Character Discussion Thread

[The Suit-less Ace]

One of my posts in this thread #18038 , with assuming a max roster possibility of 42 I basically figured we would end up with having 5-6 characters cut, and be left with 2-3 new people to be announced from here on out to equal a total of 42. I don't think the cutting 5-6 characters is really so many. We already know some are not going to be returning for sure, and the fact is 5 characters were cut from melee to brawl (mewtwo, pichu, roy, young link, dr. mario).

To me, with the release only a few months away now, having 2-3 new characters in their pocket to announce sounds about right. I bet we will get one at E3 and the remaining two will be announced just before release, or be an in game surprise, possibly along with 1-2 unannounced returning veterans.

Again I will say, I would love to see a roster of 50 plus, but at this point having 21 or more unannounced characters doesn't seem right. I wish I could remember how they did it with brawl. I remember feeling like wolf and snake were in game surprises..

What characters are we sure about not returning?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One of my posts in this thread #18038 , with assuming a max roster possibility of 42 I basically figured we would end up with having 5-6 characters cut, and be left with 2-3 new people to be announced from here on out to equal a total of 42. I don't think the cutting 5-6 characters is really so many. We already know some are not going to be returning for sure, and the fact is 5 characters were cut from melee to brawl (mewtwo, pichu, roy, young link, dr. mario).

To me, with the release only a few months away now, having 2-3 new characters in their pocket to announce sounds about right. I bet we will get one at E3 and the remaining two will be announced just before release, or be an in game surprise, possibly along with 1-2 unannounced returning veterans.

Again I will say, I would love to see a roster of 50 plus, but at this point having 21 or more unannounced characters doesn't seem right. I wish I could remember how they did it with brawl. I remember feeling like wolf and snake were in game surprises..

Brawl revealed all third parties (Sonic and Snake) and added 18 newcomers.

There were roughly 10 characters that weren't announced before Brawl. SO if that holds true, I would expect the same from this game.

We've already probably lost Squirtle and Ivysaur, so even if we did lose Lucas, Ike, Wolf and Snake, that would only get us down to 33. Add in the probably 5+ newcomers remaining, and the leftover vets...we've got well over 40.

 

[Louie G.]

Sorry Charlie! I still doubt a sixth character from any franchise, I'll believe it when I see it

You have seen it. In Brawl.
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Lucario
CHARIZARD
SQUIRTLE
IVYSAUR

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

You have seen it. In Brawl.
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Lucario
CHARIZARD
SQUIRTLE
IVYSAUR

I think all our minds exploded with this.

 

[zauberdragon]

Sakurai is playing a shrewd game, no one is 100% deconfirmed, not even Ivysaur, Squirtle and Ridley. At this point it's conjecture plus gut instinct.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Palutena, King K. Rool, and Pac-Man seem like the most likely newcomers now, wouldn't you agree?

 

[The Light Music Club]

Palutena, King K. Rool, and Pac-Man seem like the most likely newcomers now, wouldn't you agree?

I think Palutena is the only likely newcomer at this point, even though I would love King K. I think he might just be a boss.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Palutena, King K. Rool, and Pac-Man seem like the most likely newcomers now, wouldn't you agree?

I do agree with this, I still think Mewtwo is up high however, yet Palutena is at the top now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Palutena, in my mind is a complete Shoe-in. Or at least as close as one could possibly get to being a shoe-in.

 

[ScottyWK]

I don't understand why K. Rool is being so highly considered a shoe-in. He hasn't been a main villain in yearrrrsssss, and he's been really irrelevant in the Donkey Kong scene. The Kremlins are back, sure, but in an extremely minor and insignificant role. The other DK baddies are in Smash-Run too.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

To be fair, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard weren't full-fledged characters in Brawl. They shared a special move and Final Smash. Same with Sheik.

For most purposes, though, you could say they were their own separate characters in a way. You had to beat the 1P modes with each form to get their trophy.

In my opinion, ZSS was the closest to being standalone because she at least had a full moveset of her own, despite not being directly selected from the character screen.

----

 

[zauberdragon]

I can see Palutena being a relatively under the radar reveal sometime between now and the next Nintendo direct. May as well save someone unexpected for a big event. There was so much pro-Palutena stuff on Tuesday that it's not going to shock anyone.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

I don't understand why K. Rool is being so highly considered a shoe-in. He hasn't been a main villain in yearrrrsssss, and he's been really irrelevant in the Donkey Kong scene. The Kremlins are back, sure, but in an extremely minor and insignificant role. The other DK baddies are in Smash-Run too.

