Character Discussion Thread

[Scoliosis Jones]

From the item information, as well as enemies from certain series and Assist Trophy reveals, I think we can safely say that Falcon, Ice Climbers, Ness and or Lucas, and Wario have essentially been confirmed without actually being officially confirmed.

We got Goroh as the F-Zero Assist Trophy, The Ice Climbers content, the Mother/Earthbound items, and Waluigi as a Wario series Assist Trophy.

I must say however, that the leak that came up yesterday is suspicious. I have to say I'm inclined to believe it myself. He got Wii Fit Trainer, Mega Man, Little Mac, Villager, and now an "X/Y Pokemon" correct. He still has Palutena (who is all but confirmed at this point) Chrom, Shulk, Miis, and Pac-Man. Almost forgot about the Chorus Boys or whatever. If they make it, it has to be true. That would be too many lucky guesses for it to be simply "lucky".

Like I said, I'm inclined to believe that leak.

@SaturnGamer64 The concept of "reps" is a fan made concept that really doesn't have much apparent connection to the game. Characters are just that. Characters. They count toward the total amount per series if we're being objective. If the Director of the game views it that way, then that is objectively what the roster equals out to. 39 characters.

The concept of "reps" doesn't even necessarily exist.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@SaturnGamer64 The concept of "reps" is a fan made concept that really doesn't have much apparent connection to the game. Characters are just that. Characters. They count toward the total amount per series if we're being objective. If the Director of the game views it that way, then that is objectively what the roster equals out to. 39 characters.

The concept of "reps" doesn't even necessarily exist.

That's not really true. I define reps as the one full character concept or pack of fighters that support each other or interchange through battle. Zelda and Sheik are separate fighters, but they fit together in one character icon as a pack. So while there are 5 Zelda fighters, there are 4 Zelda icons on screen to make it seem like it matches up with Mario and Pokemon, which you must admit is something Sakurai seems as important. I don't think he's gonna put more Pokemon in screen than Mario.

I do think the amount of characters on the character select screen DOES matter, which is why I've pretty much given up on Tetra and picking between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. Unless we get to 6 in which I have hopes for Paper Mario, Tetra, and both Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.

 

[FalKoopa]

That's not really true. I define reps as the one full character concept or pack of fighters that support each other or interchange through battle.

There's the problem. People have assigned their own meanings to the word 'rep'.

Sakurai hasn't used the word even once in his many interviews, so it's an ambiguous term and should be avoided.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

And no comments on my roster?

Face it, Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't coming back. They're pretty meaningless when you take away the context of the Pokemon Trainer, and I doubt there will be 2 of the same types of Pokemon. It's pretty obvious that they are gone considering Charizard was the only one shown off as a separate character and treated as a newcomer. And we can't really fit in every veteran.

It's much more plausible that Charizard was the only one taken and the others dropped out as he is the most popular Pokemon and the other 2 aren't very important as stand alone Pokemon.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

There's the problem. People have assigned their own meanings to the word 'rep'.

Sakurai hasn't used the word even once in his many interviews, so it's an ambiguous term and should be avoided.

So are you saying the proper term is Representative?

 

[Substitution]

And no comments on my roster?

I have one.
Those graphics are amazing! It's like the real thing!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Did anyone else notice my Newcomer box has dropped by like 13 characters?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So are you saying the proper term is Representative?

No, what he's saying is that it isn't a term that can truly be used to describe something because of the billions of different opinions people can have on its meaning. Sakurai has never used the word or considered the roster like that.

Anyway, I do also believe Squirtle and Ivysaur are goners. I can only hope Mewtwo can come back.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Brand spankin' new and stylized roster!

