Character Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Ok, I'm starting to think you guys are trying to pull a big joke on me

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ok, I'm starting to think you guys are trying to pull a big joke on me

Yes.

Yes, they were.

 

[Substitution]

Anyway, seeing Chao makes me want to seem them as an AT... or an item?!... Omochao?

Omochao shall be "Mr. Resetti 2.0"!
He will tell you all kinds of secrets though. So it's different.
Did you know you could jump. How you ask?
Well, it's by a complicated maneuver called "pressing the jump button".

It's tricky at first, but once you've mastered it you'll act like a Smash pro!

 

[False Sense]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

I can't actually answer that myself, but I would think probably not, or at least to a much lesser degree compared to now. Having two characters who look alike from the same series isn't quite as odd as three, I think.

Ok, I'm starting to think you guys are trying to pull a big joke on me

Sometimes I wonder about you...

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Yes.

Yes they were.

It was actually pretty funny, but what's the topic as of right now?

 

[SuperBrawler]

New topic: Retros. List the one you like the most! the most unique! and the most likely.

Then do the same with "Other" characters, that aren't retro.

 

[Deleted member]

But to be serious, Walhart for Smash.
I don't care how ridiculous the idea is to others.

 

[Pacack]

What really strikes me about this roster are the placements of Chrom and Robin in the same tier, and K. Rool above Dixie. As a strong advocate for Robin, I'm not so sure I'd say that Robin is as likely as Chrom. I think that he stands a fair chance, and that he seems to get brushed aside as a good option in the whole Fire Emblem debate, but I don't think he's on equal footing as Chrom. That's so painful for me to say, by the way... As for Dixie and K. Rool, I would personally think they should be equal. Both have their positives and negatives, and at this point it's very hard to say which one Sakurai would favor. We're more than likely going to get one or the other, but I don't think either is necessarily more likely than the other.

So, if I were to change this up at all, I'd probably move Robin down a rank and move Dixie up a rank.

...Kind of weird how I'm basically advocating against what I actually want in the game right now...

(Do keep in mind that my tiers are not completely "equal". Chrom being higher than Robin in the same tier means he's more likely.)

This opinion is one that I hold as a Toad supporter.

If the character that made the most sense were to always be picked, we would not have Rosalina.

Rosalina helped Robin immensely and hurt Chrom noticeably. Since Rosalina was more unique, Toad was passed over. I believe the same thing is going to happen for Chrom and Robin.

...However, I should probably put more distance between them.


When it comes to K. Rool and Dixie, I had a reason behind that. If Dixie was completed, she should have been revealed back when Tropical Freeze released. This leads me to believe that K. Rool was given higher priority and that Dixie is most likely the Wolf of this game (semi-clone for the end of the development period) if she is to get in at all.

(Something of note is that K. Rool's reveal would not hurt Dixie's chances too much in my eyes, since the DK series is more than able to handle two newcomers.)

 

[Bowserlick]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

Yes, I did.

It didn't work out very well for me.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

To a much lesser degree.

It probably helps that Ike was a Lord that defied the conventions of a typical Lord, like for example being a more rough character due to his mercenary heritage. This is even highlighted in Super Smash Bros. where there is a clear cut difference between Marth and Ike's playstyle. However, when people are saying "blue haired swordsman", they are more so referring to the redundancy of all three characters on the roster.

 

[Kenith]

But to be serious, Walhart for Smash.
I don't care how ridiculous the idea is to others.

I'd be down with that. Though if we're just requesting characters now, I vote Lon'qu. Or Cherche.
Or a Cherche and Virion tag team.

 

[andimidna]

Rosalina helped Robin immensely and hurt Chrom noticeably. Since Rosalina was more unique, Toad was passed over. I believe the same thing is going to happen for Chrom and Robin.

Wait... so just because one character that is less speculated than other characters of their series got confirmed
The chances of less speculated characters increase?

I love many less speculated characters, hell, Rosalina was my #2 most wanted before she was confirmed.
But... I just don't think this is the case.

