Character Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

I understand your point of view, but adding an obscure character will lead to the popularization of its serie. For example, you're talking about Porky from the Mother serie. It's because Smash Bros added Ness and Lucas that you know/want this character. If Sakurai includes a new obscure character, other characters from its serie will be wanted. Just to understand, how did you take Pit's inclusion back then ? Are you a supporter of Palutena now ?

I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective. I didn't necessarily enjoy Pit in Brawl; however, I wasn't allowed to express this discontent as my sister was a huge fan. So I repressed my ill-conceived hatred, it was for her benefit, you see? In any event, I am obviously a Palutena supporter as I also support the Lord of the Underworld, Hades. Obviously it is rational to assert that Palutena is the more prominent and deserving character. Again, I do conform to your standard assessment, the inherent reason I support Palutena is based on the notion that I completely and utterly enjoyed Kid Icarus Uprising. The same is true about Porky. However, as I stated, Smash 4 isn't going to be subject to character saturation. As such, I prefer the more important and iconic series to include more characters, it lends to the cohesive nature of the roster in my opinion. I don't want Smash to consist of a dozen series with only one character. The game entails that Nintendo all-stars battle to the glorious death! In that event, an obscure character doesn't fit my arbitrary criteria. This may be our last Smash, I want recognizable characters in the roster. I was insinuating that obscure characters can still be in the game, they should just be from one of the franchises already represented (in my opinion).

 

[Sobreviviente]

I'd rather have a more specific character...

Sandbag

 

[Knight Dude]

So I have a question for you all, which newcomers do you think are essential for a roster?

Specific characters? None. No one is really needed, but I can think of a bunch that I would really like to see. How about character archetypes? Quite a few tend to be added every fighting game.

Normally, fighting games tend to introduce many characters that fit into these archetypes. Keep-Away, Grapplers, Rush-Down, Glass Cannons, Heavy Hitters and the like tend be in most fighters.

 

[shrooby]

Opinions guys. Respect 'em.

Everyone has a different view of what characters are essential. I believe a new Pikmin character is essential, but I'm willing to bet 90% of the Smash fanbase disagrees.

I feel the same about Yoshi

But why do franchises earn characters? Shouldn't the characters themselves earn their place on the roster?
I mean, I can certainly understand such a viewpoint, I just don't agree. As a Ridley supporter that's somewhat ironic for me to say since that's one of the bigger things people say to garner support for him, but that's not why I support him.
I guess just the thing I have with such a line of thought is that it doesn't really support a character per se, but rather a group of characters. It doesn't really dive into a specific character's merits, but rather a franchise's merits, which I personally don't see as a way to look at the roster in terms of which characters to support. To put more crudely, people seem to sometimes care more about the logo a character will get rather than the character themselves.
I'm not saying that either of you are *insert generic internet insult here* for thinking in such a way.
But I think you should try taking into account a character's merits more than a franchise's merits. Just my two-cents! You're free to disagree.

 

[Kenith]

But why do franchises earn characters? Shouldn't the characters themselves earn their place on the roster?
I mean, I can certainly understand such a viewpoint, I just don't agree. As a Ridley supporter that's somewhat ironic for me to say since that's one of the bigger things people say to garner support for him, but that's not why I support him.
I guess just the thing I have with such a line of thought is that it doesn't really support a character per se, but rather a group of characters. It doesn't really dive into a specific character's merits, but rather a franchise's merits, which I personally don't see as a way to look at the roster in terms of which characters to support. To put more crudely, people seem to sometimes care more about the logo a character will get rather than the character themselves.
I'm not saying that either of you are *insert generic internet insult here* for thinking in such a way.
But I think you should try taking into account a character's merits more than a franchise's merits. Just my two-cents! You're free to disagree.

What a wise person.

 

[Knight Dude]

I haven't played the game, and I've only seen one episode of the show.
It's something with the actual design, even though they seem identical.

His new soul-less eyes of chaos. That's why you hate Pac-Man's new design. They should've kept the black eyes, it fits better.