• I'm still not sure what to think about Dixie vs K. Rool, but it seems more than reasonable that one of them is getting in. They share a spot because of that.
• Still holding out for Mewtwo, considering 6 Pokemon characters were in Brawl and could be in this game as well. That said, Ivysaur and Squirtle are cut.
• I get the feeling that if we do get another old-series representative, we'll only get one more, considering no series truly needs another representative while Ridley's chances have been put up to question now more than ever. Waddle Dee and Tingle survived the Direct's onslaught of disconfirmations while a Fire Emblem character is a topic I wouldn't touch with a 40-foot pole.
  
• Palutena is pretty much a lock.
• There seems to be room for only one more new-series newcomer, based on how Smash 3DS' release isn't that far away and we're unlikely to have a roster that even reaches 49. Probably either Takamaru, Isaac, Shulk, Chibi-Robo, Muddy Mole, Andy, Marshal, or Lip.
  
• A third-party, while I think isn't that likely at this point, is still in the realm of possible. Professor Layton or Pac-Man seem to be the most likely for this. Snake is cut for both Kojima saying Snake hasn't even been considered yet while Sheik's new special takes away his major niche.

 

[NickerBocker]

They could easily include Jiggs and Mewtwo. Pokemon Trainer is no more, so theres 3 potentially open slots. Greninja and Charizard filled 2, so theres one left in that sense.

Pokemon Trainer takes more development time than 3 characters do separately, due to balance and whatnot. I can now see the Pokemon lineup being Pikachu, Jiggs, Lucario, Charizard, Greninja and Mewtwo.

This puts things quite up in the air because Sakurai stated a while back that "there are no cuts thus far" but also stated "not all characters will come back for this iteration." We dont know the full circumstances, because with PKMN TRNR now gone, there may be other plans for cuts as well.

Jiggs being a 64 veteran, I think she is more probable to stay than Mewtwo being included, although I do think there is a high chance that they are both included to round off the Pokemon roster.

 

[FalKoopa]

So are you saying the proper term is Representative?

Nope, I mean that 'characters' and 'slots' are the only words that should be used.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Anyway, I do also believe Squirtle and Ivysaur are goners. I can only hope Mewtwo can come back.

Good, I couldn't take anymore after the Ridley denial. I'm trying to convince myself it's like a joke that everyone's in on, because the alternative is much more terrifying.

They could easily include Jiggs and Mewtwo. Pokemon Trainer is no more, so theres 3 potentially open slots.

Why does everyone act like the Pokemon Trainer in the background counted as a playable fighter? That's more ridiculous than counting each individual Pikmin type.

 

[Substitution]

Brand spankin' new and stylized roster!

...Let me guess.
ZX Spectrum?

 

[Deleted member]

Unlike Mario, Pokémon doesn't have a central cast of characters and so needs more characters to get properly represented.

I'm posting my revised roster, by the way.

You drew this yourself? You're really artistic.

I doubt Squirtle/Ivysaur are coming back, especially Squirtle. They're simply not on the same level as Charizard and Greninja takes a water-type place. That aside it's hard to pick faults with the roster aside from maybe Isaac/Takamaru, but that whole retro/assist trophy to playable character section of any roster is debatable, so your guess is as good as anyone's.

 

[FalKoopa]

Face it, Squirtle and Ivysaur aren't coming back. They're pretty meaningless when you take away the context of the Pokemon Trainer, and I doubt there will be 2 of the same types of Pokemon. It's pretty obvious that they are gone considering Charizard was the only one shown off as a separate character and treated as a newcomer. And we can't really fit in every veteran.

It's much more plausible that Charizard was the only one taken and the others dropped out as he is the most popular Pokemon and the other 2 aren't very important as stand alone Pokemon.

I'm 50/50 on removing Squirtle and Ivysaur, but I've kept them since I think there is a fair chance that they have really been separated.
Sheik is a bit meaningless without Zelda too. (A weak point though, I concede).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sheik is a bit meaningless without Zelda too. (A weak point though, I concede).

I'm actually REALLY preplexed as to why she wasn't just replaced with Impa. I wasn't expecting seperation or characters to be removed, but now that they are...why not just Impa. I mean I don't LIKE Impa, but you have to admit it makes more sense than a separated Sheik.