 

[Kenith]

(Do keep in mind that my tiers are not completely "equal". Chrom being higher than Robin in the same tier means he's more likely.)

This opinion is one that I hold as a Toad supporter.

If the character that made the most sense were to always be picked, we would not have Rosalina.

Rosalina helped Robin immensely and hurt Chrom noticeably. Since Rosalina was more unique, Toad was passed over. I believe the same thing is going to happen for Chrom and Robin.

...However, I should probably put more distance between them.


When it comes to K. Rool and Dixie, I had a reason behind that. If Dixie was completed, she should have been revealed back when Tropical Freeze released. This leads me to believe that K. Rool was given higher priority and that Dixie is most likely the Wolf of this game (semi-clone for the end of the development period) if she is to get in at all.

(Something of note is that K. Rool's reveal would not hurt Dixie's chances too much in my eyes, since the DK series is more than able to handle two newcomers.)

Agreed. Yet you seem to detest Ghirahim (or Midna) and other character I enjoy.

 

[False Sense]

(Do keep in mind that my tiers are not completely "equal". Chrom being higher than Robin in the same tier means he's more likely.)

This opinion is one that I hold as a Toad supporter.

If the character that made the most sense were to always be picked, we would not have Rosalina.

Rosalina helped Robin immensely and hurt Chrom noticeably. Since Rosalina was more unique, Toad was passed over. I believe the same thing is going to happen for Chrom and Robin.

...However, I should probably put more distance between them.


When it comes to K. Rool and Dixie, I had a reason behind that. If Dixie was completed, she should have been revealed back when Tropical Freeze released. This leads me to believe that K. Rool was given higher priority and that Dixie is most likely the Wolf of this game (semi-clone for the end of the development period) if she is to get in at all.

(Something of note is that K. Rool's reveal would not hurt Dixie's chances too much in my eyes, since the DK series is more than able to handle two newcomers.)

Well that's an interesting idea. Can't say I thought of Toad and Rosalina much when thinking about Fire Emblem. It sounds reasonable, though I would like to ask about the other potential Mario candidates, specifically Bowser Jr. Why were they passed over, when some of them could also be unique? I'd also like to know if Rosalina did, in fact, get in mostly for her moveset potential.

As for your reasoning for Dixie and K. Rool, I agree that her absence in the February was rather surprising. Actually, for me, it was shocking. To me, the Direct being on that exact date seemed too perfect a timing to pass up a reveal of Dixie, or more precisely, Diddy/Dixie as a tag team. The fact that such an opportunity was passed up is, I think, a point against Dixie. I'm not sure if it's enough to put her that much below K. Rool, but it does hurt, especially with no sign of Tropical Freeze influence in Smash 4 yet.

 

[Bowserlick]

I really do think Chrom has a chance, but only as a tagteam character. Otherwise, he has very little to offer Smash Brothers in terms of gameplay. Although, I suppose he is popular.

 

[Substitution]

Agreed. Yet you seem to detest Ghirahim (or Midna) and other character I enjoy.

To be fair.
Not a lot of people want Jontron for Smash...

 

[N3ON]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

I recall the focus being less on his hair colour and more on just being another relatively standard swordsman, as some people wanted a touch more "diversity" in the FE roster from the likes of Lyn, Hector, or Ephraim instead.

 

[Pacack]

Wait... so just because one character that is less speculated than other characters of their series got confirmed
The chances of less speculated characters increase?

I love many less speculated characters, hell, Rosalina was my #2 most wanted before she was confirmed.
But... I just don't think this is the case.

*If they are more unique. Robin fits this criteria.

Agreed. Yet you seem to detest Ghirahim (or Midna) and other character I enjoy.

Midna I don't see the inherent uniqueness of, honestly. Could you explain it to me?

And I missed Ghirahim. I'll add him to C or D tier.