 

[JamesDNaux]

I am suprised, really suprised... I wasn't on popular forums before Smash 4 (I wasn't speaking proper english), and in the french forums that I was frequenting, no one knew Pit. To think that Sakurai included him because he was wanted... I'm suprised...


This is the type of character that I am talking ! By the way, he looks really interesting^^

Both Takamaru and Lip are obscure, the only reason they don't seem obscure is because everyone here has already gone through every option available, we've searched through the history of Nintendo to find what characters could possibly work and who wouldn't, the only reasons that Lip and Takamaru stand out in particular are:

Takamaru recently had a game in Nintendo Land, which really seems like an odd choice especially considering the original Nazo no Murasame Jo was a game only released in Japan, while Nintendo Land was obviously international.

Takamaru also made guest appearances in Captain Rainbow and Samurai Warriors 3, and his game made other cameos in games like Pikmin 2, WarioWare, and even a song in Brawl.

Takamaru is also in a similar situation as Pit, Kid Icarus was made using the Metroid engine while Murasame was made using the Zelda engine, all four games were also released in the same year, making them sister games of sorts.

Lip is also from a (slightly) Japan only game, which was changed completely other than the gameplay when ported over (it's even been changed to Yoshi and Pokemon games). Sakurai himself called the original Panel de Pon "a true masterpiece."

Sakurai has also hidden many references to Lip within Smash, as one of Kirby's stones is the garbage block from Panel de Pon, Lip's Stick as an item is also from Panel de Pon and is Lip's personal weapon, she even got her own theme remixed in Brawl.

The Puzzle League games are also made by Intelligence Systems, the same people who make Fire Emblem, it wouldn't be a stretch for Sakurai to ask them about Lip when he goes to see them about FE characters.

They're still pretty obscure as they're both Japan only characters who haven't had games in a long while, Panel de Pon being changed to the generic Puzzle League so they wouldn't have to go through the trouble of changing it whenever they ported it over, and Nazo no Murasame Jo being a retro game that hasn't had a proper sequel yet.

 

[Knight Dude]

Wasn't Lip also in that Captain Rainbow game? Eh, not that it matters. But I find it interesting that you have a bunch of obscure characters from Nintendo's history hanging out on some island. But at least Little Mac had a decent comeback.

 

[M23-X0]

I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective. I didn't necessarily enjoy Pit in Brawl; however, I wasn't allowed to express this discontent as my sister was a huge fan. So I repressed my ill-conceived hatred, it was for her benefit, you see? In any event, I am obviously a Palutena supporter as I also support the Lord of the Underworld, Hades. Obviously it is rational to assert that Palutena is the more prominent and deserving character. Again, I do conform to your standard assessment, the inherent reason I support Palutena is based on the notion that I completely and utterly enjoyed Kid Icarus Uprising. The same is true about Porky. However, as I stated, Smash 4 isn't going to be subject to character saturation. As such, I prefer the more important and iconic series to include more characters, it lends to the cohesive nature of the roster in my opinion. I don't want Smash to consist of a dozen series with only one character. The game entails that Nintendo all-stars battle to the glorious death! In that event, an obscure character doesn't fit my arbitrary criteria. This may be our last Smash, I want recognizable characters in the roster. I was insinuating that obscure characters can still be in the game, they should just be from one of the franchises already represented (in my opinion).

I completely understand your opinion, and it's normal to please fans with including popular characters. Actually, I am thinking the same as you in an extent : Smash Bros should include the maxumum of wanted characters, but it should also keep 4-5 slots for new series, retros and obscure. For example, for Smash bros 4, I would like Isaac, Shulk for the new series, and Hakkun for the obscure retro. With the villager and WFT, that makes 5 series, and it lets 7-8 characters for current franchises.

But, contrariwise, I prefer having a dozen characters representing one series, than 5 franchises consisting of 6-7 characters. I want the roster to be the most varied as possible.

 

[shrooby]

What a wise person.

Why thank you!
Course, I can't be that wise since I'm on Smashboards when I should be doing schoolwork.

 

[N3ON]

Oh look, it's Golden.

Are you going to pull the hypocrite card and say I'm a complete twit for seeing nothing special about Chrom?