I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in, but he's likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's my thoughts on the leak: It's real. It's just missing a few things.

The leak says we're getting:
Pac-Man
Mii's
Palutena
Shulk
Chrom
Chorus Men/Marshal
Pokémon X/Y character (Greninja'd)

(and then villager, Mega Man, and Wii Fit Trainer)

The person leaking it is credible for what we know, and already leaked Villager, Wii Fit Trainers, Little Mac, and Mega Man. However, he didn't get Rosalina. What that tells us is, if he's right and the leaks are true, is that there is a possibility of other characters getting in as well, such as Mewtwo and K.Rool. (don't get me started on Ridley)

Every Smash game, we've gotten two Pokémon characters added. Mewtwo and Pichu in Melee, Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon and Lucario (would add two to the Melee roster) gave us 6. Right now, assuming Jigglypuff is back, Mewtwo would bring us to 6, and would continue the pattern of 2 Pokémon characters per game. That said, I believe Mewtwo is a lock.

With the Kremlings being shown in Smash Run, it seems as if Sakurai hasn't forgotten them. This helps K.Rool out quite a bit, and he might just be in the game. I think he is, so that's another newbie.

Overall, that gives us 14 newcomers. That's less than Brawl, yet 2 more than the original Smash. That's not a bad amount. Expecting too many more than that is bad in my opinion, and I think we're looking at a solid roster in this respect.

On the subject of veterans, I DO believe Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone, which brings us to 37 characters returning from Brawl, assuming nobody else is cut. Don't expect a ridiculous amount either. The only character who even have a lick of a chance to be cut (and this is arguable) are Wolf, Ike, Snake, and Lucas.

If, in some cruel event, they're all cut, that would take us down to 33 Brawl characters. Add 14 newcomers in there, and we have a solid roster of 47 characters. From now on, I would estimate a roster of 45+. There is little chance of a roster of 40.

I would take into consideration a retro character as well. While patterns are not reliable, we did get two retros in Melee and two retros and Brawl, so I can't see us not getting a single retro this time around. Plus Sakurai has said that he likes to bring back old characters, so a retro character should be a pretty safe bet. This brings us to fifteen newcomers (assuming K. Rool is in), which is a lot, but not too implausible. I'm expecting somewhere between fourteen to sixteen newcomers this game.

As for cuts, I think Snake is gone due to Kojima's statement, but I think Wolf, Lucas and Ike are safe (although there might be a really small chance for an Ike cut, but I'm really doubting it). I also agree that Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone as well. So two to four cuts is what I'm thinking, but most likely three.

So at the end of the day, I'm guessing at least forty-nine characters will be in (fourteen newcomers, four cuts) and we could go up to fifty-four characters (sixteen newcomers and two cuts). Seems like a fairly reasonable range if you ask me; been thinking for a long time this is what we would get.

One thing is for sure, we are heading into the last phase of speculation. It is at this phase where we enter into the most brutal debates and the fiercest competitions for the remaining spots. And it is most certainly a phase I want to be present for.

Cue the final stretch music!

 

[The Light Music Club]

I would take into consideration a retro character as well. While patterns are not reliable, we did get two retros in Melee and two retros and Brawl, so I can't see us not getting a single retro this time around. Plus Sakurai has said that he likes to bring back old characters, so a retro character should be a pretty safe bet. This brings us to fifteen newcomers (assuming K. Rool is in), which is a lot, but not too implausible. I'm expecting somewhere between fourteen to sixteen newcomers this game.

As for cuts, I think Snake is gone due to Kojima's statement, but I think Wolf, Lucas and Ike are safe (although there might be a really small chance for an Ike cut, but I'm really doubting it). I also agree that Squirtle and Ivysaur are gone as well. So two to four cuts is what I'm thinking, but most likely three.

So at the end of the day, I'm guessing at least forty-nine characters will be in (fourteen newcomers, four cuts) and we could go up to fifty-four characters (sixteen newcomers and two cuts). Seems like a fairly reasonable range if you ask me; been thinking for a long time this is what we would get.

One thing is for sure, we are heading into the last phase of speculation. It is at this phase where we enter into the most brutal debates and the fiercest competitions for the remaining spots. And it is most certainly a phase I want to be present for.

