Character Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I've seen the legendary thing disproved on this forum somewhere... what the quote really meant was a "special circumstance," and that alone.

Sakurai, as is usually the case in interviews, only states what is common sense. You should not expect random unknown third-party characters. Everyone who has had million-seller games and is an important part of Nintendo history is possible. That is what he probably, most accurately was trying to convey by "special circumstance."

 

[False Sense]

Once again, "very special situation" could mean other things, not just legendary.

So, is Layton a "very special situation?" I guess that's the big question here, isn't it?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't think Layton would get in over Snake or Pac-Man really. That's the problem I see with him.

Pac-Man and Snake are huge compared to him. Sure, Layton has the Nintendo connection, but he's got stiff competition.

 

[Starcutter]

So, is Layton a "very special situation?"

I'd say so, since Layton is handled in NA (and Europe..?) by Nintendo.

I don't think Layton would get in over Snake or Pac-Man really. That's the problem I see with him.

Pac-Man and Snake are huge compared to him. Sure, Layton has the Nintendo connection, but he's got stiff competition.

why does this so-called "competition" exist? it's not like the owners are at each other's necks about which characters will get in.

 

[Deleted member]

The one thing Layton does have in his favour is a Kojima-like friendship between Sakurai and Layton's creator. That and the fact his games have been far more successful on DS and 3DS than either Snake or Pac-Man.

 

[Pacack]

Honestly, if we're talking Nintendo All Stars, then Layton's more important by a long shot. But, if we're assuming the same circumstances as in Brawl, that probably won't give him the edge.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Unless he allows 5 3rd parties, which isn't impossible at all.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

His problem is that he probably isn't considered "legendary", as opposed to the other 4.

I agree. But what I feel would get Layton in is his strong ties to Nintendo. As I said, the other 3rd Parties got into Smash because they are famous and legendary characters (and Snake because of Sakueai and Kojima are BFFs). Their popularity overlooked the fact that they are not Nintendo characters, and have been on many other video game consoles since their debut.
Layton would almost be the other way around.
His "Nintendo-iness" would make up for the fact that he is not a huge gaming icon. Similar to how Captain Olimar and Wii Fit Trainer aren't legendary video game icons, Layton would get in Smash for the fact that he is from a small yet successful "Nintendo" series, and is pretty popular for a Nintendo character.

EDIT: Basically, this

Once again, "very special situation" could mean other things, not just legendary.

 

[samoxnar]

Layton is one of my favorite characters in video gaming history, so it's hard for me to discuss him legitimately. I believe Snake will return, as there is no reason to remove him, I also believe there will be a fourth third party character that will fit the position Snake did in Brawl; as Mega Man represents what Sonic did in brawl. Not only does Pac Man not do this, he's also is a very bland choice. Layton could work as he fits this role and is more interesting, but several other characters could fill this spot as swell. Or we just have three third parties which is also fine.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd say so, since Layton is handled in NA (and Europe..?) by Nintendo.



why does this so-called "competition" exist? it's not like the owners are at each other's necks about which characters will get in.

It's just that Snake is a veteran and at this point we don't know what will be happening, and Pac-Man is Namco, and we don't know what's going on with that. Both are bigger video game characters than Layton.

Honestly, if we're talking Nintendo All Stars, then Layton's more important by a long shot. But, if we're assuming the same circumstances as in Brawl, that probably won't give him the edge.

Again, something we don't know. E3 may be telling.

Unless he allows 5 3rd parties, which isn't impossible at all.

I certainly would not expect 5 third parties. That's A LOT of 3rd parties for a roster of 50 +/- 3.

I agree. But what I feel would get Layton in is his strong ties to Nintendo. As I said, the other 3rd Parties got into Smash because they are famous and legendary characters (and Snake because of Sakueai and Kojima are BFFs). Their popularity overlooked the fact that they are not Nintendo characters, and have been on many other video game consoles since their debut.
Layton would almost be the other way around.
His "Nintendo-iness" would make up for the fact that he is not a huge gaming icon. Similar to how Captain Olimar and Wii Fit Trainer aren't legendary video game icons, Layton would get in Smash for the fact that he is from a small yet successful "Nintendo" series, and is pretty popular for a Nintendo character.

EDIT: Basically, this

Oh definitely. I see where you're coming from, but we're just going to have to wait awhile to see what happens.