Don't instigate things. There is no need for such hostility over character opinions.

 

[Kenith]

Don't instigate things. There is no need for such hostility over character opinions.

Oh, that was long, long ago, I'm afraid, and I've already told him why that wasn't nice.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Say, didn't Sakurai say if Takamaru got a new game, he would consider him?
If he did get a new game, he would no longer be classifed as retro, would this make Little Mac a retro still?

 

[N3ON]

Oh, that was long, long ago, I'm afraid, and I've already told him why that wasn't nice.

With all due respect, it's still best the mods tell him as well, if they haven't already.

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

But why do franchises earn characters? Shouldn't the characters themselves earn their place on the roster?
I mean, I can certainly understand such a viewpoint, I just don't agree. As a Ridley supporter that's somewhat ironic for me to say since that's one of the bigger things people say to garner support for him, but that's not why I support him.
I guess just the thing I have with such a line of thought is that it doesn't really support a character per se, but rather a group of characters. It doesn't really dive into a specific character's merits, but rather a franchise's merits, which I personally don't see as a way to look at the roster in terms of which characters to support. To put more crudely, people seem to sometimes care more about the logo a character will get rather than the character themselves.
I'm not saying that either of you are *insert generic internet insult here* for thinking in such a way.
But I think you should try taking into account a character's merits more than a franchise's merits. Just my two-cents! You're free to disagree.

Oh no, I don't think of it like that at all. When I say I think Pikmin needs a new character, I'm referring to the characters that I want for Smash Bros(Louie and Plasm Wraith) rather than the series as a whole. Of course I'd be happy with any new Pikmin character, but I only support Louie and Plasm Wraith. I think both of those characters deserve to be in Smash Bros. A character shouldn't get in because of its franchise, but because of what it has accomplished within it, like you said. There's no point in adding something like a Sheargrub, because it's not important to Pikmin at all. Basically I agree with everything you just said.

 

[Kenith]

With all due respect, it's still best the mods tell him as well, if they haven't already.

I know. Just trying to give you less work to deal with. Of course, it bothered me on a personal level, so it's not like I wasn't going to say anything.

Say, didn't Sakurai say if Takamaru got a new game, he would consider him?
If he did get a new game, he would no longer be classifed as retro, would this make Little Mac a retro still?

When did he say that? Cause the Nintendo Land mini-game counts as a "game" in my book...

 

[Morbi]

But why do franchises earn characters? Shouldn't the characters themselves earn their place on the roster?
I mean, I can certainly understand such a viewpoint, I just don't agree. As a Ridley supporter that's somewhat ironic for me to say since that's one of the bigger things people say to garner support for him, but that's not why I support him.
I guess just the thing I have with such a line of thought is that it doesn't really support a character per se, but rather a group of characters. It doesn't really dive into a specific character's merits, but rather a franchise's merits, which I personally don't see as a way to look at the roster in terms of which characters to support. To put more crudely, people seem to sometimes care more about the logo a character will get rather than the character themselves.
I'm not saying that either of you are *insert generic internet insult here* for thinking in such a way.
But I think you should try taking into account a character's merits more than a franchise's merits. Just my two-cents! You're free to disagree.

There is a very overt and distinct correlation between the franchise and the character. The franchise dictates what the character offers to an extent. I perceive them as the same element of inclusion to be perfectly honest.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't instigate things. There is no need for such hostility over character opinions.

I am not going to forgive someone that pretends they know more about me then myself.

 

[BluePikmin11]

When did he say that? Cause the Nintendo Land mini-game counts as a "game" in my book...

He said that in one of the Smash 64 Q+A in the official website.

 

[Kenith]

I am not going to forgive someone that pretends they know more about me then myself.

Dude, why?

Why thank you!
Course, I can't be that wise since I'm on Smashboards when I should be doing schoolwork.

I have no responsibilities! It's a weekend, where I do absolutely no work.
But yeah, everything you said is true, imo.

He said that in one of the Smash 64 Q+A in the official website.

...So he said it fifteen years ago?

