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Character Discussion Thread

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zauberdragon

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So much negativity on Greninja. If people are whining about getting unwanted/unexpected characters, then I wonder how people had taken Lucas and Pokemon Trainer pre-Brawl.
I remember both those reveals. I had to look up Lucas, back then I didn't know who he was. As for Pokemon trainer I remember I was on holiday in Spain and went to a water park for the day, I was walking around like a lost soul with a look on my face that said 'what is life?' It took me a while to digest him.

Still it's always different once you play the games. 'Hexagonal nightmares' for Lucas's up smash has entered my vocabulary and that of my friends.

Greninja though I loved. He was a big shock and one of my favourite pokemon at the moment. Sure I can think of reveals I'd probably have reacted stronger at but it was definitely up there in terms of hype.
 
D

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One unique move became another (less unique) move. Your point?
Veterans have been seeing more bold changes towards them than Brawl did to its veterans. Gameplay for characters have been emphasized a lot more than it used to be for newcomers. With a trajectory towards uniqueness occurring, it's not hard to see a possibility of no new true clones/semi-clones for this game. If a character like Chrom was included, it's the ONLY way he'd receive favorable reaction; by standing out.
 
D

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So since custom movesets are a thing...do you think most of Ganon's moves from Brawl (And sort of Melee) will transfer over to Captain Falcon?
 

TheLastJinjo

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Veterans have been seeing more bold changes towards them than Brawl did to its veterans. Gameplay for characters have been emphasized a lot more than it used to be for newcomers. With a trajectory towards uniqueness occurring, it's not hard to see a possibility of no new true clones/semi-clones for this game. If a character like Chrom was included, it's the ONLY way he'd receive favorable reaction; by standing out.
Sure.
 

Forcerounds

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Hrmm... If only we had some evidence that 49 characters for the roster is too conservative of an estimate. Then we'd be in a better mood. It'd be a world where 6 character slots for Pokemon is ok, and 3 character slots for Metroid is affordable, and no other cuts from Brawl is plausible.
 

Diddy Kong

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Grass starters being the read haired stepchildren made me grin. :laugh:
 

RoysOurBoy

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I'm still pretty confident that we will get Mewtwo, Palutena, and maybe Ridley for an amount of reasons.

Mewtwo
-plenty of space on the roster for him (6 PKMN characters in Brawl)
-highly requested
-Sakurai said in a press conference that "we're thinking about it" when confronted about possible Mewtwo return
-I know I wasn't the only one screaming MEWTWO as soon as I saw the Pokeballs fly at the beginning of the trailer and when I saw a three fingered bipedal figure charging up a ball. Sakurai did that completely on purpose.

Palutena
-Pit's Final Smash change
-the leak was not disconfirmed
-the Pseudo-Palutena trophy. Sakurai is a TROLL.
-also highly requested

Ridley
-Sakurai's comments about scale and size.
-the big reason: Sakurai almost refuses to officially disconfirm him, which makes me think something is up.
-SAKURAI IS A TROLL.

I never really supported Ridley as a character in the first place, but as many references as Sakurai is making towards him without disconfirming makes me think that something big is planned. He has trolled us on all three of these characters, and has to know how wanted they are. Sakurai has said repeatedly that he wants things to be a "surprise". That is why he is making us think that these three characters are disconfirmed, so right when we completely doubt them, he will reveal them.

This all payback for watching leaked Subspace footage on YouTube.
 

Manny Toons

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After all the blatant trolling Sakurai pulled during the direct, I don't see how anyone can be completely positive about Ridley's fate. Playable or unplayable.
 

Joe D.

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You know, not everyone who is still debatig Ridley's chances are, "in denial," as some people say. I mean, we certainly were shown one possibility of Ridley's fate; but with absolutely no image of him yet, no specific name mentioned, no placement of, "Ridley," and ," Boss On Pyrosphere."

With no solid confirmation from the man who plays with his words like a small boy and a Hot Wheels Corvette, alot if his supporters and fans in speculation are left with a genuine sense of ambiguity; we see something more than what many people have considered the finish line for Ridley.

I'm not saying i'm right, but keeping an open mind to these ideas doesn't hurt, (unless we get a solid de-confirmation, then that's a nice cheap shot to the nads for die-hard Ridley fans.)
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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I'm still pretty confident that we will get Mewtwo, Palutena, and maybe Ridley for an amount of reasons.