@Diddy Kong : What do you think about Impa missing out on this opportunity?

 

[Tepig2000]

My new prediction roster. I don't think Squirtle and Ivysaur are likely, but I would feel bad if I didn't include them.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Good, I couldn't take anymore after the Ridley denial. I'm trying to convince myself it's like a joke that everyone's in on, because the alternative is much more terrifying.

Oh no I agree. I feel terrible for the Ridley fans, but there's not wanting to believe something, and then complete denial. There's a massive amount of denial in the RIdley thread.

I can't say I blame people. They're heavily devoted to the character. But, I myself wouldn't want to be so heavily invested into a character that I wouldn't want to buy the game if they didn't make it. I love Smash Bros no matter what. I an easily pleased.

Hell, if I like Greninja enough, he might be a new main for me.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

More Ridley rosters.............................................................................................................bye.

Oh no I agree. I feel terrible for the Ridley fans, but there's not wanting to believe something, and then complete denial. There's a massive amount of denial in the RIdley thread.

This is like SCARY denial. How do you deny a 100% direct deconfirmation!? This proves that a lot of Smash speculators are biased and pretend to predict characters because they WANT them. And then act like the unrequested characters getting in are just absurd.

 

[Deleted member]

Brand spankin' new and stylized roster!

• I'm still not sure what to think about Dixie vs K. Rool, but it seems more than reasonable that one of them is getting in. They share a spot because of that.
• Still holding out for Mewtwo, considering 6 Pokemon characters were in Brawl and could be in this game as well. That said, Ivysaur and Squirtle are cut.
• I get the feeling that if we do get another old-series representative, we'll only get one more, considering no series truly needs another representative while Ridley's chances have been put up to question now more than ever. Waddle Dee and Tingle survived the Direct's onslaught of disconfirmations while a Fire Emblem character is a topic I wouldn't touch with a 40-foot pole.
  
• Palutena is pretty much a lock.
• There seems to be room for only one more new-series newcomer, based on how Smash 3DS' release isn't that far away and we're unlikely to have a roster that even reaches 49. Probably either Takamaru, Isaac, Shulk, Chibi-Robo, Muddy Mole, Andy, or Lip.
  
• A third-party, while I think isn't that likely at this point, is still in the realm of possible. Professor Layton or Pac-Man seem to be the most likely for this. Snake is cut for both Kojima saying Snake hasn't even been considered yet while Sheik's new special takes away his major niche.

Good, if very undecided roster. I don't think Dixie has a chance anymore. She has to clone Diddy's moves to work, the kremlings and lack of Tropical Freeze Snomads cemented Sakurai's 2012 mindset on DK and the continued focus on unique sets only helps K. Rool. I can only see her getting in if the roster is pretty huge, 50+, and after K. Rool.

View attachment 11794

My new prediction roster. I don't think Squirtle and Ivysaur are likely, but I would feel bad if I didn't include them.

This is basically how my roster would look, minus the two Pokemon.

By the way, congrats on your Greninja support thread and all that. I bet that was a nice surprise.

Ridley was not confirmed for being anything, there's good reason to believe it's a ruse. It would only be the tenth time.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

More Ridley rosters.............................................................................................................bye.


This is like SCARY denial. How do you deny a 100% direct deconfirmation!? This proves that a lot of Smash speculators are biased and pretend to predict characters because they WANT them. And then act like the unrequested characters getting in are just absurd.

That's why I maintain that any character CAN get into Smash Bros. Some are considered by the fans as more likely based on several factors, but nobody should be thrown out the window.

Like I said though, I can see people being upset about their favorite or most wanted character not making it. But lying to yourself only makes things worse. I know that from personal experience, and not just Smash Bros.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

...Let me guess.
ZX Spectrum?

Maybe. *Sniff* Maybe.