(I don't detest them, for the record. I'd actually be happy to see Ghirahim, in fact. I just don't think he'll be appearing due to his one-off status.)

 

[False Sense]

I recall the focus being less on his hair colour and more on just being another relatively standard swordsman, as some people wanted a touch more "diversity" in the FE roster from the likes of Lyn, Hector, or Ephraim instead.

A perfectly justifiable want, I'll say that much.

 

[Starcutter]

wait nevermind

 

[Pacack]

Well that's an interesting idea. Can't say I thought of Toad and Rosalina much when thinking about Fire Emblem. It sounds reasonable, though I would like to ask about the other potential Mario candidates, specifically Bowser Jr. Why were they passed over, when some of them could also be unique? I'd also like to know if Rosalina did, in fact, get in mostly for her moveset potential.

They're still in D tier, but I don't think another Mario character is terribly likely.

As for your reasoning for Dixie and K. Rool, I agree that her absence in the February was rather surprising. Actually, for me, it was shocking. To me, the Direct being on that exact date seemed too perfect a timing to pass up a reveal of Dixie, or more precisely, Diddy/Dixie as a tag team. The fact that such an opportunity was passed up is, I think, a point against Dixie. I'm not sure if it's enough to put her that much below K. Rool, but it does hurt, especially with no sign of Tropical Freeze influence in Smash 4 yet.

I'll move her a bit higher up. Admittedly, I was debating where to place her.

(Also, sorry. I missed your post at first.)[/quote]

 

[IsmaR]

I got a question for those who were around Pre-Brawl.

Did people use the "blue haired swordsman" argument against Ike before he was confirmed?

Not nearly as much as the swordhaired bluesman.

In fact I'm pretty sure the only people who were upset/against his inclusions were Lyn extremists and homophobes (srs).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I recall the focus being less on his hair colour and more on just being another relatively standard swordsman, as some people wanted a touch more "diversity" in the FE roster from the likes of Lyn, Hector, or Ephraim instead.

Again, the blue hair thing is a misdemeanor for referring to the lack originality.

Like you'll see it all the time when you apply it to Chrom, but if you tried to apply it to Takamaru it appears much less often.

 

[False Sense]

I think I might have been a bit unclear about the Mario character point I was making. I was asking as to why did Rosalina get in over characters like Bowser Jr.? Was it solely because of what she could offer as a unique character? Because characters like Bowser Jr. had plenty of unique potential, and had overall importance to the series. So why Rosalina?

 

[Bowserlick]

Bowser Jr. does represent one of the least liked 3D Mario games while Rosalina represents the more popular Galaxy games.

Cleaning up pollution? It was not a bad game, but it certainly seemed like a step backwards from 64 to me.

*Plus the Koopalings are cooler than Bowser Jr.
Everyone (yes, everyone) agrees on this.

 

[Pacack]

I think I might have been a bit unclear about the Mario character point I was making. I was asking as to why did Rosalina get in over characters like Bowser Jr.? Was it solely because of what she could offer as a unique character? Because characters like Bowser Jr. had plenty of unique potential, and had overall importance to the series. So why Rosalina?

I think the puppeteer moveset just won out over his paintbrushes in the end. It's a whole lot more unique than anything any other Mario character could have brought.

 

[shrooby]

Rosalina helped Robin immensely and hurt Chrom noticeably. Since Rosalina was more unique, Toad was passed over. I believe the same thing is going to happen for Chrom and Robin.

But you're ignoring popularity if you just look at it from that perspective. You're right that importance to a franchise alone doesn't get a character in, but Rosalina's and Toad's situations are different than Chrom and Robin's.
Chrom wouldn't get in just because he's important to Awakening. He's popular, which may or may not correlate with the fact that he's the main cover character of (IE is important to) Awakening. People want to play as Chrom. And those people are in larger numbers and are more vocal than those that want/wanted Toad. It makes Chrom stand out more when picking out characters. Where as Toad doesn't really have that factor. Which is why he was probably glossed over. Characters need to make people want to play the game after all. And sometimes uniqueness just isn't enough to give an entire roster that factor. You need the character that many people want to play as before seeing the character in action. Like Mega Man or Little Mac.

tl;dr: Don't compare Toads to husks of Corn. They're different situations the require different analyses.