Mewtwo
-plenty of space on the roster for him (6 PKMN characters in Brawl)
-highly requested
-Sakurai said in a press conference that "we're thinking about it" when confronted about possible Mewtwo return
-I know I wasn't the only one screaming MEWTWO as soon as I saw the Pokeballs fly at the beginning of the trailer and when I saw a three fingered bipedal figure charging up a ball. Sakurai did that completely on purpose.

Palutena
-Pit's Final Smash change
-the leak was not disconfirmed
-the Pseudo-Palutena trophy. Sakurai is a TROLL.
-also highly requested

Ridley
-Sakurai's comments about scale and size.
-the big reason: Sakurai almost refuses to officially disconfirm him, which makes me think something is up.
-SAKURAI IS A TROLL.

I never really supported Ridley as a character in the first place, but as many references as Sakurai is making towards him without disconfirming makes me think that something big is planned. He has trolled us on all three of these characters, and has to know how wanted they are. Sakurai has said repeatedly that he wants things to be a "surprise". That is why he is making us think that these three characters are disconfirmed, so right when we completely doubt them, he will reveal them.

This all payback for watching leaked Subspace footage on YouTube.
And thus Trollerai strikes back with a vengeance. :troll:
 
D

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Hrmm... If only we had some evidence that 49 characters for the roster is too conservative of an estimate. Then we'd be in a better mood. It'd be a world where 6 character slots for Pokemon is ok, and 3 character slots for Metroid is affordable, and no other cuts from Brawl is plausible.
To be fair, 49 characters has been on the low end for awhile. Remember that before Pokémon Trainer, most people used slots to discuss number of characters for the game; even after Sakurai came out to say that Brawl had thirty-nine characters overall and Melee had twenty-six characters; not thirty-five and twenty-five respectively. Now that transformation are gone, we'll actually be discussing how many characters WILL be in and not how many slots.

I can't see us getting less than fifty characters for this game when all is said and done.
 
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andimidna

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New chance chart:

Not too many changes though.
Smash Bros Newcomer tiers chance (6) top Roster.png

Here's mine.
Greninja goes to the top.
Palutena went up.
Mewtwo went down.
Mii went down.
King K Rool zoomed way up.
Dixie went down a bit.
Isaac went up a bit.
Ridley went down a lot.

PRETEND GHIRAHIM IS A BIT LOWER, ZELDA NEWCOMER JUST GOT A BIT LESS LIKELY

Anna went up.
Tiki is gone.
Midna is gone.
Saki is gone.

RANDOM=THAT RYTHYM HEAVEN GUY PEOPLE ARE SUDDENLY TALKING ABOUT

Cranky went down.
Tingle moved up a bit.
Tetra went down a bit.
Goroh is gone.
Black Shadow went up a bit.
Isa went up a bit.
Lip went down a lot.
Waddle Dee went down a bit.
Impa went down a lot.
Micaiah went up a bit.

PRETEND MATTHEW IS HIGHER
PRETEND BOWSER JR AND PAPER MARIO ARE AT THE END OF THE SECOND TO LAST TIER.

Suggestions?
 
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Espio264

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So now that I've had 24 hours to digest it, this is what I'm thinking. (Also with these new pictures on the web today, further thinking.)
WIth everything shown, he's obviously holding tight to Brawl's memory, but this time wants to improve on some things.

Obvious things first:
- Metaknight, Wario and Captain Falcon were indirectly confirmed, though they've all been no brainers the whole time.
(Now with Franklin Badge and Mr. Saturn in the pictures, I'd say Ness is a lock as well, but again, duh.)
- Palutena is all but confirmed. Pit's final smash and the trophy trolling made it a done deal.
- A Fire Emblem Awakening character is imminent. (Chrom, Lucina or Robin are all welcome in my book.)
- I love Ivysaur and Squirtle, but I don't have much hope left for them. And I think people should have even less hope for a Grass Starter character that's not Ivysaur.
- Not showing Isaac (and to a lesser extent Tingle and maybe 1 or 2 others) doesn't mean much, but should give us hope.
- The Kremlings mean that K. Rool was a consideration for at least a second. (There's more hope now than ever before.)

Less obvious things:
- Ridley's a stage hazard. He's the "boss" on Pyrosphere. But then again he was TWO DIFFERENT bosses in Brawl. He has multiple forms, like Toon Link and Conductor Link, a stage element himself. And giving the argument, "It'd be weird to have him fighting himself", Sakurai published pictures of Samus fighting Zero Suit Samus. Same deal in my book. And if Spirit Tracks can change based on Toon Link's appearance, then why couldn't Pyrosphere do the same for Ridley? Like I said, he seems to be holding tight to Brawl, a game in which they made TWO Ridley models, why not modify one (hopefully the Super Metroid one) into a playable character? And plus we all know the shadow was Ridley. Why not just come out with it? He thinks he's cute, but he knows we're not stupid. Why keep holding it over our head if he's JUST A BOSS? Even with all that said, I'm only giving him a 25% chance now, but it's still better than I'd give most characters.