Good, if very undecided roster. I don't think Dixie has a chance anymore. She has to clone Diddy's moves to work, the kremlings and lack of Tropical Freeze Snomads cemented Sakurai's 2012 mindset on DK and the continued focus on unique sets only helps K. Rool. I can only see her getting in if the roster is pretty huge, 50+, and after K. Rool.

She doesn't have to clone Diddy's moves, and she was scrapped during Brawl's development. Between that and her role in DKCTF, which if Rosalina's role in Mario 3D World is anything to go by, don't count her out just yet. That said, it can go either way, which is why I'm unsure on either of them.

 

[MagnesD3]

Oh no I agree. I feel terrible for the Ridley fans, but there's not wanting to believe something, and then complete denial. There's a massive amount of denial in the RIdley thread.

I can't say I blame people. They're heavily devoted to the character. But, I myself wouldn't want to be so heavily invested into a character that I wouldn't want to buy the game if they didn't make it. I love Smash Bros no matter what. I an easily pleased.

Hell, if I like Greninja enough, he might be a new main for me.

It's not all denial dude, you have to admit something fishy is going on either that or sakurai is really dumb.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'm actually REALLY preplexed as to why she wasn't just replaced with Impa. I wasn't expecting seperation or characters to be removed, but now that they are...why not just Impa. I mean I don't LIKE Impa, but you have to admit it makes more sense than a separated Sheik.

It was obviously done to avoid alienating his(her) fans. That seems pretty clear.

 

[NickerBocker]

Why does everyone act like the Pokemon Trainer in the background counted as a playable fighter? That's more ridiculous than counting each individual Pikmin type.

Sorry, let me be clearer. With Trainer cut, theres at least 3 slots availailable from a development standpoint. The pokemon trainer itself does not take a lot of dev resources, rather the combination of 3 characters being balanced together does take more time than just 3 separate ones. Charizard and Greninja filled 2 of thise spots. From a character standpoint, maybe not. However, if there is a maintaining of status quo, then It is logical to think the next 2 are jiggs and mewtwo.

I dont think Sakurai really cares about 'reps' outside of over repping certain series to a degree (whatever reps are, we shouldnt use that term.) That being said, Pokemon already had 6 characters previously, it would be foolish to think they couldnt get 6 (or more) this time around.

 

[Substitution]

Like I said though, I can see people being upset about their favorite or most wanted character not making it. But lying to yourself only makes things worse. I know that from personal experience, and not just Smash Bros.

I'd say less "lying" and more "desperation".

 

[Deleted member]

She doesn't have to clone Diddy's moves, and she was scrapped during Brawl's development. Between that and her role in DKCTF, which if Rosalina's role in Mario 3D World is anything to go by, don't count her out just yet. That said, it can go either way, which is why I'm unsure on either of them.

I don't think 3D World factored much into Rosalina, that was more Galaxy 1/2. There has been no content for 3D World in Smash yet. I also stand by my claim that Dixie Kong needs to clone Diddy, because I can't see much potential in her for a unique set. I'd love to hear a counter-argument on this as usually all I get is "she uses her hair." But we already got Midna as an assist trophy, and she has magical hair.

I can see Dixie getting in, but only if it's a last minute addition, which I find doubtful. Sakurai seems to be running a very tight ship this time and probably won't be adding too many clones like Wolf or Tink.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

It's not all denial dude, you have to admit something fishy is going on either that or sakurai is really dumb.

I don't think there's anything fishy about it. Ridley was hinted at during a section of the Direct that focused on Boss characters that would appear on different stages. Ridley makes perfect sense to appear as a Boss on Pyrosphere.

The tail means it's Other M Ridley, which would be consistent with both Samus' we have playable already. It should not be expected for Sakurai to put Super Metroid Ridley or any other version as playable at this point.

The idle animations that Ridley's shadow shows? Yellow Devil has an idle. Bosses will have that to give the player a chance to react and attack. There's nothing strange about it.