Cue the final stretch music!

Don't say Ike cut at all. If Toon Link and the other two clonish characters in Wolf and Lucas can stay, than a completely original character will get in unless time constraints occur.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

You have seen it. In Brawl.
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Lucario
CHARIZARD
SQUIRTLE
IVYSAUR

The Pokemon Trainer was a TRIPLE CHANGER!!!

 

[TumblrFamous]

In my eyes, Palutena is pretty much all but confirmed right now. There was so much trolling on her, especially with that Pseudo-Scare. She's in for sure.

I don't know about anyone else. Mewtwo is still VERY likely, but people are paranoid.

And yes, there were 6 Pokemon characters. So anyone that says otherwise: WRONG.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

The Pokemon Trainer was a TRIPLE CHANGER!!!

The pokemon are considered 3 separate characters.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

In my eyes, Palutena is pretty much all but confirmed right now. There was so much trolling on her, especially with that Pseudo-Scare. She's in for sure.

I agree, Palutena can't be cut at this rate, we need all the "Female Friendliness" we can get.

 

[Autumn ♫]

The Pokemon Trainer was a TRIPLE CHANGER!!!

Yes, and we don't have transformations in Smash anymore, so might as well count them as 3 characters now.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Yes, and we don't have transformations in Smash anymore, so might as well count them as 3 characters now.

To be honest, the exclusion of transformers is why I don't see Mewtwo as of now. The only way I'd see a sixth Pokemon player this time is to get a sixth Mario player first

 

[Bowserlick]

I think there is a glaring omission of a fully evolved Grass pokemon. Serperior would be neat.

 

[zauberdragon]

I know I'm probably coming off a little desperate for any scrap of evidence pointing to Ridley's potential inclusion but I've just rewatched his little bit in the direct and for a brief second part of his wing comes on the screen and it's grey and metallic, more Meta-Ridley than the purple beast. Might mean nothing but haven't seen anyone else mention it.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

To be honest, the exclusion of transformers is why I don't see Mewtwo as on now. The only way I'd see a sixth Pokemon player this time is to get a sixth Mario player first

This is why some people are adding 6th Mario characters now. But keep in mind, even if Mario doesn't have 6, there's 718 pokemon and not as many Mario characters, and some can consider Wario and Yoshi to be connected to the Mario series as well.

I know I'm probably coming off a little desperate for any scrap of evidence pointing to Ridley's potential inclusion but I've just rewatched his little bit in the direct and for a brief second part of his wing comes on the screen and it's grey and metallic, more Meta-Ridley than the purple beast. Might mean nothing but haven't seen anyone else mention it.

Someone on here mentioned it. They said it wasn't Ridley, but it was a Ridley.

 

[Sehnsucht]

To be honest, the exclusion of transformers is why I don't see Mewtwo as of now. The only way I'd see a sixth Pokemon player this time is to get a sixth Mario player first

I'd like to clarify your position, if I may.

Your position is that the Pokemon franchise must either have less, or an equal number, of playable characters than the Mario franchise in a given Smash game. This is because the Mario franchise is more popular, significant, iconic, and/or more successful as a Nintendo franchise than Pokemon, so having more Pokemon characters than Mario characters would constitute an imbalance in the roster when it comes to representation.

Is this indeed your view?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't understand why K. Rool is being so highly considered a shoe-in. He hasn't been a main villain in yearrrrsssss, and he's been really irrelevant in the Donkey Kong scene. The Kremlins are back, sure, but in an extremely minor and insignificant role. The other DK baddies are in Smash-Run too.

Diddy "wasn't relevant" when Brawl came around either. K. Rool skipping the DKCR series doesn't change the fact that he is the most recurring baddie in the series. He was also a popular request during pre-Brawl, which may be what Sakurai used to gauge popularity.

And he was generally considered likely before the Smash Run reveal FYI.

 

[Deleted member]

Palutena, King K. Rool, and Pac-Man seem like the most likely newcomers now, wouldn't you agree?

K. Rool is largely dependent on whenever or not we get more than fourteen newcomers. If we do, though, then I would consider him the most likely character that isn't part of the Gematsu's leak or Mewtwo. So he has a pretty good chance, although not a lock.

I don't understand why K. Rool is being so highly considered a shoe-in. He hasn't been a main villain in yearrrrsssss, and he's been really irrelevant in the Donkey Kong scene. The Kremlins are back, sure, but in an extremely minor and insignificant role. The other DK baddies are in Smash-Run too.

