Character Discussion Thread

[Kenith]

There probably would be some from those who wanted a brand new Pokemon character, but I don't think it would have been overwhelming. Mewtwo is still the most popular choice for a Pokemon character, and in Brawl we had a similar situation where the Mario series didn't get any new characters, so I think the complaints wouldn't have been huge in number.

That's a good point, actually. Pokemon and Mario both have the same dilemma of having a million different characters, each one with it's own share of the fanbase, so people will complain regardless of who does or doesn't get in (read: Toad vs. Waluigi vs. Rosalina vs. Bowser Jr.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nothing can be as disastrous as post-Brawl roster threads. 48-52 was about the size of the average Brawl roster on here. It'll be hilarious if even SSB4 can't match those expectations.

On one hand, the fact that Sheik and ZSS are their own characters, and Charizard has been balkanized to get rid of Squirtle/Ivysaur, suggests a small roster. On the other, no SSE means there is far more development time and Namco-Bandai has their top men on the job. I lean towards optimism, in the long term. If E3 is crap, though, I'm going to start guessing low too.

Actually, Sheik, Zamus, and Charizard being separated has to do more with reducing development time and making balancing simpler.

Then again, after the horrible train wreck that is Pokemon Trainer, it doesn't surprise me.

 

[AncientTobacco]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

 

[Substitution]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

At this rate, I really don't know.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

Yes, there's no real reason to deny his chances even after the Greninja reveal.

 

[Hotfeet444]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

Yes, of course I do. As much as some will try to say otherwise and literally try everything to deconfirm him, Mewtwo's chances haven't changed at all and is still almost a guaranteed.

 

[Kenith]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

Or course. And I also think Jigglypuff is a given.

Greninja, contrary to what everyone believes, doesn't jeopardize either of them, when we were anticipating more Pokemon characters than this anyway.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

I highly doubt it at this point, unless they add Paper Mario to balance out the amount of Mario and Pokemon characters.

 

[---]

I respectfully disagree, 42 is not ridiculous. I think people are putting too much stock in their so called "shoe-in" characters, the only new comer I would even put close to that category is king k rool, because of the kremlings sighting of course. But even then I say there is no guarantee.

I wasn't exactly referring to newcomers, I was referring to veterans primary.

Assuming that Snake/Squirtle/Ivysaur were to be cut and the rest of the Brawl roster to return plus the 6 newcomers we'd have a roster of 42. If we were to keep it at that number there would either be no more newcomers and or several veteran characters would be cut.

Adding the most likely veterans (Falcon, Wario, Ness, Lucas, Ice Climbers) and newcomers (Palutena, Pacman) to the current roster of 29 we'd be at 36 characters. Assuming 42, depending on newcomers, (Meta Knight, Ganondorf, Ike, Falco, Wolf, ROB, G&W) 2 of these veterans would have to be cut, which could go even higher depending if you want to have any extra newcomers.

 

[Staarih]

I highly doubt it at this point, unless they add Paper Mario to balance out the amount of Mario and Pokemon characters.

They weren't balanced in Brawl. But I wouldn't oppose a Paper Mario inclusion thank you very much

 

[Kenith]

I highly doubt it at this point, unless they add Paper Mario to balance out the amount of Mario and Pokemon characters.

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser
Pokemon: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Lucario, Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle

Sakurai doesn't care.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I highly doubt it at this point, unless they add Paper Mario to balance out the amount of Mario and Pokemon characters.

I hardly think its necessary. Pokemon has such a diverse cast its reasonable to have a few on the roster.

Funny how people were fine with 7 when Pokemon trainer was a given, and now people are going against having one less than what they originally had.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Franchise equality again?

 

[Kenith]

Franchise equality again?

I HAVE A DREAM

It's a silly point. The only time I care about series equality is when I want to make a pretty looking roster.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

I hardly think its necessary. Pokemon has such a diverse cast its reasonable to have a few on the roster.

Funny how people were fine with 7 when Pokemon trainer was a given, and now people are going against having one less than what they originally had.

Yeah, but I'm only biased because I don't think the Pokemon franchise should have more reps than the Mascot Franchise of Nintendo in a Nintendo All-Star game. I just think it was kinda weird to have 6 Pokemon reps and 4 Mario reps in Brawl.

 

[False Sense]

So do you guys still think Mewtwo is likely to be in?

I'm still thinking that over myself, really. Greninja does take up a potential slot Mewtwo could have had, though on the other hand, we may have gained some extra slots with the tragic deaths of Squirtle and Ivysaur. It's kind of hard to say since none of us really expected a situation like this, so we've had to adjust our way of looking at the roster. At the very least, Mewtwo still has everything it had before going for it: extreme popularity, importance, relevance, uniqueness, it's all there.

Well, except for a lack of competition, perhaps.

@ Jason the Yoshi Isn't this an improvement over Brawl then? Now Mario has five characters and Pokemon would still have six. It's better than four versus six.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Franchise equality again?

BUT MARIO, ZELDA, AND POKEMON MUST BE EQUAL BECAUSE SHUT UP.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Mewtwo is fine me thinks. He's a veteran, Pokemon had 6 in Brawl, so it can get away with 6 now.