 

[False Sense]

I agree. But what I feel would get Layton in is his strong ties to Nintendo. As I said, the other 3rd Parties got into Smash because they are famous and legendary characters (and Snake because of Sakueai and Kojima are BFFs). Their popularity overlooked the fact that they are not Nintendo characters, and have been on many other video game consoles since their debut.
Layton would almost be the other way around.
His "Nintendo-iness" would make up for the fact that he is not a huge gaming icon. Similar to how Captain Olimar and Wii Fit Trainer aren't legendary video game icons, Layton would get in Smash for the fact that he is from a small yet successful "Nintendo" series, and is pretty popular for a Nintendo character.

EDIT: Basically, this

Personally, this seems a little backwards to me. I mean, if you're going to go through the trouble of acquiring a third party character for the game, why not make it something that's a really big deal? A gaming icon? The reasoning you give for Layton would make very logical sense if he was a Nintendo character. However, he isn't. There would be a lot more technicalities to go through just to get that one character in the game, just like any other third party character. Why use all that time and effort on a character who, to the general public, appears to be "just another Nintendo character?"

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Unless he allows 5 3rd parties, which isn't impossible at all.

It's not impossible, but it is incredibly unlikely, UNLESS the 5th 3rd Party is Layton (or somewhere with a similar status as him, which I don't see). If we got Sonic, Snake, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Professor Layton, I think the prior 4 would be the main 3rd Parties who are off to the side of the roster, while Layton is in the middle and treated as a Nintendo character. He wouldn't really contribute to the "Hey! They're too many 3rd Parties!" feeling, and people would kinda glance over him when looking at representation and what not.

 

[BluePikmin11]

His uniqueness maybe? to represent a third-party whom had a success that had a movie and crossover within the span of 7 years. I think that's something to behold.

 

[Kewkky]

Pac-Man could have the cheese wheel form during his Final Smash.

Let's also not forget that Pac-Man can make his limbs appear and disappear at will... see 0:40...

...so Pac-Man could use his limbs to punch and kick... and turn into a ball to do some arcade-based specials like eating dots and ghosts...

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

 

[Substitution]

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

Money is a powerful thing.
Never underestimate it.

 

[Pacack]

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

His uniqueness maybe? to represent a third-party whom had a success that had a movie and crossover within the span of 7 years. I think that's something to behold.

Maybe, but not at the expense of the other characters.

Listen, I'm not against Layton, but I simply don't see him in over Pac or Snake. Mainly because I want my Snake back (you make that dirty and I will slap your ****) and Pac-Man just seems like a no brainer if Namco is to get someone. But that hasn't been determined yet.

 

[Substitution]

...

You did?
Well then we're sorry. We didn't know.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

Sony Computer Entertainment.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Personally, this seems a little backwards to me. I mean, if you're going to go through the trouble of acquiring a third party character for the game, why not make it something that's a really big deal?

I don't really think Sakurai cares about how much trouble something takes, as long as he makes the game how he thinks it should be.
Plus, I really don't think Level-5 will make Sakurai go through a lot to get Layton in. Considering L5's willingness to work with Nintendo in the past, I'm sure they'd be perfectly fine with them putting Layton in Smash.

A gaming icon? The reasoning you give for Layton would make very logical sense if he was a Nintendo character. However, he isn't. There would be a lot more technicalities to go through just to get that one character in the game, just like any other third party character.

As I said, there most likely wouldn't be a ton of effort to go through to get the rights.
And as I also said, Layton has ties to Nintendo, and is a Nintendo character spiritually. Therefore, he doesn't need the popularity that 3rd Parties, who aren't fully Nintendo at heart, need to get in.

Why use all that time and effort on a character who, to the general public, appears to be "just another Nintendo character?"

Because Smash is supposed to be filled with Nintendo characters. Smash Bros. was created to have many Nintendo All-Stars together in one game, and even if he is owned by another company, Professor Layton is very much a Nintendo All-Star.

 

[Substitution]

Because Smash is supposed to be filled with Nintendo characters. Smash Bros. was created to have many Nintendo All-Stars together in one game, and even if he is owned by another company, Professor Layton is very much a Nintendo All-Star.

All-Star? Sure.
But I wouldn't say "Nintendo All-Star".

Sure, he's popular. But he isn't the first one to come to my mind when I think of Nintendo.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

I don't know. Why did YOU reply to a message that is 300 pages old?