Then I guess we can say that Mega Man isn't coming to Smash; Capcom has been treating him like **** over the past few years, so he won't be in.

...why won't the recency argument just die already?

Don't say Ike cut at all. If Toon Link and the other two clonish characters in Wolf and Lucas can stay, than a completely original character will get in unless time constraints occur.

Didn't say Ike would get cut, just that there an extremely small chance he might go, but he's probably staying anyway. And yeah, I agree, he's only going if time constraints gets in the way, which I don't think will be the case.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

This is why some people are adding 6th Mario characters now. But keep in mind, even if Mario doesn't have 6, there's 718 pokemon and not as many Mario characters, and some can consider Wario and Yoshi to be connected to the Mario series as well.



Someone on here mentioned it. They said it wasn't Ridley, but it was a Ridley.

Very well, I'll play along in favor of Paper Mario.

@ Sehnsucht yes, that's the point I'm trying to make

 

[Autumn ♫]

I don't know why, but I can't bring myself to believe the Gematsu leak. Maybe it's because of the vagueness of the X and Y newcomer.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

On a side note, does anyone see a variation of this music to being in, maybe as FD music? I heard this exact one in the direct I think.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

On a side note, does anyone see a variation of this music to being in, maybe as FD music? I heard this exact one in the direct I think.

Please yes! I just want this to be in the game as it appeared in Melee

 

[False Sense]

Well, in light of recent revelations, I decided to try and make a pure prediction roster of what I think will likely happen. However, I'm still a little unsure of what actually is likely and unlikely at this point. If I could get a little advice on this, I'd very much appreciate it.

Apologies for the out of date icons. Now as for why I think that these characters are likely (or unlikely)...

King K. Rool: I think he has the edge over Dixie at this point. The Kremlings in the Direct proved that he's more than likely in Sakurai's thoughts, which bodes very well for him.

No Zelda Newcomer: Probably wasn't that likely to begin with, and now that Sheik is separated from Zelda, it seems like she'll be taking up her own slot. I'm not ruling out a Zelda newcomer, but it's less than likely, I think.

No Ridley: Poor Ridley... At this point, it seems more likely that he's going to be a stage hazard than an actual character. I will say that it's not entirely impossible for Ridley to end up playable, though; I just kind of doubt it at this point.

Palutena: Ok, I'm going to say it; Palutena is the closest thing to a lock we have this time around. Everything is pointing to her inclusion now. It's only a matter of time, I think.

No Mewtwo: ...This kills me more than anything, having to take Mewtwo off my roster. With Greninja already being here, I just don't find Mewtwo to be more than likely. I can't say I'm expecting him anymore.

Chrom: I said this was a prediction roster, didn't I? Dang it. As much as I strongly support Robin's inclusion, I can't say he's more likely than Chrom. Since this is purely a prediction roster, I feel like I have to put Chrom over Robin.

Takamaru: Greninja may have taken a few possibilities from Takamaru, but I think he still has enough material to work with to make him plenty unique. Greninja's really borrowing more from Sheik than anyone else...

Still have Snake: I debated about this one, but here's what I think. The Direct confirmed that Sakurai is capable of outright lying to his fans. If Snake is in the game, it honestly wouldn't surprise me now if Sakurai told Kojima exactly what to say if asked about Snake's inclusion. It's devious, true, but it sure would build hype if Snake came back despite the odds, wouldn't it? ...I guess the same could be said for Ridley, but...

Pac-Man: He seems likely enough considering the Namco content in the game, and for all the other reasons he'd make a good pick.

So, that's what I have for my prediction roster so far. However, I still have those random spaces that are undecided at this point. Any ideas about what should go there? Mii? Mewtwo or Ridley? Nothing? Is there anything else that seems wrong for a prediction roster? I'd appreciate any feedback I could get.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Something I've been thinking of for the past few minutes:

Pretend that Sakurai went with his original Brawl plans and added Diddy and Dixie together. Would he have counted them as separate characters? Like beating the 1P modes in each form to get a trophy? I think so.

On a side note, does anyone see a variation of this music to being in, maybe as FD music? I heard this exact one in the direct I think.

That medley of the Melee opening theme and the tourney theme in the direct was cool. I also liked hearing more of the Punch-Out theme arrangement. And the guitar version of Ballad of the Goddess was interesting.