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't think there's anything fishy about it. Ridley was hinted at during a section of the Direct that focused on Boss characters that would appear on different stages. Ridley makes perfect sense to appear as a Boss on Pyrosphere.

The tail means it's Other M Ridley, which would be consistent with both Samus' we have playable already. It should not be expected for Sakurai to put Super Metroid Ridley or any other version as playable at this point.

The idle animations that Ridley's shadow shows? Yellow Devil has an idle. Bosses will have that to give the player a chance to react and attack. There's nothing strange about it.

So what your saying is sakurai is dumb enough to tease the most wanted western ssb character all year just to show him as a boss while not even mentioning his name where he straight up deconfirms other characters quickly to ease the pain? Like I said something is fishy or mr sakurai is pretty dumb...

 

[NickerBocker]

I don't think there's anything fishy about it. Ridley was hinted at during a section of the Direct that focused on Boss characters that would appear on different stages. Ridley makes perfect sense to appear as a Boss on Pyrosphere.

The tail means it's Other M Ridley, which would be consistent with both Samus' we have playable already. It should not be expected for Sakurai to put Super Metroid Ridley or any other version as playable at this point.

The idle animations that Ridley's shadow shows? Yellow Devil has an idle. Bosses will have that to give the player a chance to react and attack. There's nothing strange about it.

The one thing I dont understand is why hide it? (other than just to troll?) I mean, his wing in the video even blocks the camera briefly, so its clear that the model is complete. Also, its movement seemed to be jerky, almost like someone was controlling him, as in hes playable. (Im probably reaching a little bit, I just find the whole scene suspicious.)

They could easily include a playable Ridley and a boss ridley. *insert Alfonzo joke here*

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I consider Ridley to be straight-up disconfirmed.

Anyways, I knew that Zoroark never had a good chance of being in this game and considering that she has been disconfirmed, I cannot say that was remotely surprising.

 

[Croph]

Not surprised the Pokemon Company is pushing for more X/Y representation. It's just that I never thought Greninja will be playable.

Always wondered if Lucario would receive a Mega Evolution (and Mewtwo if he returns), and, well, yeah... Still wondering if Greninja's more of a push from the Pokemon Company -- I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Not that it's a bad thing... it's just that my only fear is if the PC rejects the idea of Mewtwo, but I can't really see this happening. Mewtwo's at his prime now, and if we get a similar case to what happened in Brawl, then I pray for DLC.

 

[Sehnsucht]

The one thing I dont understand is why hide it? (other than just to troll?) I mean, his wing in the video even blocks the camera briefly, so its clear that the model is complete. Also, its movement seemed to be jerky, almost like someone was controlling him, as in hes playable. (Im probably reaching a little bit, I just find the whole scene suspicious.)

They could easily include a playable Ridley and a boss ridley. *insert Alfonzo joke here*

To clarify, it's the tip of Other M Ridley's tail that eclipses the screen briefly, and not his wing.

I also agree that whatever Ridley's status, only showing him indirectly strikes me as a curious move. Is this supposed to get people excited for Hazardley? Having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one, and I say this as someone who isn't championing Ridley's continued playable viability as a plausible stance.

 

[Joe D.]

So let's just take a look at characters that are still on the table after the direct.

Palutena, Shulk, Dixie, Chrom, Lucina, Roy, Isaac, Krystal, K. Rool, Takamaru, Mach Rider, Mewtwo (to a lesser extent,) Kat and Ana, (I can explain if you all want me too,) Chorus Men, Mii, (to an extremely lesser extent,) Ridley, (Not denial, but more of a curious standpoint,) Ray, Muddy Mole, Cpt. Rainbow, Lip, Crankey, Black Shadow.

And people on Miiverse were saying we have no more options, sheesh.

 

[NickerBocker]

Not surprised the Pokemon Company is pushing for more X/Y representation. It's just that I never thought Greninja will be playable.