 

[Morbi]

Say, didn't Sakurai say if Takamaru got a new game, he would consider him?
If he did get a new game, he would no longer be classifed as retro, would this make Little Mac a retro still?

That cannot be answered so simply, it directly depends on which classification you are alluding to and the reception of the game. If you mean "by definition," Takamaru would still be a retro character, the same as Little Mac. However, if you are referring to the colloquialism present on Smashboards... Takamaru would be no longer be considered a retro.

 

[N3ON]

I am not going to forgive someone that pretends they know more about me then myself.

Forgiveness isn't a prerequisite for civility.

Dude, why?

There is no need for you to delve deeper into matters which don't relate to the topic of the thread.

 

[Kenith]

That cannot be answered so simply, it directly depends on which classification you are alluding to and the reception of the game. If you mean "by definition," Takamaru would still be a retro character, the same as Little Mac. However, if you are referring to the colloquialism present on Smashboards... Takamaru would be no longer be considered a retro.

Little Mac is still retro?

 

[Frostwraith]

Little Mac is still retro?

He got a Wii game, so no. Same for Pit. Those two had games in the more recent generations. Retros are those that, aside from cameos and re-releases, haven't appeared in many years.

Ice Climbers are retro since their last game was released in the 80's. Same for Takamaru, since when was Nazo no Murasamejou released? Mr. Game & Watch counts as well, as there hasn't been a new Game & Watch release since 1989.

 

[shrooby]

There is a very overt and distinct correlation between the franchise and the character. The franchise dictates what the character offers to an extent. I perceive them as the same element of inclusion to be perfectly honest.

I agree.
Well, at least I agree with what I think you're saying. What I think you're saying applies heavily to Villager and Rosalina. The unexplored worlds of Animal Crossing and Mario Galaxy, respectively, are what provided inspiration for their abilities. In the sense that they could potentially offer something new because they represent something unexplored you could say that their respective franchises "deserved" representation because of how many unexplored ideas they could touch upon. These characters just so happen to be the the character to be given these ideas. Please correct me if I'm wrong with what you were trying to get across.
What I was more-so rambling towards was the line of thought that a character's weight means relatively little compared to the franchise's weight.
To give an example, Ridley is often pushed because "Metroid needs a second rep because it's a big franchise."
His potential abilities or possible other reasons for inclusion aren't really delved into. He only should be in because he is Metroid and Metroid deserves more than just Samus. Whether or not his abilities could potentially be based around unexplored aspects of Metroid isn't what people explicitly state as a reason to support the character.

 

[Kenith]

Ice Climbers are retro since their last game was released in the 80's. Same for Takamaru, since when was Nazo no Murasamejou released? Mr. Game & Watch counts as well, as there hasn't been a new Game & Watch release since 1989.

 

[Gune]

Is that new? or just a remake?

 

[Kenith]

Is that new? or just a remake?

Um...remake.

 

[Starcutter]

But why do franchises earn characters? Shouldn't the characters themselves earn their place on the roster?
I mean, I can certainly understand such a viewpoint, I just don't agree. As a Ridley supporter that's somewhat ironic for me to say since that's one of the bigger things people say to garner support for him, but that's not why I support him.
I guess just the thing I have with such a line of thought is that it doesn't really support a character per se, but rather a group of characters. It doesn't really dive into a specific character's merits, but rather a franchise's merits, which I personally don't see as a way to look at the roster in terms of which characters to support. To put more crudely, people seem to sometimes care more about the logo a character will get rather than the character themselves.
I'm not saying that either of you are *insert generic internet insult here* for thinking in such a way.
But I think you should try taking into account a character's merits more than a franchise's merits. Just my two-cents! You're free to disagree.

well, I want a yoshi rep AND kamek, so it works out anyways.

 

[Gune]

Um...remake.

Frost was talking about new GNW games not remakes...Game and wario probably counts for one though.