 

[andimidna]

Well that's an interesting idea. Can't say I thought of Toad and Rosalina much when thinking about Fire Emblem. It sounds reasonable, though I would like to ask about the other potential Mario candidates, specifically Bowser Jr. Why were they passed over, when some of them could also be unique? I'd also like to know if Rosalina did, in fact, get in mostly for her moveset potential.

As for your reasoning for Dixie and K. Rool, I agree that her absence in the February was rather surprising. Actually, for me, it was shocking. To me, the Direct being on that exact date seemed too perfect a timing to pass up a reveal of Dixie, or more precisely, Diddy/Dixie as a tag team. The fact that such an opportunity was passed up is, I think, a point against Dixie. I'm not sure if it's enough to put her that much below K. Rool, but it does hurt, especially with no sign of Tropical Freeze influence in Smash 4 yet.

Diddy is more important than Dixie in every way. So he comes first.
And Little Mac is a much higher priority reveal.
He was more requested, wanted, speculated, everything.
I'm not surprised they chose him. He caused more hype than Dixie would.
Nintendo advertised the **** out of Tropical Freeze already, they even did it more later in that direct. There was no need for Dixie on that day.
Also, no DK character on the day of the only DK game during development cannot raise a different DK character's chances just because they were once again absent from the game.
Don't try to distract from the main issue. It's not that there was no Dixie on the date of Tropical Freeze, it's that there was not K Rool in Tropical Freeze at all.

 

[Substitution]

Again, the blue hair thing is a misdemeanor for referring to the lack originality.

Like you'll see it all the time when you apply it to Chrom, but if you tried to apply it to Takamaru it appears much less often.

I think we're looking at blue hair wrong.
See, if anything, it shows class.

Ever wonder why it's almost always the protagonist that has the blue hair? Or at least, a major character?

Because it looks cool. And characters have to be built to look cool (apparently).
I believe that we should bring them down. But instead, appreciate their unique qualities.
Even if five other people have it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think I might have been a bit unclear about the Mario character point I was making. I was asking as to why did Rosalina get in over characters like Bowser Jr.? Was it solely because of what she could offer as a unique character? Because characters like Bowser Jr. had plenty of unique potential, and had overall importance to the series. So why Rosalina?

I'd like to think it's because she's basically the Mario franchise's answer to Lucario.

A breakout character from recent events.

This is emphasized by the fact that she ascended from being a mere one shot character and appeared in future titles like Mario Kart Wii and Super Mario 3D World. I presume her status as a notable dark horse got the attention of the development team and they decided to highlight it, while at the same time having the excuse to create a new form of playstyle.

 

[Kenith]

Midna I don't see the inherent uniqueness of, honestly. Could you explain it to me?

And I missed Ghirahim. I'll add him to C or D tier.

(I don't detest them, for the record. I'd actually be happy to see Ghirahim, in fact. I just don't think he'll be appearing due to his one-off status.)

Really? the fact that she uses shadow magic, came become one with shadows, create force fields, has a unique shape and appearance, attacks with her hair that turns into a hand, and has multiple forms does not strike you as unique?

And Ghirahim is a character I think could appear again. After all, there's only been one game since Skyward Sword, and that game was a homage to A Link to the Past, and even then its main villain was a Ghirahim lookalike.