All-Star? Sure.
But I wouldn't say "Nintendo All-Star".

Sure, he's popular. But he isn't the first one to come to my mind when I think of Nintendo.

But Nintendo is the first one to come to mind when thinking of him.

 

[Substitution]

I don't know. Why did YOU reply to a message that is 300 pages old?

Maybe he really like nostalgia.
You don't know that.

 

[Freduardo]

All-Star? Sure.
But I wouldn't say "Nintendo All-Star".

Sure, he's popular. But he isn't the first one to come to my mind when I think of Nintendo.

Layton may not be a Nintendo All Star because he is not the first one to pop into your mind when you think of Nintendo All Stars.

But he may be a Nintendo All Star because when I think of him as an all star, I only think of him on Nintendo.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Maybe he really like nostalgia.
You don't know that.

It's only from a month or so ago.
That would be like calling Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze a "Classic DK Country game."

 

[Shorts]

My roster, wrote out all my reasoning but my computer froze. So, I think theres a decent chance that Robin and Chrom could be switched ith one another, as well as Kalos for Kanto. Takamaru and Shulk are other characters I could see being included, if the roster was larger.

 

[Kewkky]

I don't know. Why did YOU reply to a message that is 300 pages old?

Because I was catching up then saw it, and felt disgusted enough to say something about it. I mean, this is a forum, not a real-life discussion. That good enough?

 

[Substitution]

Layton may not be a Nintendo All Star because he is not the first one to pop into your mind when you think of Nintendo All Stars.

But he may be a Nintendo All Star because when I think of him as an all star, I only think of him on Nintendo.

Let me put it this way.

With someone like Mario, he is Nintendo.
There's no other mix. You can't think of Mario without Nintendo.

With Layton, it's different.
It's not like he's an essential part of Nintendo.
He could go on without being one of their consoles.

It's only from a month or so ago.
That would be like calling Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze a "Classic DK Country game."

Nostalgia can be weird like that...

 

[Shorts]

Why does Pacman still even exist? I hated every second of that video, ugh... Who's the game designer that keeps suggesting lame golf games?

He's balls, we all know that. Just pray he isn't top tier

 

[False Sense]

I don't really think Sakurai cares about how much trouble something takes, as long as he makes the game how he thinks it should be.
Plus, I really don't think Level-5 will make Sakurai go through a lot to get Layton in. Considering L5's willingness to work with Nintendo in the past, I'm sure they'd be perfectly fine with them putting Layton in Smash.


As I said, there most likely wouldn't be a ton of effort to go through to get the rights.
And as I also said, Layton has ties to Nintendo, and is a Nintendo character spiritually. Therefore, he doesn't need the popularity that 3rd Parties, who aren't fully Nintendo at heart, need to get in.


Because Smash is supposed to be filled with Nintendo characters. Smash Bros. was created to have many Nintendo All-Stars together in one game, and even if he is owned by another company, Professor Layton is very much a Nintendo All-Star.

I can't say that I know what the exact technicalities of getting third party characters into Smash are (nor do I think anyone else here does), so I can't really argue with that.

As for that last part... Professor Layton is not owned by Nintendo, and therefore, even if he is almost exclusively on their systems, he is not a true Nintendo All-Star. Because he's not Nintendo.
However, this bit seems highly debatable and up to individual interpretation, so...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

My roster, wrote out all my reasoning but my computer froze. So, I think theres a decent chance that Robin and Chrom could be switched ith one another, as well as Kalos for Kanto. Takamaru and Shulk are other characters I could see being included, if the roster was larger.

Seems pretty solid to me, just a few minor things.
I have to give you props having Tingle (and a Zelda newcomer overall).
The only changes I'd make is putting Snake back in (there is no reason at all for him to be cut), and adding one or two more newcomers to bring it up to 49 or 50. Personally, I'd have Takamaru and the Shulk.

EDIT: Also, no Kalos Trainer. The whole purpose of Trainer in Brawl was to showcase the actual character you play as, and to show the original starters, which are some of the most popular Pokémon even today.
If Sakurai wanted to make it a recency thing, he would have added Sinnoh Trainer in Brawl.


EDIT 2:

Let me put it this way.

With someone like Mario, he is Nintendo.
There's no other mix. You can't think of Mario without Nintendo.