 

[Raetah]

I actually am beginning to doubt another Fire Emblem character. I have read some of your posts insinuating that you believe 50 characters to be the magic number, correct? I feel the same exact way. If Sakurai asserts that 39 (40 including Mewtwo, and for the sake of this discussion, I will allude to Mewtwo as if he is already in the game). Thus a 25% increase in the 4th installment of Smash is completely and utterly logical, that is a 10 newcomer increase counting the 4 we already have revealed. Again, this is also presuming that the roster is to retain no omissions. That leaves us with 6 characters and a dozen franchises that can be represented.

I believe everyone agrees that we will get an additional representative from Donkey Kong, Kid Icarus, and one of the Big 4 (Mario, Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Metroid). That only leaves us with 3 more characters, needless to say, despite many proclaiming that series like Star Fox, Kirby, Mother, F-Zero, WarioWare, Yoshi, "Wii," Animal Crossing, and 3rd party characters are "complete enough" or "finished." Sakurai might not feel the same way, it would be blatantly fallacious to disregard the feasibility of one more character from any given series already on the roster. Could that character be from Fire Emblem? Sure. Again, Fire Emblem isn't necessarily saturated with diverse characters that offer a lot in terms of variety.

We still have to account for a retro character, at least one is essentially guaranteed (so we have 4 slots that aren't Fire Emblem). After that, we have to account for new series representation such as Shulk or Isaac... maybe even another character that no one expects like Wonder Red (so we have 5 slots that aren't Fire Emblem, assuming we get a new series). Lastly, we go back to paragraph 2, there is only enough room for one character out of 9 categories, and I probably missed one or two (this is where Fire Emblem has a chance).

If Sakurai is focusing on roster variety, Fire Emblem isn't necessarily going to take priority over other characters unless they pick someone like Robin or a low priority clone that is easy to develop.

Again, he might go above 50 character, and this assessment doesn't even account for double representation. A real possibility if we get characters like K. Rool and Dixie or Toon Zelda.

Let me be honest, im fairly more confident about SSB4 including a new character of Fire Emblem Awakening, than Ridley or King K. Rool, Palutena, Mewtwo or even Little Mac. Really, dont know why exactly.
But it is a safe prediction.

 

[Frostwraith]

Frost was talking about new GNW games not remakes...Game and wario probably counts for one though.

From what I know about Game & Wario, it's more like a WarioWare game than a proper Game & Watch title... I don't think it counts.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The 'essential' character talk is fruitless because, by and large, people come to consider the characters who became playable 'essential,' whereas, if a character didn't become playable, they were never needed to begin with. Like, imagine one of the really popular Brawl characters didn't become playable...one of the Kirby newcomers, or Diddy, or Wario, or Wolf (Mewtwo is already a case of this). There would still be talk about how that character is expendable, and how Sakurai's judgment reflects this, when, in reality, Sakurai is just one guy who has preferences just like the rest of us, just with those preferences defining most Nintendo series for the next generation.

For me, personally, it's not really a question of "who is needed?" as far as newcomers go but rather a question of "who will be a great and wondeful addition to the roster?"

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Frost was talking about new GNW games not remakes...Game and wario probably counts for one though.

Game and Wario isn't really associated with the Game and Watch franchise.

It's a Wario Ware game though and through!

 

[Louie G.]

I know this is a little off topic, but aside from Fatmanonice and BKupa is there another new mod?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I know this is a little off topic, but aside from Fatmanonice and BKupa is there another new mod?

IsmaR was also modded recently.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Well, the attack of the mods is coming again, turning everyone into mods, there will only be a few survivors, if any at all.

 

[Louie G.]

Well, the attack of the mods is coming again, turning everyone into mods, there will only be a few survivors, if any at all.

I'll sacrifice myself, because I'm a good person like that.
Also because mod powers are really fun.

 

[N3ON]

I might remind you that the topic of the thread is not the new mods, good news as it is.

 

[Knight Dude]

Have we talked about new Wario characters in this thread yet? If not, I want to say it would be cool to have Captain Syrup as a playable character. However unlikely she may actually be. Other than her, I do think Young Cricket is cool too. He could be the "Bruce Lee homage" archetype you in many fighters. Though he's even less likely than Syrup probably. Though either could be made unique simply by following their themes. No one fights like a pirate yet, and we don't have a Martial Arts Master either.