----

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Interesting how they added the Kremlings over the Snowmads. King K. Rool > Dixie Kong.

 

[shrooby]

I don't understand why K. Rool is being so highly considered a shoe-in. He hasn't been a main villain in yearrrrsssss, and he's been really irrelevant in the Donkey Kong scene. The Kremlins are back, sure, but in an extremely minor and insignificant role. The other DK baddies are in Smash-Run too.

Nobody's saying he's a shoe-in. But he is very likely.
I could actually type a rebutle up myself, but BKupa just puts it so nicely in the OP for K. Rool's thread that I feel no need. I'd recommend giving it a read if you haven't already.

 

[zauberdragon]

On a side note, does anyone see a variation of this music to being in, maybe as FD music? I heard this exact one in the direct I think.

That pause at the 1:16 mark is my childhood and early teens in a nutshell. I can just picture the [Get ready] every time I listen to it.

 

[The Suit-less Ace]

Well, in light of recent revelations, I decided to try and make a pure prediction roster of what I think will likely happen. However, I'm still a little unsure of what actually is likely and unlikely at this point. If I could get a little advice on this, I'd very much appreciate it.

View attachment 11917

Apologies for the out of date icons. Now as for why I think that these characters are likely (or unlikely)...

King K. Rool: I think he has the edge over Dixie at this point. The Kremlings in the Direct proved that he's more than likely in Sakurai's thoughts, which bodes very well for him.

No Zelda Newcomer: Probably wasn't that likely to begin with, and now that Sheik is separated from Zelda, it seems like she'll be taking up her own slot. I'm not ruling out a Zelda newcomer, but it's less than likely, I think.

No Ridley: Poor Ridley... At this point, it seems more likely that he's going to be a stage hazard than an actual character. I will say that it's not entirely impossible for Ridley to end up playable, though; I just kind of doubt it at this point.

Palutena: Ok, I'm going to say it; Palutena is the closest thing to a lock we have this time around. Everything is pointing to her inclusion now. It's only a matter of time, I think.

No Mewtwo: ...This kills me more than anything, having to take Mewtwo off my roster. With Greninja already being here, I just don't find Mewtwo to be more than likely. I can't say I'm expecting him anymore.

Chrom: I said this was a prediction roster, didn't I? Dang it. As much as I strongly support Robin's inclusion, I can't say he's more likely than Chrom. Since this is purely a prediction roster, I feel like I have to put Chrom over Robin.

Takamaru: Greninja may have taken a few possibilities from Takamaru, but I think he still has enough material to work with to make him plenty unique. Greninja's really borrowing more from Sheik than anyone else...

Still have Snake: I debated about this one, but here's what I think. The Direct confirmed that Sakurai is capable of outright lying to his fans. If Snake is in the game, it honestly wouldn't surprise me now if Sakurai told Kojima exactly what to say if asked about Snake's inclusion. It's devious, true, but it sure would build hype if Snake came back despite the odds, wouldn't it? ...I guess the same could be said for Ridley, but...

Pac-Man: He seems likely enough considering the Namco content in the game, and for all the other reasons he'd make a good pick.

So, that's what I have for my prediction roster so far. However, I still have those random spaces that are undecided at this point. Any ideas about what should go there? Mii? Mewtwo or Ridley? Nothing? Is there anything else that seems wrong for a prediction roster? I'd appreciate any feedback I could get.

I think Mewtwo can make it.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Interesting how they added the Kremlings over the Snowmads. King K. Rool > Dixie Kong.

That would get me to imagine King K Rool reading Robert Frost for a moment

"He will not see me stopping here to watch his woods fill up with snow."

 

[Deleted member]

On a side note, does anyone see a variation of this music to being in, maybe as FD music? I heard this exact one in the direct I think.

I heard it, it was awesome. I'm so glad this is coming back.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think the point @ N3ON was trying to make was that if they went through the trouble of getting items in, why not a character then? Pac-Man is the obvious choice, as he is Namco's mascot.

He has plenty of reason to be added. He might seem lame, but that's not to say he doesn't deserve it.

I NEVER said he didn't deserve it. I JUST got done saying that if Pac-Man gets in it will be because of his own merits. That does not translate to "Pac-Man has no merits." in the language that I speak.

And once again:

Objects represented by objects=/= Playable-Characters