 

[Pacack]

But you're ignoring popularity if you just look at it from that perspective. You're right that importance to a franchise alone doesn't get a character in, but Rosalina's and Toad's situations are different than Chrom and Robin's.
Chrom wouldn't get in just because he's important to Awakening. He's popular, which may or may not correlate with the fact that he's the main cover character of (IE is important to) Awakening. People want to play as Chrom. And those people are in larger numbers and are more vocal than those that want/wanted Toad. It makes Chrom stand out more when picking out characters. Where as Toad doesn't really have that factor. Which is why he was probably glossed over. Characters need to make people want to play the game after all. And sometimes uniqueness just isn't enough to give an entire roster that factor. You need the character that many people want to play as before seeing the character in action. Like Mega Man or Little Mac.

tl;dr: Don't compare Toads to husks of Corn. They're different situations the require different analyses.

I think it's more comparable than you think, but I understand where you're coming from. I honestly don't think many people will be terribly sad to see Robin and not Chrom.

 

[Groose]

With regards to all of the Rosalina discussion, I'd like to raise an interesting question. What came first--the chicken or the egg? What I mean is did the developers come up with the idea of a "remote control"character and then choose Rosalina as the best candidate for it, or did they look at her for awhile and try to find a way to make her unique? Personally, I'd lean more towards the former.

 

[Bowserlick]

Gorons are a staple of the Zelda series and could offer a heavyweight. If there is indeed a playable Goron in the new Zelda, maybe Sakurai would include one.

 

[Substitution]

With regards to all of the Rosalina discussion, I'd like to raise an interesting question. What came first--the chicken or the egg? What I mean is did the developers come up with the idea of a "remote control"character and then choose Rosalina as the best candidate for it, or did they look at her for awhile and try to find a way to make her unique? Personally, I'd lean more towards the former.

I'd probably say the latter.

This is Sakurai we're referring to. There's no telling what's in the man's head.

 

[FlareHabanero]

With regards to all of the Rosalina discussion, I'd like to raise an interesting question. What came first--the chicken or the egg? What I mean is did the developers come up with the idea of a "remote control"character and then choose Rosalina as the best candidate for it, or did they look at her for awhile and try to find a way to make her unique? Personally, I'd lean more towards the former.

Who the hell knows? We probably won't have a clear cut answer until we get near the release of the next games and we get varies details from interviews.

 

[Pacack]

Really? the fact that she uses shadow magic, came become one with shadows, create force fields, has a unique shape and appearance, attacks with her hair that turns into a hand, and has multiple forms does not strike you as unique?

And Ghirahim is a character I think could appear again. After all, there's only been one game since Skyward Sword, and that game was a homage to A Link to the Past, and even then its main villain was a Ghirahim lookalike.

True. I've yet to play Twilight Princess, so I wasn't actually aware of her abilities. I'll probably add her to D tier. While her abilities help, I just don't think they are enough to overtake her one-shot status.

While I fully admit that I may be wrong, I don't agree. But if he does appear in a later game, he'll shoot up in chance significantly.

With regards to all of the Rosalina discussion, I'd like to raise an interesting question. What came first--the chicken or the egg? What I mean is did the developers come up with the idea of a "remote control"character and then choose Rosalina as the best candidate for it, or did they look at her for awhile and try to find a way to make her unique? Personally, I'd lean more towards the former.

Almost definitely former.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

How could you think we're not getting anything that was in Awakening?

Well, technically we already got something from Awakening.

How do you know for certain we are? Ike's games sold like garbage but he still got in. Sales are pretty much meaningless.

[insert every other character confirmed that's not Toon Link as well]

Still doesn't change the fact that Sakurai doesn't have a problem with clones existing. Roy potentially being a clone isn't as much of an issue as you're making it out to be.

Funny how he was so low priority in Brawl's time that he got cut, isn't it?

Welp, guess Mewtwo's not coming back. Sorry guys, but he was so low priority in Brawl that he got cut! That means 100% he can't come back.

It's also funny how 4/5 of the Melee to Brawl characters were clones...
It's almost like, they didn't deserve a spot in the first place, and adding nothing to the game... OH WAIT, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!

So why didn't Roy deserve a spot in the first place exactly?

Well, like you mentioned, Toon Link came back and stayed a clone. So far, we've seen nothing of the sort. No reason to expect that.

