that doesn't make him a likely choice by any means. Next in line and importance/popularity don't necessarily go hand in hand, and the latter is what Sakurai has based inclusion on previously. It's not like a new Mario character was planned for Brawl.

At this point I don't have much more to add in regards to the topic either though.

You'll find the source in the info/development thread, I believe it's one of the Melee-related IGN articles. Sakurai states he passed on MK, despite his popularity for characters he didn't create.

I can respect that; in fact, I actually agree with almost everything you stated. However, I would just like to clarify, I do not over-estimate Bandanna Dee's chances, I do find him to be more of the "dark horse" candidate. Perhaps that wasn't as overt as I support him regardless (without discerning likelihood from want).

 

[Shorts]

No we can, because it is.

 

[Starcutter]

No we can, because it is.

Please elaborate

 

[Morbi]

...Let's not have this start again, please?

In addition, can we not start pulling out the leak as evidence to his or not to his inclusion?

I apologize, sometimes I get carried away!

No we can, because it is.

You can always use it for your personal assessments, but you shouldn't cite it as one of the predominant reasons you are speculating for or against something. I suppose you could assert that it is evidence, but again, it is most undoubtedly circumstantial evidence. Evidence that has already been thoroughly refuted.

 

[Tepig2000]

From previous statements Sakurai has noted, he'd be very surprising to me. "Smash Bros. can still be considered as an all-star collection of Nintendo characters. Just like with Mega Man or any other third-party character, it would have to be a very special situation."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06...ters-receive-no-priority-for-super-smash-bros

Just because Namco Bandai characters don't receive special treatment does not mean they can't happen.

 

[Shorts]

Just you wait.

 

[Starcutter]

Just because Namco Bandai characters don't receive special treatment does not mean they can't happen.

Maybe Bandai Namco will get special treatment, since Namco Bandai obviously isn't.

 

[Gunla]

Just because Namco Bandai characters don't receive special treatment does not mean they can't happen.

I'm not saying it can't happen. I do think it's a real possibility. But the fact that they will be treated the same as other candidates is my point.

Maybe Bandai Namco will get special treatment, since Namco Bandai obviously isn't.

I honestly just wish they would just stick to one name.

 

[Morbi]

Just you wait.

I honestly found characters like Pac-Man and Mii to be likely without the leak. That being said, I don't want either of them. I have been more receptive to the notion of including Miis. However, I cannot come around to Pac-Man unless he is the cheese-wheel form.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel that it's a complete "Sakurai" thing to do to give Namco a little thanks by adding their mascot into Smash.
If he could put Snake in for a friend he could put Pac in for the company that's helping him make this game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pac-Man has to have at least limbs to move right. Being limbless would make the character extremely limited.

 

[Louie G.]

Pac-Man has to have at least limbs to move right. Being limbless would make the character extremely limited.

COUGHKawashimaCOUGHCOUGH

 

[Tepig2000]

I'm not saying it can't happen. I do think it's a real possibility. But the fact that they will be treated the same as other candidates is my point.

This was not aimed solely at you. I just think it is annoying when someone says Pac-man is likely and someone says "but he can't happen because what Sakurai said."

 

[Substitution]

Well first off, Rosalina's importance to her series, even if substantially inferior to the existing four Mario characters, is still a whole lot more than Bandana Dee's to Kirby. Not to mention she did have fairly strong levels of popularity in Japan.

Regardless, it's highly likely she wouldn't have been included if she wasn't part of the Mario series, which is so large and prominent enough it can afford to choose the next tier of candidates and still have them be relatively on par with more high-profile characters with other series. Yes, uniqueness was probably a factor in getting Rosalina included, but the series she belonged to also must've been a huge element as well.

Might as well throw my hat in the ring.
Personally, when people we're talking about her, I was against her inclusion. Why?

First was moveset potential. Well, more the lack of it.
There was nothing to go by, nothing (IMO at least). Even characters like Sonic, with his moveset, at least had something to go by. I couldn't see Rosalina as something more than a Peach semi-clone. There was nothing that could make her unique. Think of it, she barely had any appearances to begin with, and there are other characters that would've fit that better.

Another thing was representation, we already have the big 4, why have another? There's no reason to add a fifth. It'd be like adding more chocolate to a chocolate cake. What's the point?
The only character I saw was Dr. Mario. But that's mostly due to him being in Melee.

Finally, why? Why is she more important than other, more notable Mario characters.
She only a supporting role in one of the major games (before anyone brings up her playable appearance in SB3DW mind you this was all before that), not to mention a cameo in another. The only other thing she had was the spin-off games. But with that, Waluigi or Daisy would've been a shoe-in by now.

That was just so much against her, I'd just laugh it off as a hopeless dream.
Then came December. And her trailer appeared for the first time. I'd admit I didn't believe it.
Then I sat down and watched it. It was weird for me, a character who I though had nothing somehow got in.
And, while I'm still kinda "meh" about her inclusion, I at least respect her more than before.

So? What does this have to do with Bandanna Dee?
Simple, while many know I'm not much into him, I at least see he has a chance. Think about it.
He comes from a popular franchise, he has moveset potential, and something to set him apart from the others. Sure, he isn't represented much. But, then again, so didn't Rosalina.

 

[BluePikmin11]

COUGHKawashimaCOUGHCOUGH

At least he has hands so he can punch. But he does have lots of educational things with his side that could be used for attacks that he doesn't really need hands.
Pac-Man though, all you can take from the classic Pac-Man games is the Pac-dots, ghosts, and the power pellet. So his moveset is pretty limited actually. It's not to say I'm against Pac-Man though.