- About Ike. Like I said before, he's big into perfecting Brawl's shortcomings this go round. So why cut an original character with a fun moveset? We have last game's "flavor of the month" Pokemon in Lucario again as well as a new Pokemon, why would they not treat FE similarly?

- Mewtwo. I want him so bad, and I'm gonna grasp at every straw possible. But my big straw from this is Mega Evolutions. Lucario and Charizard are BOTH getting Mega Evolutions. And Mewtwo had a Mega Evolution before we even knew what Mega Evolutions were. I would like to believe that Mewtwo was on the table before developing ME's for Lucario and Charizard was. Plus he explicitly said he was catering to fan expectations with the ME he showed, and there are no higher Pokemon specific fan expectations than Mewtwo's return. It's not set in stone, but it still looks pretty good from where I'm sitting.

- I'm not gonna say that I expect specific characters to be cut, but with Squirtle and Ivysaur's absence, I'm gonna say at least one is probable. Wolf and Lucas seem suspect, but I honestly don't wanna see either of them go. And Snake is either in or he's not. It's not that they would choose to cut him, it's that, as things went down, he won't be included this time. The people with the money made this decision.

- So much mind blowing stuff was shown, but I think he's still got us in the dark about a lot. I think the roster size is something for us to be optimistic about. I'd expect 6 to 8 more newcomers, as well as 95% of Brawl's roster back. (2 cuts max, 4 if Ivysaur and Squirtle are indeed gone.)

And, as always, Falco's the man. That is all.
 

kikaru

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Oh believe me, I don't want Ike cut. I prefer Ike to Chrom. But I think people should rethink Chrom after seeing what Sakurai has done with other characters. Chrom seems lame at first, but just think about how many different ways a person can use a sword.

There's potential, we're just going to have to wait to see if Sakurai taps into it or not.
Agreed. Not saying Little Mac isn't unique in any way (In fact he's an incredibly well designed character) but if Sakurai is able to make a fresh, interesting, and fun as hell moveset for someone who primarily uses fists and pretty much only fists, regardless if the boxer archtype didn't exist in Smash beforehand, I'm starting to have more faith in Chrom again despite the fact that the concept of a duo is essentially shut down.
 

BaPr

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I'm really hope we get enough characters to have a roster divisible by 5 (Including random option). The only character that I wanted to be in that isn't so far is Blaziken, but with the characters we have right now, I'm fine with not having him.
 

Rockaphin

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I'm not the biggest Ridley supporter but even I think Ridley is possible. Unless Sakurai is just trolling us really hard, why didn't he just directly reveal Ridley as a boss character along with the Yellow Devil?
 

Kenith

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I don't know why some people are so confident Mewtwo or Jigglypuff are cut or not included.

We probably have the same amount of Pokemon characters as Brawl, but two new characters. Obviously, someone must be removed.

Mewtwo replacing almost any Pokemon from Brawl is better than not having him. But Jigglypuff is a Smash staple, and Lucario is very unique and popular. Why not cut one the two characters tacked on to complete a mechanic no longer in the game?
For someone looking at the whole thing broadly, this is the best case scenario.
It doesn't bother me that Squirtle is replaced by Greninja because, quite frankly, Greninja is a lot more unique as a fighter, which is what its really about.
 

Warp Star Lover

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C'mon man. With so many gameplay changes going on in this game, do you really think Sakurai wouldn't even touch Mewtwo? Obviously floaty characters aren't a big deal because queen zero-gravity Rosalina herself is probably the floatiest character we have apart from Mewtwo and Solid Snake.
Luma is the "star" of that pair. Rosalina's just the enabler. The floatiness doesn't mean as much to the character as it did to Mewtwo.

Now, onto this "we need a Grass-type Pokémon" garbage that decided to spring up faster than the Black Plague on a turbo strapped flea. There is no indication whatsoever though precedent that Sakurai even cares about having a balance in types anymore than he's been concerned with the balance in generations. That is what the Pokéball characters are for. The only reason it happened with PKMN Trainer is because he was a Pokémon trainer; that is his schtick.
Besides the "replacing Trainer" theory, a fire-type and a water-type showing up at the same time just screams to me "grass newcomer to be announced".
 
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Scoliosis Jones

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Pokemon Trainer was THE character I would make an exception for my "no cuts" mentality.