Always wondered if Lucario would receive a Mega Evolution (and Mewtwo if he returns), and, well, yeah... Still wondering if Greninja's more of a push from the Pokemon Company -- I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. Not that it's a bad thing... it's just that my only fear is if the PC rejects the idea of Mewtwo, but I can't really see this happening. Mewtwo's at his prime now, and if we get a similar case to what happened in Brawl, then I pray for DLC.

Among the new starters, I would say he is the most popular, and starters are usually very popular as it is, because all players are exposed to them immediately, forcing them to make decisions and opinions on them. The competitive scene also likes him. It follows Sakurais statement on "we do research on [Pokemon] and ask whos the hot pokemon? Who is being featured in the newest movies? Things like that." So while non of us suspected him too much, with the information of Pokemon trainer being cut, some of us may have bid more on him. We were all under the impression that "there are no cuts thus far" meant there will be no cuts, but we were wrong.

To clarify, it's the tip of Other M Ridley's tail that eclipses the screen briefly, and not his wing

Oh okay. I knew it was something. Either way it is suspicious.

 

[FalKoopa]

I also agree that whatever Ridley's status, only showing him indirectly strikes me as a curious move. Is this supposed to get people excited for Hazardley? Having a hard time wrapping my brain around this one, and I say this as someone who isn't championing Ridley's continued playable viability as a plausible stance.

It was a strange move.

In all the info about the game we know, Ridley hasn't been mentioned even once by name, and all we've seen of him is his shadow and tail. A case can be made that he is teasing us, much like Toon Link in the Spirit Train stage. He must have an ulterior motive for stretching out the teasing/trolling so long

 

[bryanoid]

It was a strange move.

In all the info about the game we know, Ridley hasn't been mentioned even once by name, and all we've seen of him is his shadow and tail. A case can be made that he is teasing us, much like Toon Link in the Spirit Train stage. He must have an ulterior motive for stretching out the teasing/trolling so long

Why is Lip greyed out in your sig? Nothing deconfirmed her yet.

 

[Sehnsucht]

It was a strange move.

In all the info about the game we know, Ridley hasn't been mentioned even once by name, and all we've seen of him is his shadow and tail. A case can be made that he is teasing us, much like Toon Link in the Spirit Train stage. He must have an ulterior motive for stretching out the teasing/trolling so long

At this point, it's not even about whether Sakurai is "trolling" anyone.

If Ridley is a Stage Hazard, then drawing out explicit Word of God confirmation in the way he has done for the past several months is baffling. Why not simply show him in his fully Hazardley For Glory?

If Ridley is actually playable, then massively misleading the audience into assuming his disconfirmation, only to later reveal him as playable as a protracted fake-out (e.g. at E3) seems to be a bad joke at best. Why tease Ridley as a non-playable character when he actually is, and thereby screw around with your fanbase in counter-productive ways?

While the former outcome seems most probable at the moment, neither of these scenarios make much sense to me. I'm now eager for Sakurai's official statements on Ridley's status in the game, if only for the possibility of getting some insight into his rationale behind handling Ridley's role in SSB4 (and the advertisement thereof).

 

[Substitution]

If Ridley is actually playable, then massively misleading the audience into assuming his disconfirmation, only to later reveal him as playable as a protracted fake-out (e.g. at E3) seems to be a bad joke at best. Why tease Ridley as a non-playable character when he actually is, and thereby screw around with your fanbase in counter-productive ways?

Because Sakurai.

 

[Sonicshuffle]

People need to stop acting like thinking Ridley still has a chance is "scary denial" like we're all zombified fans. I don't play Metroid and I don't even like it but people have said it before and I'll say it again. Sakurai is unpredictable. I remember when everyone kept saying Toon Link is gone because he's in the background. We've seen what of Ridley? Is Sakurai really known for straight and honest answers? Lighten up and stop acting like we're all deluded fanboys.