 

[N3ON]

COUGHKawashimaCOUGHCOUGH

Just because someone brings up a character enough doesn't actually make them that much of a better choice...

 

[Louie G.]

Just because someone brings up a character enough doesn't actually make them that much of a better choice...

I was coughing towards Blue to say that Kawashima has no limbs either.
Since Blue loves Kawashima. I personally dislike the idea, I'm just messing around with a friend.

 

[Gunla]

This was not aimed solely at you. I just think it is annoying when someone says Pac-man is likely and someone says "but he can't happen because what Sakurai said."

My apologies if I came off like that, truly. I believe that Pac has a shot, as much as myself wants to say no and burn his new design, and he is a bit of a special case. He's popular, well known and iconic worldwide. Note, completely ignoring Namco's involvement in the game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Just because someone brings up a character enough doesn't actually make them that much of a better choice...

But when many people bring up certain reptiles all the time...

 

[Sehnsucht]

But when many people bring up certain reptiles all the time...

Volvagia confirmed.

 

[Starcutter]

I honestly found characters like Pac-Man and Mii to be likely without the leak. That being said, I don't want either of them. I have been more receptive to the notion of including Miis. However, I cannot come around to Pac-Man unless he is the cheese-wheel form.

THIS.


THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH

I agree entirely

 

[Tepig2000]

My apologies if I came off like that, truly. I believe that Pac has a shot, as much as myself wants to say no and burn his new design, and he is a bit of a special case. He's popular, well known and iconic worldwide. Note, completely ignoring Namco's involvement in the game.

Don't worry guy. You're far from annoying.

 

[Arcadenik]

I honestly found characters like Pac-Man and Mii to be likely without the leak. That being said, I don't want either of them. I have been more receptive to the notion of including Miis. However, I cannot come around to Pac-Man unless he is the cheese-wheel form.

Pac-Man could have the cheese wheel form during his Final Smash.

Let's also not forget that Pac-Man can make his limbs appear and disappear at will... see 0:40...

...so Pac-Man could use his limbs to punch and kick... and turn into a ball to do some arcade-based specials like eating dots and ghosts...

 

[Kenith]

See the bold, it simply means there won't be multiple Namco characters in the roster. Pac-Man has a chance still.
Also, it says Smash Bros could be still a considered collection of Nintendo characters, which leads me to thinking Smash Bros. is more of a Nintendo crossover than a videogame one.

A Nintendio crossover? What universe is this?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Technically Captain N is as (in)eligible as Goku.
Just putting that out there.

He originated in Nintendo Power, an officially licensed Nintendo magazine.

Well first off, Rosalina's importance to her series, even if substantially inferior to the existing four Mario characters, is still a whole lot more than Bandana Dee's to Kirby. Not to mention she did have fairly strong levels of popularity in Japan.

Regardless, it's highly likely she wouldn't have been included if she wasn't part of the Mario series, which is so large and prominent enough it can afford to choose the next tier of candidates and still have them be relatively on par with more high-profile characters with other series. Yes, uniqueness was probably a factor in getting Rosalina included, but the series she belonged to also must've been a huge element as well.
.

I am fully aware of Rosalina's importance to the Mario series. I am using her inclusion as an example in justifying Bandana Dee (and more specifically the point that uniqueness just as big of a factor as importance to one's own series is) since Rosalina had many other Mario newcomers that have had a bigger role and are more important to the Mario series than she is.

Toad didn't have any new to bring, but he was arguably the most important Mario character after the main 4.

Waluigi could have brought in anew sports related moveset, and could also represent the very successful Mario spin-offs which would be decent.

Bowser Jr. has been in almost every single Mario game since his debut, and could have brought something new with his paintbrush, which would be pretty awesome.

Even though she is popular, other characters were more important than her. And in the end, she got in over them, most likely because she probably because she brought a completely new and different play style with Luma with her, though we need to see more newcomers before we can really establish this point.


Back to the Bandana Dee point about this. If my assumption is right and uniqueness plays a big role in Sakurai's decisions, Bandana Dee would be an ideal choice for Sakurai, as he uses a spear, a weapon that can offer a play style never seen in Smash before.

 

[Sehnsucht]

A Nintendio crossover? What universe is this?

A bizarro world where Nintendio exists instead of Nintendo.

 

[BluePikmin11]

The Nintendo crossover statement proves that characters like Daitouryou are able to get in even though they are not videogame related.
So that means Goku's still a possibility, but his chances are off the mountain though.

 

[Louie G.]

@ Mega Bidoof
That's where you're wrong. Nestor originated in NP, not Captain N. N originated in an AMERICAN ONLY CARTOON. I stand firm in believing that GOKU has a better shot than him, since he is actually requested by some and is an international character. Neither of them are likely btw.

 

[Starcutter]

What universe is this?

Universe B Gamma 0385008.

B Alpha 0385008 is on your left.

 

[Kenith]

Oh my GOD with the Daitoryo!!

 

[pikachugamer21]

soo what's the new topic everyone

 

[BluePikmin11]

soo what's the new topic everyone

"The Pac is back!"
Pac-Man.

 

[UltimateWario]

Whoever is in charge of constantly redesigning the ghosts from Pac-Man needs to be dragged out into the street and shot. I don't think there's been a single decent ghost redesign ever. Hell, the one in the video is just Blinky with a ****ing lightning bolt glued to his head.