With Layton, it's different.
It's not like he's an essential part of Nintendo.
He could go on without being one of their consoles.

But he DOESN'T go on with other consoles. He sticks with Nintendo all the way! That's why I think he is a Nintendo character at heart.

I can't say that I know what the exact technicalities of getting third party characters into Smash are (nor do I think anyone else here does), so I can't really argue with that.

As for that last part... Professor Layton is not owned by Nintendo, and therefore, even if he is almost exclusively on their systems, he is not a true Nintendo All-Star. Because he's not Nintendo.
However, this bit seems highly debatable and up to individual interpretation, so...

I know Layton isn't owned by Nintendo, since that's the basis of this whole discussion.
Just because he isn't on paper owned by Nintendo, he is still an all-star who is associated with no other big company than Nintendo. Therefore, a Nintendo All-Star.

 

[Starcutter]

I really do have to wonder why layton is brought up so much lately.


It's not a bad thing though. Rather this than FE.

 

[Substitution]

I really do have to wonder why layton is brought up so much lately.


It's not a bad thing though. Rather this than FE.

Well, if it's FE you want...

 

[False Sense]

Well, if it's FE you want...

Robin for SSB4.

 

[Substitution]

Robin for SSB4.

Please.
If we're getting a Fire Emblem rep. We need one that truly represents what the genre is about!
Who you ask? Well...

HawkeyeMcbowman4Smash!

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I really do have to wonder why layton is brought up so much lately.

I don't know. Maybe it's all signs that Layton will be revealed in the direct!

It's really weird. Lately I've been having weird occurrences were I'll be thinking of something, and then something happens that is related to what I was thinking of, but isn't directly the scenario that was in my head.
For example, I'll be thinking about Zelda U, and then Sonic Lost World Zelda DLC gets announced a few hours later.
Or I'll be thinking of thinking of something, and then people walk by talking about what I was just thinking about.

It's terrifying. I'm just going to try my best not to think about Dragon Ball...

 

[Shorts]

I know Layton isn't owned by Nintendo, since that's the basis of this whole discussion.
Just because he isn't on paper owned by Nintendo, he is still an all-star who is associated with no other big company than Nintendo. Therefore, a Nintendo All-Star.

Snake isnt on my roster because I don't believe he will be included. I actually wrote out my reasoning for Tingle. It mostly has to do with Toon Zelda being a clone, and how Sakurai seems to see Mario and Zelda on the same level. He was once quoted saying that he tries not to crowd the roster with a bunch of Mario and Zelda characters. Since we got Rosalina, I really see a fifth Zelda character as a definite choice. And I'll put Kalos Trainer to rest when we have Kanto Trainer confirmed. i just have a feeling about Kalos trainer. I could go on and say how I believe Kalos is not just a new Pokemon generation, and how it means more to the franchise than Sinnoh did, but I won't. We usually have two Pokemon newcomers anyways. I say Kalos Trainer.

 

[Starcutter]

I don't know. Maybe it's all signs that Layton will be revealed in the direct!

It's really weird. Lately I've been having weird occurrences were I'll be thinking of something, and then something happens that is related to what I was thinking of, but isn't directly the scenario that was in my head.
For example, I'll be thinking about Zelda U, and then Sonic Lost World Zelda DLC gets announced a few hours later.
Or I'll be thinking of thinking of something, and then people walk by talking about what I was just thinking about.

It's terrifying. I'm just going to try my best not to think about Dragon Ball...

Don't worry, it's a stage in life where things seem to revolve around you. Should only last a couple months.


If it lasts any longer it's bad for your health.

 

[False Sense]

I don't know. Maybe it's all signs that Layton will be revealed in the direct!

It's really weird. Lately I've been having weird occurrences were I'll be thinking of something, and then something happens that is related to what I was thinking of, but isn't directly the scenario that was in my head.
For example, I'll be thinking about Zelda U, and then Sonic Lost World Zelda DLC gets announced a few hours later.
Or I'll be thinking of thinking of something, and then people walk by talking about what I was just thinking about.

It's terrifying. I'm just going to try my best not to think about Dragon Ball...

Oh, that happens to you as well? And here I thought I was all alone.

 

[Starcutter]

Oh, that happens to you as well? And here I thought I was all alone.

It used to happen to me all the time. Like "wonder if this will happen" and then it did. I was all like woah I'm psychic!

Was a while ago though. I grew out of it.