Except for, y'know, those clones who got new moves and animations in Brawl to help differentiate themselves from the characters that they're based on. No reason Sakurai couldn't do the same if he wanted to.

Really though, how would you make him unique?

Put more emphasis on the Binding Blade's unique abilities. Give him a projectile, a healing move, more moves that do stuff with fire, etc. Emphasize his glass cannon nature.

Of course, these are just basic suggestions. There are plenty of people who have done more and come up with whole movesets for a "de-cloned" Roy.

Yet they have no support. Which is different from getting few support.

I'm pretty sure getting few support is less notable than a lot of support(which is what Roy has, whether you like him or not)

Tiki has more story relevance and playable recurrence.

Camus has playable recurrence too. He was playable in gaiden, FE3, FE12, and BSFE. Plus, he's the closest thing The Pegasus Sisters have playable recurrence, as all three of them are playable in every FE Akaneia game (minus BSFE, though Cartia and Est are in that one).

Anna is in every game in multiple roles (except Gaiden).

Yeah, incredibly minor, non-plot important roles. Even her "big debut" as a playable character isn't that important.

They just don't compare or compete with Anna and Tiki.

Except they kinda do. Just because you say something doesn't make it so.

(PLEASE don not misconstrue this as me advocating support for Camus or the Pegasus Sisters. My point is that the things that andimidna points to for what make Anna/Tiki more likely than any other FE non-Lord are not unique to them and don't justify their placement on his likelihood 'tier list.')

Name a character that's more unique and gimmicky

How about Ridley? Big flying purple fire-breathing space dragon. That's pretty unique. What about Tingle? He's got some nifty abilities that could make him unique.

Unless you meant FE characters. In that case, a mage character would be pretty unique. Perhaps Robin or Micaiah if we stick to Lords, or maybe Gharnef if we look to villains. Leif could sure be unique, what with his canon ability to use every type of FE weapon besides Dark Magic. Hell, Camus could be unique. It'd be nice to have a dedicated spear-wielder from FE in Smash, plus the Gradivus has healing abilities that he could take advantage of in his moveset.

Makes them more viable.
Megaman, Villager, Rosaluma, Little Mac.

Doesn't change the fact that they(Anna+Tiki) aren't really that notable within their own series.

Like?

How about the polls done by Shortie that I mentioned? He's done more than one of those y'know.

Anyways, if Sakurai uses Smash speculation website polls to newcomers I'll be in complete shock.

If Sakurai uses that Facebook poll(which is what I assume you're referring to, because Anna didn't exactly tear up the Japanese poll, nor did Tiki really) or anything anyone says on Miivese to pick newcomers I'll be shocked too.

Yep, Chrom's back on top.

Barely. In the most recent tally he only beats Roy by about 20 votes. Not to mention Roy still outclasses every other FE character on that poll.

Chrom's always been the most speculated (not before Awakening though of course) and is far more requested than any FE character on Miiverse.

I find it curious you mention this. What metric are you using to gauge this?

But Shortie forgot to add Tiki until March, so whatever her score is (and I have no idea what it is) can't really be compared to anybody but Rundas, who I believe was added late onto the poll on the same day.
I think Anna is doing OK.

Anna didn't even get enough votes in the last poll to make it out of the "everybody else" category.

Why would you even want a clone that's a lord from over a decade ago? Did you like to play as him? You can just play as Marth, y'know.

"Why would anyone want to play as Falco? You can just play as Fox, y'know."
"Why would anyone want to play as Toon Link? You can just play as Link, y'know."
"Why would anyone want to play as Ganondorf? You can just play as Cap. Falcon, y'know."

To answer: because we like his gimmick(the Fire Sword), and recognize that has potential to be fleshed out into being more than just another clone.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also I'll say it again, but you can't seriously play Roy like Marth and vise versa by the properties of the sword hitboxes alone.

In fact, I can say that for any clone.

Hell, you can't even play Dr. Mario like Mario, because again the different properties with moves.