The only thing that worries me is Greninja AND Lucario have a Neutral B attack similar to one another, Lucario having Aura Sphere and Greninja having the Water Shuriken. Mewtwo would make three Pokemon with a chargeable Neutral B attack. Not that it matters much.

I think Mewtwo is okay though. He's the #1 pick for this Smash Bros., so he's still got a shot.

EDIT: People DO realize that all three have never been equal right?
64: Mario and Pokemon have 2, Zelda has 1
Melee: Mario has 5, Zelda has 5, Pokemon has 4
Brawl: Mario has 4, Zelda has 5, Pokemon has 6

They've never been all equal.

 

[Kenith]

I think Mewtwo is a given because declining to include him isn't just letting a lot of people down, it's straight up idiotic.

Unlike in Brawl, Mewtwo has a surge in promotion and popularity to a point that trivializes the inclusion of any other Pokemon character sans Pikachu.
Honestly, I was more concerned about Lucario, but he was confirmed.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The only thing that worries me is Greninja AND Lucario have a Neutral B attack similar to one another, Lucario having Aura Sphere and Greninja having the Water Shuriken. Mewtwo would make three Pokemon with a chargeable Neutral B attack. Not that it matters much.

There's also Samus' Charge Shot and Wii Fit Trainer's Sun Salutation.

Also keep in mind that Water Shuriken and Aura Sphere still have their own properties. Water Shuriken for example slows down the more it charges up instead of the inverse and it's fully charged shots hit multiple times, while Lucario's Aura Sphere is influenced in size and power by the aura mechanic.

 

[Baskerville]

EDIT: People DO realize that all three have never been equal right?
64: Mario and Pokemon have 2, Zelda has 1
Melee: Mario has 5, Zelda has 5, Pokemon has 4
Brawl: Mario has 4, Zelda has 5, Pokemon has 6

They've never been all equal.

I swear we have been through this before... hmmmmm.....
Nah. It's just me.

 

[Kenith]

Okay, I'm going to dig up an old discussion topic.

So, it's pretty obvious that Ice Climbers were giving the 3DS hardware some trouble.

Do you guys think Nana or both Climbers will run at 30 fps in the 3DS version, as a solution? Or are you guys thinking of more drastic changes being needed?

 

[AncientTobacco]

Okay, I'm going to dig up an old discussion topic.

So, it's pretty obvious that Ice Climbers were giving the 3DS hardware some trouble.

Do you guys think Nana or both Climbers will run at 30 fps in the 3DS version, as a solution? Or are you guys thinking of more drastic changes being needed?

I don't see how their situation would be any different from Rosalina & Luma's, and we haven't anything about them not running at 60fps.

 

[Substitution]

Okay, I'm going to dig up an old discussion topic.

So, it's pretty obvious that Ice Climbers were giving the 3DS hardware some trouble.

Do you guys think Nana or both Climbers will run at 30 fps in the 3DS version, as a solution? Or are you guys thinking of more drastic changes being needed?

To be fair.
If Rosalina and Luma can run just fine on the 3DS.
I doubt that Ice Climbers will cause problems.

 

[Kenith]

To be fair.
If Rosalina and Luma can run just fine on the 3DS.
I doubt that Ice Climbers will cause problems.

Nana is a lot more complex than Luma. Luma is directly controlled by the player - Nana is essentially another player.
Imagine having an eight player match via four Ice Climber pairs.

 

[Staarih]

I don't see how their situation would be any different from Rosalina & Luma's, and we haven't anything about them not running at 60fps.

I don't know much about this technical stuff, but I think we've seen Luma without any outlines while Rosalina has them, so I presume the Luma's will run with lower fps. Not sure if that's an indication of anything though but still... I'd presume the Pikmin of Olimar are the same. So I don't know what that would mean for Nana.

 

[shrooby]

By the way, yall should check out this cool website, it's probably the only legitimate Smash Japanese speculating I see in the web.
http://ikusaba.client.jp/character/top.htm
It surprisingly updates as time goes on.

Black Shadow has a higher ranking than Palutena and Takamaru. The former having a shockingly low ranking. Dang.
Zoroark has a surprisingly high rank. Higher than that of the above three and even K. Rool.
Surprising how much higher Little Mac is than Takamaru. And Sukapon is just...wow.
Wish I had the actual numbers though instead of bars.
It's interesting just how different this is compared to the average rankings I see on these 'ere Boards. How current is it?

Edit: I just realized that Pac-Man isn't even there! Whaaaat?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Clearly the solution is to make Popo and Nana two separate standalone characters, like Charizard.

----

 

[Kenith]

Clearly the solution is to make Popo and Nana two separate standalone characters, like Charizard.

----

Preposterous, we might as well have a green Mario.

 

[Cobalsh]

By the way, yall should check out this cool website, it's probably the only legitimate Smash Japanese speculating I see in the web.
http://ikusaba.client.jp/character/top.htm
It surprisingly updates as time goes on.