I'm completely fine with Squirtle and Ivysaur possibly not coming back, especially if that means Mewtwo comes back. That actually would create an incredible lineup of characters.
 

NickerBocker

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Grass-type as a pokemon Newcomer? Thats exactly what SakuraI wants you to believe. The guy is notorious for c-c-combo breaking. He does something twice so people over analyzing will catch it, then he turns around and destroys expectations.

Sakurai has added Charizard, then Greninja, now a grass-type right? Not necessarily.
 

Gunla

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Sakurai must be well versed in Killer Instinct.
The guy will shatter your predictions unless you know what the trends are, which means counter breakers.
Pokemon Trainer was THE character I would make an exception for my "no cuts" mentality.

I'm completely fine with Squirtle and Ivysaur possibly not coming back, especially if that means Mewtwo comes back. That actually would create an incredible lineup of characters.
I'm fairly certain we are getting 5, and at least one of those 4 will be it. Hopefully Mewtwo. Sakurai hyped it up, and eventually he'll deliver something.
 
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Starphoenix

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Luma is the "star" of that pair. Rosalina's just the enabler. The floatiness doesn't mean as much to the character as it did to Mewtwo.
That... Has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Besides the "replacing Trainer" theory, an fire-type and a water-type showing up at the same time just screams to me "grass newcomer to be announced".
Nobody "replaced" the trainer, he was broken up. Probably for gameplay reasons more than anything else.
 

FlareHabanero

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Pokemon Trainer was THE character I would make an exception for my "no cuts" mentality.

I'm completely fine with Squirtle and Ivysaur possibly not coming back, especially if that means Mewtwo comes back. That actually would create an incredible lineup of characters.
Well, you got to keep in mind that the idea was pretty much hopeless to be fixed. Even if you removed the tacked on gimmicks, you'd still have three very lackluster characters to use due to the intense mentality of trying to keep each character in check. Basically every character was 1/3 of a whole. Hence why with Charizard going solo, it gives me hope his moveset will be better fleshed out with the factor of Pokemon Trainer gone.
 
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JamesDNaux

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Toad is not out yet guys! We can have Blue Toad!

It's not nice to blatantly troll you know, we aren't bagging on you about Sheik.

I'm doubtful of Ridley myself, but I'm not going to pass any final judgement until we know the whole roster.

In regards to Pokemon, I'm just going to guess we get Mewtwo back but lose Jigglypuff. Sure we could get both, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 

Warp Star Lover

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Grass-type as a pokemon Newcomer? Thats exactly what SakuraI wants you to believe. The guy is notorious for c-c-combo breaking. He does something twice so people over analyzing will catch it, then he turns around and destroys expectations.

Sakurai has added Charizard, then Greninja, now a grass-type right? Not necessarily.
Possibly, but with Charizard getting carried over from its previous game and Mewtwo not, among everything else regarding Pokemon, a full-trio comeback seems a lot more likely to me.

Nobody "replaced" the trainer, he was broken up.
Same thing.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Well, you got to keep in mind that the idea was pretty much hopeless to be fixed. Even if you removed the tacked on gimmicks, you'd still have three very lackluster characters to use due to the intense mentality of trying to keep each character in check. Basically every character was 1/3 of a whole. Hence why with Charizard going solo, it gives me hope his moveset will be better fleshed out with the factor of Pokemon Trainer gone.
I agree 100%. I think it was the right call, and quite honestly I think Ivysaur and Squirtle are out the door. Mewtwo and Jiggly are the only two I see happening for Pokemon now, and I don't mind that whatsoever.

Frankly, if I like Greninja enough, I might not even care about Mewtwo not making it.
 

Autumn ♫

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I think I may know why Skull Kid only turns the stage upside down for his Assist. We may possibly have Termina Bay return, making the moon fall completely useless. Could also explain why Tingle wasn't shown as an Assist.
 

Gunla

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Frankly, if I like Greninja enough, I might not even care about Mewtwo not making it.
Agreed. Seriously, if I can make two analogies to how Greninja has gotten recieved at direct first glance, the first two characters I think of are Evil Ryu and Decapre, dare I say it. If we got Sylux instead of Ridley, Cranky instead of K Rool, etc, that's how it would be. Sakurai doesn't really have to cater to hype or fans just because they want it.

Greninja isn't bad, he won't kill Mewtwo or Jiggs. But what it does is add something really cool to the roster. No denial here, G-Ninja looks already very unique and similar to Hiryu in some aspects (which gets a giant yes from me) and a style not really seen in Smash.
 
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