... I can't read this.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Nana is a lot more complex than Luma. Luma is directly controlled by the player - Nana is essentially another player.
Imagine having an eight player match via four Ice Climber pairs.

At least Nana and Popo share the same moves. I think it'll be fine, if they can do Olimar and Rosalina well and fine, they can do the Ice Climbers.

Hoping for them on the 24th! I think they have a chance!

 

[Andinus]

I wasn't exactly referring to newcomers, I was referring to veterans primary.

Assuming that Snake/Squirtle/Ivysaur were to be cut and the rest of the Brawl roster to return plus the 6 newcomers we'd have a roster of 42. If we were to keep it at that number there would either be no more newcomers and or several veteran characters would be cut.

Adding the most likely veterans (Falcon, Wario, Ness, Lucas, Ice Climbers) and newcomers (Palutena, Pacman) to the current roster of 29 we'd be at 36 characters. Assuming 42, depending on newcomers, (Meta Knight, Ganondorf, Ike, Falco, Wolf, ROB, G&W) 2 of these veterans would have to be cut, which could go even higher depending if you want to have any extra newcomers.

Well we differ in our number of predicted cuts too. I think we will see 5-6 cuts, even seven or eight if Ike and Lucas don't return, however if they are cut I'm sure we will get new comers from their franchises to replace them.

 

[Substitution]

Nana is a lot more complex than Luma. Luma is directly controlled by the player - Nana is essentially another player.
Imagine having an eight player match via four Ice Climber pairs.

But mind you. Both are still characters that require their own set of AI, not to mention needing separate elements from the playable character.
It may not look like it at first, but both are more similar than you think.
And if one can run well, why wouldn't the other?

 

[shrooby]

Preposterous, we might as well have a green Mario.

But we already do. It was revealed some time ago, in fact:

Spoiler

 

[False Sense]

Well we differ in our number of predicted cuts too. I think we will see 5-6 cuts, even seven or eight if Ike and Lucas don't return, however if they are cut I'm sure we will get new comers from their franchises to replace them.

So, you think they're just going to cut all those characters and then just replace them with shiny newcomers?

Doesn't that kind of go against what Smash is about?

 

[Kenith]

But mind you. Both are still characters that require their own set of AI, not to mention needing separate elements from the playable character.
It may not look like it at first, but both are more similar than you think.
And if one can run well, why wouldn't the other?

No, Luma isn't his own AI...at least, he's never been stated to have one.

I dunno, this kind of discussion is better to have when Golden is around.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Well we differ in our number of predicted cuts too. I think we will see 5-6 cuts, even seven or eight if Ike and Lucas don't return, however if they are cut I'm sure we will get new comers from their franchises to replace them.

Which characters do you think will be cut? Because most likely it's Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Snake. Everyone else has decent chances.

 

[False Sense]

No, Luma isn't his own AI...at least, he's never been stated to have one.

I dunno, this kind of discussion is better to have when Golden is around.

Didn't the Direct say that Luma acts independently when separated from Rosalina? It just wanders around on its own and attacks when Rosalina does.

 

[Kenith]

Didn't the Direct say that Luma acts independently when separated from Rosalina? It just wanders around on its own and attacks when Rosalina does.

Well in that case, then yes, he is his own AI, but I distinctly remember him just following her attacks when they're separated and not doing anything else.

But we already do. It was revealed some time ago, in fact:

Spoiler

Wow.

These character choices are just unbelievable.
I don't think I'll get this game when we have characters like Green Mario.

 

[aldelaro5]

Sorry to post this while this is not the topic but this is bothering me

Someone needs to explain me how in the world last Tuesday direct decreased in any form mewtwo's chance. Because like no matter how you consider transformation, these were the pokemon character in brawl:

pikachu
jigglypuff
lucario
squirtle
ivysaur
charizard

if you count, it means that they were 6 character made from the pokemon serie. The pokemon trainer is just a mechanic that allow you to switch between 3 of them in battle but seriously can you agree that Sakurai and his team worked on 3 different moveset for him? yes you are playing as only one slot but this same slot is a three in one which is actually the same as three different because they would require the same amount of work which is the work of 3 characters.

As of now, these are the pokemon character confimed for ssb4:

pikachu
lucario
charizard
greninja

That's 4 since jigglypuff is a given, that's 5 pokemon character. so, the only way that mewtwo would have his chance decreased is if that somehow, either squirtle or ivysauf is confirmed but let's be honest here no transformation for EVERY character means that the trainer mechanic is most likely gone which would mean that the only way to get those 2 characters would be individual and that's the problem remember how charizard was a really requested character? we got squirtle and ivysauf as a bonus for an unique mechanic but because now this mechanic is most likely gone, these characters's chance has decreased by a lot (not saying they are deconfirmed but it would be surprising for me to see them)

The only one not affected by this is mewtwo and also can we agree that he's one of the most (or the most) requested character here? even enought so that Sakurai even acknowledged it. So, of all the 4 pokemon veteran (this includes mewtwo), mewtwo is the only one that his chance did not decreased and adding him will bring the roster to a minimum of 6 pokemon rep which is the same as brawl. So, I'm asking my question again: how in any way mewtwo's chance decreased?